CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 5b - Ability Poll

[beej]

Vote on what will be CAP10's primary ability. Your choices include:

Filter/Solid Rock - Whenever a move is used on this Pokémon that is super effective, the damage is decreased by 1/4.

Intimidate - Lowers the opponent's Attack stat by one stage (original stat divided by 1.5) upon switching in.

Magic Guard - Makes the Pokemon immune to indirect damage (status-related damage, entry hazards, weather, Leech Seed and Life Orb recoil).

Trace - Copies the ability of the foe upon switching in.

The only controversial ability for me in that other thread was Download, which I ultimately felt was too effective in making this Pokemon offensively viable. A Pokemon with base 105 Speed and Download has too much of an incentive to run Specs/Band and Life Orb sets that are capable of dealing loads of damage to a wide variety of threats in the metagame at once. For these reasons, I felt that the cons for including it outweighed the pros.

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Utility Counter
General Description: This Pokemon is capable of being customized to counter virtually any specific Pokemon, but is incapable of countering a large number of Pokemon at the same time.
Justification: It is not unusual for people to say that "versatility is broken" from an offensive standpoint; less attention is given to versatile defensive Pokemon such as Zapdos or Hariyama. This Pokemon would allow us to study the impact of having a Pokemon that is capable of dealing with such varied threats as Salamence, Lucario, and Gengar....but not all at once.
Questions To Be Answered:
--How useful is defensive versatility in a metagame with so many different threats to account for?
--Given the existence of a Pokemon that can hard counter only specific major threats, which threats will be prepared for the most?
--How would team building change if certain difficult-to-prepare-for threats became easier to prepare for?
--Which is more useful, a Pokemon that can somewhat handle a wide range of threats, or a Pokemon that can handle a few threats extremely well?

Typing: Water/Electric
Stat Spread: 151/84/73/83/74/105

• As always, your posts MUST have substance to them. No "I voted for x" posts. This is a discussion thread.

 

[Paradox]

Darn, locked right before I posted this:

My thoughts on Trace:
I think trace is a pretty cool idea, and very utility. However, I'm not sure how "necessary" this ability is. Most pokemon that are countered by Trace are already countered pretty well if sets are tailored appropriately. Specifically:

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Gyarados/Salamence - Intimidate:
This isn't really needed, as the spread will survive an unboosted EQ, and both pokemon can be OHKOd by Thunderbolt and Ice Beam respectively. Choice scarf would be necessary to avoid been outsped and hit by a boosted EQ, but thats the idea behind a utility counter. With intimidate, you can just run a cookie cutter set that counters these two plus a bunch of other pokemon.

Heatran - Flash Fire
As has been said before, Fire Blast isn't killing the CaP anyways, so Heatran's main threat will be Earth Power, Toxic, or Roar. I also don't like how the ability makes CaP 10 completely immune to Fire-Blast locked Heatrans - When it counters pokemon, it should lose a chunk of health in doing so, that way it can't counter more pokemon.

Flygon - Levitate
I'm not sure how much Flygon's Choiced and Scarfed Earthquakes do respectively, but you probably won't be switching into a Flygon right off the bat anyways, as there's a pretty good chance that it will just U-Turn, weakening and revealing you're utility counter. Levitate is pretty useless against the other pokemon that have it, like Rotom-A

Electivire - Motor Drive
Really? Well I guess an expert belt EQ could hit pretty hard, but I'm sure with proper adjustments CaP 10 would have no problem beating it. Extra speed wouldn't help much anyways, just the electric immunity.

Natural Cure - (Blissey/Roserade/Starmie/Celebi)
This isn't that helpful for Starmie, and it'd be useless to switch out of Roserade-Induced Sleep (then roserade could just sleep something else). It's not great against Blissey, as you'd have to keep switching out if you were threatened by toxic, and then you'd just be racking up entry hazard damage. It has some merit agains Thunder Waves from celebi or blissey, but you still have to switch out to make use of it, and then you're not countering the pokemon at all.

