CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment

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pkmn-taicho321

pkmn-taicho321

@ Cyberzero: wooh harsh. Did I say anything uneducated? I'm just saying were my votes going and trying to reason bystanders into thinking about it.

@ hhjj: Wow didn't even think about that. Man that would work out great for either typing actually. weakening an ice weakness and strengthening a great resist. And I'd certainly like to see a bug with a fire resist. Heatproof might work as well, but I don't know whether or not that would be allowed (even though brongzong is the only one to aquire it and it's not all that common).
 

Not Scicky

hhjj said:
I really think Thick Fat could work. And actually, it aids either 2ndary typing, Electric + Bug loses its Fire weakness, and gains an Ice resistance, while Electric + Dragon loses its Ice weakness and improves its Fire resistance to 4x.

Isn't it about time we have a OU Bug type that isn't weak to Heatran?
And being Bug means Earth Power isn't Super effective either.

Thick Fat for fairness, viability, and lack of usage in todays OU metagame. (Snorlax just can't make great use of it all by itself).
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Actually, thick fat could not only stop heatran from ruining CAP8 (if it were a bug) it could possibly be a heatran COUNTER, taking neutral from Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse and Earth Power, as well as resisting HP Electric, Grass and Ice.
 
Matthew

Matthew

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Atyroki said:
Actually, thick fat could not only stop heatran from ruining CAP8 (if it were a bug) it could possibly be a heatran COUNTER, taking neutral from Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse and Earth Power, as well as resisting HP Electric, Grass and Ice.
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Considering that the Bug-type is a roaring 21 votes from Dragon, I don't think you should be getting your hopes up about an Electric/Bug-type CAP any time soon. This thread isn't about what ability will work with what type pokemon either, it should be whether or whether not an ability should be considered "neglected". After looking at the two lists I don't really see any that don't deserve their position, but I am curious if we're going to do a vote thread similar to the typing vote we have done over the past two days.
 
petrie911

petrie911

Let's see here...going down Smogon's Ability list...

Forewarn is a useful and very unusued ability. It's definitely at least as good as Anticipation.

Own Tempo and Tangled Feet would be particularly useful on a Dragon type, due to Outrage's confusion.

Filter is the same as Solid Rock, and should be treated accordingly. A similar thing applies to White Smoke and Clear Body.
 
Veedrock

Veedrock

Actually, thick fat could not only stop heatran from ruining CAP8 (if it were a bug) it could possibly be a heatran COUNTER, taking neutral from Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse and Earth Power, as well as resisting HP Electric, Grass and Ice.
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Oh really? Timid Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Zapdos:

359 Atk vs 216 Def & 384 HP (120 Base Power): 214 - 253 (55.73% - 65.89%)

Zapdos is hella beefy too. Neutral from a pokemon that powerful doesn't make it any less dangerous to deal with. It's like taking a Special Outrage.
 
Veedrock

Veedrock

And you're expecting a beefier CAP? Or were you expecting 255/135? Remember that an extreme BST isn't very realistic. Also, why not just use Argo (not directed at Joatmon)?

Filter is the same as Solid Rock, and should be treated accordingly. A similar thing applies to White Smoke and Clear Body.
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Why clutter the allowed list then? Also, you bring up a good point. I think White Smoke should be unallowed. It's the exact same as Clear Body and Metagross puts that ability to great use.
 

Joatmon

I am not expecting a "beefier" cap. I am not expecting anything specific at all, as I don't want to get ahead of myself in polls. All I was saying is that Zapdos is a really bad example to use as its special defense sucks quite a bit. But all of that is moot right now seeing as it is highly likely now that dragon will win and it resists many common sp. attacks.

Anyways, as far as abilities go, you are right in the fact that if two are pretty much identical and one is common while the other is not, both should be unallowed.
 
Shade of Elysia

Shade of Elysia

Joatmon said:
Anyways, as far as abilities go, you are right in the fact that if two are pretty much identical and one is common while the other is not, both should be unallowed.
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Agreed. Identical abilities should have identical placement regardless of name. Otherwise we could go "Hey, lets rename Levitate to Floatation and use it!"
 
Vividsketch

Vividsketch

Other abilities to considare that I don't already see on either list that are all at the very least only UU or BL abilities:

Pure/Huge Power (likely controversial)
Early Bird
Own Tempo (I think these two has been mentioned before already)
Tangled Feet (")
Rivalry
Sticky Hold

Just suggesting them for good measure, though really I only feel the top 2 are of any real potential use.

