Creative / Underrated Sets in the UU Metagame

[Reign of Hail]

Thanks I will edit when not on mobile!

 

[imaloony]

I posted this set in the Suspect of the Week thread, but I decided it deserves a mention here too:

Machamp@Assault Vest
252HP/252Att/4SpDef
Ability: Guts
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch/Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/Stone Edge ect.

This is similar to the No Guard AV Machamp, but the twist here is that it uses Guts and Close Combat instead of No Guard and Dynamic Punch. This gives Machamp a fantastic tank position on a team, as, similar to Conkeldurr in OU, he can soak scalds and hit back for massive damage. The key here is that since No Guard Machamp is more common, most will expect Machamp to be crippled once he gets burnt, whereupon a surprise Close Combat knocks something out of the game.
The main issue here is that you lose some of Machamp's bulk after dropping that powerhouse CC, so you'll need to switch him out after each hit, but he's so slow that it's unlikely he'll be hit when his defenses are lowered.

 

[Kink]

I have a 3-Way core to share c:

(1)

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 48 Def / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Used this Krook during Research Week, turned it into a standard taunt set for my 3.0 team. Beats all other krooks (cause of bulk up). 2kos M-Blastoise after +1. Shuts down Forretress/wishstall (non-fairy), beats band Victini/Darmanitan 1vs1 after -1 Intimidate. Speed creeps 243, which creeps 242'ers creeping Honchkrow. Still happens. Partners exceptionally well with:

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 120 HP / 212 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Taunt

• Survives Scarfgon Draco-Meteor and Roosts. Beats it 1vs1 (scout first though :3)

AND

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD OR 220HP / 192 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Wish
- Protect

• Difference between the EVs has to do with Raikou. Option two is better, is it better helps against Scarf Thunderbolt. Option 1 is better against the rest of the metagame, though the difference is minimal (~1% damage).

This results in a pass-turn pivot core that allows you to shutdown most set-up sweepers, namely crocune.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I have a 3-Way core to share c:

(1)

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 48 Def / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Used this Krook during Research Week, turned it into a standard taunt set for my 3.0 team. Beats all other krooks (cause of bulk up). 2kos M-Blastoise after +1. Shuts down Forretress/wishstall (non-fairy), beats band Victini/Darmanitan 1vs1 after -1 Intimidate. Speed creeps 243, which creeps 242'ers creeping Honchkrow. Still happens. Partners exceptionally well with:

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 120 HP / 212 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Taunt

• Survives Scarfgon Draco-Meteor and Roosts. Beats it 1vs1 (scout first though :3)

AND

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD OR 220HP / 192 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Wish
- Protect

• Difference between the EVs has to do with Raikou. Option two is better, is it better helps against Scarf Thunderbolt. Option 1 is better against the rest of the metagame, though the difference is minimal (~1% damage).

This results in a pass-turn pivot core that allows you to shutdown most set-up sweepers, namely crocune.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put this in the UU Cores Thread (RIP) NP thread or even Metagame Trends? For the most part the sets themselves are pretty standard barring the optimized EV Spreads (except on Krook of course). Not knocking what you have but I'm more or less suggesting it be posted somewhere more fitting for this since the focus is entirely on the core you're using it in rather than the Krook itself

 

[aim]

My version of Sub Cm Suicune. Basically I wanted enough speed to outspeed most forms of defensive jirachi. max hp for 101 subs so they can't be broken by 1 Seismic Toss. Sets up on pokemon such as Jirachi, Alomomola, Florges, Gligar and Blissey. I've found that it works well with Toxic Spikes support as you can beat blissey quicker that way without relying on a burn. Scald is still a nice option regardless because of the burn chance. Ice beam to hit pokemon like Hydreigon and Grass types in general. Solid mon.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

 

[Kink]

My version of Sub Cm Suicune. Basically I wanted enough speed to outspeed most forms of defensive jirachi. max hp for 101 subs so they can't be broken by 1 Seismic Toss. Sets up on pokemon such as Jirachi, Alomomola, Florges, Gligar and Blissey. I've found that it works well with Toxic Spikes support as you can beat blissey quicker that way without relying on a burn. Scald is still a nice option regardless because of the burn chance. Ice beam to hit pokemon like Hydreigon and Grass types in general. Solid mon.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

I've been having a hard time facing that cune. The Speed evs always come off as a surprise. Dudeman130498, do you run the same ev spread?