Volt/Water Absorb - Jolt/Vaporeon
I don't think that these pokemon will be that difficult to beat anyways. Vaporeons main threat is Roar or just being allowed to continue to support with wish (taunt could help here). Jolteon could hit pretty hard (I'm not sure how hard) with a specs thunderbolt, but i still don't think it'd be to tough to counter.

Those are pretty much all of the useful abilities to trace.
Gliscor's Sand Veil could give you a lucky miss on an EQ, Serene Grace could make Stab Thunderbolts/Waterfalls even more annoying, etc. But they aren't reliable or related to the concept. Speed Boost would just help sweep.

Anyways I think that I've made my point, and I don't really think Trace does enough for the concept to be used. It helps counter certain pokemon better, but its not needed to counter these pokemon, and I believe that the weaker CaP comes out of each countering, the more it fulfills its concept. I for one currently only support Filter/Solid Rock, as you can come out of those EQs, Seed Bombs, and Leaf Storms a little safer.

Hopefully someone reads this...

 

[familyguyman]

Going with Trace. A customizable utility counter should logically have a variable ability to help tailor it's focus. Trace is the only option that helps do this.

 

[Rhys29]

Trace embodies what a utility counter is. I see no reason for voting anything else when we have this option.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

LOL. I like how I typed up that huge description and argument of an Auto-Taunt ability only to have it shunted and ignored. :x I guess that's what I get for waiting too long, but c'mon, I didn't have the idea until just then. Dx

I don't think it was that; I think it was the fact that Beej didn't feel a custom Ability was necessary.

Voted for Trace, as it embodies what we want in a "Utility" counter; you can't get much more utility than having any Ability you want.

 

[Banryu]

Yeah, that's probably the case... too bad, I would have liked to at least have someone comment about it after typing all that. ;___;

But yeah, I see where he's coming from... we can totally still work with pre-existing abilities for this concept.

Voted Filter.

 

[Shock Trooper]

Hmm... Looking at the two best choices for a Utility Counter- Trace and Magic Guard- I feel that Trace and Magic Guard both benefit CAP10 greatly, allowing it to either counter certain threats at given times (Trace) or block status and indirect damage moves (Magic Guard) Both of these are extremely beneficial, so I'm going to wait until the possible poll two to make a vote. If both of them move on... it will be a problem to pick between the two.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Voted for Intimidate. Water/Electric has pitifully few Physical resistances (Steel being about the only relevant one, and maybe Water for the occasional Waterfall) and a nasty physical weakness in Ground. With our current typing, CAP10 will have an extremely difficult time living through DDMence's assaults if it switches in on the DD, and while Trace also helps with this, Intimidate helps more with things like SD Infernape and DD/CBTar, which Trace does fuck-all against. Really, of all the Pokemon Trace would be relevant against where Intimidate wouldn't, only Flygon and MAYBE Specs Jolteon really threaten CAP10 in the first place. Heatran isn't exactly going to be using Fire attacks against you, Kingdra is going to outspeed out if it DDs on the switch anyway, Swift Swim or no, and Intimidate helps much more with that, and Natural Cure, while useful, isn't really worth losing against several physical threats you'd otherwise win against. Simply put, I don't see what the point of Trace is when Intimidate just gives CAP10 the ability to counter way more pokes while also maintaining the ability to counter the important ones (gyra, mence). And no, it doesn't make it too much of a "general wall", since Intimidate's effects disappear on the switch and a 0/0 spread will be taking massive damage from physical attacks even with Intimidate.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

It was a tough choice between Filter and Trace, but I decided to with the latter for soft countering a ton of Pokemon in OU. Anyway, if I'm not wrong, there will be a secondary ability right?

 

[TEA_DEMON]

Trace definitely. As soon as the concept was decided, I thought "...but isn't Porygon2 a utility counter anyway?", and Trace is half of the reason Porygon2 is effective at what it does.

