CAP 33 - Part 16 - Post Play Lookback

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snake

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CAP Co-Leader
CAP 33 So Far

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In this stage we will first reflect on the process so far, discussing what we've learned from this process, how this well we have fulfilled its concept, and what impact CAP33 had on the metagame. After that, we will discuss some possible minor tweaks to the product in order to better fulfill our goals. Please follow the Topic Leader's instructions and don't propose any specific changes until they say so.

Changes allowed:
  • Typing changes
  • Changes to primary or secondary ability
  • Stat changes
  • Move additions and removals
 

ausma

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Hello gang, welcome back! It's been a bit since we've chatted about Cresceidon, but with the kickoff tour now having been completed and the metagame beginning to settle in the wake of both Cresceidon and the DLC2 metagame, it's time to get our PPL underway.

We faced (and are facing) the unique challenge of rapidly changing metagames as a result of the Teal Mask and the Indigo Disk DLCs, which was a complication that uniquely impeded Cresceidon (and Miasmaw). This will be a relevant aspect of our discussion soon when we begin to tweak Cresceidon's kit, but please note that I'd like to avoid talking too much about the Indigo Disk's impact on Cresceidon's process at the moment as it did not really have a bearing on the main process. For now, here are some questions to consider:

Concept & Performance Questions:
  • How did it feel to work with a more defensively-oriented concept? Do you think that we succeeded in exploring the relationship Speed has with defense? What did we learn from attempting it, regardless of if we succeeded?
  • Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
  • Is Cresceidon's presence in the metagame healthy, or does it disrupt balance? What components of Cresceidon's design contribute to your beliefs the most, and why?
  • Do Cresceidon's access to several different matchup-defining utility moves and two major competitive abilities contribute to your stance on its health? Is this worth noting for future processes?
  • Because Cresceidon has had to yield many metagame shifts, how do you believe it has adapted to the DLCs holistically? Do these adaptations teach us anything about the nature of defense in turbulent metagames?
Process Questions:
  • Do you feel that the process adapted well to the influx of changes brought by the Teal Mask? How did we do compared to Miasmaw, whose process was infamously disrupted by the Gen 8 DLCs?
  • What were your favorite and least favorite stages of the process? Why? How can we apply the process's strengths into future processes and learn from its weak points?
  • Do you feel as though your ideas and opinions were reasonably heard? If not, where did the discussion lapse for you and why?
  • How smoothly did the process go? Were there any particularly stressful pressure points that impeded the process, in your opinion?
  • What is the main takeaway for you from Cresceidon's process?
A reminder that you do not have to answer all these questions; only answer what you wish! I'll be back in about 48 hours to move the discussion forward.
 

Samirsin

✧Rey de los Snom✧
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
Besides Multiscale, I think that Thunder Wave is one of the main things that defines Cresceidon. Unless it misses, it is almost guaranteed to paralyze the opponent either by outspeeding or by surviving through Multiscale.
 
How did it feel to work with a more defensively-oriented concept? Do you think that we succeeded in exploring the relationship Speed has with defense? What did we learn from attempting it, regardless of if we succeeded?
I think this exploration has been really cool and has yielded one of the most organic cap mons we have made so far.
Making a Mon that gets by with a select few great characteristics and tools felt refreshing. Discussion felt much more focused working with a concept exploring teambuilding and gameplay roles instead of mechanics.
I think the takeaway is, that we shouldn’t shy away from strictly defensive concepts as CAP seemingly has in the past.
Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
To the surprise of no one fast speed control via thunder wave is Cresceidons best tool. In conjunction with Multiscale it makes Cresc a great stopgap to would be sweepers.
At the same time to use this effectively it requires clever play and a team that can take advantage of sweepers speed cut in half.
In the current Meta this ability to serve as a safety measure against multiple threatening offensive mons has proven invaluable and has helped diversify Teams away from the standard balance core of venom, Libra , argh of previous metagames.
On the downside we have seen complains about the uncompetitiveness of Para Hax, which aren’t entirely out of place, considering how easily Cresc inflicts this status.

Cresceidon's presence in the metagame healthy, or does it disrupt balance? What components of Cresceidon's design contribute to your beliefs the most, and why?
Even then I believe Cresc is almost entirely balanced and another healthy centralizing addition to the CAP meta, that makes it so much more enjoyable than OU.

