Bibarel (Gen 4, adding Baton Pass Recipient)

[Erodent]

Summary: The following set is a Bibarel designed to sweep foes after it receives Attack and Speed boosts, which are automatically doubled, thanks to its fantastic ability, Simple.
Status : Ready I'd say :) - team options in red

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/bibarel

[SET]
name: Baton Pass Recipient
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Return
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Superpower / Taunt
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Simple
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Hp / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although it has been cursed with a dull movepool and depressing base stats, Bibarel possesses an amazing ability, Simple. Combine this with its excellent dual-STAB moves that are only resisted by Empoleon and Shedinja, and Bibarel makes an impressive Baton Pass Receiver.</p>

<p>This set is concentrated in the Underused Tier. In preparation for a Bibarel sweep, we must comprehend two important things. Firstly, Simple doubles the effect of stat boosts, and the effect remains when Bibarel receives boosts from Baton Passes. Secondly, in reverse, Simple also doubles stat drops that Bibarel receives. In order to remedy this, one could prevent its Attack from dropping by using a Baton Passer with the ability Hyper Cutter, most notably of which is Gligar.</p>

<p>The subsequent calculations assume that Bibarel is equipped with a Life Orb and is passed at least one Swords Dance (this converts to +4 in the case of Bibarel). With Return, Bibarel tears through walls like Max HP / Def Bold Blastoise, Max HP / Def Impish Drapion, 252 HP / 224 Def Impish Miltank, 212 Hp / 252 Def Bold Slowbro, Max HP / Def Bold Weezing, and Max HP / Def Bold Uxie, OHKOing them all with Stealth Rock damage. Waterfall takes care of Steels and Rocks, OHKOing 252 HP Impish Steelix, Donphan, Claydol, Regirock, Spiritomb, Bastiodon, Golem, and more. Quick Attack is an option in a case when you are unable to pass any Speed at all. Taunt is used in the last moveslot in order to stop the likes of Steelix and Donphan from phazing Bibarel out.</p>

<p>The idea is to pair Bibarel with a Pokemon that can not only Baton Pass a Speed boost, but also a Swords Dance. The previously mentioned Gligar is a necessity. You are welcome to try out other Baton Passers, including Blaziken or Leafeon - you might even try constructing a simple Baton Pass chain consisting of a Sleep Powder Agility Venomoth who Baton Passes to Gligar, who Swords Dances and Baton Passes - to deliver the final boosts to Bibarel. Bibarel, however, is not the "bulkiest bulb" around, and Dual Screen and constant Wish support will make its entrance easier. It is recommended that you make full use of Gligar, but other good supporters include the Underused Eeveelutions. They can not only Baton Pass Wish, but also Swords Dance, Dual Screens, and Mean Look, depending on which one you use. If you decide to use Leftovers instead of Life Orb, you might consider enhancing your Baton Pass chain to even pass Defensive boosts like Amnesia and Barrier from Pokemon like Gorebyss.</p>

<p>The EV Spread is straightforward: 252 Attack EVs paired with an Adamant nature maximizes Bibarel's offensive prowess. HP is also maximized in order to be able to get Bibarel in safely. No Speed EVs are necessary because after an Agility boost, Bibarel has an astounding 534 Speed, which is faster than almost everything. Leftovers may be a consideration, but it prevents Bibarel from scoring the OHKOs it otherwise can acquire.</p>

<p>While slightly less effective in OU because of the presence of bulky walls like Dusknoir, never be discouraged to do so! Assuming that you are able to Baton Pass +2 Attack (+4 for Bibarel), Return OHKOs Celebi, can OHKO Cresselia, and OHKOs standard Physically Defensive Zapdos, Standard Vaporeon, Max Hp / Def Swampert, and does 98% minimum to Max Def / Hp Bold Suicune, all with Stealth Rock damage. Waterfall OHKOs any Hippowdon, Gliscor, Standard Sassy Bronzong, and any Scizor. On the bulkiest walls, Waterfall is a 2HKO - paired with Taunt, Dusknoir will be unable to burn you, and Skarmory will be unable to phaze you. You can then score 2HKOs on these Pokemon, in addition to Forretress. You may also opt to invest 12 Speed EVs to outrun everything to Scarf Starmie. Excellent Baton Passing partners include Swords Dance / Rock Polish Gliscor and Dragon Dance / Spore Smeargle.</p>

