Amoonguss UPLOAD ME PLS <3 <3 <3

Audiosurfer

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Ok some things here:
  • Remove no support options in overview and replace with barren move pool or something, all the main set does is support support so its kinda deceiving.
  • No point going for lo zhb imo. Not seen much and special bulk is more important so current spread is fine.
  • Be sure to mention specific mons like Abomasnow and Latios in C and C. Breloom is a check you don't really cover since it can outspeed and put you to sleep and you can't do much back
  • Add stun spore somewhere
  • Mention how Amoonguss becomes alot less threatening once its put something to sleep
  • For C&C: Scizor, Metagross, Bisharp, Volcarona, Heatran, Jirachi, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Rotom-frost . Ik these all fall under one of the groups listed but mentioning these specifically as some examples would be a good idea.
  • Mention that setup mons like TG Manaphy enjoy having it as a partner
  • Say how setup mons and Substitute users can take advantage of its lack of offensive presence for free turns (especially post Spore).
  • Mention complete lack of offensive presence as a downside to using it in overview (Ik it's obviously not the goal of the set but still sucks alot)
 

Audiosurfer

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since you implemented the checks I figured I'll get you started w/ a check, if anyone else sees anything they'll comment on it but looks nice to me

QC 1/3
 
looks good to me though you should add specific fire types that can one shot it like fire gem erutptran and fire gem overheat volcarona, or just volcarona with lum berry (redirects spore and heals it off). i know you have some general stuff in c/c, but those should have specific mentions. also chandelure can be a threat since it has strong fire moves and can reverse trick room should amoonguss be used in trick room.


2/3
 
Ok, after derping up last time, imma look over this more cautiously.

Overview
Compare it to Togekiss as well as Jirachi and add Fighting and Water resistances to its upsides; neither Togekiss nor Jirachi have those key resistances, and they are pretty important to Amoonguss's success. The ability to function in Trick Room is also a key upside to Amoonguss; the other two are not slow enough to pull this off the way Amoonguss can. Amoonguss's large array of weaknesses is also a downside, Flying-, Ice-, Fire-, and Psychic-type attacks will deal heavy damage to it.

"Rage Powder" set
Mention this set's ability to either support or ruin Trick Room (depending on which side it is on), as that is one of Amoonguss's main draws. Mentioning its Fighting and Water resistances is also a good idea, specify how they let it better tank attacks like a Muddy Water from Kingdra and a Fighting Gem CC from Hitmontop.

The Other Stuff
Unless I missed it, Substitute is not in OO, it should be. Tornadus is worth a big mention in Checks & Counters, it can OHKO with Acrobatics and shut Amoonguss down with Taunt. Substitute Heatran is also great for making Amoonguss cry, it avoid Spore with it, and Amoonguss cannot do anything to it with Giga Drain.
 
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alexwolf

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What's this comparison of Amoonguss with Jirachi as Rage Powder users in both the overview and the first set's comments, Jirachi can't learn Rage Powder.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Ok, after derping up last time, imma look over this more cautiously.

Overview
Compare it to Togekiss as well as Jirachi and add Fighting and Water resistances to its upsides; neither Togekiss nor Jirachi have those key resistances, and they are pretty important to Amoonguss's success. The ability to function in Trick Room is also a key upside to Amoonguss; the other two are not slow enough to pull this off the way Amoonguss can. Amoonguss's large array of weaknesses is also a downside, Flying-, Ice-, Fire-, and Psychic-type attacks will deal heavy damage to it.

"Rage Powder" set
Mention this set's ability to either support or ruin Trick Room (depending on which side it is on), as that is one of Amoonguss's main draws. Mentioning its Fighting and Water resistances is also a good idea, specify how they let it better tank attacks like a Muddy Water from Kingdra and a Fighting Gem CC from Hitmontop.

