CAP 10 CAP 10 - Concept Submissions

[Plus]

I am satisfied with reachzero's Utility Counter concept. Short and sweet, and its concept name doesn't sound like lyrics to a song! Attempting to stop almost any pokemon depending on what it uses sounds like a sound idea, especially considering that there is nothing in OU that accomplishes such a goal. I'd love to see what would happen to team building thought processes when you have a pokemon where you can slap on and say "hard counter" when your team is weak to a specific threat, not only to some teams, but all of them. While one necessarily can't say that it's going to be easy to address all threats, I'd love to give it a swing and attempt to make something that can address everything, but not at once.

 

[mtr]

I like Elevator Music's idea of a viable Burn user. In the current metagame, too many Will-O-Wisp users are slow (Heatran, Weezing) or SR-weak (Moltres), so we really can't explore how viable a burn-spreading strategy is. This would be fun to investigate.

 

[billymills]

Name: Suit of Armor
General Description: Pokemon that is really hard to stop initially, but becomes incredibly useless when it loses a bit of HP.
Justification: Entry hazards are everywhere, along with status like burn. I wonder if it's feasible to have a pokemon stay at (near) max health for a reasonable amount of time. This would encourage more supporting moves such as Wish, Heal bell, and possibly other strange techniques like Lunar Dance. Is it possible to keep a pokemon extremely healthy in the current metagame?
Questions To Be Answered:
Are supporting moves (wish-like) truly viable, or is it better to have two independant pokemon instead?
What strategies require high the pokemon to be in good status, what are feasible regardless?
Explanation: A pokemon where it is recommended to keep HP at 85%+ or so, along with being free of status (but that goes without saying). May or may not be able to heal itself through various methods. Once it reaches hp levels like 70%, it becomes rather unimpressive, and once it reaches ~40%, it's downright useless. Moves like Eruption and Water Spout come to mind, but aren't necessary. Even entry on SR and 1 spikes would make this pokemon rather weak, but at 90%+ has to be quite impressive. Encourages healing at high percentages and wish-passing.

Disclaimers:
I don't know if this has been posted before. If I stole your idea, sorry!
If you think you can come up with a better explanation/questions etc, please post it and PM me. I'll delete this post.
I'm not editing this post, so if there's a problem have someone else fix it.

 

[monkymeet]

Name: Low Power Move Abuser

General Description: Low power moves can sometimes have nice secondary effects, whether it is priority, as seen in Bullet Punch and Ice Shard, lowering opponent's speed, such as Icy Wind and Mud Shot, berry manipulation, for Pluck and Bug Bite, or other different effects. This pokemon would focus on utilizing these more unique moves that are often overlooked due to their lower base power.

Justification: Low power moves tend to have more interesting effects, but their lower power tends to leave them in general disuse. Do their various unique effects lend themselves to actually be useful, or are they by default already useless from the start?

Questions to be Answered:

• Are many of these secondary effects completely useless?
• Would they be viable and would a rise in their use result in a shift in the metagame?
• Would these special secondary effects be overpowering if they could deal similar damage to the usual competitive moves?

Explanation: I've always wondered about the lesser used moves, especially those that lowered speed such as Icy Wind and Rock Tomb. Especially with speed being so important, or even bulk (which can be addressed by defense lowering moves, such as Crush Claw and Rock Smash), would these moves with lower power but more influential secondary effects be viable? Typing can really be anything, but Normal types rarely come up in discussions, and they tend to have large movepools with many types. A large BST could also offset the fact that it might lack the typical competitive moves, forcing it to apply the weaker relatives of the moves we know so dearly. Interesting moves I feel could use a second look are: Multi-hitting moves (destroying subs), speed lowering moves (helps counter), defense lowering moves (such as Kitsunoh's signature move), berry eaters (slowing down sub/berry users), accuracy lowerers (general annoyance), trapping moves (as seen by Heatran's Magma Storm having a niche use), leeching moves (such as drain punch).

 

[ATray]

Concept: "Immunity"

Description: A defensive pokemon which, through typing or ability, carries an immunity to an otherwise poorly-resisted offensive type.