Non-suicune related, here's a set that I've found myself using of late:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Stealth Rock

I've been using this suicidal anti-lead ape for a while now. It has huge surprise factor, something its Azelf counterpart can no longer do as a suicide lead. Biggest problem it faces is 50/50s with galvantula, so make sure you have something that can either provide spinning support or something that can take it out before it can set up sticky web.

This set fits best on a balance team that leans on the offensive side. It's particularly useful in setting up "momentum sweeps", as I like to call them. Grass knot does between 40-55 to most blastoises (depends on hp bulk). Does ~40% to +0 cune after leftover recovers. There will be times when a user will have to make a choice between using taunt and S/R. Gauge the team, and you'll find the true path ^^.

 

[aim]

I'd like to try that set though maybe a priority move over taunt or cc.

 

[Kink]

I'd like to try that set though maybe a priority move over taunt or cc.

I actually used Earthquake for asshats like chandy, at one point :P

 

[dodmen]

My version of Sub Cm Suicune. Basically I wanted enough speed to outspeed most forms of defensive jirachi. max hp for 101 subs so they can't be broken by 1 Seismic Toss. Sets up on pokemon such as Jirachi, Alomomola, Florges, Gligar and Blissey. I've found that it works well with Toxic Spikes support as you can beat blissey quicker that way without relying on a burn. Scald is still a nice option regardless because of the burn chance. Ice beam to hit pokemon like Hydreigon and Grass types in general. Solid mon.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

I've been having a hard time facing that cune. The Speed evs always come off as a surprise. Dudeman130498, do you run the same ev spread?

My EV spread is 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe with a Modest nature which actually hits the exact same speed as aim's spread. It's useful for setting up against defensive Jirachi, like he said, but also outspeeds Adamant Honchkrow and can set up a sub on Tentacruel. This spread sacrifices the ability to set up on Blissey for power, most notably the ability to 2HKO offensive Mega Ampharos and offensive Shaymin/Celebi. Can confirm that T-Spikes support is great for this mon as makes it way easier to get past Blissey and Vaporeon.

 

[Tipsy Russian]

I've been using a set recently and it actually has been doing not to terrible.

Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Slack Off

The EV's are to outspeed adamant/modest 252 EV'd Lucario and proceed to set up on it. What this set truely needs is for infernape to learn drain punch. With this, it would be able to get somewhat reliable recovery and be possible for Ape to run drain punch over slack off to not be checked by as many things. These EV's also allow it to set up on Hydreigon 1 v 1. If LO and Scarf Hydra draco's on the first turn and you slack off, can proceed to slack off and boost up. Spec's Hydreigon has a 18.8% chance to OHKO ape at full health. The amount of walls that this can set up on is unreal. Take for example Swampert, If you can come in on something that can be scared out by the possibility of the standard MixApe set, bulk up on the switch, and bulk up as he Earthquakes or Scalds, neither will be able to 2HKO. The only problem i see with this set is the lack of power, you need to boost high to do much damage back to anything.
Calcs:
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 207-244 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 269-317 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
16 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. +2 248 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 158-188 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Swampert Scald vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 152-180 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 112-133 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[nv]

I've been using a set recently and it actually has been doing not to terrible.

Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Slack Off

The EV's are to outspeed adamant/modest 252 EV'd Lucario and proceed to set up on it. What this set truely needs is for infernape to learn drain punch. With this, it would be able to get somewhat reliable recovery and be possible for Ape to run drain punch over slack off to not be checked by as many things. These EV's also allow it to set up on Hydreigon 1 v 1. If LO and Scarf Hydra draco's on the first turn and you slack off, can proceed to slack off and boost up. Spec's Hydreigon has a 18.8% chance to OHKO ape at full health. The amount of walls that this can set up on is unreal. Take for example Swampert, If you can come in on something that can be scared out by the possibility of the standard MixApe set, bulk up on the switch, and bulk up as he Earthquakes or Scalds, neither will be able to 2HKO. The only problem i see with this set is the lack of power, you need to boost high to do much damage back to anything.
Calcs:
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 207-244 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 269-317 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
16 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. +2 248 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 158-188 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Swampert Scald vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 152-180 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Infernape: 112-133 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I do agree. Drain Punch would be such a nice move, allowing Ape to hit things that wall his Fire/Ground coverage such as Hydreigon, Bulky Waters, and so on. inb4 Gen 7 tutors give Ape the Drain Punch. :)

+1 0 Atk Iron Fist Infernape Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 330-390 (101.2 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[gillian]

Kabutops @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EV's: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature

-Waterfall
-Knock Off/Rapid Spin
-Stone Edge
-Swords Dance

Your run of the mill rain sweeper except for the fact that this one is tailored to outspeed Jolly MegAero in the Rain and to survive 3 seismic tosses with 1HP left.
Otherwise, it's really kinda basic. It's not really creative, just a tweak from the standard 4/252/252. The choice between Knock Off & Rapid Spin is yours. Mind that you cannot hit Toxicroak with this, but considering you'll be running a rain team, you should have a counter for that anyways.

 

[IronBullet]

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Atk
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes
- Whirlwind

This guy has a really cool niche as a Toxic Spiker in UU. What sets Drapion apart from Roserade, Tentacruel and Forry is its access to Whirlwind and Taunt, which lets it p-haze using its own hazards and simultaneously shut down defensive teams. In particular Taunt helps against status users and slow Defog users like Empoleon and Gligar. STAB Knock Off is also a great plus point. It's a very good Mega Zam check (one of the few that can beat any of its sets) and gets plenty of opportunities to come in and lay down Toxic Spikes against defensive Pokemon and offensive threats such as Celebi, Roserade, Azelf, and Mega Absol.

Some calcs:

252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 104-123 (30.3 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 81-95 (23.6 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 178-211 (51.8 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 124-147 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 82-97 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

[Silver4998]

I was dumb enough to post this in the OU thread, sigh...

Oh well, let's get into it.

PRAISE LORD HELIX
Omaster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earth Power / Ancientpower
- Surf / Scald
- Ice Beam

Not really going to go into great detail here, it's a revenge killer/late-game sweeper that does it's job well, and chances are you can get 2 SS boosts off before you're knocked down to your sash if you play your cards right.

 

[Panda]

I've been trying out a somewhat unorthodox Suicune set. At least, according to XY standards; I'm sure Mirror Coat was used off-and-on in past gens.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe (EVs are adjustable, depending on how much you want to take from the special side)
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Mirror Coat
- Ice Beam/Rest

The logic here is that before Suicune has a chance to fully set-up, players will typically attempt to tear it down with special attacks. Fortunately, Suicune has a ton of bulk and even after just one Calm Mind it can survive almost every special attack thrown at it (and KO back).

252 SpA Life Orb Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 211-250 (52.3 - 62%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 240-284 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 230-272 (57 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 252-299 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 174-206 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 160-188 (39.7 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 148-177 (36.7 - 43.9%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 320-377 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-H Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 152-180 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

​

This set is meant to be less of a sweeper and more of a team supporter. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't sweep at all. Pair up Suicune with a Wish Passer so you can potentially set-up later on once the threat is dead. I personally like running Ice Beam to help remove the dragons (especially Zygarde) and catch grass types off-guard, but if you're not passing Wishes or whatever then Rest is always an option.

Obviously, you need to be more careful when switching it into stuff, but the result of a properly-timed Mirror Coat can be devastating.