The Other Stuff
Unless I missed it, Substitute is not in OO, it should be. Tornadus is worth a big mention in Checks & Counters, it can OHKO with Acrobatics and shut Amoonguss down with Taunt. Substitute Heatran is also great for making Amoonguss cry, it avoid Spore with it, and Amoonguss cannot do anything to it with Giga Drain.
  • Is a Togekiss comparison really necessary? Togekiss (and Volcarona) take a more offensive approach to FM usage, while Amoong and Rachi are the only real hit sponges. Besides, except a few die-hard supporters, Toge has really fallen out of favor.
  • i don't know if i'd call using one spore and then puttering around uselessly 'functioning' but i will mention that amoonguss is the only tr fmer
  • sub is already in oo
  • will mention literally anything with sub that resists GD in checks/counters, along with torn anus
implementing now, then will write up. need opinions on a togepiss comparison
 

Pocket

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I support Togekiss comparison, since it's a common Follow Me user in Doubles.
 

Laga

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Alright I am bumping this, @Pwnemon you should really get this finished writing.

Also, before this is even done writing, "The main and only reason to use Amoonguss in Doubles is because it is an incredibly bulky Rage Powder user" is not true, give Spore some love, as it is a perfectly good reason to run Amoonguss (in fact it would kinda suck without Spore).
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Also, before this is even done writing, "The main and only reason to use Amoonguss in Doubles is because it is an incredibly bulky Rage Powder user" is not true, give Spore some love, as it is a perfectly good reason to run Amoonguss (in fact it would kinda suck without Spore).
spore is nice, but you use amoonguss because you need rage powder. If you don't need rage powder, you don't use amoonguss. as such, i think my statement is entirely fair
 
I am willing to take this over if you would like Pwnemon. It seems no one really cares about Amoonguss anymore ;~;
 
Overview
  • I have found that Togekiss can work well with Trick Room too. I think you should present Amoonguss as the "best" Rage Powderer to use alongside Trick Room, not the "only" one
  • "Low Speed may be a boon under Trick Room, but outside of it, being beaten by every common Fake Out is a pain which Jirachi doesn't have to deal with." -This is more of a grammatical thing, but use "out-sped" or something like that rather than beaten; a lot of people who aren't familiar with Doubles may not understand this clearly
Set Comments
  • This looks very nice (covers what needs to be covered), but the tone seems a bit inaccurate. You (at least by my impression) talk about Amoonguss as if its weak and ineffective, which is by all means not true. I think you should try to rephrase this paragraph a bit more positively, particularly the last sentence.
Additional Comments
  • You say that Effect Spore is (basically) as good as Regenerator. If this is so, it should be slashed on the set. If this is not so, it should be rephrased to accommodate
  • The second paragraph starts off with some question sentences. While this again is more grammatical, I think it needs to sound more like: "When it comes to picking good partners for Amoonguss, there are two things to consider..."
  • I also feel some more teammates ought to be mentioned, but I really have none on my mind atm :s
Other Options
  • This looks fine, other than the negative tone (not as big in this case as it was in Set Comments, but try to rephrase the more useful options [mostly Substitute] a bit; also mention Black Sludge here as an item option, especially alongside Substitute). BE POSITIVE!
Checks and Counters
  • Very nice; the only thing I might add is that the Tornadus + Breloom core (one of my favorite anti-TR leads :>) can beat Amoonguss Trick Room leads with a OHKO followed by a Spore on the Trick Room setter

Well no one else seems to want to check this over, so:
QC APPROVAL 3/3

If anyone else has something to say, pls say it now.
 