Do Cresceidon's access to several different matchup-defining utility moves and two major competitive abilities contribute to your stance on its health? Is this worth noting for future processes?
Honestly I think none of the tools it has access to are superfluous in an unhealthy way. You probably could cut anything that isn’t Multiscale Moonblast, Water Stab, Thunderwave and Recover (I hope no one is considering a typing change) and it would still be a very good Mon to use. But having a bit of diversity to be able to slot on different teams isn’t the worst. I feel like with Cresc we’ve hit very close to a sweet spot considering the number of strong tools.
Because Cresceidon has had to yield many metagame shifts, how do you believe it has adapted to the DLCs holistically? Do these adaptations teach us anything about the nature of defense in turbulent metagames?
Opting for a concoction of several Generally good tools has helped future proof Cresc a lot. I am sure it will continue to be a great option for different team styles through any Metagame shift. Tbh in a lower power environment I could see Cresc being overturned even. I think starting with a great neutral defensive typing, combined with tools that offer several important niches for teambuilding is a pretty safe recipe to make a defensive Mon that will hold up to any meta shift (looking at mons like Ferrothorn, Gliscor or Skarmory, which have been staples on bulkier and more balanced teams in almost forever, thanks to their typing and utility)
Do you feel that the process adapted well to the influx of changes brought by the Teal Mask? How did we do compared to Miasmaw, whose process was infamously disrupted by the Gen 8 DLCs?
I think the nature of the concept helped a lot as having a clear(er) goal to work towards to helped with focus of discussion and consensus on where to move with the project.
I do think that the changes we’ve made to the process after Miasmaw have helped a lot in handling DLC meta shifts (although tbf we’ve also opted for much more cohesive and generally good options after Miasmaw, which itself in part was conceived as a reaction to the previous mostly overtuned processes).
It definitely will be interesting to see if it’s possible to work with more niche ideas and still have them adapt well to DLC shifts.
What were your favorite and least favorite stages of the process? Why? How can we apply the process's strengths into future processes and learn from its weak points?
Tbh with how focused the concept was discussions were still fine, but having almost anyone on board with the preferred options from the start of the stages didn’t spur the most interesting and rewarding conversations.
For that reason Typing was certainly the most interesting decision as it was what set the tone for the rest of the stages.
Having a meta with several highly volatile threats definitely influenced the discussion a lot and Cresc concept and execution almost feels like a fix the meta product, though we’ve managed to achieve this without making a Mon that would fall out of favor with a dlc shift, which definitely is a cool result.

  • How smoothly did the process go? Were there any particularly stressful pressure points that impeded the process, in your opinion?
  • What is the main takeaway for you from Cresceidon's process?
Honestly the process was as smooth as butter melting in your hands.
Having a Goal (role() to work towards to instead of a characteristic to build upon seems to make it easier to create a wholistic result. Though I also think that how we handled the process is a direct result from learning from Miasmaws mistakes and how knowing how DLCs can impact hyper focused ideas as opposed to more generally good builds.
 

Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
How did it feel to work with a more defensively-oriented concept? Do you think that we succeeded in exploring the relationship Speed has with defense? What did we learn from attempting it, regardless of if we succeeded? Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
Cresceidon sort of reminds me a lot of something like RBY Starmie where it has offensive presence because of its good Speed and STABs, plus useful defensive typing, but the most important thing is a fast Thunder Wave so it can force that Speed advantage. The direction was very clear, the execution was clean. Fast Thunder Wave on a Pokemon that can threaten Ground-types was a recipe for success, really makes you lean into an Electric-type slot. Paralysis has its 25% bullshit as it always had, its just part of making the dark bargain with the yellow magic.

Is Cresceidon's presence in the metagame healthy, or does it disrupt balance? What components of Cresceidon's design contribute to your beliefs the most, and why?
Cresceidon is a healthy addition, its typing is nice to have for the builder.

Do Cresceidon's access to several different matchup-defining utility moves and two major competitive abilities contribute to your stance on its health? Is this worth noting for future processes?
I hate Earth Power because it means your techy Plasmanta and Mollux have a chance to lose to a "bad" set. Encore feels bad when you get caught by it since it is the best "tech" option Cresceidon has and you do sort of have to scout it. Not something I feel like we have to cut per se, but between full paralysis and Encore and Scald Cresceidon is really good at making your offensive mons real sad, which is what most good defensive mons thrive on doing so concept successful I suppose. The two abilities are fine.

