I'm going to propose Poison Touch. Because the design, for me atleast, has a Roserade/Victreebel feel to it, I think it looks poisonous. As for competitive value, the ability relies on hax and even then, three of our primary checks (Heatran, Skarmory, and Jirachi) along with a few more unmetioned Steels that may function as checks can't be poisoned. The most harm it can really do is maybe poison an unfortunate non-Steel/Poison check. Also, Poison Touch requires contact, making it useless on Special Attacking sets and also has limited success on Physical sets, depending on the amount of actual contact moves are on the set.
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CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 5 - Flavor Ability Discussion
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
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I personally think we are taking the Non Competitive aspect of this too seriously. It can be slightly competitive, if you ask me. Lets get to the source reason of why we chose NCM: to not sway or influence what move it would use for Sketch. So if you ask me, as long as it doesn't affect what move it uses, why does how competitive an effect is matter? Fore example, not allowing pressure makes sense. It calls for a subseed set. But this is not the case for every effect.
Guys, no one is gonna use SubSeed. Everyone will be too busy sweeping with her ridiculous attack stat. Pressure really isn't uncompetitive, it's just stupid because it doesn't fit flavor at all. Poison Touch seems like the best in terms of flavor to me, though it can be argued that it's kinda competitive.
I still think my initial proposal of Damp is the best.
Why? Is absolutely useless unlike the other abilities.
Stench, for example, now gives the user a chance to flinch with physical attacks if I am not mistaken. You know what that means? Sacred fire with a 50 burn rate and a 10 percent flinch rate. Its too good, IMO.
Cute charm also, is kind of competitive in that it can spam substitue until it activates and/or set up coil/quiver dance until it is attracted, rather like flame body volcarona.
Damp all the way
Why? Is absolutely useless unlike the other abilities.
Stench, for example, now gives the user a chance to flinch with physical attacks if I am not mistaken. You know what that means? Sacred fire with a 50 burn rate and a 10 percent flinch rate. Its too good, IMO.
Cute charm also, is kind of competitive in that it can spam substitue until it activates and/or set up coil/quiver dance until it is attracted, rather like flame body volcarona.
Damp all the way
Damp prevents Aftermath damage.
Friend Guard truely does nothing.
Friend Guard truely does nothing.
Flavor wise, damp is more fit. How many times have you seen aftermath? None
Since the ability is meant to not deter from Sketch's main attraction, im sure we could come up with a good one for her ourselves too. Maybe call it Channeling or Dedication, to go along with the given flavor. It could be something like "this Pokemon's accuracy cannot be modified" which given the lack of accuracy lowering moves, would only hurt Cap2mon in the sense of Hone Claws.
There is an ability called keen eye that does the exact thing.
In CAP, we try to make new things as little as possible, and only when it is absolutely necessary like syclant's mountaineer or the signature moves paleo wave and shadow strike.
Those abilities are rather pointless when keen eye is still here
In CAP, we try to make new things as little as possible, and only when it is absolutely necessary like syclant's mountaineer or the signature moves paleo wave and shadow strike.
Those abilities are rather pointless when keen eye is still here
I have to say I'm a fan of Sticky Hold, Telepathy, Friend Guard, Forewarn.
Sticky Hold and Friend Guard lend to her flavour very well, although Sticky Hold could afford a name change. Sticky Hold offers protection from Trick too, if I'm not wrong, so it's not -completely- useless in battle.
Telepathy and Forewarn are also abilities that reflect on her shrine maiden status and do not offer that much of a competitive edge over the opponent. I'll be happy with these abilities, just not Telepathy and Friend Guard together as that would make her ability naught in singles. :S
Sticky Hold and Friend Guard lend to her flavour very well, although Sticky Hold could afford a name change. Sticky Hold offers protection from Trick too, if I'm not wrong, so it's not -completely- useless in battle.
Telepathy and Forewarn are also abilities that reflect on her shrine maiden status and do not offer that much of a competitive edge over the opponent. I'll be happy with these abilities, just not Telepathy and Friend Guard together as that would make her ability naught in singles. :S
Yilx has spoken. Close the thread ;)
I'm just kidding. I too believe that forewarn is a good choice for the pokemon, as it seems like Yilx doesn't like damp
Damp dosen't offer much for her both in terms of flavour and competitively... she's not a wet miko at all!! That's just strange!