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Stratos

Banned deucer.
oh i guess i need to say "implemented" to get people to comment further -_-

I didn't mention tornadus + breloom because that's kind of... oddly specific. i also left in the question parts; if gp wants to change those up, that's more their onus than yours. i don't know about the wording of the set comments but i tried to make it a more middle ground thing. everything else has been changed
 

Mizuhime

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you didn't mention how Amoongus messes with opposing trick room teams- Rage powder can be annoying to them, spore can sleep their setting, things like that
HP Flying thundy is a very big problem for amoongus- should be mentioned that hp flying is a 2hko in c&c's
Dragon Gem latios is a nuke and has a chance to ohko with sand or hail damage after turn
Lots can 2hko but not ohko
Hidden Power ice to oo's helps break subs of things amoongus can touch with giga wiga drain, Thundy, ect ect
 
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[Overview]

<p>The main and only reason to use Amoonguss in Doubles is because it is an incredibly bulky Rage Powder user. That's more than enough, though; being able to redirect every single-target attack in the game into an entirely expendable team member is a powerful effect for moves or Pokemon that require help setting up, such as Trick Room or Manaphy. Of the four viable Rage Powder or Follow Me users in the tier, Volcarona and Togekiss tend to mostly use offensive pressure, and have Follow Me as a card in their back pocket to redirect troublesome attacks occasionally. On the other hand, Amoonguss does have direct competition from Jirachi for a damage sponge that does little save spam Rage Powder. Compared to Jirachi, Amoonguss has more reliable healing, a great move in Spore, and arguably better bulk due to its incredibly useful Water- and Fighting-type resistances, which help it take on rain teams. However, Regenerator is not as good as it may seem; it's tempting to keep Amoonguss on life support forever, as it is certainly capable of surviving for that long, but Amoonguss is entirely useless as a last Pokemon. The biggest point in its favor, though, is that Amoonguss is usually the best choice for teams that use Rage Powder to help set up Trick Room; most of Jirachi's support movepool is sSpeed control, which is entirely useless under Trick Room, and Amoonguss has an incredibly fast Spore once it's helped set up. Furthermore, Amoonguss can be incredibly useful in beating Trick Room, since it can Spore the opposing team's setter for a guaranteed stop to the move.</p>
<p>Of course, Amoonguss isn't the easily better version of Jirachi,(AC) either. Amoonguss's movepool is nearly empty, while Jirachi's is deep. Low Speed may be a boon under Trick Room, but outside of it, being outsped by every common Fake Out is a pain which Jirachi doesn't have to deal with. Jirachi's Dragon-type resistance (and many other resistances) also help to put it above Amoonguss, though Amoonguss still has the raw bulk not to be KOed by any neutral move. Perhaps most importantly, Amoonguss lacks any offensive presence, often failing to break Substitutes of Pokemon that don't even resist Giga Drain. Still, Amoonguss's unique resistances and access to Spore make it an old standby for any team in need of a sponge.</p>
[SET]
name: Rage Powder
move 1: Rage Powder
move 2: Spore
move 3: Protect
move 4: Giga Drain
item: Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpD
ivs: 0 Speed