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
rano30 sent out Yanmega (lvl 100 Yanmega ?).
BeaverTest sent out Smeargle (lvl 100 Smeargle ?).
SM-test has entered the room.
Yanmega used Protect.
Yanmega protected itself!
Smeargle used Substitute.
Smeargle lost 25% of its health.
Smeargle made a substitute!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
A critical hit!
The substitute took damage for Smeargle!
Smeargle's substitute faded!
Smeargle used Spore.
Yanmega fell asleep!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Substitute.
Smeargle lost 25% of its health.
Smeargle made a substitute!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Dragon Dance.
Smeargle's attack was raised.
Smeargle's speed was raised.
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Dragon Dance.
Smeargle's attack was raised.
Smeargle's speed was raised.
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega woke up!
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
A critical hit!
The substitute took damage for Smeargle!
Smeargle's substitute faded!
Smeargle used Spore.
Yanmega fell asleep!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Substitute.
Smeargle lost 25% of its health.
Smeargle made a substitute!
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Dragon Dance.
Smeargle's attack was raised.
Smeargle's speed was raised.
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Smeargle used Baton Pass.
BeaverTest switched in Bibarel (lvl 100 Bibarel ?).
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega is fast asleep!
Bibarel used Return.
Yanmega lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Yanmega fainted.
Bibarel lost 10% of its health.
---
rano30 switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Bibarel used Waterfall.
Skarmory lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Skarmory fainted.
Bibarel lost 10% of its health.
---
rano30 switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Bibarel used Waterfall.
Azelf lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Azelf fainted.
Bibarel lost 10% of its health.
---
rano30 switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Bibarel used Return.
Starmie lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Starmie fainted.
Bibarel lost 10% of its health.
---
rano30 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Bibarel used Return.
Blissey lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Blissey fainted.
Bibarel lost 10% of its health.
---
rano30 switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Bibarel!
Bibarel's substitute faded!
Bibarel used Waterfall.
Scizor lost 100% of its health.
rano30's Scizor fainted.
BeaverTest wins!

 

[Veedrock]

Why use Bibarel over Metagross? Metagross hits 810 Attack with +2, while Bibarel is 885 with +4. There's a gap but Metagross has significantly more bulk. Bibarel has more speed I suppose but generally +2 is sufficient for the job. I also don't see why you have Quick Attack when you'll outspeed literally everything, and the priority attacker of choice resists it.

+4 LO Quick Attack vs. 0/0 Scizor: (37.37% - 44.13%)

I'm not convinced by the log either. That game had a 3 turn sleep followed by a 4 turn sleep and they let you set up. It's too perfect, as opposed to a 'real' battle. You really should save EVERY log testing it instead of just picking out the one(s) where it works.

EDIT @ Janenmori: Um, my number above is with +2, not +4.

 

[Janenmori]

It takes two SDs to pass Metagros +4 atk, whereas it takes one to pass Bibarel +4. That is the point. It is simple to pass it stat boosts compared to other pkmn, no pun intended.

 

[Erodent]

@ Veedrock: I believe that although Metagross has more bulk, as Janenmori mentioned, Bibarel can accumulate more power within a shorter time. I suppose Quick Attack is a silly option. Will Taunt do it then?
For the log, I knew Yanmega'd wake up sooner or later, so I spored and he woke up. But I guess my opponent sucked for not Whirlwinding me earlier.

 

[iKitsune]

If you make a peer edit without emphasizing the team, it will be closed, and depending on the case, potentially infracted.

Basically do this. Add in what can provide the right support in OU and UU for this to work. IE gliscor, Smeargle. Dual Screens. In UU Venomoth and SD passer.
Apart form that really nice work. Bibarel is an excellent sweeper in this role. You may want to mention that Bibarel also function well in UU its actual tier.

 

[Erodent]

Thank you Sir! By the way, I'm assuming you mean I should add to this:

The idea is to pair Bibarel with a Pokemon that can not only Baton Pass a speed boost, but also a Swords Dance. Effective examples include Gliscor, Ninjask, or even a Dragon Dancing Smeargle

?

I'll also update with a UU Baton Pass Receiver set in a while, I suppose.

 

[iKitsune]

Thank you Sir! By the way, I'm assuming you mean I should add to this:



?

I'll also update with a UU Baton Pass Receiver set in a while, I suppose.

