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Death Wind v2.0
- Thread starter WhiteQueen
- Start date
I need to update this (perhaps on v3.0!).
I'm not a fan of long rates, so instead I'll try to give you short and helpful advices, if you are ok with that =)
First off: you really have to make Rotom a bulky wisper, because I don't see how you can beat opposing stall otherwise. Payback from Forretress and Surf from Starmie will 2hko, and TTar can easily pursuit you.
Of course that leaves you open to Lucario, so replace either Heatran or Jirachi to use a proper Lucario check. The standard Roar-Gyarados could help you cover DD-Mence and Lucario quite nicely. DD-Tar can be an issue when Skarm is at low health, I don't know if you insist on having Heatran in your team, but I would go with a scarfed-Jirachi and drop Heatran for a resttalking Gyarados.
Hopefully that will give you some ideas,
Have Fun laddering, Chii
First off: you really have to make Rotom a bulky wisper, because I don't see how you can beat opposing stall otherwise. Payback from Forretress and Surf from Starmie will 2hko, and TTar can easily pursuit you.
Of course that leaves you open to Lucario, so replace either Heatran or Jirachi to use a proper Lucario check. The standard Roar-Gyarados could help you cover DD-Mence and Lucario quite nicely. DD-Tar can be an issue when Skarm is at low health, I don't know if you insist on having Heatran in your team, but I would go with a scarfed-Jirachi and drop Heatran for a resttalking Gyarados.
Hopefully that will give you some ideas,
Have Fun laddering, Chii
You don't call this a stall team, but in a sense it kind of is, but this is a good team. From small nitpicks, I'd like you to try out Heal Bell over Safeguard on Uxie to provide an overall team support. Sometimes, Thunder Wave or Toxic can catch your Pokemon off guard, and Heal Bell can support the entire team. I think Lum Berry will suite this team well to prevent early Spore/Sleep Powder momentums from the opponent, allowing you to lay down the most important hazard on your team - Stealth Rock.
For Jirachi, I think ThunderPunch is probably better over U-turn to check Gyarados in the match. I always found Rotom to be an iffy check for the most part. Speaking of Rotom, I'd like to suggest a bulkier EV spread of 232 HP / 28 SpA / 252 Spe with Choice Scarf and same movesets. Rotom is such an integral part of this team and loosing it early to something like a predicted Crunch or Waterfall from Gyarados is just bad. The little extra HP evs ensure Rotom will come in on these threats more recklessly. 28 SpA is specifically for Latias, who is 2HKOed by Shadow Ball.
As for other options, for Latias, I'd really look for Bloo's spread for to help fend off Pursuit users (which is a big problem for this team, one member removed and this whole team will fall off). The EV spread is 192 HP | 64 Def | 252 Spe with the movesets Reflect / Dragon Pulse / Wish / Protect /. I think Latias will serve better as a defensive role for the team due to its resistances to check many specially inclined threats. Latias can only space in one move and Dragon Pulse is good enough. Reflect helps the entire team take hits from the physical side, and most importantly Pursuit users. overall gl.
For Jirachi, I think ThunderPunch is probably better over U-turn to check Gyarados in the match. I always found Rotom to be an iffy check for the most part. Speaking of Rotom, I'd like to suggest a bulkier EV spread of 232 HP / 28 SpA / 252 Spe with Choice Scarf and same movesets. Rotom is such an integral part of this team and loosing it early to something like a predicted Crunch or Waterfall from Gyarados is just bad. The little extra HP evs ensure Rotom will come in on these threats more recklessly. 28 SpA is specifically for Latias, who is 2HKOed by Shadow Ball.
As for other options, for Latias, I'd really look for Bloo's spread for to help fend off Pursuit users (which is a big problem for this team, one member removed and this whole team will fall off). The EV spread is 192 HP | 64 Def | 252 Spe with the movesets Reflect / Dragon Pulse / Wish / Protect /. I think Latias will serve better as a defensive role for the team due to its resistances to check many specially inclined threats. Latias can only space in one move and Dragon Pulse is good enough. Reflect helps the entire team take hits from the physical side, and most importantly Pursuit users. overall gl.