Justification: In the current metagame, pokemon with immunities to common offensive types are core to a team's defense, as switching into an attack and countering is made significantly easier and less risky if the pokemon carries an immunity. Heatran, Vaporeon, Electivire, and pokemon with the ability Levitate have reached popularity through the immunities their abilities provide, which can turn a potentially devastating attack into a lifesaver, or a chance to set up and turn the tables completely. A pokemon with an immunity to an otherwise poorly-resisted offensive type, such as Dragon or Ice, could act as a counter to a pokemon that is otherwise deemed virtually "uncounterable" - for example, Salamence, and the now uber Garchomp. This could reduce the dominance of such pokemon.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Would such a pokemon reduce the fast-paced offensive nature of the metagame, and make other strategies, such as stall or weather, more viable or necessary?
• Would such a pokemon reduce the offensive dominance of currently top-tier pokemon?
• As a negative effect, would such a pokemon contribute to an increase in "immunity" teams, which could be highly difficult to counter?

Explanation: The ability would most likely have to be designed by us, as providing an immunity to a type that currently no pokemon is immune to excluding Shedinja, such as Dragon, Ice, Grass or Steel, is otherwise impossible. Typing is not highly important, although types such as Ghost, Flying and Ground keep with the theme of immunity and provide resistances to common types. Since the pokemon should be somewhat defensive, defensive types such as Water and Steel could also be appreciated.

Whilst defense is important here, the pokemon should be somewhat offensive in order to effectively counter the pokemon it provides immunities against - this could be achieved through the use of priority, or an ability that provides an immunity and an offensive boost simultaneously (an example being Electivire's Motor Drive or Heatran's Flash Fire). Appearance would be based on the typing, stats and moveset created for the pokemon.

 

[Zach]

I like Elevator Music's idea of a viable Burn user. In the current metagame, too many Will-O-Wisp users are slow (Heatran, Weezing) or SR-weak (Moltres), so we really can't explore how viable a burn-spreading strategy is. This would be fun to investigate.

rotom is moderately speedy and isn't SR weak

but yes agreeing with mtr, the burn strategy is interesting

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Name: Speed Tier Scrambler

General Description: A Pokemon that, using it's uniqueness, will discourage players to aim for certain speed tiers simply by making them less important to aim for.

Justification: Speed Tiers are a fairly important aspect that influences team building, when players try to aim for popular numbers such as 222, 231, 280, 300, 306 and 330, as this often means the difference between fainting or being fainted. This Pokemon will try to make the metagame more diverse in it's speed by making speed tiers less important by means that are not yet known. This let's us maybe find other ways to utilize our Pokemon's speed and thus discovering new things about the metagame. The randomness of some speed stats will also make the metagame more enjoyable, as saying "this will outspeed" will be much harder to do, and so making the player take risks and think much, much more before making a potentially dumb move. Overall, playing will be much more enjoyable.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Did CAP10 manage to change the focus of the metagame speed-wise?
• Have new strategies and Pokemon been introduced as effective, thanks to the changes in the metagame?
• What strategies and playstyle are most affected by speed changes in the metagame?
• What is/are the most stable and effective playing style(s) in this shifting metagame?
• How do the changes in the attention towards speed tiers in team building affect Pokemon's usage? Are there certain (groups of)Pokemon who gain/lose usage do to these type of changes?

Explanation: This idea can be utilized in CAP10 using many aspects of Pokemon. It's speed doesn't have to be affected by current speed tiers for it to affect them at all, though it is a possibility. A Pokemon that can maybe take advantage of Pokemon running speed alike him may have a big effect on those Pokemon. Maybe this Pokemon will take advantage of speed ties, or maybe even something completely different -- maybe it can have some kind of ability or move that affects EVs, IVs, speed boosts or anything else speed related to try and discourage players to use Pokemon that run roughly the same speed to reach the same targets. There can be countless possiblities for this CAP, so I'll leave that open to people more invloved in CAP discussion and CAP making in general. Have fun with it!

 

[tennisace]

I really don't understand your concept Blue_Tornado. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? I don't think you can stop people from aiming for certain speed numbers, you'll just encourage them to use slightly different ones. The only way that's possible is making a Pokemon with a very specific speed tier (93 or 98 or 102, for example), and forcing people to run the extra speed. It doesn't add a niche to the metagame, and we don't learn anything from it.