EDIT: Vital Spirit/Insomnia gone due to Fidget... my bad!
 
Veedrock

Veedrock

My views on the abilities mentioned.

Pure/Huge Power- Unallowed, up there with Simple in terms of overshooting. A bulky/fast/Dragon Dancing Medicham will be a serious problem.
Vital Spirit/Insomnia- See: Fidget
Early Bird- Allowed (nothing comes to mind)
Own Tempo - Ugh, I don't want to image a Dragon with this. No comment.
Tangled Feet - Allowed, though self induced confusion will make this annoying. If anything can use this effectively it's a Dragon.
Rivalry- Allowed, expect an influx of Females X)
Sticky Hold- Allowed
 

cyberzero

is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
pkmn-taicho321 said:
what about suction cups? If we gave this guy mid range stats and boosting moves that could prove very useful.
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Please read the list before making an uneducated post, Suction Cups was mentioned way earlier in this thread and has been in the allowed list for quite some time now.
 

Not Scicky

Here ya go Cyber

Allowed:
Aftermath
Air Lock/Cloud Nine
Anticipation
Battle Armor
Chlorophyll
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Damp
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Gluttony
Hustle
Iron Fist
Leaf Guard
Magic Guard
Marvel Scale
Mold Breaker
Poison Point
Quick Feet
Reckless
Rock Head
Rough Skin
Shell Armor
Shield Dust
Skill Link
Solar Power
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Tangled Feet
Thick Fat
Tinted Lens
Trace
Unburden

Unallowed:
Adaptibility
Drizzle
Drought
Forecast
Frisk
Huge Power
Insomnia
Limber
Magma Armor
Pure Power
Scrappy
Shadow Tag
Shed Skin
Simple
Slow Start
Snow Warning
Stall
Vital Spirit
Wonder Guard
 
Vividsketch

Vividsketch

Agreeing with Veedrock for the most part.

Though I consider that Own Tempo be Allowed (rather then 'no comment', lol)

And a side note on Pure/Huge Power..... these really on serve for us to pseudo by pass our capped 555 BST. Which is negligible and I don't think we really want to do.
 
Veedrock

Veedrock

I wasn't asking if it was allowed I was trying to get some discussion on it.
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Since cyberzero hasn't actually made it clear, we aren't trying to support or rally any abilities right now, or otherwise try to determine what ability we really want. We are only trying to determine what should be allowed and unallowed. The discussion/rally will be during the ability discussion, shortly before the actual ability poll. Not right now.
 
pkmn-taicho321

pkmn-taicho321

Veedrock said:
Since cyberzero hasn't actually made it clear, we aren't trying to support or rally any abilities right now, or otherwise try to determine what ability we really want. We are only trying to determine what should be allowed and unallowed. The discussion/rally will be during the ability discussion, shortly before the actual ability poll. Not right now.
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thanks for the clarification
 
Gothic Togekiss

Gothic Togekiss

is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Veedrock said:
Pure/Huge Power- Unallowed, up there with Simple in terms of overshooting.
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But one could undershooting it though one would have to ask if it's even possible to undershoot a Pokemon that have the ability Pure/Huge Power?

BTW, wasn't aware Simple was banned atm. Was they're some basic argument about it's placement or everyone just say "ban it" without reason?

hhjj~ Didn't Snorlax put Thick Fat to good use, not that I'm saying it's a bad idea to give it Thick Fat.
 
Veedrock

Veedrock

As somebody mentioned, Pure Power allows us to bypass the stat cap that is in place. Even with a base 30 attack, it has the ability to reach base 110 attack, which gives a lot of leeway for the other stats as it barely affects BST. It's hard to undershoot something like that.

And I believe that Simple was just a general concensus, though I find it's justified. Pretty much any stat upping with Simple is nuts; Bibarel isn't broken with it because its stats blow (not OU material) and the only thing it can abuse is Curse (which is still good, but his other stats don't make up for it). Simple is something that we'd have to be extremely cautious with, and it would require building on everything at the same time (which the process doesn't allow).

Oh, necro response but it just hit me. In response to me thinking Trace isn't "neglected":

@ Veedrock, me and Gen. Empoleon are quite parallel on this matter - if it ends up Electric / Bug, giving Trace would make it a very effective Heatran counter, among other things.
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It doesn't matter if it'll be effective. Levitate and Intimidate would also be effective. Doesn't mean they should be allowed.
 
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