Yes, Rotom-W is there to block Rapid Spin, but his role is also to inflict as much damage as possible. That's why his Speed and Special Attack are both maxed out.
Stall teams really can't do anything to me. Almost all stall teams will lose to me. I'm not kidding. Take a closer look: 1) ALL of my pokemon are immune to Toxic Spikes and 2) FOUR of them are immune to Spikes!
Yes, Pursuit can be annoying, but after Rotom-W gets Pursuit'ed, I can just switch in Heatran or Skarmory to phaze shits away, which is extremely annoying once my entries are down.
Heatran is NEEDED. Without him, my team would get run over by Sub Charge Rotom-a and SubMind Jirachi. I can replace another Special Wall for Heatran, but I like his ability to scare the shit out of Scizor.
Lucario has never and will never be a problem for me. Why?
1) It can't OHKO a healthy Skarmory, so I will always be able to phaze it.
2) Jirachi will always prevail against it unless my Jirachi health is rather low. ExtremeSpeed doesn't do much damage to Jirachi.
3) Uxie can Yawn the hell out of Lucario, forcing it to switch the next turn since Uxie is pretty damn bulky and thus ExtremeSpeed wouldn't be able to kill it off. If it doesn't switch, then Latias can switch in and use Protect, putting Lucario to sleep.
4) Rotom-W.
In the event that Skarmory, Rotow-W, and Jirachi are all fainted prior to my facing Lucario. Then I deserve to lose that battle.
Heal Bell sounds good on Uxie; I will try it. Lum Berry guarantees that Uxie will always be able to lay down SR unless it's against faster leads with Taunt. I lead with a Lum Berry already. However, I do like Leftovers being able to recover a bit of health for Uxie. This grants me more chances to switch in Uxie to absorb hits or sacrifice after it has done its job, which is laying down SR. It's a big dilemma for me. I'll give it a shot later to see which one does better overall.
Gyarados is not a problem to me at all. Seriously. Uxie, Latias, Skamory, Rotom-W can all take a hit from it, even after it has a +1 DD. U-Turn is just a great move for a team like this.
Life Orb Surf from Latias does a ton of damage to both Tyranitar and Scizor. Protect really plays well against them. If they Pursuit, I'll Surf to take half or more off their HPs. If they use another move, I'll switch. Dragon Pulse with Life Orb does a hell of a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. With SR and a layer of Spikes or two down, I pretty much have the game won.
This is not a stall team. You're right, it's sorta is but it's really not. I like to call it "psuedo stall" with a hell of a lot of offense to go along!
Yeah, no...
Life Orb Surf vs. CB Tyranitar: 158 - 188 (41.36% - 49.21%)
CB Pursuit vs. Latias (not switching): 162 - 192 (50.63% - 60.00%)
Tyranitar can survive 2 Surfs even after Stealth Rock damage, and that's assuming you use Surf on the switch-in and not any other move. Plus Sandstorm is constantly weakening you even when you Protect. With Leftovers and more investment in HP and a few in Defense, you can always survive Pursuit and defeat CBTar through a combination of Wish+Surf.
It's important to keep Latias alive since it counters so many things and Wish is so important for any member who can't heal themselves.
Life Orb Surf vs. CB Tyranitar: 158 - 188 (41.36% - 49.21%) isn't too shabby at all, add in damages from SR and perhaps some Spikes, that's pretty painful. With Uxie's Yawn forcing a switch, I get to U-Turn to Skarmory to lay down a layer of Spikes pretty quickly since people love switching in Scizor against it.
I had a defensive Latias in the previous version, and it just wasn't as much fun. But I didn't use the Wish/Protect combo and the spread was something 252HP/252Spe/4Def.