Because Cresceidon has had to yield many metagame shifts, how do you believe it has adapted to the DLCs holistically? Do these adaptations teach us anything about the nature of defense in turbulent metagames?
I will revisit this post CAPCL.


Do you feel that the process adapted well to the influx of changes brought by the Teal Mask? How did we do compared to Miasmaw, whose process was infamously disrupted by the Gen 8 DLCs?
Whereas Miasmaw was specific in what it targeted, and thus more prone to meta shifts, Cresceidon is largely an compendium of good general traits in a defensive Pokemon. This made it more adaptable to meta changes. It's design is more cohesive overall, whereas Miasmaw only got there by abandoning its concept in favor of a NGas Sweeper.

What were your favorite and least favorite stages of the process? Why? How can we apply the process's strengths into future processes and learn from its weak points? Do you feel as though your ideas and opinions were reasonably heard? If not, where did the discussion lapse for you and why? How smoothly did the process go? Were there any particularly stressful pressure points that impeded the process, in your opinion?
Ability had a very obvious frontrunner that had strengths but also very notable limitations to its effectiveness. This allowed a lot of room for secondary ability to be relevant, and it worked out wonderfully. I think its a good model of how to address secondary ability in the future. Cresceidon was very focused overall. I don't think any stage was weak per se, I probably disagreed most with stats since I think we could have been more generous with our stat limits so a lot of the spreads felt less homogenized. But with our focus, such homogeneity was a likely result. I am glad we ditched Spirit Break, holy shit that move is bad. Discussion was fine overall, and I felt like the process was smooth. We recognized the strengths and faults of Multiscale early and built around that. Compared to Hemogoblin, there wasn't as much doubt about Cresceidon's build which was nice.

What is the main takeaway for you from Cresceidon's process?
We should really stop giving things set-up moves for a while and play with some other design space.
 

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
When I'm not in labor-induced agony I will try to say more about Cresceidon but for the moment I'd like to see Earth Power removed and maybe replaced with a weaker option. Having solid checks in Plasmanta and Mollux is good to have for a rather annoying (but practically so) Pokemon to face but EP makes this relationship way shakier. Mon has too many options IMO especially when Scald/Moon/Twave/Recover is literally all this needs to be good with how flexible stats and ability choice can be.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
Thunder Wave is more important to its toolkit than is Scald. Not that I necessarily advocate for this, but I think you could remove Scald from Cresceidon's movepool and it would function mostly the same. Leveraging Cresceidon's massive speed and turning it into a permanent advantage for its teammates is what Cresceidon does best, and if Cresceidon isn't doing that, it had better using Encore. These two moves in combination with Multiscale especially (but also Rough Skin in lesser ways) are how Cresceidon functions well, and it wouldn't be nearly effective without Cresceidon's speed.

Is Cresceidon's presence in the metagame healthy, or does it disrupt balance? What components of Cresceidon's design contribute to your beliefs the most, and why?
One way I've described Cresceidon is as follows: "it may not necessarily win you the game, but it can definitely make sure you won't lose on the spot." That is, Cresceidon has the tools it needs to stop a lot of runaway sweepers that Generation 9 has to offer. Multiscale + Thunder Wave or Encore on its own is massive, permanently ending Booster Energy Iron Valiant or Tera Flying Roaring Moon from sweeping your team, if played correctly. During process, I recall some worry of not being able to hold Leftovers effectively (due to not being able to cancel Stealth Rock damage with just one tick of Leftovers), and thus having difficulty of being at 100% HP while not losing momentum clicking Recover. However, activating Mulitscale just once or twice in a match can be enough in a SV metagame, and it's fairly easy to be at 100% with Cresceidon's massive speed + Thunder Wave's paralysis chance or Encore's move lock. Combined with Heavy-Duty Boots and the fact that Toxic and Scald are still relatively rare moves in Generation 9, we have a build that honestly wouldn't work in prior generations. It's a very uniquely Generation 9, and I'm really happy that we converged on such an interesting build.

Rough Skin, as expected, punishes passive play and combines very well with Rocky Helmet, changing its counterplay from being better against hyper offense to more balanced compositions. I suspect that Rough Skin will become better as the generation progresses.

What I like most about Cresceidon's final product is that we deliberately excluded stuff like hazard control from its movepool, which would distract Cresceidon from its role as a bulky, fast disruptor.

