CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 15b - New Move Poll

[Magmortified]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.

Type: Steel / Ghost
Ability: Frisk / Limber
Stats: 80 HP / 103 Atk / 85 Def /55 SpA /80 SpD /110 Spe

In this thread, vote for the new move you think would be best for CAP 7. Use the clicky poll above to vote. The names of the new moves are subject to change.

Options:

Steel or Ghost (STAB) U-Turn

Phase/Phase Attack:

Phase or Phase Attack
Type: Ghost
Power: 70
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20
Priority: 0

Attacks, then switches. Basically a U-turn clone ability with STAB and a theme to fit the pokémon as some of the concept art had it jumping out of a portal. Fits the scouting part, too.

Barrel Roll:

Barrel Roll
Type: Steel
Attribute: Physical
BP: 70
PP: 20
Accuracy: 100
Priority: 0
Effect: Switches out after damage.

Steel U-Turn, yessiree...

Soul Forge:

Soul Forge
Type: Ghost, Physical
BP: 100
PP: 10
Acc: 100%
Priority: 0
Effect: None

It's a Ghost type Earthquake. That seems well worth the time for a nice STAB Ghost attack, over Shadow Claw.

Shadow Strike:

I don't think we should create a steel STAB. Steel already has perfectly viable moves in Iron Head and Meteor Mash. They pack a nice punch and should force switches either through sheer power or flinching annoyance. Ghost is the STAB here needing help, since the very best attack it can have (not including Shadow Force) is Shadow Claw, that has a awful BP and rather useless secondary effect. With that in mind, I really suggest we make this new attack Ghost-Typed, so it has two good STABs to work with.

Moving to the secondary effect here, I am against pairing U-turn with Ghost Type as I really wouldn't like to see our best scouting move being nullified just because your opponent likes a normal type. Even without STAB, U-turn is already a fine move (take Flygon for example). Other examples of secondary effects that I don't find appealing for this poke are status inflicting moves (unless you do something like yawn, but this is for offensive moves), since switching out after being statused gives you no benefits (excluding nature cure pokes) and is actually bad, since it opens up the possibility of you getting another poke statused. So, I believe this move should have a secondary effect that either puts the opponent in a bad situation AND disappears upon switching (best examples being Confusion and stat reduction) or just forces the opponent out right away (roar for example). Of those options, I prefered to be a little conservative and chose something already existant (Crush Claw), only with a small power boost so it can play better the role of main STAB.

With all that being said, this is my proposition:

Shadow Strike (can you get more generic than that?)
Type: Ghost
Physical
Power: 80
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10
Special: 50% chance of lowering defense 1 stage

80 BP so it is reliable without being overly powerful; 95% accuracy because I feel a 100% accuracy move with that secondary effect would be a tad too good, especially if compared to Crunch (but I can change to 100% if necessary) and 95% is more than enough (take Air Slash, for example); 10 pp just because and 50% chance of lowering def 1 stage because a 2 stage drop can be a bit too extreme (for example it makes it possible for this poke to 2HKO Bronzong with LO, which is bad, while -1 packs enough power to 2HKO Bold Zapdos with LO and SR) and we need to make it happen often enough to make it reliable.

Spook:

Spook
Type: Ghost, Physical
BP: 80
PP: 10
Acc: 100%
Priority: 0
Effect: Has a 40% of lowering either the enemy's Attack or Special Attack by one stage. (Once the check has passed, there is an equal chance of either happening, like Tri Attack)

Phantom Energy:

Here's mines. It's basically a ghost type superpower. I wanted this move to hit harder than 100 BP, but I also wanted some kind of backfire to using this move, hence the atk and def drops.

Phantom Energy

BP: 120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100%
Effect: Lowers attack and defense by one stage after use.
Physical

Rift Hop:

Eh Bass thought the one that was posted earlier by someone else was a bit too much, so I thought I would clean it up a bit and make it less "broken". Credit for the name to whoever the original creator was.