I will try a more defensive Latias with the 252HP/78Def/180Spe spread with the exact same move set to see how it does.
You got me wrong, Lucario might be revenged by your team, but you have no initial switch in, also you give Lucario many occasions to comein and rape you, especially your scarfed Jirachi. Also Skarmory will be ohkoed by a +2 CC when it has taken some damage before, and you won't be able to keep it at full health.
But the real issue here is the fact that nothing can take a Close Combat even when it did not use SD, exept for Rotom and Uxie, which both can be killed with Crunch.
But the real issue here is the fact that nothing can take a Close Combat even when it did not use SD, exept for Rotom and Uxie, which both can be killed with Crunch.
Neither do I have any switch in for a MixMence, etc. It all comes down to good prediction and switching, and that's what this game is all about. Good prediction/switching or "skills" is what separate the big boys from the little ones. Anyways...
I already explained to you earlier about Lucario. There is no way that thing can ever "rape" me unless the situation I stated in a previous post presents itself.
The SPrinkLer
Banned deucer.
NO. Anyway, Infernape ravages your team if Latias is down, which can be easy to do, since CBTar beats the shit out of it. Uxie doesn't really do anything at all except lead and spread around sleep, but it's also bait for CBTar. Rotom with a Scarf is as well. I'd try RestTalk Gyarados over Uxie, so you have a more reliable counter to Infernape. It also serves as a check for Scizor and Lucario. You can also directly switch this into Lucario. As for Stealth Rock missing, put it in on Jirachi. I'd replace Fire Punch, because Gyarados and Rotom already serve great checks against Scizor and Lucario, the two things you'd need Fire Punch for. I'd also probably make Heatran a bit faster and substitute some SpD EV's for Defense, since you might be switching it into Scizor's U-turns depending on your style of play. I hope I helped, and good luck with the team!
No?? Please do enlighten me as to why you disagree.
Just like Lucario. Infernape has never been a problem and will never be a problem for me. Why?
1) Infernape usually carries Life Orb. With residual damage from Life Orb and other entry hazards, it won't be able to remain in battle for very long.
2) Even Jirachi's Iron Head does 25-30% of damage to Infernape. Add in Serene Grace, it's a good chance Infernape will faint before he can even make a move.
3) Rotom-W can switch in on Close Combat and just fucks it over with Thunderbolt.
4) Even Uxie can absorb hits. As a max Special Attack Infernape with Life Orb does only 56-66% damage to Uxie with Fire Blast. This means if Uxie has over 67% health left, he will be able to switch in afterward to Yawn at Infernape, forcing a switch. If not, he'll be put to sleep. If he switches, it's a high chance I already have at least SR and a layer of Spikes on the field, which means Infernape is on the verge of fainting when he switches back in.
Now, if Latias is still alive, then Infernape would have a very, very hard time doing anything to me at all unless he has U-Turn then that can get irritating. I'm so confident with my team's ability to deal with Infernape that I don't even need to add more Speed to Latias to ensure that Latias will always be able to outspeed it.
Infernape has never been an issue to me ever. I'll only get "ravages" by him if Jirachi, Latias, Rotom-W are all fainted. If such a situation should arrive, then I deserve to lose.
----
Gyarados is a good pokemon, no doubt. However, I absolutely loathe any pokemon that is weak to SR. Hence I will not use Gyarados. If I were to replace Uxie, Gliscor would be an excellent choice as it can also deal with Lucario and Scizor somewhat. Uxie's combo of Yawn/U-Turn is just too amazing to replace, especially on a team like mine. Until I find something more suitable, he will remain my lead.
The SPrinkLer
Banned deucer.
I disagree because some of the most notable Pokemon players are users of Heavy Offense, which requires no prediction, and as some would say, "no thinking."
Stathakis, Ipl, and Rey are prime examples of this. They all use HO and to great effect. This is why I disagree. Don't get me wrong, prediction is an amazing asset, because people like EW (my idol) use it to great extent.