 

[Akusu]

Nothing Phazes me

Name: Nothing Phazes me.

Description: This is a pokemon that would be difficult to force out, and would benefit from a prolonged stay on the field.

Justification: The metagame is plagued by entry hazards, with spikes and rocks. Combine this with the ability to force an opponent to shuffle pokemon around, derailing their strategy while weakening and scouting it. CAP10 would be a pokemon with the most effective tools for preventing this.

Questions to be answered:
* Can any one pokemon force commitment from the opponent without outright trapping them?
* Would such a pokemon excel at setup for baton pass teams? For receiving?
* Can we achieve Phazing immunity without creating setup fodder?
* Would this centralize teams around Haze when they would have otherwise chosen Roar?
* Can we discourage entry hazard based stall?

Explanation:
I envision this pokemon as abusing any of a few abilities/moves, or taking any of a few strategies.

An ability with real potential for accomplishing the benefit from staying in for a while requirement would be Slow Start. Other options are boosting moves, fixed percentage/damage moves. Basically things that are oblivious to the opponent's state.

Haze and Roar are only found together in OU on Dragonite and Vaporeon, and only Vaporeon uses Roar in the current smogon sets. Vaporeon would be an interesting case for a larger team choice: Haze or Roar. There's also Tentacruel, Gengar, Crobat and Weezing as potentially effective hazers. As for CAPs, Cyclohm and Arghonaut also have both.

The following is just to demonstrate the potential options (and why I think this would be possible):

Hide

A bulky/walling Phaze immune pokemon is likely to have Simple, Oblivious, SoundProof or Suction Cups. It could know Ingrain, have strong defensive typing(such as Ghost/Dark) and boosting moves. It would also likely be relatively weak defensively otherwise, so that protecting its boosts would be top priority.

A fast(er) pokemon would be able to outmaneuver the Phazer, by Roaring first, or simply having an arsenal of attacks that wouldn't be eagerly Encored, preventing Taunt at the same time. However since it only needs to outspeed common roarers perhaps its defenses would be terribly low emphasising the need to boost speed and attack (DD) or just defenses (StockPile/Curse).

 

[ReddyGo]

Name: Walls on Wheels

I like this as it also perhaps can give an opportunity to use moves like Power Trick and Power Swap. Especially the latter

 

[tennisace]

I like this as it also perhaps can give an opportunity to use moves like Power Trick and Power Swap. Especially the latter

Then it stops being a wall? I'd rather have a sweeper and not waste a moveslot for such a useless move to begin with.

 

[Oglemi]

Name: Mini-Arceus

Description: A Pokemon that, before battle or during battle, is able to willingly change its type either through the use of Ability, Item, or even a Move.

Justification: Let's face it, everytime Gamefreak wants to do something different or unique with a Pokemon's type either through ability, item or move, it comes out either sorely underpowered (Camoflauge, Kecleon), or superly overpowered (Arceus). I want to know if it is possible to both manually and predeterminably change a Pokemon's type without it becoming overpowered or underpowered. ie: if there really is a middle ground.

Questions to be answered:
~ Is a Pokemon like this viable? Will it come out too overpowered?
~ What type will most people choose, and why? Is there really an overdominate type in the metagame? Or has there simply not been a good enough Pokemon in a certain type to help it dominate, and in effect, is there an anti-metagame type?
~ What role would such a Pokemon play in the metagame? Supporter, Sweeper, or Wall? And in effect, what kind of play would dominate the metagame if it's able to do such a thing? Stall, Balanced, or Heavy Offense?
~ How will people react to such a Pokemon? Would people become over-cautious and would stall dominate? Or, would people simply attack with abandon to quickly get rid of it and not wait to see what role it's playing?

Explanation: I know what most people are thinking when they read this. "Yah right, anything like that would be way too overpowered no matter what you did with it."

Well, that's what I want to find out. I think this type of concept is really open-ended in the way people would go about creating this thing. Would people want a Supporter, Sweeper, or Wall? I personally would think it should be balanced enough to fill any role, but what kind of Stats would balance out the ability to willingly change its type beforehand?

I think the best way to change its type would be to make it hold an item, (in my opinion it should be the Plates Arceus uses), thereby lessening the sheer amount of predicting an opponent would have to do when facing such a creature, but as I said, the way of creating this thing would be left to the community.

