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CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 9 - Art Poll 3
- Thread starter Fuzznip
- Start date
- Status
DougJustDoug in by 52%. My favorite design is basically a shoe in.
I'll have to say that while I liked Aragornbird's, it didn't really feel like a Pokékmon to me.
And Kukem's just felt like it rolled out of a Sonic game.
I'll have to say that while I liked Aragornbird's, it didn't really feel like a Pokékmon to me.
And Kukem's just felt like it rolled out of a Sonic game.
This.
Doug's design does not scream Fighting/Dark type to me and makes absolutely no sense with the stat spread we selected (110 base Speed, for crying out loud!). I am at a complete loss here trying to understand why this design is the most popular thus far.
Kukem's design makes the most sense of the three with all the information we currently have about CAP 11 and frankly looks the coolest.
I voted for Kukem. DougJustDoug's Pokemon looks like a Ghost type along the lines of Shuppet and Banette rather than a Dark type, and it being a doll suggests the Normal type as well. The eyes don't look like Pokemon eyes, and it looks too bulky, slow, and Physical to fit the stat spread. In fact, it's almost the exact opposite of the stat spread. Kukem's submission, on the other hand, captures both types very well. It looks like it conducts electricity and is Specially based.
Wyverii basically said what I was going to say. While Kukem's design does fit extremely well into the stat spread, even having a bigass armoured collar thingy to explain the Arcanine-like defenses, the design just felt really overdone. It looks like a cross between a ninja and a fighter jet, which doesn't really sit well with me. Plus, while I try to avoid making "it looks like [type]" arguments, it doesn't really look like a Dark-type to me. aragornbird design also seemed lacking somehow. Maybe it's because of the lateness of the entry...
That said, I'm voting for DougJustDoug. Honestly, I don't get the complaint that it looks like a Ghost-type (there's technically nothing undead about it <.<) (yeah, there's Banette, but this is a magic-infused doll, not a haunted one) or that it doesn't look like a Fighting-type (seriously, all you really need to do to make a Fighting-type is to make it look angry and give it large feet/fists). Another thing that people need to realize is that 105 base SpA isn't all that amazing art-wise. You don't see Sceptile or Mismagius give off the vibe of a great special attacker. The last complaint I'm seeing is against the Speed factor. Admittedly, this drew me away from the design last time, but honestly, this is the least evil out of all the "issues" that I've seen with the designs. Plus, Doug's design is supposed to be of a cursed doll. It's not that much of a stretch.
That said, I'm voting for DougJustDoug. Honestly, I don't get the complaint that it looks like a Ghost-type (there's technically nothing undead about it <.<) (yeah, there's Banette, but this is a magic-infused doll, not a haunted one) or that it doesn't look like a Fighting-type (seriously, all you really need to do to make a Fighting-type is to make it look angry and give it large feet/fists). Another thing that people need to realize is that 105 base SpA isn't all that amazing art-wise. You don't see Sceptile or Mismagius give off the vibe of a great special attacker. The last complaint I'm seeing is against the Speed factor. Admittedly, this drew me away from the design last time, but honestly, this is the least evil out of all the "issues" that I've seen with the designs. Plus, Doug's design is supposed to be of a cursed doll. It's not that much of a stretch.
great entries, kukem and aragorn (also wanna give a shout to yilx) but doug has got this. i would probably have voted for kukem had we not had the secondary ability poll, but doug's is the only one that can represent a lightning rod at all.
or if you want, you can choose to believe i voted for doug because i'm a troll since apparently that's what some people think
or if you want, you can choose to believe i voted for doug because i'm a troll since apparently that's what some people think
I went for Kukem, as although I initially thought that DJD's would be the one, Kukem's fits the typing and stats better, albeit with a little less personality.
I'm very disappointed that Yilx lost, but I think the design we're looking for right now is Kukem's. It's cool, it's fitting, and it looks like a defender of justice, something Togekiss could easily find itself partnering up with.
Think about it, doesn't this dude look pretty cool riding on Togekiss's back? It can be gliding across the night sky when it sees a Blissey or Ttar, then CAP11 can just jump off and punch it in the face. I'm really loving that mental image. This is the kind of stuff offensive duos are made of.
I think Doug's idea is way too eccentric and it isn't something I can see riding along with Togekiss. The panther doesn't look very cool to me either. Sorry, guys.