 

[SJCrew]

Going for Intimidate. I've discussed my reasoning for it through and through and ultimately, it boils down to the fact that CAP is designed to counter almost anything you need it to and it will have immense trouble with physical attackers, since it doesn't quite have what it takes to stop things like DD Mence, Gyara, and SD Lucario with its stats alone. Intimidate could be the small push it needs to do its job effectively without overreaching its defensive capabilities. Intimidate is good to help you switch in to things as necessary, but it's easily negated by switching and the CAP could easily falter to OU's many special attackers if it wasn't designed to counter them.

I have a high opinion of Trace too, as it counters very specific things, most of which are more on the special side of the spectrum. CAP can take excellent advantage of this in many different ways, but it doesn't quite have the utility Intimidate does and I would like to see the more useful of the two get in first and foremost.

As soon as the concept was decided, I thought "...but isn't Porygon2 a utility counter anyway?", and Trace is half of the reason Porygon2 is effective at what it does.

Exactly, which is why we don't need another Porygon 2. CAP10 is CAP10, and Intimidate is far more useful to counter the likes of OU's sweepers. Think practicality, guys, this is the primary ability we're talking about. I like the Trace/Intimidate combo, but Intimidate is the more useful ability, and we need to make sure it gets in first.

 

[petrie911]

Filter

It takes enough sting off SE attacks to let CaP10 switch in, but doesn't allow as much general use as Levitate or Intimidate. Trace is a good ability, but I'd prefer Filter for now.

 

[Deck Knight]

The argument against Intimidate has never been that it not effective. On the contrary the argument is Intimidate is too effective.

Flat-out KO'ing is not the only way to counter an opponent. You can also cripple them with status, and given CAP10 is part Electric, I have difficulty in believing Thunder Wave will be off the table. Intimidate enables CAP10 to cripple far too many things, especially mixed attackers, by giving it enough bulk on both sides to always pull off TWave. SD Infernape isn't going to start running Lum Berry to stop that. Will that make Fighting types a sticking point? Perhaps Machamp, since most of the other Fighting Pokemon use Close Combat as a STAB and are generally slower than CAP10. Infernape is faster, but unless it runs SD, CC, and Mach Punch, Aqua Jet can get to it for example.

Fighting types already have a type immune to their attacks and some of the strongest offensive threats in the game (Salamence, Gyarados, Latias) resist Fighting. Intimidate helps counter these pokemon too much in addition to taking the bite out of many Ground types. It shuts down too much of the metagame at once, and therefore is too powerful for the concept.

I have no doubt that Intimidate is a more reliable ability than Trace, the point is it's too reliable to still fit the concept.

 

[VNS.Lunate]

I choose Intimidate

There are many Physical Sweepers now, so this can be a good Ability, especially with a Defensive Pokemon :D

 

[Midou]

I decided to stay out of the ability discussion as by the time I arrived on the scene for that thread, most of my thoughts were already laid out. Trace is the superior choice in this list as many of the targets that intimidate would hit that Trace does not - Lucario, Infernape, DDtar - have other very potent hard counters as it is. As Deck Knight pointed out, we are not looking to shut down a typing that already has many holes in its offensive ability.

 

[reachzero]

I see Filter being much less useful than the other abilities and Magic Guard as more of a an offensive ability compared to Intimidate and Magic Guard, so let me explain my logic in choosing Intimidate over Trace.

A good way to look at this would be to take a look at which threats CAP10 could conceivably be asked to counter, and to see which ability is more useful in dealing with each. Note that I used the term "threats", CAP10 is not designed to be a wallbreaker. Blissey and Swampert are not Pokemon you need to counter anyway, so no one cares if CAP10 is walled by them!

I'll list the threats that might need to be countered in order of usage, excluding threats that have Intimidate (i.e. Salamence and Gyarados). Pokemon that are problematic for CAP10 without the more useful ability are in red.