Stathakis, Ipl, and Rey are prime examples of this. They all use HO and to great effect. This is why I disagree. Don't get me wrong, prediction is an amazing asset, because people like EW (my idol) use it to great extent.
I see a pretty big life orb latias weakness. Nothing can switch in safely to any of her attacks, and your threat list doesn't make much sense. Heatran can't do anything to her and takes 43.01% - 50.78% from surf, which is usually a 2HKO with stealth rock. Rotom takes 103.31% - 121.90% from a draco meteor and shadow ball doesn't KO her. She out speeds your latias and does 139.74% - 164.90% with draco meteor. Jirachi can't take repeated hits from her.
To fix this I suggest a choice band scizor:
Scizor @ Choice Band | Technician
Adamant 160HP | 176 Att | 168 SpD. | 4 Speed
Bullet Punch / U-turn / Pursuit / Superpower
This should patch up your latias weakness. I would replace jirachi with him since they almost have the same roles. You would still be able to revenge kill salamence and other threats with bullet punch, and scout with u-turn. Pursuit to trap and kill latias. Superpower for magnezone that try to trap you and incoming heatrans.
Next, I don't see why you're using a uxie lead. It doesn't do anything besides set up stealth rock and maybe cause a switch. Also, uxie losses to the most common leads:
1. Azelf sets up stealth rock then blows up on you.
2. Metagross sets up stealth rock then meteor mash 2HKO's you or explodes.
3. Jirachi 3HKO's you with iron head with the possibility of flinching.
4. Aerodactyle taunts you and sets up stealth rock while you can't do anything to him.
5. I guess you beat swampert.
6. Infernape 2HKO's you with fire blast.
7. You're not using lum berry so roserade puts you to sleep and sets up toxic spikes.
I highly recommend a gliscor lead over uxie.
Gliscor @ Leftovers | Sand Viel
Jolly | 252 HP | 220 Speed | 36 Def
Stealth Rock / Roost / Earthquake / Taunt
This should help out with your slight lucario weakness. I know you say you're not, but you do have a slight weakness. This would also help out with your huge machamp weakness.
I notice that two of your counters to many threats are picked off easily by choice band tyranitar. Also, like aragornbird stated, latias will lose to tyranitar. I would take j. franky's advice and use Bloo's spread of 192 HP | 64 Def | 252 Spe with a timid nature. With the moves Reflect / Dragon Pulse / Wish / Protect /. I think that would help prevent tyranitar from trapping an important member of your team.
Anyways, hope i helped and good luck with your team!
To fix this I suggest a choice band scizor:
Scizor @ Choice Band | Technician
Adamant 160HP | 176 Att | 168 SpD. | 4 Speed
Bullet Punch / U-turn / Pursuit / Superpower
This should patch up your latias weakness. I would replace jirachi with him since they almost have the same roles. You would still be able to revenge kill salamence and other threats with bullet punch, and scout with u-turn. Pursuit to trap and kill latias. Superpower for magnezone that try to trap you and incoming heatrans.
Next, I don't see why you're using a uxie lead. It doesn't do anything besides set up stealth rock and maybe cause a switch. Also, uxie losses to the most common leads:
1. Azelf sets up stealth rock then blows up on you.
2. Metagross sets up stealth rock then meteor mash 2HKO's you or explodes.
3. Jirachi 3HKO's you with iron head with the possibility of flinching.
4. Aerodactyle taunts you and sets up stealth rock while you can't do anything to him.
5. I guess you beat swampert.
6. Infernape 2HKO's you with fire blast.
7. You're not using lum berry so roserade puts you to sleep and sets up toxic spikes.
I highly recommend a gliscor lead over uxie.
Gliscor @ Leftovers | Sand Viel
Jolly | 252 HP | 220 Speed | 36 Def
Stealth Rock / Roost / Earthquake / Taunt
This should help out with your slight lucario weakness. I know you say you're not, but you do have a slight weakness. This would also help out with your huge machamp weakness.