 

[papainfernape95]

Name: Mini-Arceus

Description: A Pokemon that, before battle or during battle, is able to willingly change its type either through the use of Ability, Item, or even a Move.

Justification: Let's face it, everytime Gamefreak wants to do something different or unique with a Pokemon's type either through ability, item or move, it comes out either sorely underpowered (Camoflauge, Kecleon), or superly overpowered (Arceus). I want to know if it is possible to both manually and predeterminably change a Pokemon's type without it becoming overpowered or underpowered. ie: if there really is a middle ground.

Questions to be answered:
~ Is a Pokemon like this viable? Will it come out too overpowered?
~ What type will most people choose, and why? Is there really an overdominate type in the metagame? Or has there simply not been a good enough Pokemon in a certain type to help it dominate, and in effect, is there an anti-metagame type?
~ What role would such a Pokemon play in the metagame? Supporter, Sweeper, or Wall? And in effect, what kind of play would dominate the metagame if it's able to do such a thing? Stall, Balanced, or Heavy Offense?
~ How will people react to such a Pokemon? Would people become over-cautious and would stall dominate? Or, would people simply attack with abandon to quickly get rid of it and not wait to see what role it's playing?

Explanation: I know what most people are thinking when they read this. "Yah right, anything like that would be way too overpowered no matter what you did with it."

Well, that's what I want to find out. I think this type of concept is really open-ended in the way people would go about creating this thing. Would people want a Supporter, Sweeper, or Wall? I personally would think it should be balanced enough to fill any role, but what kind of Stats would balance out the ability to willingly change its type beforehand?

I think the best way to change its type would be to make it hold an item, (in my opinion it should be the Plates Arceus uses), thereby lessening the sheer amount of predicting an opponent would have to do when facing such a creature, but as I said, the way of creating this thing would be left to the community.

I really like this idea, but rather than using the Plates, I'd suggest something like an ability where the Pokemon's natural type is ??? (like the move Curse), and then it could maybe have an ability where when it's first released onto the field, it gets to pick one type with which it must stick for the rest of the match.

Just a nitpick.

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

I don't know if we're supposed to be weighing in on ideas yet, but I like mini-Arceus too. My actual thoughts on it was a color change like Kecleon but one that operated like Conversion2 instead of Conversion, or something that queued up two types instead of one could be annoying. Just my two cents, feel free to delete if this isn't the type of discussion meant to be generated.

 

[Ordinando]

Name: Beginning and End

Description: A Pokemon that can excel in only two roles, as a lead and as an endgame-sweeper.

Justification: Many of the CaP projects have been creating a Pokemon with one competitive role, but at the end, often finding other uses (Kitsunoh, for example). This project would challenge us to limit versatility without affecting functionality as well as explore how niches overlap.

Questions to be answered:
- Is it possible to limit a Pokemon to two competitive roles?
- Will it perform better in one role than the other?
- Do the two roles overlap well?
- Can it play both roles be played with the same set?

Explanation: I have seen variations of this for a while in CaP, but none are ever really quite what I had in mind. It may seem arbitrary to choose these two roles, but leaving them to be filled in would be too open-ended, perhaps if the concept does not go over I will tweak this. Anyway, some leads like Aerodactyl do not function well other than leads and some like Metagross can fit into many roles. As usual, this can lead us to some productive discussion of our current metagame, with analysis of other dual-role Pokemon.


I'll probably tweak this later, I just don't know deadlines and such. Feel free to use any of this or rehaul it and submit it.

 

[Oglemi]

@ papainfernape95 and Karakara: Like I said, I was going to leave most of that stuff up to the community to decide on what they want to do with it.

 

[Garagara]

I really, really like Reachzero's concept. Having a poke with lots of ways of being built, countering many pokemon while being weak to them too... it'd be able to fit one tons of teams, people would get really imaginative.

 

[Afti]

Name: (Not Too) Hobbled God
General Description: A would-be obvious Uber brought down to OU, BUT very definitely OU rather than a lower tier, by some Achilles' heel.
Justification: Regigigas and Slaking are useless for learning anything about our desired metagame; Truant and Slow Start are too far in the exact opposite direction. Where do we draw the line for a Pokemon's power, really? What is the barrier that separates Azelf from Mewtwo- what has to balance the incredibly powerful characteristics for a Pokemon to remain non-broken?
Questions To Be Answered: Does the "sweet spot" between reducing a Pokemon to NU and simply making it a worse Uber even exist?