Scizor is hurt more by Intimidate, since it is not hurt at all by CAP10 copying Technician, whereas it doesn't like having it's Attack lowered. CAP10 isn't a great "counter" anyway, since U-turn hurts when Stealth Rock is considered either way.

Tyranitar is hurt more by Intimidate, since copying Sand Stream does nothing at all for CAP10. Choice Band Tyranitar does 47.6% - 56.3% to CAP10 with Stone Edge assuming Trace, meaning it can only switch in once. The same Stone Edge does only 31.6% - 37.5% to CAP10 with Intimidate, allowing it to switch in twice.

Heatran is hurt more by Trace, but what does it matter when you already resist Heatran's STAB, outspeed and threaten to OHKO? Intimidate also weakens Heatran's Explosion, which makes this much closer than it looks at first.

Latias doesn't care either way, though Trace is clearly more useful because it gives CAP10 Levitate, which is very good for CAP10. Two Specs Draco Meteors will do 78.7 (minimum) to 100 (maximum)% to 252/252 Calm/Careful CAP10, and almost nothing CAP10 can do will even 2HKO Latias, so Latias is problematic regardless, and CAP10 probably should use its secondary ability, whatever it turns out to be.

Rotom-A also doesn't care, though Trace is clearly more useful for the same reason as Latias.

Calm Mind Jirachi is hurt more by Trace, because it doesn't care about Intimidate and doesn't want to be paralyzed by Electric moves. Physical Jirachi is always countered by almost any CAP10, so it will never be prepared for.

Metagross can't be countered effectively by CAP10 with either ability.

Gengar is essentially in the same situation as Rotom-a in that Trace is more useful, though Gengar does 75.1% - 88.5% to Trace CAP10 with Explosion and only 50.2% - 59.1% to Intimidate CAP10, so it isn't a total loss.

Lucario is hurt much more by Intimidate, as an unboosted Jolly Life Orb Lucario Close Combat does 44.8% - 52.9% to 252 Defense/252 Speed Bold CAP10, meaning it can only switch in once. The same Close Combat does only 30% - 35.4% to Intimidate CAP10, allowing it to switch in twice.

Physical Mix Infernape is hurt much more by Intimidate as Infernape does 47.6% - 56.2% to Trace CAP10 with Close Combat, assuming Timid (to outspeed standard MixApe) and 252 Defense EVs, meaning it can only switch in once. The same Close Combat does only 31.4% - 37.2% to Intimidate CAP10, allowing it to switch in twice. CAP10 will never benefit by using Trace against any Infernape set.

Starmie will never be specifically prepared for since it is countered by almost literally every conceivable CAP10 set. The same is true of Suicune.

Breloom is hurt more by Intimidate, though neither ability can switch in very safely because of Spore anyway. Assuming something else has already taken the sleep, Focus Punch will do 46.8% - 55.1%to Trace CAP10, versus 31% - 36.8% to Intimidate CAP10 (both 252 HP/252 Def Bold), though neither will manage to do more than breaking Breloom's Substitute before it switches out, so Breloom is a problem for either ability.

Machamp is hurt more by Intimidate, since CAP10 benefits only marginally from No Guard, and Machamp does not like having its attack cut.

Jolteon is clearly hurt more by Trace, particularly since CAP10 with Intimidate takes 35.6% - 42.1% from Specs Thunderbolt even with 252 HP/252 SpD Calm.

Empoleon doesn't care either way, though Trace is preferable because Torrent would be nice for CAP10 to have. Of course, CAP10 will almost never actually prepare for Empoleon, since almost any CAP10 set will counter it regardless.
​

Counting out Latias, Metagross and Breloom, which are problematic regardless, Intimidate helps CAP10 counter Infernape, Lucario and Tyranitar, which cannot be countered effectively by CAP10 with Trace, unless CAP10 gets reliable recovery (which should not be assumed). Trace has two real advantages over Intimidate: it handles Jolteon much better, and it allows CAP10 to acquire Levitate by switching into a number of threats, which is nice even when it doesn't help CAP10 counter the actual threat itself. However, Trace leaves more holes than Intimidate does, so if Trace is chosen reliable recovery will be almost non-negotiable on CAP10.