I notice that two of your counters to many threats are picked off easily by choice band tyranitar. Also, like aragornbird stated, latias will lose to tyranitar. I would take j. franky's advice and use Bloo's spread of 192 HP | 64 Def | 252 Spe with a timid nature. With the moves Reflect / Dragon Pulse / Wish / Protect /. I think that would help prevent tyranitar from trapping an important member of your team.
Anyways, hope i helped and good luck with your team!
Thank you for your rate.
Before I comment on some of the other things you said, let me just clarify on why I use Uxie and why Uxie is an excellent lead; Uxie does not lose to any leads.
This is how I deal with other leads:
Azelf: I use U-turn, then I switch in Jirachi and U-Turn back to Uxie, killing off Azelf in the process. If Azelf Taunted Uxie prior to the U-Turn then the enemy loses a pokemon for nothing while we're in the exact same position as when we started with me having one pokemon more than the enemy. If Azelf uses SR instead, then it's still the same result. Unless the enemy Azelf explodes instantly, which has never happened.
Metagross: Uxie uses SR then U-Turn to Skarmory to set up Spikes if Metagross doesn't Explode. Yes, even Skramory doesn't like to take an incoming Explosion from Metagross, but it's the best switch in I can do. I'm considering making my Rotom-W a bulky Rest/Sleep Talk in the next version of this team just so I would have a safe switch in. The current Rotom-W doesn't like to take a Meteor Mash from Metagross.
Jirachi: If it's a bulky lead, then Jirachi will not be faster than my 95 Base Speed Uxie, which means I can always put down SR. If Jirachi is a Scarfed variant, then it can either U-Turn, set up its own SR, or Iron Head Hax or even Trick. If it U-Turn, then I can set up SR since U-Turn really doesn't do much to Uxie (about 30% damage). If Jirachi uses Trick or set up SR, then I still get to set up SR. If it Iron Head hax, then I'll switch in Skarmory to set up free Spikes. Not much of a problem at all.
Aerodactyl: Pretty much same thing as Azelf. I U-Turn. If it uses Taunt, then Rotom-W or Jirachi will kill it off on the next turn while I lose nothing at all.
Swampert: You got that one right.
Infernape: I can always set up SR then switch in Latias. No problem at all.
Roserade: That's why I have Safeguard. Roserade can't touch my Uxie. Uxie has a max speed of base 95, Roserade has max speed base 90. Even if the occasional ScarfRoserade put my Uxie to sleep, Toxic Spikes are pretty useless against me. All of my pokemon are immune to Toxic Spikes.
Like I said in a previous post, not only is Uxie a beast of a lead, but the combination of Yawn + U-Turn is just plain awesome. You'd be surprised how a lot of people are unwilling to have a sleeping pokemon, resulting in a lot of switches causing their pokemon to lose health from residual damages. Yes, some people are that clueless.
Also, once Uxie sets up Rock, it has another job. That job is to take hits and to be a sacrificial goat, especially against things like a Life Orb Latias. And once Latias kills Uxie off, Jirachi can come in and fuck it over with U-Turn or Iron Head. That's pretty much how I deal with Life Orb Latias, by having good switches. Life Orb Latias has never caused my team any problems, but you're absolutely right, she and Life Orb Starmie and both pains in the butt since I don't have any safe switch in for them. Even though I play well enough to deal with them, it's still good to have a pokemon that can safely switch in to them, which I will include in the next version of my team.
I have tried a Gliscor lead, and Uxie just does a much, much better job than he could ever do. Thought Gliscor's Taunt and ability to wall Machamp and counter Lucario are pluses. I still like Uxie's combo of Yawn + U-Turn much better.
Yes, Latias will lose to Tyranitar unless Tyranitar switches in on a Surf from Latias and Tyraintar doesn't hold a Choice Scarf. But that's okay. I have two scarfed pokemon to ensure some safety against shits like Infernape, Starmie and other quicker pokemon once Latias faints.