You probably need quite a lot more to be honest. Read this thread for further details. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53061

 

[Terminator]

Metagross after one single Swords Dance reaches an Attack stat of 810, while Bibarel after one single Swords Dance (which is essentially two for him) reaches 885. However, despite the higher Attack stat accommodated by Bibarel, it's still less powerful since Metagross has great bulk, in addition to a better typing.

This set is basically an inferior Metagross.

 

[Erodent]

I believe it depends on how you look at it. Metagross might have better defensive typing, but offensively, dual-STAB resisted by only Empoleon and Shedinja makes Bibarel an attractive attacker. Metagross' Psychic STAB is rarely used offensively as well.

 

[Bologo]

I believe it depends on how you look at it. Metagross might have better defensive typing, but offensively, dual-STAB resisted by only Empoleon and Shedinja makes Bibarel an attractive attacker. Metagross' Psychic STAB is rarely used offensively as well.

You're forgetting one crucial thing that makes Metagross MUCH better at this than Bibarel. The extra bulk and better defensive typing are important, yes.

Metagross's trait, Clear Body is what cinches it here. Metagross is protected from Intimidators of OU - Salamence and Gyarados, which are in the top 10. This means that when he receives the pass, the only way of getting his stats back to normal is phazing him out.

But with Bibarel, he suffers a massive -2 Attack drop from Intimidate due to Simple. This means that within a matter of 2 switch-ins, Bibarel will be pretty weak again. That's why Metagross is so much better at receiving than Bibarel.

However, I do agree with you on the much better double STAB for Bibarel.

 

[iKitsune]

You're forgetting one crucial thing that makes Metagross MUCH better at this than Bibarel. The extra bulk and better defensive typing are important, yes.

Metagross's trait, Clear Body is what cinches it here. Metagross is protected from Intimidators of OU - Salamence and Gyarados, which are in the top 10. This means that when he receives the pass, the only way of getting his stats back to normal is phazing him out.

But with Bibarel, he suffers a massive -2 Attack drop from Intimidate due to Simple. This means that within a matter of 2 switch-ins, Bibarel will be pretty weak again. That's why Metagross is so much better at receiving than Bibarel.

However, I do agree with you on the much better double STAB for Bibarel.

Yeah but a gliscor, which is what i believe will be this sets best passer has hyper cutter. So intimidate does nothing.

 

[Lee]

Is there any reason you're emphasing the fact that this is an 'overused baton pass receiver.' I see no reason why this wouldn't be more effective in UU perhaps in tandem with Gligar.

Quick Attack should still be an option for situations where you're only able to pass Atk and no Speed. +4 Quick Attack is pretty fearsome, being able to OHKO 0/0 Blaziken for example (and protect you from Vacuum Wave at the same time).

Yeah but a gliscor, which is what i believe will be this sets best passer has hyper cutter. So intimidate does nothing.

Yeah, because Hyper Cutter totally gets Baton Passed...Bibarel is incredibly exposed to Intimidate regardless of who passes to him.

 

[Erodent]

Bologo - Hyper Cutter explained by iKitsune and Lee :)

Lee - Hello, I have created two separate sets; is this really necessary, or should I focus on UU? I created OU because Bibarel is something that can work in any tier bar Ubers, and quite effectively at it, too.

 

[Lee]

I'd have to say it's not worth two seperate sets tbh. Perhaps just the UU focused set with a brief mention of how it could fare in OU?

Oh, and I'm very iffy on the use of Superpower here. A -2 Atk, -2 Def drop is likely to end your sweep pretty soonish so perhaps you should put in a word of warning?

Good work though, I'm actually quite surprised that there wasn't already a Baton Pass recipient set in the analysis. For all his flaws, it's one of his niches and should be emphasised as such imo.

 

[Erodent]

That will be fine. I will entirely rewrite the analyses and merge them to create a UU-oriented Baton Pass Receiving Bibarel. In UU, Superpower is not needed any longer, I'd say, but I will definitely include a description on how Bibarel will work in OU.

Okay, I'm done for now. I'm open to comments and criticism.
Wait, so Hyper Cutter leaves Bibarel's attack lowered when Intimidated, right?

 

[Bologo]

Yeah but a gliscor, which is what i believe will be this sets best passer has hyper cutter. So intimidate does nothing.