 

[ShravanP]

I voted for Intimidate. I like both Trace and Intimidate, but I feel that Intimidate is a greater necessity at this time than Trace. For this, let's quickly look over the Pokemon that Trace helps against:

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Directly counter by copying ability:
Blissey
Bronzong
Celebi (sort of, though we don't want to switch into a grass move anyway)
Dusknoir (if you want to pressure stall)
Electivire
Flygon
Gyarados
Heatran
Jolteon
Kingdra
Magnezone
Salamence
Vaporeon
Zapdos (to counter-PP stall)

Generally useful to copy ability:
Latias/Rotom-A/Gengar
Ninjask

Now, looking at the above list, we can take away a few that are not really that useful. Vaporeon, for one. Tracing it is only helpful to steal some HP, but Vaporeon in and of itself cannot really scratch CAP10 (except with Toxic, which trace isn't helping against anyway). Same goes for Heatran, whose STABs don't do much to us. Trace is even less useful against Heatran because you'll end up boosting the power of a type Heatran itself is immune to. Blissey is sort of borderline, as the only real threat it poses is either T-Wave or Toxic. But we'll leave it in for now. Neither Dusknoir nor Bronzong are doing much to you, nor will you find yourself desperate to 'counter' them.

Let's also remove those Pokemon that Intimidate covers equally well. That gets rid of Gyarados, Salamence, Kingdra (yes, Intimidating it is in fact more useful than tracing swift swim, as you're not always guaranteed to have rain up), and Electivire (who is more likely to EQ you and whom you can outspeed anyway).

And those Pokemon from whom you can steal either Levitate (even Flygon) or Speed Boost end up hurting CAP10 in ways that have no relation with the traced ability. Gengar hits with special attacks, rotom can status, and the dragons can and most likely will Draco Meteor on the switch. Ninjask can just BP all that speed to something that counters CAP10, making our own speed useless.

After all this, it leaves us the following Pokemon that Trace helps against that Intimidate DOES NOT:

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Blissey
Celebi (Trace does nothing to help against its TRUE threat)
Flygon (Intimidate is also not too bad against Flygon)
Jolteon
Magnezone
Zapdos
Vaporeon (if you want the water absorb healing)

Now here are the threats that Intimidate covers that Trace DOES NOT:

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Aerodactyl
Dragonite
Gliscor
Heracross
Infernape
Lucario
Machamp
Mammoswine
Scizor
Snorlax
Swampert
Tyranitar
Weavile

Please compare the two lists and decide which set of threats you would rather have an easier time with. Trace does absolutely nothing to help against the likes of Lucario, Infernape, Tyranitar, Mammoswine, or Machamp. Would you rather ensure that we counter these threats or the likes of Jolteon and Flygon? And as I already mentioned, Intimidate has the same effect as Trace on the other 2 massive threats of Salamence and Gyarados.

To me, the choice is clear. Trace is a fine ability, and I do love how versatile it can be. But given the severity of the threats in that last list of Pokemon, Intimidate is far more necessary as a primary ability than Trace.

 

[Vaz]

Voted for Intimidate. This ability proves great bulk and really nice against many pokemon, especially that of going right into a Dragon Dancer. Nicely summed up by Reachzero

 

[Seizen]

I'm pushing Intimidate for the Primary ability. While I agree with Deck's analysis in that we don't need to flat-out KO an opponent, I don't actually care if someone argues that Intimidate makes it too powerful. Where is this power, exactly? We're running average attack stats, and average defence stats... the only thing CAP 10 has is a nice typing combination, high HP and high Speed. While those things are lovely, we're in more danger of dying to a CalmMindLatias or a ChoiceMence than we are to CAP10.