Think about it, doesn't this dude look pretty cool riding on Togekiss's back? It can be gliding across the night sky when it sees a Blissey or Ttar, then CAP11 can just jump off and punch it in the face. I'm really loving that mental image. This is the kind of stuff offensive duos are made of.
I think Doug's idea is way too eccentric and it isn't something I can see riding along with Togekiss. The panther doesn't look very cool to me either. Sorry, guys.
I wish there were less posts like this in the thread. "Here's my opinion, and I'm not going to actually refer to anything specific in the designs to justify it" seems to be the popular thing to say. Grats on your postcount++, everyone.
I voted for DougJustDoug, although Kukem's design is well done, and I applaud his artistic credibility.
Why it resembles a fighting pokemon: Look at the right (our left) hand, that is the shape of a boxing glove, which is a pretty straightforward fighting symbol. It has been used since generation one to resemble fighting since Hitmonchan. The brown color scheme is also a notable fighting-type correspondence, similar to Hitmon(x), Primeape, and Hariyama, as well as being in the neighborhood of the fighting icon itself. It's an extremely important color choice that Kukem's design does not incorporate that defines the voodoo doll as a primary fighting type. What I mean by this is that of the colors themselves, Kukem's design suggests that it is more of a dark primary, where Doug's suggests fighting primary, which is not important in terms of battling, but very important in terms of flavor.
Why it resembles a dark pokemon: There is a dark color scheme that many dark pokemon take advantage of that is not primary. With the dark brown eye buttons, the darker brown stitching, it takes upon the brown that is there that I have shown represents fighting, and makes it darker. This is why it succeeds in representing both types. This is similar to Drapion's purple poison color, along with a darker purple stripe-like pattern, which easily illustrates its poison/dark type.
Before anyone tries to yell at me saying "hey, dude, Machamp is gray and it's fighting, and Poliwrath is blue! So is Lucario!" - shame on you, that is a strawman argument. Secondly, I don't know what is up with Lucario's typing, but whatever, it's a great pokemon.
Moving on, the stats. Oh, the stats.
Special: This one doesn't have to make sense. It's magic. Magic, in the pokemon universe. It's pretty easy to allow.
Physical: Boxing glove shaped fist suggests physical capabilities as well as being able to shape its fists into anything it wants. Therefore, it looks physically potent, but not over the top like Machamp.
Speed: It's a doll, how heavy can it be? Look at Electrode. I would bet a lot of people would say that a simple ball shouldn't have 130 speed but here we are.
Defenses: This is the only problem I've found. The BSRs suggested average defenses, and a doll doesn't quite fit that argument. It is arguable, though, that since it is a fighting type, it should be more durable than a normal doll, like a dummy, so I let it slide.
See, that wasn't so hard.
-Reason for Doug's over Kukem: It can more easily fit its abilities upon first glance.
Anyways, I like all three designs (I can see Dark secondarily in AragornBird's design, love the Shadow the Hedgehog look of Kukem's entry, and BTW Miltank gets base 100 speed so what are we caring about Voodoom seemingly being slow?) but I picked Aragornbird, simply because I like the idea of a badass Mayan panther. And come on, people: Panthers are fast and agile creatures, the gold could be used as armor, and it DOES look like it could have high special attack while also looking like it could have decent attack. Oh, and gold conducts electricity. So yeah.
@ House: Dude, we don't have to post epic walls just to tell people what we think of the designs. All he really said was that it doesn't make a lot of sense with the information we're given on the Pokemon and I have to say, I agree. That's a perfectly valid reason for voting one thing over another. What if we had a Water type on our hands, but one of the designers decided to create a feudal era samurai? I'd vote for the design that falls more in line with everything we've established so far for a more consummate product.
I'm confused at how you don't get dark from a panther with red eyes or fighting from a ninja.
I've never really been a great fan of Kukem's and I'm finding Doug's is losing its appeal for me. Conversely, the more I look at Aragornbird's the more I like it.
Personally, I don't really get the "this doesn't look like [type]" argument at all. Each artist interpreted the typing how he/she wanted, and I would say that every one of these designs achieved that at least somewhat. Every single one. That's why the Water-type samurai analogy is, quite frankly, completely missing the point. Even my type argument against Kukem was admittedly more of a lazy afterthought than anything else. Stat spread consistency is a much bigger issue, probably because the stat spreads are decided after the art submissions open up.