From what I know, the only Explosion users around now are Lickylicky and Metagross, two things that she wouldn't really be switching into.
Asylum_Rhapsody
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For a flytrap Pokemon, there's no doubt in my mind that Arena Trap is the most thematically appropriate ability, but that's clearly a very competitively ability, so I would not dream of seriously suggesting it. Still, it's a flytrap, so I feel like an ability that focuses on that aspect of its visual would be best, and I'm going to go with Gluttony.
Alternatively, the design also looks very spiky and pointy to me, which make me think Iron Barbs or Hyper Cutter, but I'm concerned that those abilities would be too competitive. I also think that the design looks very intimidating and scary, so Intimidate comes to mind; that's definitely too competitive, but something like Anger Point or Unnerve also seem to fit that flavor, though even these may still be too competitive.
I actually also like the idea of focusing on her shrine maiden status and going with a generically psychic-like ability, like Anticipation or Telepathy. Forewarn and Synchronize also fit well in this category but are probably too competitive. Shrine maidens are often supposed to be mediums and channelers, so these fit great despite the Pokemon not being a psychic-type.
I hadn't thought about it, but I actually like the Friend Guard that a lot of people are suggesting, totally useless in single battles and how seriously do we really take double and triple battles? I mean, I personally love double and triple battles, but let's be honest, they're not worth worrying about. I think that it fits the flavor that Yilx wrote very well.
What I really don't like is the suggestion of Cute Charm. It doesn't fit the design at all, and despite being very swingy, its effects can be rather significant when they come up.
Alternatively, the design also looks very spiky and pointy to me, which make me think Iron Barbs or Hyper Cutter, but I'm concerned that those abilities would be too competitive. I also think that the design looks very intimidating and scary, so Intimidate comes to mind; that's definitely too competitive, but something like Anger Point or Unnerve also seem to fit that flavor, though even these may still be too competitive.
I actually also like the idea of focusing on her shrine maiden status and going with a generically psychic-like ability, like Anticipation or Telepathy. Forewarn and Synchronize also fit well in this category but are probably too competitive. Shrine maidens are often supposed to be mediums and channelers, so these fit great despite the Pokemon not being a psychic-type.
I hadn't thought about it, but I actually like the Friend Guard that a lot of people are suggesting, totally useless in single battles and how seriously do we really take double and triple battles? I mean, I personally love double and triple battles, but let's be honest, they're not worth worrying about. I think that it fits the flavor that Yilx wrote very well.
What I really don't like is the suggestion of Cute Charm. It doesn't fit the design at all, and despite being very swingy, its effects can be rather significant when they come up.
I'd like to say that Soundproof is pretty competitive as its prevents Roar from say something like sturdy Donphan and could be used on batonpass chains like seriously people are using things such as Mr.Mime on BP something useful like this would be too much. I think sound proof is really competitive in its own aspects.
@CAPS alt We're not AT ALL choosing competitive abilities. We decided to not give it anything too competitive and more flavor-related.
Look at the design and concept and give it another try.
I'm really for Telepathy. It makes it useful in doubles and is non-competitive in singles. Plus it really fits the concept and design!
Look at the design and concept and give it another try.
I'm really for Telepathy. It makes it useful in doubles and is non-competitive in singles. Plus it really fits the concept and design!
Can I just say that choosing an ability here shouldn't be done with the secret intention of making use of it. An argument like 'it only needs to be negligibly competitive!' doesn't mean that you should be excluding abilities that are entirely non-competitive. We're choosing based on flavour. If Telepathy and Honey Gather are the most flavourful abilties for the CAP (I mean, if it were objective), then it should get them. You shouldn't be lamenting Forewarn because you're sad it 'won't have an ability to use', because using an ability is exactly what we're trying to avoid with NCA. Please don't propose an ability for the wrong reasons, it's flavour first here.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that whenever I read a post that even remotely refers to competitive situations when supporting an ability, I just want to disregard it entirely. Read Gregar's post below mine for an extreme example of this.