Of the threats of the metagame, I would prefer to not have to deal with moves such as Close Combat, Outrage, Explosion and Extremespeed, the moves which deal fairly high neutral damage on the physical side. By this, I mean I'd prefer to reduce the damage they do against my CAP10, as I can see this dying quickly to a combination of physical moves chain-linked together. Trace is an excellent ability, but in a perfect world, we would have a perfect ability. We don't live in a perfect world, and while we're building a utility counter, I don't want to have CAP10 become fairly useless when that Pokemon it counters isn't being used, or is used in an unexpected fashion.

While we are building a Utility Counter, built to counter one threat well and has the ability to be customized to take on numerous threats, just not all at once, we need to make sure it doesn't become a useless novelty-mon on a team if you face doesn't have Pokemon X we're countering.

That said, Trace compliments Intimidate, IMO, so we can always use the other for a secondary ability.

 

[Str0ngbad]

I agree with both Reach and Deck that Intimidate is more useful than Trace but I have to side with Deck Knight that it is too useful. Thank you for that list Reach but I see far too many of the guys on that list being countered by the same CAP10. Sure, CAP10 might not be able to counter two in one match (though it is entirely feasible) but if I can design my CAP10 so that it is prepared to counter any one of ten prominent threats then I do not think that the mission statement has been carried out. With our speed, stabs, and a probable status I fear we are already bordering on being a little too universal a counter.

I feel like trace is neat but only against a select bunch of threats and so is not always helpful and a little more situational than I would like for the primary ability. Still, I feel it does not break away from the concept and that our great stat spread will be enough without the ability against most threats we want to tailor to.

Magic Guard: OK, really? I love the idea of being immune to passive damage and it would fit the concept perfectly if that is all it was. Life Orb: CAP10 would have both base offensive stats just under 110 with 105 base speed on top of its substantial bulk with no recoil. That would be an awesome pokemon but is surely more than a utility counter. I am really surprised that Beej let this doozy in.

Filter: A generally useful ability mainly looked down on as not doing enough for CAP10 to be worth the ability spot. I on the other hand fear it is too useful. Why? Because our CAP only has two weaknesses and can handle them both pretty well with its stats already. Factor in that I am probably the only one on the forum that would like to see CAP10 weigh a little on the heavy side and you are effectively down to one weakness (barring about three pokemon's stab moves). I feel like taking the ground weakness away from CAP, even just halfway, is a little bit overkill defensively. I think it is a very useful ability but we don't need it and so it makes us better than we ought to be.

I'm not a huge fan of trace but it gets my vote since I feel like all three of the other abilities are too good. Filter will probably come next since I feel the other two allow for CAP10 to be even more dominant.

Please consider more than what the best ability is but think about what fits the concept best and exercise a little restraint if necessary.

EDIT: Seizen: Average defenses?! Did you read the calcs for Deck Knight's spread? This thing is built so that it can't be OHKO'd by hardly anything! Now stack Intimidate on there and tell me its defenses are still 'average'. That is where the power is coming from. CAP10 could switch in and force out almost any physical threat with his bulk and ability alone. That is way beyond making him more than dead weight.

EDIT#2: Banryu: Mixmence is already countered by surviving any hit on the switch and outspeeding. The extra padding of the defenses is not required. I know that Filter/Solid Rock only take off 1/4 of the total damage thereby taking away half of your weakness. Sorry if it was worded a little vaguely. Don't get me wrong, I love the ability and I stated that it is probably the least of the remaining evils in regards to being 'too much', but it is still bulk that we don't require to counter anything. (Though to be objective, it would help a lot if you have to do the job more than once but trace would do that just as well.)

 

[Dominion]

I love both Magic guard and Trace but I voted for Trace. It's simply too useful. Intimidate only helps against physical attackers while Trace actually gives this CAP some staying power. After you Intimidate that physical target then what? They switch into another one? Or perhaps they switch to teir special attacker? Intimidate's use is only on the switch, which isn't helping all that much. Not only that but this CAP's defenses are already high enough to not care about intimidate. It's not turning anything problematic from a 3HKO to a 2HKO or 1HKO. Atelast nobody has pointed anything major out.