I also don't get why CAP 11 has to "coexist" with Togekiss. In case you guys haven't noticed, most competitive pairings have nothing to do with each other, and most even seem opposite. Blissey is a nurse, while Skarmory has the kind of Pokédex descriptions befitting a hardened soldier. Celebi dwells in forests rich with life, whereas Heatran lives in one of the most uninhabitable environments possible, a volcano. Tyranitar goes on landscape-altering rampages, while Lucario lives on honing and controlling its powers. Gliscor and Vaporeon have basically no connection to each other. So I don't see any particular reason for Togekiss and CAP 11 to have any level of connection other than maybe really subtle ones.
Doug's design takes an unorthodox typing and manages to come up with a simple yet completely original concept. Doug has laid out exactly where he is going with the art and has executed it extremely well. I believe that this is why the design is the clear favourite over the other two.
I also don't get why CAP 11 has to "coexist" with Togekiss. In case you guys haven't noticed, most competitive pairings have nothing to do with each other, and most even seem opposite. Blissey is a nurse, while Skarmory has the kind of Pokédex descriptions befitting a hardened soldier. Celebi dwells in forests rich with life, whereas Heatran lives in one of the most uninhabitable environments possible, a volcano. Tyranitar goes on landscape-altering rampages, while Lucario lives on honing and controlling its powers. Gliscor and Vaporeon have basically no connection to each other. So I don't see any particular reason for Togekiss and CAP 11 to have any level of connection other than maybe really subtle ones.
Doug's design takes an unorthodox typing and manages to come up with a simple yet completely original concept. Doug has laid out exactly where he is going with the art and has executed it extremely well. I believe that this is why the design is the clear favourite over the other two.
I dont think people who denies DJD's design because it doesnt look fast have the example to support their opinion. Yes, Voodoll's legs are short and It looks more bulky if anything. But hey lets look at some fast pokes
Electrode=Besides rolling, how could this thing be fast? It doesnt even have legs!
Starmie: Whut? It thought starfish were usually motionless.
Miltank: Legs even shorter than Voodoll's and be serious, did you ever see a cow actually run?
Slaking: ???
Okay, I have to concede that most fast pokemon look thin and Dynamic, but that aspect can easily be explained through flavor aspects, like electricity circuling through its body making his nerves and muscles really active, or that it can move mithout moving his legs, like levitating somehow and going real fast.
My point is, small aspects like these cannot be the sole reason to disqualify a great entry. Voodoll (or whatever its name will be) is in my honest opinion, the best design DJD ever made, and for all the reasons mentionned above, it easily grab my vote. For picky users:
Voted DougJustDoug
EDIT: I just realized all my arguments has already been said, so sorry. =/
Electrode=Besides rolling, how could this thing be fast? It doesnt even have legs!
Starmie: Whut? It thought starfish were usually motionless.
Miltank: Legs even shorter than Voodoll's and be serious, did you ever see a cow actually run?
Slaking: ???
Okay, I have to concede that most fast pokemon look thin and Dynamic, but that aspect can easily be explained through flavor aspects, like electricity circuling through its body making his nerves and muscles really active, or that it can move mithout moving his legs, like levitating somehow and going real fast.
My point is, small aspects like these cannot be the sole reason to disqualify a great entry. Voodoll (or whatever its name will be) is in my honest opinion, the best design DJD ever made, and for all the reasons mentionned above, it easily grab my vote. For picky users:
Voted DougJustDoug
EDIT: I just realized all my arguments has already been said, so sorry. =/
DougJustDoug for reasons already stated by me or others in this or previous threads.
not really surprised by the top 3 either, lol.
not really surprised by the top 3 either, lol.
If you're not going to vote for aragornbird's because it doesn't look "dark" enough or Doug's because it doesn't look fast enough, then you should also consider the fact that Kukem's submission doesn't really incorporate Lightning Rod or Volt Absorb in it's design.
Doug's design reminds me of a mystic punching bag. After countless beatings (and a little help a la Frankenstein), the punching bag decides to punch back. Punching bags remind me of fighting, and punching bags that shoot lasers out of the needle in it's heart is pretty darn cool, imo.
I also don't really see how a voodoo doll is more ghost-like, considering voodoo magic in general involves a living person controlling another living person.
Doug's design reminds me of a mystic punching bag. After countless beatings (and a little help a la Frankenstein), the punching bag decides to punch back. Punching bags remind me of fighting, and punching bags that shoot lasers out of the needle in it's heart is pretty darn cool, imo.