Rift Hop
Power: 60
Accuracy: 100
Type: Ghost
PP: 10
Priority: 0
Ability: Acts like U-Turn except with the added effect that it halves the residual damage taken from Spikes / Stealth Rock upon entry for the Pokemon that switches in.

Spikes:
1 layer: 6.25% (6%)
2 layers: 9.375% (9%)
3 layers: 12.5% (12%)

Stealth Rock:
4x Resistant: 1.5625% (1%)
2x Resistant: 3.125% (3%)
Neutral: 6.25% (6%)
2x Weak: 12.5% (12%)
4x Weak: 25% (25%)

Trounce:

Trounce
Type: Ghost
Power: 90 (135)
Accuracy: 85
PP: 10 (16)
Priority: 0
Effect: Has a critical hit rate one stage higher than normal.

The Ghost-type equivalent of Crabhammer.

These are the Shadow Claw Calculations:

Gengar: 120.31% - 142.53%
BU Revvy: 59.38% - 70.31%
SpinnerStar: 70.18% - 82.81%
SpecStar: 90.42% - 108.05%
Celebi: 37.62% - 45.05%
Max HP/SpD Rotom Forms: 65.13% - 76.97%
Max HP/Def Rotom Form: 51.32% - 61.18%

It just misses out on Stealth Rock 0HKOs to several things. Trounce gives you a chance to mediate this.

To put things in perspective:

(103 + 50) x (75 x 1.5) = 153 x 112 = 17136
(103 + 50) x (90 x 1.5) = 153 x 135 = 20655

20655 / 17136 = 1.205357...

So Trounce is 1.2x as powerful as Shadow Claw. Using this figure to make some crude damage estimates;

Gengar: 120.31% - 142.53%
Trounce does about 144.37% - 171.04%
(actual damage: 144.27% - 170.23%)
BU Revvy: 59.38% - 70.31%
Trounce does about 71.26% - 84.37%
SpinnerStar: 70.18% - 82.81%
Trounce does about 84.22% - 99.37%
SpecStar: 90.42% - 108.05%
Trounce does about 108.50% - 129.66%
Celebi: 37.62% - 45.05%
Trounce does about 45.14% - 54.29%
Max HP/SpD Rotom Forms: 65.13% - 76.97%
Trounce does about 78.16% - 92.36%
Max HP/Def Rotom Form: 51.32% - 61.18%
Trounce does about 61.58% - 73.42%

This gives you a potential 0HKO on Rotom and Spin Starmie after Stealth Rock, a >90% chance to 2HKO Celebi after SR and Leftovers (Dusknoir too) as well as a guaranteed 0HKO on Specs Starmie.

To prove that the Trounce doesn't make Cap7 too powerful:

Bronzong (30.18% - 35.80%)
Cresselia (35.59% - 42.34%)
Suicune (20.30% - 24.01%)
Offensive Gyarados (30.72% - 36.14%) after Intimidate
Vaporeon (27.46% - 32.37%)
Swampert (22.00% - 26.25%)

Bulky Waters are not countered all of a Sudden. Cresselia, who is actually weak against the move, isn't even 2HKOd. Remember that Forretress, Skarmory, Magnezone and Tyranitar actually resist it too, and they have huge defence scores.

Pandemonium:

Pandemonium
Physical
Power: 80
Accuracy: 100
PP: 10
Priority: 0
Effect: Has a 20% chance to status the target. If this check passes, the target is burned, frozen, or paralyzed with equal probabilities for each.

It is basically a Ghost-typed physical Tri Attack. I think it fits this Pokemon well.

Shade Impact:

Shade Impact
Type: Ghost
Class: Physical
Base Power: 120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100%
Priority: 0

Effect: If opponent switches Pokemon on the turn this attack was selected (including Baton Pass or U-turn), this attack does nothing.
---

Notes: An awesome move for an awesome scout, as it encourages switching, therefore revealing information about your opponent's team.

Phantom Cleave:

This is interesting.