Do Cresceidon's access to several different matchup-defining utility moves and two major competitive abilities contribute to your stance on its health? Is this worth noting for future processes?
Cresceidon having access to both Multiscale and Rough Skin is well compensated by its effective yet rather limited movepool, which is fairly similar to Equilibra. It uses the same pool of moves for either ability, and neither ability is telegraphed until you attack it, so there is some ambiguity in which ability it's running. Cresceidon's ability can be scouted for directly because it will take some damage in the process, unlike Equilibra's two immunity abilities. Of course, team composition is instrumental for knowing which ability would be preferred for either Pokemon, but it's worth noting here. Also, both abilities play into its role as a bulky, fast disruptor.

tl;dr Cresceidon is such a cohesive product that it was hard to answer the above questions without feeling like I was accidentally answering one of the other questions. Its tools work together perfectly for generation 9 specifically. Any changes in this thread are likely to be minimal from my point of view. Well done!
 

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
oh neat
How did it feel to work with a more defensively-oriented concept? Do you think that we succeeded in exploring the relationship Speed has with defense? What did we learn from attempting it, regardless of if we succeeded?
~~~
What is the main takeaway for you from Cresceidon's process?
Since I started participating in CAP I do not think we've gone a single process where setup-related moves weren't a major consideration we designed around. From the start of this process I was disinterested in setup on a mon that would be bulky and fast, and I'm glad the prevailing consensus came to the same conclusion. I was more surprised to see hazard-related moves ditched, but ultimately I think it was a good call, as we don't have the room for removal or the need to set hazards with our current kit. The only real problem I have with Cresceidon's build is the defensive statline itself. The bulk is just really good even if we weren't as fast as we are, but that isn't to say that our Speed is irrelevant – it most certainly is – it's more of that ideal where our walling potential leaned more heavily on Speed and Typing versus having those defensive stats to carry the weight. Gen 9 is a remarkably powerful metagame, however, so I find the combination of genuinely excellent defensive stats + a fantastic Speed tier to feel sorta natural? Like Cresceidon comes off as the defensive response to all the mercilessly strong offensive mons available this gen, trying to OHKO this thing is a herculean task and if it lives it's gonna do something really annoying back.

It's relieving to see we can make a mon that isn't trying to win the game on its own, but is working to help the rest of the team see things to the end. Especially now it feels like a majority of good defensive mons are also scary late-game threats either because they have some form of setup or simply reach a point where you can't break through them faster than they can wear down your team.

Which of Cresceidon's tools play the biggest role in shaping its relationship with its speed? How effective are they in the context of the metagame?
To nobody's surprised having a fast Recover is a huge benefit, especially with Multiscale as a strong option. It enables Cresceidon to switch in with much greater ease than you otherwise could, and allows Recover to act as a sort of scouting move when PP preservation isn't as much of a concern. Thunder Wave feels better than Encore to me as a fast status move; there are times I wished I were slower when running Encore, while Thunder Wave is just so easy and effective to throw at something that you may as well do so as quickly as possible. Think about when Thundurus was a VGC menace because of 100% accurate Prankster Thunder Wave. It's cheap but getting para off before the opponent can act means they have a 1-in-4 chance of losing their turn immediately which is fantastic on a mon that can run Multiscale. You're not really running TWave for the para chance as much as the Speed drop (i mean, you could), but the opponent has to face the odds regardless.

Is Cresceidon's presence in the metagame healthy, or does it disrupt balance? What components of Cresceidon's design contribute to your beliefs the most, and why?
~~~
Do Cresceidon's access to several different matchup-defining utility moves and two major competitive abilities contribute to your stance on its health? Is this worth noting for future processes?
Gen 9 has fostered an extremely turbulent metagame with the variety of powerful options and high density of strong hazard setters in comparison to the limited methods of removal. Cresceidon stands talls as a Pokemon that forces the opponent to slow the hell down or face the consequences, and as someone who has spent an unholy amount of hours doing the "slow the hell down" thing to people as Engineer in Team Fortress 2, it's a gameplan I really appreciate. You're really good at stopping the opponent's shenanigans but Cresceidon itself isn't exactly great at preserving momentum or forcing immediate progress. It means both players need to think a bit more methodically in how they defeat the other.