Honestly, I don't really like Sticky Hold because the reasoning for it is based off of a creative interpretation of an ability that is supposed to be taken literally. Like, all the pokemon that have Sticky Hold are actually sticky. Its international names refer to glue and adhesives. Being unable to let go because something is trapped in your ooze is a little different to being unable to let go because you're a possessive monster, and Waiflower is hardly oozing glue. Honestly, if Yilx himself is against Damp because 'she's not a wet miko!' then I don't think he should be advocating Sticky Hold, but iunno.
also reachzero's reasoning against Cute Charm is silly. I count a total of eleven mons in OU (Dnite, Conk, Rachi, Haxorus, Skarm, Mence, Ttar, Ape, Gyara, Scizor, Scrafty) that are ever using contact moves against Waiflower, and Haxorus wants the rivalry boost against exactly none of them (maybe Conk or Scrafty). And does nobody remember the extreme downside of Rivalry? Gender is impossible to predict. Cute Charm is among the least competitive of abilities on RD's list.
Anyway, I am totally all for Unnerve if RD thinks its negibly competitive. I still think it probably is a bit too competitive to be an NCA, but in terms of flavour I think it's one of the best :) she's pretty darn unnerving. I also still quite like Anger Point, Cute Charm and Telepathy. Anger Point because yandere, Cute Charm because luring prey is win for a flytrap and she's still a cute girl, and Telepathy because she's a psychic channeler.
Feel free to disagree :D
Basically what I'm trying to say is that whenever I read a post that even remotely refers to competitive situations when supporting an ability, I just want to disregard it entirely. Read Gregar's post below mine for an extreme example of this.
Honestly, I don't really like Sticky Hold because the reasoning for it is based off of a creative interpretation of an ability that is supposed to be taken literally. Like, all the pokemon that have Sticky Hold are actually sticky. Its international names refer to glue and adhesives. Being unable to let go because something is trapped in your ooze is a little different to being unable to let go because you're a possessive monster, and Waiflower is hardly oozing glue. Honestly, if Yilx himself is against Damp because 'she's not a wet miko!' then I don't think he should be advocating Sticky Hold, but iunno.
also reachzero's reasoning against Cute Charm is silly. I count a total of eleven mons in OU (Dnite, Conk, Rachi, Haxorus, Skarm, Mence, Ttar, Ape, Gyara, Scizor, Scrafty) that are ever using contact moves against Waiflower, and Haxorus wants the rivalry boost against exactly none of them (maybe Conk or Scrafty). And does nobody remember the extreme downside of Rivalry? Gender is impossible to predict. Cute Charm is among the least competitive of abilities on RD's list.
Anyway, I am totally all for Unnerve if RD thinks its negibly competitive. I still think it probably is a bit too competitive to be an NCA, but in terms of flavour I think it's one of the best :) she's pretty darn unnerving. I also still quite like Anger Point, Cute Charm and Telepathy. Anger Point because yandere, Cute Charm because luring prey is win for a flytrap and she's still a cute girl, and Telepathy because she's a psychic channeler.
Feel free to disagree :D
I'd like to put my full support behind Forewarn, it really suits the concept with the channeling ability described in Yilx's description and highlights, more so, how this pokemon is able to learn sketch. I think that's something to keep in mind regarding it's flavour. It's not completely competitive either, giving advantages mostly over itself and a means to figure out the opposing sketchmons moveset. Is this a big enough deal to rule it out?
I went through the list in the OP and read the feelings of the people in the thread, and I do think that the list in the OP gives some cool options, but also some that are immediatly disqualified because of CAP2's type. These are:
Big Pecks+Tangled Feet: Only Flying-type pokémon. Spinda gets tangled feet, but it has a special link wiht confusion.
Heavy Metal+Light Metal: There's no metal on CaP2
Liquid Ooze: Only Poison-type pokémon, but I can see a rotten plant do it.
Magma Armor: Fire-types only.
Minus+Plus: Only for electrics or Klinklang
Swarm: Bug-type only.
Torrent: Water-type only.