Offensive ubers can be brought down to a lower tier; just look at Regigigas. Can defensive or support-based ones be treated similarly?

Where can we draw the line that reduces an obvious Uber to OU?

Explanation: BST 680 would be fun; imagine something with all the power and movepool of Palkia... only kept in OU by, say, an ability that makes super-effective attacks OHKO it, so that, given an Ice/Fighting type, for instance, Scizor or Heatran or Infernape or Lucario or fifty other things could utterly destroy it if it was played with anything but the greatest caution and skill. However, a BST 600 Pokemon similar to Darkrai would be easier to balance; how can, say, Darkrai be so utterly crippled that it is OU, without dispute?

 

[Golden Sun]

I like Blue_Tornado's idea of changing the speedbased metagame

 

[zarator]

About ElevatorMusic's concept, isn't Wispy Kit already a good example of a speedy, powerful Burn abuser?

 

[Skymin_Flower]

Name: Suit of Armor
General Description: Pokemon that is really hard to stop initially, but becomes incredibly useless when it loses a bit of HP.
Justification: Entry hazards are everywhere, along with status like burn. I wonder if it's feasible to have a pokemon stay at (near) max health for a reasonable amount of time. This would encourage more supporting moves such as Wish, Heal bell, and possibly other strange techniques like Lunar Dance. Is it possible to keep a pokemon extremely healthy in the current metagame?
Questions To Be Answered:
Are supporting moves (wish-like) truly viable, or is it better to have two independant pokemon instead?
What strategies require high the pokemon to be in good status, what are feasible regardless?
Explanation: A pokemon where it is recommended to keep HP at 85%+ or so, along with being free of status (but that goes without saying). May or may not be able to heal itself through various methods. Once it reaches hp levels like 70%, it becomes rather unimpressive, and once it reaches ~40%, it's downright useless. Moves like Eruption and Water Spout come to mind, but aren't necessary. Even entry on SR and 1 spikes would make this pokemon rather weak, but at 90%+ has to be quite impressive. Encourages healing at high percentages and wish-passing.

Disclaimers:
I don't know if this has been posted before. If I stole your idea, sorry!
If you think you can come up with a better explanation/questions etc, please post it and PM me. I'll delete this post.
I'm not editing this post, so if there's a problem have someone else fix it.

Sorry if its obvious, but could you please explain this? I dont really understand the concept :\

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I really don't understand your concept Blue_Tornado. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? I don't think you can stop people from aiming for certain speed numbers, you'll just encourage them to use slightly different ones. The only way that's possible is making a Pokemon with a very specific speed tier (93 or 98 or 102, for example), and forcing people to run the extra speed. It doesn't add a niche to the metagame, and we don't learn anything from it.

Hmm, well, to be completely honest I don't know how it can be accomplished too, and I think I said that somewhere in my post. Maybe the correct way to do this is just try to change the basic speeds that people aim for, like you said, so I might just try to edit my post. If what I underlined in my concept can't be done, I might just change it a bit. What's your opinion?

Either that or I can just give up on the idea. In my opinion, I think that if CAP10 makes the metagame shift in it's common speed tiers, we might find out a specific style of play that is best suited to such times. This might help when the metagame is changed, i.e. new Pokemon become OU. This information is also sure to help when Gen 5 comes around. Maybe I can change the concept to "a Pokemon that destabilizes the metagame speed-wise". I'm sure we can learn about the metagame when/if that happens.

 

[mushtool]

Name: Slow and Steady
General Description: A pokemon that due to stats, ability, move or item, is very slow and can take advantage of the various moves that require going last

Justification: Speed is an important aspect of the metagame, and though some slow pokemon exist, such as snorlax and bronzong, another with something different and new may make things interesting.

Questions to be answered:

• Is speed everything in the metagame?
  [*]What can slow pokemon do that fast pokemon cannot?
  [*]what moves become viable if your always last?