Having access to two very strong Abilities and a variety of matchup-dependent moves only reinforces this idea, if you get too comfortable handling Twave sets you'll eventually fall victim to Encore or EP, or maybe you try to bait it in on a U-Turn to break Multiscale only for your Offensive Pivot to lose a third of their HP to Rough Skin + Helmet. At the same time once you do have the set locked down Cresceidon becomes much easier to find a path through.

I mentioned this earlier but I am in favor of axing Earth Power as it flips our bad MUs way too heavily. I think you either use a weaker Special Ground move (yes, I don't like them either) or give Cresceidon EQ + slightly more base Attack? This dude has too little Attack like I know it's irrelevant to the build as-is but damn lmao
 

ausma

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Hi again, thank you all for your patience with me and your fantastic responses.

Out the gate, it's pretty clear to me that most people see Cresceidon as a highly successful and cohesive product, which is incredibly gratifying to hear. It also shows that we hit the mark super well both in terms of the product itself, in our process, and lessons to carry into future processes regarding experimentation around roles and fluidity involved with filling them.

What's also evident to me is that people don't believe Cresceidon is in a position where it needs any buffs, but nerfs aren't particularly too necessary either. Whatever Cresceidon needs in terms of a tweak would mostly be to clean up tenuous aspects of its movepool and try to focus on reducing fringe cheese strategies to better align Cresceidon with a generally focused set of positive and negative MUs that makes use of the dichotomy of its abilities in a consistent yet splashable way. For instance, it seems pretty agreed upon that Earth Power probably needs to go.

Now, what I'd like to do now is briefly talk about the Indigo Disk metagame, how Cresceidon fits into it, and what tools it finds itself wanting to utilize to hone in on its positive matchups. Once we do that, I'm going to open up the floor for packages. Here are a few brief questions:

  • What Pokemon introduced in the Indigo Disk metagame are Cresceidon's defensive utility appreciated against, given what tools Cresceidon has found itself using the most?
  • Have Cresceidon's set options become more or less pressured by these additions, or have its sets been generally unaffected compared to DLC1?
  • Have Cresceidon's bulk and Speed thresholds proven to be too much, too little, or awkward in any way given the newfound Pokemon that Cresceidon has found itself taking on? Have these thresholds lost relevance in any way as a result of Pokemon that lost viability in the Indigo Disk?
  • Are there any Pokemon introduced in the Indigo Disk that Cresceidon loses to that it shouldn't? How about Pokemon that it beats that you wouldn't expect it to based on its typing or tools?

Since this is a bit of a smaller discussion and because a lot of the key points I wanted to get intel on have been discussed at length anyway, I'm going to give this 24 hours. If you want to answer these questions but don't think you can in that time, feel free to reach out and I'm more than fine extending a little bit.
 
I havent been playing too much CAP or mons as a whole recently bc life stuff but i do like yapping so im going to yap and ask that you take what i say with a grain of salt

  • What Pokemon introduced in the Indigo Disk metagame are Cresceidon's defensive utility appreciated against, given what tools Cresceidon has found itself using the most?
    Gouging Fire doesn't like this thing at all. While its bulk and neutrality to Cres's STAB mean Cres is never killing it outright, it can't stand Thunder Wave or Encore and it doesn't have any moves (bar Tera Grass, if that's good) that can put a dent in Cres. I can totally see sub–DD Gouging Fire with enough HP to tank 1 Cresciedon Moonblast becoming a thing (if it already has i apologize again i haven played in a Hot Minute)

    Iron Boulder also doesn't like the existence of Cresciedon. It cannot kill a Cres through Multiscale at +2, crit or not, and risks Thunder Wave paralysis. Cresciedon is a great force against both Gouging Fire and Iron Boulder, especially if they carry a Booster Energy, because Cres can force them out with its utility, removing the Booster Energy effect and leaving them itemless. Therefore, Cres's mere presence on the opponent's team puts pressure on them and makes their switch-in much less free.

    Cres' MU with Assault Vest Archaludon seems like a war of attrition that Cresc ends up winning due to it having Recovery and Multiscale. Cresc isn't going to kill it outright, but repeated Moonblasts will definitely chip it down to KO range for a teammate.



  • Have Cresceidon's set options become more or less pressured by these additions, or have its sets been generally unaffected compared to DLC1?
Earth Power, while still being superfluous IMHO, is a slightly nicer option now since it does more damage to Gouging Fire while also hitting Iron Boulder and Tera Poison Darkrai for SE. Still, don't use Earth Power. Its other options are much more practical.