Phantom Cleave

BP: 120
PP: 5
Type: Ghost
Accuracy: 80%
Move Class: Physical
Effect: Has a high critical hit ratio.

Essentially a somewhat beefy Cross Chop/Stone Edge with a bit more power, it's pretty much a move you won't want to take from your generic non-normal wall.

 

[reyscarface]

Voted for "Rift Hop".

I love the idea, Entry hazards seriously hurt, but i think Rift Hop seriously helps with that :D

 

[ferron]

vote pandemonium as it seems to be the most likely to be both balanced and cause switches.

also, i just don't see a need for a STAB u-turn or rift hop. as i've stated in the past, most scouts work well even though they don't have STAB on u-turn, and we don't need another switch move considering all the ones we already have.

 

[umbreonleader]

Voted rift hop, because SR can hurt pretty bad.

 

[darkjjak]

Shadow Strike seemed like the best idea. A lot of people liked the idea of a Ghost Crush Claw (albeit this one has 5% less accuracy), and no one likes a reduction in defense I don't care what your function is.

 

[Magmortified]

I voted for Shadow Strike, because it's generally going to be the best method of forcing your opponent to switch out, plus being a reliable STAB move.

Rift Hop, I'm iffy on. The primary reason people seem to be voting for it is that it'll make it easier to bring in a flying type or so. I respect that, but it doesn't seem to be that great a move otherwise. :S

 

[Stellar]

Rift Hop!

 

[tennisace]

I personally like Rift Hop/Trounce, and voted Rift Hop.

PS: Stealth Rock or no Stealth Rock, Stratagem still rips through every Flying-type like tissue paper.

 

[Yarnus vs Hartwig]

shadow strike!
I don't see why most people are voting for rift hop.

 

[Articanus]

Rift Hop!

not only did I vote for Rift Hop, but I would also like to commend you on your signature as I have recently been addicted to all puzzle league games =]

 

[Infiltrator]

Voted Shadow Strike. A very good way to force switches.

 

[Colloquy]

Voted Shadow Strike.

 

[Griffin]

No Curse effect placer or Accuracy lowerer? D:

Well, then my vote goes to Shade Impact.

 

[Urza]

really rift hop or stab u-turn are the only moves appropriate for the ultimate scout.

 

[ferron]

can anyone give me a logical reason why this poke need yet ANOTHER move that allows you to switch? it has enough of them already, doesn't it? also, (in the case of rift hop) if you dislike the damage from traps so much then keep a rapid spinner, or be more careful on your switches and your team.

 

[Nietzsche]

Mine didn't get put in for some unexplained reason; voted Rift Hop.

 

[Scoopapa]

so rift hop wins by a long shot. This pretty much ensures that it will be useful.

 

[jagged_angel]

I voted for Shadow Strike, because it's generally going to be the best method of forcing your opponent to switch out, plus being a reliable STAB move.

Rift Hop, I'm iffy on. The primary reason people seem to be voting for it is that it'll make it easier to bring in a flying type or so. I respect that, but it doesn't seem to be that great a move otherwise. :S

I'm having to bandwagon it despite being iffy on the halving damage part - it's not STAB U-Turn but it's the next best thing.


Rift Hop voters should realise that this will have a major impact on the CAP Metagame with Flying types becoming used alot more.

 

[Deck Knight]

Rift Hop is a horrible Ghost STAB. It's weaker than Shadow Claw, forces you to switch out, and if there are no hazards, it's basically a Faint Attack that exposes one of your other pokemon to damage.

If you oppose Rift Hop, I implore you to bandwagon for Shadow Strike. It has a decent level of support and a good effect. It's basically a modified Crush Claw, and Crush Claw is a good move save for most of its users don't get STAB on it, and this does.

 

[Magmortified]

I'm having to bandwagon it despite being iffy on the halving damage part - it's not STAB U-Turn but it's the next best thing.