 

[dodmen]

When it comes to Krookodile, Choice Band is the default for a lot of higher level play. Here's another effective offensive set:

Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Taunt

I've found a lot of success with this set, it lets you bluff being Choice Banded and punish things that may be looking to take advantage of that. Most importantly, it lets you trap Chandelure, Jirachi, etc without the AIDS that is choice-locked Pursuit, and it still packs a respectably strong boosted Knock Off. Taunt is a fantastic move on this, letting you beat things like Gligar and sometimes Hippowdon 1v1, preventing hazards/Defog, and stopping nasty Suicunes and Zygardes from setting up.

The speed EVs let you outrun Timid Chandlure (and therefore Adamant Lucario) but you can adjust it to outspeed Nidoking if that's a problem, or just go max to outspeed Roserade/PZ and tie with other Krookodiles. The added bulk is certainly nice for switching into Raikou, Jirachi, and others though. Taunt can also be replaced with Stealth Rock if your team lacks that.

Overall I definitely like this set better than the Banded set thanks to the added utility (though I normally just run max Speed on mine).

And no matter what anyone (Meru) says, Dread Plate is infinitely better than BlackGlasses.

 

[psVoltage]

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder

This roserade was used specially on my Zygarde team to take out major threats and setup a layer of toxic spikes. The speed lets you outspeed things like nidoking and sleep them. Leaf storm is used to finish off bulky waters that have been worn down by toxic spikes just a bit.
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 432-510 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 368-434 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Just an example to show that It will for sure kill at around 70-80% range. Shoutouts to DMT 's RMT featuring roserade for furthering my choice of roserade for a partner. (I won't post his zygarde set, but its simply amazing and I've been using that with this set, heres a link to the RMT. Link)

 

[Meru]

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder

This roserade was used specially on my Zygarde team to take out major threats and setup a layer of toxic spikes. The speed lets you outspeed things like nidoking and sleep them. Leaf storm is used to finish off bulky waters that have been worn down by toxic spikes just a bit.
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 432-510 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 368-434 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Just an example to show that It will for sure kill at around 70-80% range. Shoutouts to DMT 's RMT featuring roserade for furthering my choice of roserade for a partner. (I won't post his zygarde set, but its simply amazing and I've been using that with this set, heres a link to the RMT. Link)

I know namehtmas used a similar set on his Zygarde team, instead opting for HP Fire to take out some Steel-types. You also might want to increase the speed for max speed timid Rotom-H, although I don't know how common that is.

 

[psVoltage]

I know namehtmas used a similar set on his Zygarde team, instead opting for HP Fire to take out some Steel-types. You also might want to increase the speed for max speed timid Rotom-H, although I don't know how common that is.

Yeah I just wanted to post it here is all, I don't claim to have created the set myself. You could go to outspeed rotom-h but you might as well run no hp investment at that point. ( I don't know how much investment it actually is) The bulk it has now is so that it can swap into bulky waters even if they ice beam and get off at least one layer of toxic spikes. Or kill them outright with Leaf storm.

 

[dodmen]

I know namehtmas used a similar set on his Zygarde team, instead opting for HP Fire to take out some Steel-types.

I've been thinking about this for some time but haven't gotten around to actually using it: What do people think about Hidden Power Ground over Hidden Power Fire on Roserade? You're still able to hit almost every steel type for the same amount of damage: Lucario, Jirachi, Metagross, Aggron (is OHKOd before Mega). Hidden Power Ground also lets you OHKO Nidoking, almost OHKO Nidoqueen, and 2HKO Tentacruel (who is considered one of Roserade's best switchins). Not only that, but you also get to OHKO Entei (Sludge Bomb doesn't quite manage to do so after rocks) and Chandelure, who would normally be able to switch into any attack. If you're colossal you can even deal upwards of 90% to Crobat on the Roost :]. Another small but definitely helpful benefit is keeping all 31 IVs in speed (you have to lower your speed to use HP Fire, but not HP Ground) meaning you can outspeed HP Fire Roserade and at least tie with other Roserade and Porygon-Z (assuming you run max speed).

