Hidden power won't be a prolem for heatran. air ballon means that heatran is immune to fire, poison and ground.
Hope this isn't polljumping since it seems just pretty obvious and sensible, but I should think CAP3 is most likely getting no fighting moves beyond HP Fighting, since we want Tyranitar to threaten CAP3, not the other way around.A physical attacker that outspeeds Heatran just wouldn't be allowed to have Earthquake, Superpower, Low Kick etc, as these would beat offensive Heatran far too easily. If we moderated this by giving CAP 3 a weaker move such as Brick Break, or by not giving it this coverage at all, it wouldn't be able to break through defensive Heatran before it could kill CAP 3 with Earth Power, and that's the type of Heatran that we're supposed to kill!
How do you intend on policing this? Poison is an absolutely terrible offensive typing and the only way you're going to MAKE people use it is by giving this thing no coverage.Most of the offensive spreads have done well on this aspect, and understand the point that as good as CAP 3 will be in Rain, it will be more reliant on Poison STAB and thus neutral hits. Everyone seems to be on track with that.
I wish people would quit with the hyperbole. I'm not going to poll jump here, but basically it's the Electivire principle. It's not that difficult to account for something when you realize "It's Super-Effective!" is not synonymous with a OHKO. Even then, every one of our counters resists Poison-STAB anyway, so we'd be using a coverage move for them. Personally I'm a fan of Special Fighting coverage since half the counters still resist it, and Tyranitar could still take it unless it came in on say Acid Spray (which would be using STAB) and CAP3 followed up with a 70% Acc FocusBlast. Alternatively TTar comes in on Coil and the Acc issue is fixed. In any case, the methodology involved would invariably end up using an element that lends itself to a benefit of Poison STAB or Poison toolkits, etc. Something like Gras Knot would also work. It all really depends on what we want CAP 3 to do. That's all in the future though, and I'll probably have the Attacking Move discussion first to get a handle on that.How do you intend on policing this? Poison is an absolutely terrible offensive typing and the only way you're going to MAKE people use it is by giving this thing no coverage.
It's not a requirement, just something I would prefer. It may end up being irrelevant, nonetheless I've never been a fan of dump stats when they aren't needed. Poison does actually have the tools to get around something like Blissey or whatever without a useful Attack stat.I'm glad you posted Deck, but let's talk about this.
There is no good reason to ask for a minimum of 70 Atk and SpA in order to support gimmick sets that assume a serious polljump in the first place. I also don't think an overwhelming number of calculations is useful in stat spreads at all. We should not be required to have every STAB Psychic-type attack in OU listed against CAP 3 or what-have-you, Scizor's U-turn is doing less than 20% to every spread in this thread, and Politoed and Starmie have so many better things to be doing in OU than running Psychic to beat one Pokemon who, given any stat spread in this thread thus far and its typing, will be relatively simple to handle with modest team editing from standard OU rain teams. If you ever want to talk to someone about how this should actually play out competitively, there are lots of good players in CAP who can help out. Feel free to take advantage of them.
Going to respond to this since it's relevant to a lot of the spreads.The main reason outspeeding Heatran is a problem is it makes offensive sets, which have been designated as counters, too easy to deal with. Unless we make CAP 3 primarily physically offensive, 252 Timid LO Hidden Power Ground is going to OHKO offensive Heatran even with a base 90 Special Attack stat iirc, meaning we can't *not* deal with offensive Heatran without completely handicapping CAP 3 in terms of offense. A physical attacker that outspeeds Heatran just wouldn't be allowed to have Earthquake, Superpower, Low Kick etc, as these would beat offensive Heatran far too easily. If we moderated this by giving CAP 3 a weaker move such as Brick Break, or by not giving it this coverage at all, it wouldn't be able to break through defensive Heatran before it could kill CAP 3 with Earth Power, and that's the type of Heatran that we're supposed to kill!
Submitter - Spread - BSR
skr1214 - 60 / 61 / 140 / 108 / 120 / 71 - 309.62
FlareBlitz - 80 / 60 / 110 / 135 / 110 / 75 - 331.82
Rising_Dusk - 95 / 45 / 83 / 131 / 105 / 76 - 309.37
Scoopapa - 120 / 90 / 65 / 125 / 90 / 60 - 299.42
bugmaniacbob - 110 / 120 / 90 / 110 / 90 / 60 - 325.91
Steamroll - 97 / 64 / 90 / 125 / 105 / 74 - 326.74
Korski - 91 / 60 / 94 / 105 / 116 / 89 - 331.76
That's a good point that I didn't really think of. A CAP3 with between base 78-89 Speed would have to choose between outspeeding stuff like Heatran / Rotom-W or having greater power. Having offensive Heatran remain a check to Modest CAP 3 would probably be good enough so long as we give CAP 3 a reason to use Modest instead. Thus, higher base Speed would help CAP 3 check more threats, but with the consequence of not being able to break through defensive pokemon as much. I think this higher base Speed would help to support greater diversity in CAP 3's roles, so for now I'm going to support Korski.In the end, we WILL warp Heatran's tendencies unless CAP 3 is really slow, but imo it's not a given that CAP 3 will max its Speed just to get past offensive Heatran.
I'm sorry. I'm sure to you guys it looked perfectly fine before, but this makes the chart a lot easier to read to me O_OSlate shortlist:
Code:Submitter - Spread - BSR [U]HP |Atk|Def|SpAt|SpDf|Spd - Total[/U] skr1214 - [U]60 |61 |140|108 |120 | 71 - 309.62[/U] FlareBlitz - [U]80 |60 |110|135 |110 | 75 - 331.82[/U] Rising_Dusk - [U]95 |45 |83 |131 |105 | 76 - 309.37[/U] Scoopapa - [U]120|90 |65 |125 | 90 | 60 - 299.42[/U] bugmaniacbob - [U]110|120|90 |110 | 90 | 60 - 325.91[/U] Steamroll - [U]97 |64 |90 |125 |105 | 74 - 326.74[/U] Korski - [U]91 |60 |94 |105 |116 | 89 - 331.76[/U]
thx fixedSonic, the values in your chart are wrong. For example, this is rising_dusk's submission: 95 HP / 45 Atk / 83 Def / 131 SpA / 105 SpD / 76 Spe
You have it written as: 95 HP/ 45 Atk/ 131 Def/ 83 SpA/ 105 SpD/ 76 Spe
I don't know for certain if this is just in dusk's, but it looks like you mixed up Def and SpA.
I support this set fully. I really like the idea of making it a faster, physically based (offensively), Pokemon. Personally, I dislike the idea of making this Pokemon specially offensive (which is why this is the only stat spread that I support) as it would have a much harder time threatening bulky-waters (unless we give it massive special attack or powerful coverage moves.)Text