I also don't really see how a voodoo doll is more ghost-like, considering voodoo magic in general involves a living person controlling another living person.
If you look at Kukem's supporting art, it looks like the red orbs in his hands would be where he absorbs electricity and where his special attacks emanate from. Even though the giant needle poking out of the voodoo doll is more obvious as to how Volt Abosrb fits, Kukem just feels more right to me. Aragornbird's would be my second favorite of the three, I suppose.
I would also like to point out that Fuzznip, the TL and person in charge of what this CAP is supposed to be like, also voted for Kukem's design.
Not that that in itself is a reason to vote it, though. The art selection process is pretty subjective.
Pokemon like Gengar, Starmie, Tentacruel, Miltank etc. Don't like they'd be fast and they still fit the bill. Shiftry also doesn't even remotely look like a dark type. Doug's design may not scream fighting/dark type, but that doesn't mean it can't pull it off. And Kukem's design can't explain lightning rod/volt absorb. At least Doug's has metal in it.
Kukem's design is by far the best. It demonstrates Fighting/Dark perfectly, as well as the stat spread. Also, it is the only one that I can actually picture as a Pokemon... The other entries, cool as they may be, don't really look Pokemon-ish.
Sure, Doug's design is creative, but is that reason alone to vote for it? It looks like it has paperthin defenses, awful speed, and nothing like the Fighting or Dark type. The only things it has is its great design and fits in with the abilities it's supposed to have. The other two apso fit in with the abilities, and Kukem's and AB's designs are fantastic as well.
Sure, Doug's design is creative, but is that reason alone to vote for it? It looks like it has paperthin defenses, awful speed, and nothing like the Fighting or Dark type. The only things it has is its great design and fits in with the abilities it's supposed to have. The other two apso fit in with the abilities, and Kukem's and AB's designs are fantastic as well.
Cap11 is fighting/dark with volt absorb and lightning rod, i think matching it's looks to stats is pretty low on the "pokemon reality" list.
Anyway, i did Vote DJD because of the originalitly, it really made it stand out.
Anyway, i did Vote DJD because of the originalitly, it really made it stand out.
If the art isn't a massive part of the project at its core, then to be honest I'm just going to vote for the one that I like the most....as long as it fits the typing. And personally, I think aragorn's has enough Fighting and Dark in it to work (at least, it looks more Dark than Shiftry or Crawdaunt). Plus, it's a freaking panther. That can fire energy blasts. It doesn't get much more epic than that.
Though I am a fan of Doug's voodoo concept. If I were putting it in a game rather than a competitive project, I'd love putting together a moveset for the thing (and I'll still try, it'll just lose a lot of quality points once I hit the TMs and stuff). Kukem's probably does fit the concept best, but to me it's the least impressive as a pure design....and not being the most competitively minded person out there, the design is my favorite part of the pokemon. So I voted for the panther even though it doesn't look like it's going to pull off the win, but I'd still be satisfied if Doug's won, too.
Though I am a fan of Doug's voodoo concept. If I were putting it in a game rather than a competitive project, I'd love putting together a moveset for the thing (and I'll still try, it'll just lose a lot of quality points once I hit the TMs and stuff). Kukem's probably does fit the concept best, but to me it's the least impressive as a pure design....and not being the most competitively minded person out there, the design is my favorite part of the pokemon. So I voted for the panther even though it doesn't look like it's going to pull off the win, but I'd still be satisfied if Doug's won, too.
Where is Aragornbird's love? That armored panther is insanely cool (though kinda psychic type).
Also why does everyone like the voodoo doll so much? It creeps me out o_O. I would pick Kukem over it...
Sorry DJD.
Also why does everyone like the voodoo doll so much? It creeps me out o_O. I would pick Kukem over it...
Sorry DJD.
@ Cape: There is no "valid reasoning" when you're voting for something based on appearance. Personal preference is not based on logic and reasoning, it's entirely arbitrary and subject to the mere whims of the person in question. Everyone should be allowed to express the idea behind their vote on whichever basis they please, save for the "not a Pokemon" bit outlined in the rules.
You might think that they all look like Fighting/Dark types but others don't. You may believe that they don't necessarily have to look like they belong together, but for others, even appearance is ideal in a partnership. There's no way to debate that.
You might think that they all look like Fighting/Dark types but others don't. You may believe that they don't necessarily have to look like they belong together, but for others, even appearance is ideal in a partnership. There's no way to debate that.
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