The only advantage of Hidden Power Fire that comes to mind is being able to OHKO Forretress, but even that's cleanly 2HKO'd by HP Ground. This might be a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be because if you don't catch it on the switch, it has a turn to hazard/spin your spikes. But I'd certainly be willing to sacrifice this/forced to predict, in exchange for all of the benefits listed above. I could very well be missing something though so please let me know if I am [:

Edit: yup forgot Chesnaught, also all calcs are for Technician Life Orb.

 

[Meru]

I've been thinking about this for some time but haven't gotten around to actually using it: What do people think about Hidden Power Ground over Hidden Power Fire on Roserade? You're still able to hit almost every steel type for the same amount of damage: Lucario, Jirachi, Metagross, Aggron (is OHKOd before Mega). Hidden Power Ground also lets you OHKO Nidoking, almost OHKO Nidoqueen, and 2HKO Tentacruel (who is considered one of Roserade's best switchins). Not only that, but you also get to OHKO Entei (Sludge Bomb doesn't quite manage to do so after rocks) and Chandelure, who would normally be able to switch into any attack. If you're colossal you can even deal upwards of 90% to Crobat on the Roost :]. Another small but definitely helpful benefit is keeping all 31 IVs in speed (you have to lower your speed to use HP Fire, but not HP Ground) meaning you can outspeed HP Fire Roserade and at least tie with other Roserade and Porygon-Z (assuming you run max speed).

The only advantage of Hidden Power Fire that comes to mind is being able to OHKO Forretress, but even that's cleanly 2HKO'd by HP Ground. This might be a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be because if you don't catch it on the switch, it has a turn to hazard/spin your spikes. But I'd certainly be willing to sacrifice this/forced to predict, in exchange for all of the benefits listed above. I could very well be missing something though so please let me know if I am [:

I think you pretty much nailed everything, although Chesnaught is another big perk of HP Fire.

 

[psVoltage]

I've been thinking about this for some time but haven't gotten around to actually using it: What do people think about Hidden Power Ground over Hidden Power Fire on Roserade? You're still able to hit almost every steel type for the same amount of damage: Lucario, Jirachi, Metagross, Aggron (is OHKOd before Mega). Hidden Power Ground also lets you OHKO Nidoking, almost OHKO Nidoqueen, and 2HKO Tentacruel (who is considered one of Roserade's best switchins). Not only that, but you also get to OHKO Entei (Sludge Bomb doesn't quite manage to do so after rocks) and Chandelure, who would normally be able to switch into any attack. If you're colossal you can even deal upwards of 90% to Crobat on the Roost :]. Another small but definitely helpful benefit is keeping all 31 IVs in speed (you have to lower your speed to use HP Fire, but not HP Ground) meaning you can outspeed HP Fire Roserade and at least tie with other Roserade and Porygon-Z (assuming you run max speed).

The only advantage of Hidden Power Fire that comes to mind is being able to OHKO Forretress, but even that's cleanly 2HKO'd by HP Ground. This might be a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be because if you don't catch it on the switch, it has a turn to hazard/spin your spikes. But I'd certainly be willing to sacrifice this/forced to predict, in exchange for all of the benefits listed above. I could very well be missing something though so please let me know if I am [:

Is that using Technician or something? I've never seen these damage outputs anywhere.

 

[slated]

Is that using Technician or something? I've never seen these damage outputs anywhere.

I mean if you're running Hidden Power on Roserade you're probably and should be running technican rade.

 

[dodmen]

Don't want this thread to die cause it's really cool. Also I wanted to share this Dragalge set I had a bit of success with:

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 184 Def / 252 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / Scald

Specs Adaptability Dragalge is insanely strong, don't let the low base Sp Atk deceive you. Here are some calcs for Draco Meteor.

Counters

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 187-221 (52.9 - 62.6%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 289-340 (81.8 - 96.3%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bronzong: 168-198 (49.7 - 58.5%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 255-301 (90.7 - 107.1%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey: 294-348 (41.1 - 48.7%)

These are things that you would normally want to switch into Specs Dracos, all taking well over half (except Blissey, but doing 41-49% to a Blissey with a special move is insane). You almost don't even need your coverage move, because Draco is hitting all these Pokemon harder than the coverage moves. Most Pokemon that don't resist are just dying: for example, 252 HP Suicune almost always gets OHKOd after Stealth Rock damage, and offensive variants are flat out getting killed.