This leaves CaP with:
From this list there's a lot that makes sense, but I don't want to give it Damp in a metagame where noone uses explosion anymore. It can't be a competetive ability, but it doens't have to be useless. That's why I would like to propose Pressure, Cute Charm, Unnerve and Sticky Hold.
These are some abilities that are situational and not overpowered.
-Sticky Hold safeguards it from a Lati@s trick or the occasional Knock Off.
-Flavour reason: it's a plant. Plants are sticky. And Flytraps hold stuff really well.
-Unnerve is good for anything that uses a Lum Berry or maybe Chople Berry Tyranitar.
-Flavour reason: It's a dead plant that channels dead spirits. Does anyone disagree that Unnerve is the best flavourwise?
-Cute Charm is more annoying than dangerous and fits the flavour very well.
-Flavour reason: It's a girly pokémon, so it fits the others that get this ability, and it's a plantchick that could lure you in and then eat you.
-Pressure might be a little too good, but it's an ability that has been given to ghosts before and isn't super dangerous, but can be used to pressure stall Choiced pokémon or low PP moves, like Politoed/Rotom=W Hydropumps.
-Flavour reason: As a scary ghost, it puts on pressure. Dusknoir is also a channeling ghost and also has pressure, it's consistent.
Overall, I am not yet decided, but I feel that these four could fit the flavour and have at least some use for play.
Big Pecks+Tangled Feet: Only Flying-type pokémon. Spinda gets tangled feet, but it has a special link wiht confusion.
Heavy Metal+Light Metal: There's no metal on CaP2
Liquid Ooze: Only Poison-type pokémon, but I can see a rotten plant do it.
Magma Armor: Fire-types only.
Minus+Plus: Only for electrics or Klinklang
Swarm: Bug-type only.
Torrent: Water-type only.
This leaves CaP with:
Anticipation
Cute Charm
Damp
Forewarn
Friend Guard
Gluttony
Healer
Honey Gather
Illuminate
Infiltrator
Keen Eye
Moody*
Oblivious
Own Tempo
Pickup
Pressure
Run Away
Soundproof
Sticky Hold
Telepathy
Unnerve
Cute Charm
Damp
Forewarn
Friend Guard
Gluttony
Healer
Honey Gather
Illuminate
Infiltrator
Keen Eye
Moody*
Oblivious
Own Tempo
Pickup
Pressure
Run Away
Soundproof
Sticky Hold
Telepathy
Unnerve
From this list there's a lot that makes sense, but I don't want to give it Damp in a metagame where noone uses explosion anymore. It can't be a competetive ability, but it doens't have to be useless. That's why I would like to propose Pressure, Cute Charm, Unnerve and Sticky Hold.
These are some abilities that are situational and not overpowered.
-Sticky Hold safeguards it from a Lati@s trick or the occasional Knock Off.
-Flavour reason: it's a plant. Plants are sticky. And Flytraps hold stuff really well.
-Unnerve is good for anything that uses a Lum Berry or maybe Chople Berry Tyranitar.
-Flavour reason: It's a dead plant that channels dead spirits. Does anyone disagree that Unnerve is the best flavourwise?
-Cute Charm is more annoying than dangerous and fits the flavour very well.
-Flavour reason: It's a girly pokémon, so it fits the others that get this ability, and it's a plantchick that could lure you in and then eat you.
-Pressure might be a little too good, but it's an ability that has been given to ghosts before and isn't super dangerous, but can be used to pressure stall Choiced pokémon or low PP moves, like Politoed/Rotom=W Hydropumps.
-Flavour reason: As a scary ghost, it puts on pressure. Dusknoir is also a channeling ghost and also has pressure, it's consistent.
Overall, I am not yet decided, but I feel that these four could fit the flavour and have at least some use for play.
Liquid Ooze is easily my favourite to go with the flytrap miko. Pitcher plants and similar insect traps typically are filled with digestive liquids, it seems to fit the flavour perfectly, while thanks to its typing it can only affect attacks one will never see: the low-powered bug sapping attacks.
