CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 15 - New Move Discussion/Submissions

[bugmaniacbob]

Rocket Punch
Type: Ghost
BP: 75 * (Userspeed/Targetspeed) max. 150
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100
Priority: 0

Interesting move idea, I think. The lack of any sort of physical STAB ghost move barring Shadow Claw is rather detrimental, and this 'reverse gyro ball' uses CAP7's good speed as an offensive tool. Assuming Jolly and 252 EVs, it hits 350 speed. I originally used 50 in the BP calculation, but that is still only around the power of Shadow Claw against most of the slower opponents in the CAP metagame, so I changed it to 75. Against an opponent of 250 speed (my chosen control stat) it hits with exactly 105 base power, similar to that of Return. Although the metagame at present is heavily built on speed, this move can effectively balance out all the damage done to walls and sweepers. Of course, Magnezone and Heatran don't care about this move, whatever their spread.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? I'm thinking of down-toning the base power a bit. Any thoughts?

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Because Focus Punch does?

Mind you, Focus Punch is 150 powered move with 100% and 20 PP, something had to give. Negative priority was their solution. Your move has Focus Punch priority and failing effect, why not increase the power, acc, and PP to match?

 

[ferron]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? I'm thinking of down-toning the base power a bit. Any thoughts?

i reaches cap much more easily than gyro ball does, due to both the base 75(your speed/opponent's speed) (as opposed to the 1+(25[(opponents speed)/your speed)])) in other words, its much more powerful.

ex. your move versus specran has a power of 108 (max+ speed), while bronzongs gyro ball only would only have a power of 85, even though there is a larger percentile difference between bronzong's and heatran's speed (with heatrans speed 3.857 times higher than bronzong's, while CaP7's 1.44 times higher than heatran's). the examples were chosen due to bronzong being the best gyro ball user and heatran being a standard threat with average speed (when unscarfed, not that either would stay in regardless)

 

[Yarnus vs Hartwig]

Shadow Strike (physical)
BP:90
Acc:100
PP:5
Effect: 65% to give ghost curse. 40 recoil

 

[Roserade Raider]

Edited based on suggestions.
Name- Fatal Knowledge (Ghost, Physical)
BP- 80
pp- 15
Accuracy- 100%
Effect- Divines the opponent's most powerful attack not already used, but loses 10% of it's HP.

Say CAP7 is up against a Salamence. CAP7 uses Fatal Knowledge, deals some good damage (due to STAB and decent attack stat), and finds out that Salamence is carrying, say... Flamethrower! this move is a good pair with Frisk (find out item, find out moves), making your opponent utterly predictable!

If this is broken, tell me and i'll fix it.

EDITED- Slightly lowered BP

reposted so more people can see it for the discussion. Birdy, the move is supposed to have some attacking power so it is a good attackingmove and a good scouting move. if it had lower BP and still had the recoil damage, you aren't getting enough bang for the buck.

 

[jagged_angel]

i just checked and the only moves that have 90BP and a 20% or over effect are rock climb (with its 85 Acc.) and sludge bomb (with its horrible attacking type), while just about all the others are pretty much divided into no effect, better chance of crit or 10% stat drop.

I don't know Where you got that idea ferron. There are alot more moves that are higher BP and higher effect, Thunder, Muddy Water, Sacred Fire to name but a few.

I think it's clear that everyone wants an effect that is going to occur fairly frequently. Since Gamefreak seems to take 30% as the bar for a plethora of Attack + High Chance of Side Effect moves, here's a list of Smogon's moves sorted by % chance of effect occurring.

Since we want a reliable STAB, and the best Physical Ghost STAB, Shadow Claw is 70BP, I'm only including moves of 70BP and over.

Most people want a reasonably accurate move too so I'll also exclude moves of less than 85% accuracy.

Name Power Accuracy Side Effect
Luster Purge 70 100% 5 50% chance to lower SpD 1 stage.
Mist Ball 70 100% 5 50% chance to lower SpA 1 stage.
Crush Claw 75 95% 10 50% chance to lower Def 1 stage.
Sacred Fire 100 95% 5 50% chance to burn. Thaws the user.
Seed Flare 120 85% 5 40% chance to lower SpD 2 stages.
Poison Jab 80 100% 20 30% chance to poison.
Sludge Bomb 90 100% 10 30% chance to poison.
Body Slam 85 100% 15 30% chance to paralyze.
Discharge 80 100% 15 30% chance to paralyze.
Muddy Water 95 85% 10 30% chance to lower accuracy 1 stage.
Air Slash 75 95% 20 30% chance to flinch.
Headbutt 70 100% 15 30% chance to flinch.
Iron Head 80 100% 15 30% chance to flinch.
Rock Slide 75 90% 10 30% chance to flinch.
Lava Plume 80 100% 15 30% chance to burn.

I don't know if this will help or if most of you have already looked for yourselves. Either way it might provoke some more discussion of the balance between power, accuracy and % chance of side effect occurring.

 

[ferron]

I don't know Where you got that idea ferron. There are alot more moves that are higher BP and higher effect, Thunder, Muddy Water, Sacred Fire to name but a few.

I think it's clear that everyone wants an effect that is going to occur fairly frequently. Since Gamefreak seems to take 30% as the bar for a plethora of Attack + High Chance of Side Effect moves, here's a list of Smogon's moves sorted by % chance of effect occurring.