Sludge Bomb is used over Sludge Wave because of the chance to Poison things that may be able to avoid a 2HKO, like Vaporeon. You can't hit Chesnaught with this move, but that just gets destroyed by Draco. Remember that two Dracos are stronger than two Sludge Waves, if it comes down to it. The rest of the coverage is almost pointless, the only time you should ever use them is when the coverage is super effective against a Steel type. Shadow ball is there for Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong but isn't a great move to be locked into. Focus Blast is there for Snorlax: while Draco does more than Focus Blast, the latter doesn't come with a -2 SpAtk drop so you can kill it in two hits. It also hits Umbreon and Mega Aggron. Scald is basically pointless because two neutral Dracos do more than two super effective Scalds, and Sludge Bomb already gives you a nice status chance. Hydro Pump is an option I guess but Shadow Ball/Focus Blast is all you need.

The speed creep on the above set is to creep -Spe Swampert, which also lets it outspeed base 50s like Donphan, Mega Aggron, and Sableye as well as Hippowdon, uninvested Ampharos, Granbull, and most Mega Abomasnow.

The ability to utterly destroy whatever switches in isn't the only thing Dragalge has going for it. While Machamp shares this ability, Dragalge is blessed with a typing that is well-suited to let it come in multiple times and fire off hits repeatedly. I've invested my spare EVs into Defense rather than HP because its base HP is horrible, it's special defense is already really good letting it easily take Electric and Grass hits anyway, and this lets it take physical Fire and Fighting hits more easily.

Here's a short and probably incomplete list of things it can check: Celebi, Chesnaught, Roserade, Shaymin, Virizion, Whimsicott, Arcanine, Darmanitan, Entei, Infernape, Mienshao, Lucario, Toxicroak, Mega Ampharos, Raikou, Suicune, Mega Blastoise, and Yanmega. The italicized ones are shaky because of prior damage + coverage moves (ex: EQ on Darm).

Overall this is a really fun Pokemon to use, definitely put it on a team and give it a shot :] hope to see this thing rise in usage once people realize how good it is.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Suicune is a really good partner for this Pokemon.

 

[Panda]

Since Metagrossite was banned, I was trying to find another way outside of Assault Vest/Leftovers/Choice Band to use the big lug and I've been consistently happy with Weakness Policy + Agility.

Metagross @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Att / 224 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Agility
- Zen Headbutt/Thunder Punch/Grass Knot

EVs are adjustable for your needs, especially if you want to stick more in HP. However, I like being able to outpace scarf Mienshao after an agility. If you prefer a lower benchmark, though, then use 196 EVs for scarf base 100s, 184 for scarf Hydreigon, or 168 for scarf base 95s.

Should be obvious, but the strategy here is to bring it in late game when you're ready to clean up. Even with virtually no defensive investment, Metagross can take random Knock Offs, Earthquakes, and HP Fires like a champ. Once WP is activated, Metagross can OHKO or 2HKO most Pokemon in the tier after SR, bar physical Mega Aggron and physical Forretress. Even Porygon2 and physical Gligar have a chance of being 2HKOed after SR. Clear Body helps a lot, as your opponent can't just throw out Intimidators to weaken Metagross.

The simple fact about Metagross is that most people are prepared to handle it at +1, but not so much at +2, let alone with a speed boost under its belt.

As far as pairings go, Hydreigon is an obvious choice given how well in synergizes with Jirachi. A Life Orb set with Draco/Dark P./Fire B./Superpower can bop all previously mentioned physical walls. Rotom-H is another good potential partner, being able to take Will-o-Wisps/Thunder Waves while weakening the various bulky waters and steels who dare to get in Metagross's way. Save for fire attacks, Chesnaught eats up almost everything that Metagross is weak to including Shadow Ball (bc Bulletproof).