It's not even reliable Ghost STAB - which I think that CAP 7 could really use. Its function is already fulfilled by U-Turn - they even hit about the same types. Additionally, Rift Hop is blocked altogether by Normal types. Personally, I'd prefer a guarantee that I will be able to switch out and a new move that will further help me scout than for a blockable version of U-Turn with a few embellishments.

Rift Hop voters should realise that this will have a major impact on the CAP Metagame with Flying types becoming used alot more.

I'm kind of uncomfortable with the halving-damage part. And, really, that's the primary thing this has over U-Turn. Personally, I think people are saying, "lol fuck u stealth rock" and just voting. That's not as beneficial to the goal of this Pokemon as, say, Shadow Strike. Which'd additionally give us a reliable Ghost STAB that this thing really wants!

I almost feel like Rift Hop is winning on a shiny gimmick. :/ Seriously. SR is a manageable evil that has very little connotations for the goal of scouting. Why are we voting for something off of that?

 

[tennisace]

I almost feel like Rift Hop is winning on a shiny gimmick. :/ Seriously. SR is a manageable evil that has very little connotations for the goal of scouting. Why are we voting for something off of that?

Sorry. You use Rift Hop to bring out something threatening like Dragonite, to see what the opponent has to deal with it. Then, later, when you have eliminated that counter, bring out DDMence. That is definitely scouting.

 

[billymills]

80 BP so it is reliable without being overly powerful; 95% accuracy because I feel a 100% accuracy move with that secondary effect would be a tad too good, especially if compared to Crunch (but I can change to 100% if necessary) and 95% is more than enough (take Air Slash, for example); 10 pp just because and 50% chance of lowering def 1 stage because a 2 stage drop can be a bit too extreme (for example it makes it possible for this poke to 2HKO Bronzong with LO, which is bad, while -1 packs enough power to 2HKO Bold Zapdos with LO and SR) and we need to make it happen often enough to make it reliable.

Err, yea a 50% chance to drop defense can be easily offset by a 5% accuracy loss. The only move with a 50% chance of defense drop is Rock Smash, there's a reason it's only 40 power.

Rift Hop is a far superior option, being more powerful than U-Turn, yet allowing a counter to come in easier. Exactly what a scout should be doing.

 

[ferron]

Sorry. You use Rift Hop to bring out something threatening like Dragonite, to see what the opponent has to deal with it. Then, later, when you have eliminated that counter, bring out DDMence. That is definitely scouting.

thats double scouting with double the sacrifice. i'm not sure most people will be using it like that just bc of the 1/3 or you pokes investment needed.

 

[jagged_angel]

It's not even reliable Ghost STAB - which I think that CAP 7 could really use. Its function is already fulfilled by U-Turn - they even hit about the same types. Additionally, Rift Hop is blocked altogether by Normal types. Personally, I'd prefer a guarantee that I will be able to switch out and a new move that will further help me scout than for a blockable version of U-Turn with a few embellishments.



I'm kind of uncomfortable with the halving-damage part. And, really, that's the primary thing this has over U-Turn. Personally, I think people are saying, "lol fuck u stealth rock" and just voting. That's not as beneficial to the goal of this Pokemon as, say, Shadow Strike. Which'd additionally give us a reliable Ghost STAB that this thing really wants!

I almost feel like Rift Hop is winning on a shiny gimmick. :/ Seriously. SR is a manageable evil that has very little connotations for the goal of scouting. Why are we voting for something off of that?

I pretty much agree with everything you say, especially about people voting mainly because they loathe Stealth Rock.

If Shadow Strike has any chance in the next poll I will probably support it.

 

[jagged_angel]

Err, yea a 50% chance to drop defense can be easily offset by a 5% accuracy loss. The only move with a 50% chance of defense drop is Rock Smash, there's a reason it's only 40 power.

Rift Hop is a far superior option, being more powerful than U-Turn, yet allowing a counter to come in easier. Exactly what a scout should be doing.

There's also Luster Purge with 50% chance to drop SpD and that's got 70BP. But it's not even used over Psychic - i.e. it's not that good a move! So I hardly think you can call 80BP, 50% Def drop broken.