Since we want a reliable STAB, and the best Physical Ghost STAB, Shadow Claw is 70BP, I'm only including moves of 70BP and over.

Most people want a reasonably accurate move too so I'll also exclude moves of less than 85% accuracy.

Name Power Accuracy Side Effect
Luster Purge 70 100% 5 50% chance to lower SpD 1 stage.
Mist Ball 70 100% 5 50% chance to lower SpA 1 stage.
Crush Claw 75 95% 10 50% chance to lower Def 1 stage.
Sacred Fire 100 95% 5 50% chance to burn. Thaws the user.
Seed Flare 120 85% 5 40% chance to lower SpD 2 stages.
Poison Jab 80 100% 20 30% chance to poison.
Sludge Bomb 90 100% 10 30% chance to poison.
Body Slam 85 100% 15 30% chance to paralyze.
Discharge 80 100% 15 30% chance to paralyze.
Muddy Water 95 85% 10 30% chance to lower accuracy 1 stage.
Air Slash 75 95% 20 30% chance to flinch.
Headbutt 70 100% 15 30% chance to flinch.
Iron Head 80 100% 15 30% chance to flinch.
Rock Slide 75 90% 10 30% chance to flinch.
Lava Plume 80 100% 15 30% chance to burn.

I don't know if this will help or if most of you have already looked for yourselves. Either way it might provoke some more discussion of the balance between power, accuracy and % chance of side effect occurring.

read the first line. i specifically state 90BP, not those with higher BP or with above 20% effect. plus i also mentioned sludge bomb and rock climb as exceptions as well as an exceptiong to the (notice sludge bomb is the only one on your list at 90BP)

 

[Genesis of Oblivion]

Ghoul Lunge/ something better
Type: Ghost
Physical
BP:100
PP:10
Acc:100
Priority:0
Description: The user summons the ghouls of the night and rushes the opponent with them.

EQ clone, just posting for disscusion any suggestions for good name?

 

[The_Dark_Sage]

Nazo Slash
Type: Ghost
BP: 75
PP: 15
Accuracy: 95
Effect: Has 50% Chance of giving the opponent either freeze, paralysis, or burn
NOTE: It is random, there is no way of making it be a certain one.
Nazo means Riddle, puzzle or enigma. But it also means mystery. Henceforth the effect has a chance of giving the opponent a status ailment which makes it a "mystery" of what it could give you.

Posted again. Any suggestions on it?

 

[Elegy]

Soul Forge
Type: Ghost, Physical
BP: 100
PP: 10
Acc: 100%
Priority: 0
Effect: None

It's a Ghost type Earthquake. That seems well worth the time for a nice STAB Ghost attack, over Shadow Claw.

Grrr.... That is MY submission Genesis of Oblivion! Go get your own!

 

[Legacy Raider]

Ok, just a quicky here:

Shadow Fang
Power: 90
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10
Effect: 50% chance to drop foe's Defense one stage.

Ghost is arguably a much better attacking type than Steel. Not only would this give CAP7 a reliable Ghost attacking STAB, it will be one that is great at forcing switches. I imagine this to work somewhat like Crobat and Gliscor currently use the Screech + U-turn strategy: after the Defense drop, the opposing pokemon is enticed into switching out, in which case you get the advantageous switch with U-turn. If they stay in, they risk being KOed or hurt badly on their lowered Defense stat.

Just a small point, I've decided to drop the accuracy down to 95%. All the other 'Fang' moves have 95% accuracy, and I do kind of see the point ferron is making. 95% is still perfectly useable I feel.

 

[jagged_angel]

Regarding the EQ clone move, I think there is more we can do with a new move than give CAP7 a better Ghost STAB.

Since this is the Ultimate Scout any new move should surely help it accomplish its purpose in some way.

Nazo Slash is ridiculously broken. 50% chance of Freeze? No way. Now if you changed it so it was maybe 20% chance of Freeze, 30% Burn, 40% Paralysis that would be ok but still pretty powerful. I also hate the name. Since most people haven't heard of Nazo it sounds more like Nazi Slash! Damn those Nazis.

Shadow Fang sounds good Legacy, it's Really powerful though, I'd be happier voting for it if it was closer to Crush Claw's BP.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Rocket Punch
Type: Ghost
BP: 50 * (Userspeed/Targetspeed) max. 150
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100
Priority: 0

Interesting move idea, I think. The lack of any sort of physical STAB ghost move barring Shadow Claw is rather detrimental, and this 'reverse gyro ball' uses CAP7's good speed as an offensive tool. Assuming Jolly and 252 EVs, it hits 350 speed. I originally used 50 in the BP calculation, but that is still only around the power of Shadow Claw against most of the slower opponents in the CAP metagame, so I changed it to 75. Against an opponent of 250 speed (my chosen control stat) it hits with exactly 105 base power, similar to that of Return. Although the metagame at present is heavily built on speed, this move can effectively balance out all the damage done to walls and sweepers. Of course, Magnezone and Heatran don't care about this move, whatever their spread.

Changed damage equation to 50, this gives it the same power (exactly) as Shadow Claw against aforementioned 250 speed opponent.
I don't know if it would be better to give it more power than this, I think that 64.3 would be the ideal number. Also, should this thing have an added special effect?

 

[Magmortified]

All right, people. Poll's up. We're done here.