Uhh, what? Hyper Cutter is an ability, abilities don't get Baton Passed. Of course Intimidate won't work on Gliscor, but it will sure as hell work on Bibarel, easily neutering his sweep with the attack drops.

 

[iKitsune]

Uhh, what? Hyper Cutter is an ability, abilities don't get Baton Passed. Of course Intimidate won't work on Gliscor, but it will sure as hell work on Bibarel, easily neutering his sweep with the attack drops.

True but, to answer your early point that Metagross is better in everyway if they some how manage to kill metagross idk how. Then you need something else to set up ie. Bibarel Substitute bypasses this -2 attack problem but it is still obviously a huge weakness of this set when compared to Metagross.Another sweeper is a weak reason at best to use Bibarel but there are very few other sweepers who perform this baton pass acceptor role.

Erodent I also suggest you remove the UU specific set. As if Bibarel can sweep in OU with much better physical walls and intimidaters that surely it can sweep in UU. Mention the specific support needed in both tiers too.

 

[Erodent]

Erodent I also suggest you remove the UU specific set

What?

I actually focused on UU instead of OU, where Intimidators are less common.

Hmm..I added some supportive options as well.

Bibarel, however, is not the "bulkiest bulb" around, and Dual Screen and constant Wish support will make his entrance easier. This should not be too hard with supportive options like Jirachi and the Eeveelutions around that can constantly provide support and keep the strategy going. In Underused, it is recommended that you make full use of Gligar, but other good supporters include the aforementioned Underused Eeveelutions (Leafeon, Espeon, Umbreon) who can not only Baton Pass Wish, but also Swords Dance, Dual Screens, and Mean Look respectively - you will need to set up a chain consisting of a minimum of at least two Baton Passers, however. If you decide to use Leftovers instead of Life Orb, you might consider enhancing your Baton Pass chain to even pass Defensive boosts like Amnesia and Barrier from Pokemon like Gorebyss. In Overused, you should definitely have Gliscor and Smeargle in your party. Gliscor should set up Agility and Swords Dance, while Smeargle should use Spore to put a foe to sleep, and Dragon Dance, Substitute, or Ingrain accordingly. This is especially useful if you replace Taunt with Superpower to cover Empoleon.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Remove the 28 hp iv. Your justification for it is just wrong. LO knocks off 10% of your max hp, not your hp after taking SR damage. Without some sort of recovery move, Bibarel will be able to do at most 9 attacks after switching into SR, regardless of what his max hp.

 

[TAY]

Why would you run any speed on this? With 0 speed EVs, passing it an agility makes it faster than scarf Latias and Gengar...and the chance of running into anything faster is negligible (hell, scarf gengar and latias are almost negligible). Furthermore, the main problem with Bibarel is its crap defenses, which make it a risky BP receiver, and 252 HP goes a long way towards alleviating this problem. Even with 252 speed EVs, you aren't outrunning shit in OU or in UU unless you're playing dedicated stall (and even then, maybe not). Your primary concern should be making sure Bibarel actually survives the Baton Pass.

I would use Taunt over Superpower, but that's really a matter of opinion as they are both mostly useless on this set and there are sadly no better options.

Finally, I am in complete agreement with Lee that this should not just be an OU set. In fact, it is probably better in UU (and I have even run it myself). You need to use screens anyway so...I just pass with Gligar and Blaziken.

 

[Erodent]

Phantom - Oh yeah, my bad.

TAY - I'll change that.

 

[wDro]

Giving Bibarel 12 speed EVs allows it to outspeed choice scarf starmie/azelf WITH plus speed nature. After one agility, its speed would become 181*3 = 543. Timid starmie is 541.

 

[Morty]

why do you place so much emphasis on hyper cutter? so what if, say, intimidate knocks down the passer -1. they pass a plus 2 and that goes to Bibarel as -2=4=+2. Its still better to pass +4 than +2, but it sounds odd how much importance you give hyper cutter when in most cases Bibarel will actually be less effected by a passed intimidate than most sweepers.

 

[Erodent]

wDro - Added as a brief mention in the Overused set :)

Gengar - Tbh I think the Hyper Cutter info set comments are fine.

 

[Colonel M]

I think you and I can agree that this should be geared more toward UU and have minor mentions on how it can work in OU. I'll move this into the UU subforum for now and allow others to make their judgement call there. Also, yeah, shorten this down (though you mentioned this on the moveset thread).