Cute Charm honestly feels like it could be a nuisance to face, though a lot of attacks that would be used against flytrap miko from its designated counters are special and many Pokémon come in the female / genderless variant anyway (mono-gender so cool). 30% chance to infatuate is a lot. It seems like a bad ability because nothing good but Clefable has it, and that has Magic Guard, which makes Cute Charm pale in comparison. It's not the best ability, no, but I don't think it's useless at all. Compare it to Flame Body, which most notably is found on Volcarona. The difference between burn and infatuation, especially on a Pokémon that is weak to things like Stone Edge, is considerable, but Flame Body certainly activates enough to be more than just a clutch situational thing. Infatuation gives you a 50% chance of not moving, which makes it a very nasty effect. The reason it isn't used isn't because it's horrible. You can switch out of it, but the main reasons it's not used is because the main way to induce it is Attract and it relies on gender. If it could be passively induced, it would be a genuinely annoying thing and make contact moves less viable against it. That is bad because this Pokémon's weaker side is Defense, many good boosting moves boost SpD and not Def, and many contact moves are physical. Also don't like Anger Point much for the same reason, since this Pokémon has a lot of resistances and won't die to a stray breeze. It does fit the yandere flavour amazingly though, which I like.
Am I saying these are great abilities on par with Trace, Magic Guard, Immunity, etc.? Nope. They're not great abilities, but they do offer more utility than I feel is fair for NCA.
I like Liquid Ooze and Sticky Hold a lot. They definitely match the design of the Pokémon. I think Liquid Ooze is probably my favourite because its effect is absolutely negligible but not a completely useless ability like Honey Gather. Sticky Hold has too much utility imo, though it could encourage the use of defensive sets while not making it too overpowered.
Am I saying these are great abilities on par with Trace, Magic Guard, Immunity, etc.? Nope. They're not great abilities, but they do offer more utility than I feel is fair for NCA.
I like Liquid Ooze and Sticky Hold a lot. They definitely match the design of the Pokémon. I think Liquid Ooze is probably my favourite because its effect is absolutely negligible but not a completely useless ability like Honey Gather. Sticky Hold has too much utility imo, though it could encourage the use of defensive sets while not making it too overpowered.
I'm going to throw my support behind Unnerve, purely flavour-wise. I don't really like Cute Charm or Liquid Ooze, simply because I don't think CAP2 lends itself to either. If any Grass mon would get Liquid Ooze, it would be Victreebel (the pitcher plant), but it doesn't, even though it's a Poison-type as well. If I have to stick my neck out for another ability, I'll say Friend Guard for all the reasons said before, but I do prefer Unnerve.
These three I completely agree with. They all fit the flavor of a Yandere Waiflower that channels the dead, and they don't place competitive intents before simply making sense for it to have said ability. Nothing else really fits without making it just an extra niche or needing a name change. Period.
That's not to say we can't make its DW ability interesting though, right?
I'm not sure I like Friend Guard. It's quasi-signature (in that it's limited to very similar Pokémon, i.e. NFE Normal-type fairies) and we can't be sure of its actual flavour implications. I think it's a lot more than just some aspect of personality.
I agree with Spork on Sticky Hold. Liquid Ooze is a bit better, but I only see "Final Fantasy logic" to support it.
I initially didn't like Telepathy because I viewed it as a "selfish" ability that didn't suit the design, but I've since warmed up to it.
I actually like that Yilx posted because it gives a good grounding other than the TL's for the actual flavour of the CAP. The trollier abilities that exaggerated the "yandere" nature of the design seem impossible to justify now. I'm still going to try and gun for Unnerve, though, since I think it's the least trolly of them all by far. I also like Forewarn, as I said before.
Cute Charm will die in a fire the way Big Pecks Tomohawk did. I swear it ;)
I agree with Spork on Sticky Hold. Liquid Ooze is a bit better, but I only see "Final Fantasy logic" to support it.
I initially didn't like Telepathy because I viewed it as a "selfish" ability that didn't suit the design, but I've since warmed up to it.
I actually like that Yilx posted because it gives a good grounding other than the TL's for the actual flavour of the CAP. The trollier abilities that exaggerated the "yandere" nature of the design seem impossible to justify now. I'm still going to try and gun for Unnerve, though, since I think it's the least trolly of them all by far. I also like Forewarn, as I said before.
Cute Charm will die in a fire the way Big Pecks Tomohawk did. I swear it ;)
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