Explanation: There are many ways to be last, obviously low speed, like 60 or lower, but also iron ball, which could be tricked, or the ability stall, that makes you always go last.
This will allow some moves to be more useful, like assurance, and items like zoom lens will allow more low accuracy moves, like thunder, to have 90% accuracy just by going last.

 

[Zystral]

Name: (Not Too) Hobbled God

I don't understand this either. You want something that's more or less an Uber, but usable in OU because it has a disadvantage? Then it stops being Uber. You mention Regigigas (who isn't Uber, just a Legendary, lol) and Slaking (?_? Never was, never will be), who aren't used because of their crap ability. You also mention Azelf and Mewtwo, who vary because of their stat spreads and movepools.
If you want to make an OU so powerful it belongs in Ubers but with a drawback, then it'll either be too powerful as people can ignore the drawback and thus it'll be sent into Uber, OR it'll fit into the metagame, but won't be Uber as the drawback will hold it back too much, in which case the CAP as a whole has just flopped on its face.

Ubers are Uber because they would break OU if they were allowed. To make 'an Uber that works in OU due to a cripple' would be essentially making another slightly powerful OU. Ho-oh has a massive draw-back in Ubers (x4 SR weak, etc.) and yet it still overcentralizes OU. Scizor, is incredibly powerful, good stat spread and has a wide range of attacks at its disposal, yet isn't Uber simply because of it's typing and can easily be outsped bar Bullet Punch.
You mean to create something that could destroy all of OU if it was played right, and also works in Ubers, yet also has some large drawback? Scizor/Salamence are prime examples. We learn nothing from this.

 

[Afti]

I don't understand this either. You want something that's more or less an Uber, but usable in OU because it has a disadvantage? Then it stops being Uber. You mention Regigigas (who isn't Uber, just a Legendary, lol) and Slaking (?_? Never was, never will be), who aren't used because of their crap ability. You also mention Azelf and Mewtwo, who vary because of their stat spreads and movepools.
If you want to make an OU so powerful it belongs in Ubers but with a drawback, then it'll either be too powerful as people can ignore the drawback and thus it'll be sent into Uber, OR it'll fit into the metagame, but won't be Uber as the drawback will hold it back too much, in which case the CAP as a whole has just flopped on its face.

Ubers are Uber because they would break OU if they were allowed. To make 'an Uber that works in OU due to a cripple' would be essentially making another slightly powerful OU. Ho-oh has a massive draw-back in Ubers (x4 SR weak, etc.) and yet it still overcentralizes OU. Scizor, is incredibly powerful, good stat spread and has a wide range of attacks at its disposal, yet isn't Uber simply because of it's typing and can easily be outsped bar Bullet Punch.
You mean to create something that could destroy all of OU if it was played right, and also works in Ubers, yet also has some large drawback? Scizor/Salamence are prime examples. We learn nothing from this.

Didn't explain it too well...

Basically, Slaking and Regigigas are things that WOULD be Ubers, due to their phenomenal stats and movepools- except that their abilities reduce them to NU in spite of their considerable power. They aren't Uber; I'm well aware of that. But they in all likelihood WOULD be if their abilities ceased to exist, no?

This would be similar, but the intent is that its crippling flaw isn't severe enough to make it unusable in OU. It doesn't have to be usable in Ubers; I'm not sure where you got that idea. It needs to be a very obviously Uber Pokemon, but held back by a huge flaw of some sort. Scizor, cleared of the 4X Fire weakness, would still not be an Uber; it's definitely viable in Ubers, but being viable there is totally irrelevant. Crippling it in Ubers is, again, irrelevant; it needs to be crippled in OU sufficiently that it's not even arguably overcentralizing, but such that it is usable. Ho-Oh is NOT that; in OU, it could Recover on the switchin and proceed to kill everything that showed its face. It's harmed in Ubers by its typing, but this Pokemon is NOT meant to be played in Ubers; if it is playable, that's a coincidence.

This is a Pokemon that has exactly ONE flaw holding it back from tearing everything in OU to ribbons. If Scizor was faster or had a different typing, it would still definitely be beatable. Cleared of its flaw, nothing else in OU would hold a candle to this Pokemon, and it'd go to Ubers in a heartbeat. It allows us to learn about the metagame we want to play by finding what it takes for otherwise intolerable power to be allowed.