"Fear my Shuckle" also brings up a huge point. Next to nothing can 1HKO this thing. with Intimidate, next to nothing can 2HKO this thing physically after the switch. Many other pokemon have useful abilities that this CAP enjoy using, even after their target is gone, such as Natural Cure, Swift Swim against Rain Dance teams, Serene Grace, Torrent from Emopoleon, No Guard from Machamp possibly, Sand Veil/Hyper Cutter from Gliscor, Technician from Scizor, the list is simply too large and I could explain in detail why all of these abilities would be useful to this CAP if the user made the right movepool to take advantage of every single one of these.

I honestly see no arguement for Intimidate. Trace is useful even after the opponent has switched his/her pokemon and Intimidate turns this thing into a physical wall.

 

[The Other Doug]

Why are both Filter & Solid Rock listed as the same abilities? Filter reduces super effective damage by 25%, while Solid Rock reduces super effective damage by 33.333%. They're two different abilities.

Anyway, I voted for Trace, because it fits the concept of the utility counter perfectly. Tracing an opponent's ability allows CAP10 to counter anything but not everything. For example, tracing Intimidate would help CAP10 counter Gyarados & Salamence, but it would have trouble against special attackers. However, if you trace something like Volt Absorb, you can counter Jolteon, but now you can't counter Salamence.

 

[Ezekiel]

Why are both Filter & Solid Rock listed as the same abilities? Filter reduces super effective damage by 25%, while Solid Rock reduces super effective damage by 33.333%. They're two different abilities.

Well, according to the Smogon search function, Filter and Solid Rock have identical functions. "Whenever a move is used on this Pokémon that is super effective, the damage is decreased by 1/4." It would seem that Bulbapedia confirms this, since the description there for Filter is, "See Solid Rock."

 

[Banryu]

Filter: A generally useful ability mainly looked down on as not doing enough for CAP10 to be worth the ability spot. I on the other hand fear it is too useful. Why? Because our CAP only has two weaknesses and can handle them both pretty well with its stats already. Factor in that I am probably the only one on the forum that would like to see CAP10 weigh a little on the heavy side and you are effectively down to one weakness (barring about three pokemon's stab moves). I feel like taking the ground weakness away from CAP, even just halfway, is a little bit overkill defensively. I think it is a very useful ability but we don't need it and so it makes us better than we ought to be.

I just wanted to respond do this... I don't agree that it would be too useful, but just useful enough. In my mind, this just makes the CAP more capable of countering certain things. It negates the need for Intimidate, and could be balanced by a secondary ability like Magic Guard or Trace. This ability is what could make CAP10 capable of countering things like MixMence, which are normally hard to counter otherwise.

Also, I need to obligatorily point out that Filter only reduces SE damage by 1/4th. It's not too much and possibly not enough to be helpful, but if we make it less light to balance out the Grass Knot weakness then this can be a pretty fair mitigation of damage.

...it's early, and I'm not articulating my points real well, but the bottom line is, it's an ability that enhances a Pokemon with already-good defensive stats without enhancing it TOO much.

 

[Raikaria]

As mentioned in the previous thread, my Support is for Magic Guard.

CAP10 does not want to have it's rear handed to it by hazards, only to have it's target switch out next turn, and acomplish nothing. Magic Guard lowers this.

Magic Guard will also allow the use of Life Orb, which won't be breaking new ground with offensive stats hardly higher than Clefable, but will alow CAP10 to hit hard enough to actually hart stuff.

Magic Guard is also a great ability to counter pokemon such as Blissey, and other status users, particually toxic/burn.

The other abilities are good choices, but I feel Magic Guard is a must for one of the two abilities, with Intimidate or Solid Rock/Filter as the second [What does Filter do, or is it identical to Solid Rock?]

Ideally, I'd want Magic Guard or Trace to win this one, and one of the other two to win the other poll.