  • Have Cresceidon's bulk and Speed thresholds proven to be too much, too little, or awkward in any way given the newfound Pokemon that Cresceidon has found itself taking on? Have these thresholds lost relevance in any way as a result of Pokemon that lost viability in the Indigo Disk?
Darkrai being allowed is quite awkward for Cresciedon because they speed tie, and a +2 Life Orb Sludge Bomb is an OHKO if Multiscale is not up or if Darkrai Crits/Teras. Their MU is very RNG-dependent and that may be something worth looking at.
  • Are there any Pokemon introduced in the Indigo Disk that Cresceidon loses to that it shouldn't? How about Pokemon that it beats that you wouldn't expect it to based on its typing or tools?
Watch Out! With Loaded Dice becoming an item in the advent of Generation 9, Cinccino can safely run Technician instead of Skill Link! Additionally, it recieved Tidy Up upon arriving in Generation 9, meaning it has the wonderful role compression of hazard removal AND setup Sweeper! Furthermore, since the first hit of a multi-hit breaks Multiscale, the other four hits are full power, meaning that after a Tidy Up, 5 hits of Bullet Seed from Cinccino OHKOs Cresciedon!1! Oh Good Heavens Me
(+1 252 Atk Technician Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Cresceidon: 405-486 (111.2 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

In all seriousness, barring heavy misplay, it looks to me that Cres loses to everything that it should and checks everything that it should.
 

ausma

token smogon furry
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Top Artistis a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
OU Forum Leader
Alright, it seems that we're all pretty much on the same page here, so we don't have to spend longer here than we have to.

From what I gather from here and on Discord, Cresceidon has fundamentally adapted well to the Indigo Disk, but with a couple of quirks that come from its overlapping Speed tier with Pokemon like Weavile and Darkrai. While the Speed tier has proven to be even more relevant than before with Pokemon like Iron Boulder in the equation and Meowscarada back in action, there are some threshold inconsistencies that maybe could be worth delving into in tandem with the aforementioned movepool cleanup.

Because of how generally agreed upon that Cresceidon's place is and how little people seem to be deviating from what is tenuous and what has proven to be successful in its kit, I'm going to keep things brief here. Packages are now open and will be available to submit for 48 hours as of this post! Here are some brief rules:

1: Do not move the needle too much with your package. Cresceidon has been agreed upon to be quite great in its current state, so any major changes should be outright avoided.

2: Keep the Indigo Disk metagame in mind when designing your package. While we didn't design Cresceidon with these new Pokemon in mind, there are new additions that we have clearly positive and negative matchups into. If you want to accentuate a negative or positive matchup, explain why.

3: If you buff Cresceidon with movepool additions, please provide clear justification for why it should be considered and how it is relevant. Cresceidon is in a good place right now as is, so buffing it to any noteworthy extent is not necessary whatsoever. I will be judging packages that include movepool additions very harshly.

If you have any questions on my standards or want any feedback on your package, don't be afraid to reach out! See you guys shortly!
 

kenn

Prince of the Halidom
is a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
I guess I will go for the elephant in the room:

Proposed Nerf
-1 Speed
-Earth Power


This is a pretty straightforward package as most have mentioned here that Earth Power flips the Plasmanta/Mollux/Electric type MUs a little too much into Cresceidon's favor so this allows Cres to continue doing its thing while not able to bypass these checks as easily in one moveslot. The -1 Speed allows us to still outspeed Meowscarada while underspeeding Weavile (which we win vs. anyways) and Darkrai (who still needs to be at +2 and Tera Poison to KO with Sludge Bomb). We do speedtie Iron Boulder but that is usually running Booster Energy anyways so no real issue with having to win a speed tie.

I think this is the simplest approach to not hurting Cresceidon's viability but also to bring it back to a solid power level.
 

ausma

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By default, kenn's package is the winner. This change was already discussed a good deal on Discord prior to its posting, and its merits discussed previously in the thread. So as such, Cresceidon 2.0 will feature the following changes:

1: Losing access to Earth Power
2: Going from 125 base Speed to 124 base Speed

Thank you all for a great discussion and a truly fantastic project! I'm extremely excited to see Cresceidon at its fullest in the near future.
 
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