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Rage Powder is the main draw of this set; to put it simply, Amoonguss should not be used if your team doesn't need Rage Powder. Rage Powder simply has so many neat applications, such as helping a frail sweeper survive another turn or letting a Trick Room user set up the move without fear of Taunt. When it doesn't need to use Rage Powder, though, Amoonguss loves having Spore, a move that allows it to cripple virtually any Pokemon, though only one at a time. Amoonguss's other two moves are useful only in much more niche situations. Protect should mostly be used in the case of an obvious Fake Out (as it can outspeed Amoonguss's Rage Powder), in which case Amoonguss and its partner both protecting can save your strategy from disaster. It can also be used if Amoonguss is certainly going to be double-targeted, instead of Rage Powder, but is incredibly risky in this scenario and thus rarely advised. Giga Drain seems good at first, dealing damage and healing, but it's so weak that it can't break the Substitute of bulkier Pokemon which are neutral to it
(examples?). As such, it's really only good when Amoonguss is Taunted or can use it to secure a KO. The most important thing to remember when using Amoonguss is not to be fooled into thinking that all four of its moves are equally useful: Giga Drain and especially Protect will mostly only find themselves as options in specific situations, so after activating Sleep Clause, it's usually better off just using Rage Powder until it is KOed.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Amoonguss's Speed is absolutely minimized because it is used most of the time under Trick Room, in which case it usually becomes the fastest Pokemon on the field and can Spore almost anything. Meanwhile, his its given EV spread allows him it to tank almost every hit in the game; 64 Defense EVs let him lets it survive a non-item-boosted Metagross Zen Headbutt from Metagross, and putting the rest in Special Defense is just enough to avoid the KO from a full health non-item-boosted Heatran Eruption from Heatran. These EVs, in conjunction with Sitrus Berry letting Amoonguss take yet another 25% of its max HP in punishment, guarantees that it almost always lives to the second turn, being able to Rage Powder again or Spore an opponent. It still must be aware, however, of a 2HKO, if the opponent leads with two strong attackers, which can just as quickly end its run before it can use Spore. However, if Thundurus is a major threat to your team, Mental Herb Amoonguss can redirect his its attacks (all of which he Amoonguss shrugs off) without worrying about being shut down by Taunt. Effect Spore's 30% status effect is great when it activates, but it is less reliable than Regenerator and doesn't boost Amoonguss's greatest selling point, his its longevity. Amoonguss's Speed tier is also almost fully customizable, if you are not running him it on a Trick Room team, since he Amoonguss has another junk stat in Attack and 31 IVs to work with. For example, 27 Speed IV Calm Amoonguss can outspeed paralyzed Choice Scarf Tyranitar outside of Trick Room, while still outspeeding minimized base 50 Speed Pokemon in Trick Room.</p>
<p>When it comes to picking good partners for Amoonguss, the two most important things to consider are as follows: 1) Does this Pokemon appreciate Rage Powder support more than any other type of support? For example, if it needs a little help dealing damage, Helping Hand users would be better, or if it is kind of slow, but not Trick Room slow, then Paralysis or Tailwind support is optimal. 2) Is this Pokemon irreparably weak to common spread moves? If it is, then Amoonguss cannot help, since Rage Powder does not redirect Earthquake, Surf, Heat Wave, etc. What this paring process generally leaves is Pokemon which function well either after a turn of setup or under Trick Room. For example, Tail Glow Manaphy appreciates Amoonguss's redirecting of powerful Electric, Grass, and Dragon attacks and can spam powerful Surfs while doing minimal damage to Amoonguss. Another infamous teammate is Water Spout Jellicent paired up with Amoonguss, since Amoonguss can redirect Taunts that would stop Jellicent from using Trick Room, while simultaneously redirecting all single-target moves so Water Spout stays at full power. Many such team options are possible with Amoonguss—though it is important to make sure that Amoonguss is not on your team only to help out one other Pokemon.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Amoonguss without Rage Powder and Spore should literally never be considered. Protect and Giga Drain serve niche, but equally important
,(AC) roles in making sure the set can fulfill its function: Protect so it is not Fake Out weak and Giga Drain so it is not Taunt bait or absolutely useless once it has used Spore (not to mention entirely necessary in the case of Amoonguss being your last Pokemon). As such, its moveslot customization options are extremely limited, but they do exist. First, Giga Drain can be replaced with Sludge Bomb or Grass Knot for more situational power but less overall utility. It can also be scrapped for Clear Smog, but Volcarona and Bisharp, two of the most common Pokemon in Doubles to have a boost, do not fear it. Stun Spore and Toxic seem on the surface like appear to be good options for Amoonguss since they are more crippling than Giga Drain in almost all cases, but they leave it completely open to Taunt and are thus inadvisable. Synthesis is a bad idea in most cases because although it lets you Amoonguss use Rage Powder more times over the course of the match, Amoonguss has to stop using Rage Powder in order to use Synthesis, and the turn wasted is rarely worth it. Substitute over Protect trades the ability to block Fake Outs on turn 1 one with the great utility of being able to redirect non-damaging effects at no cost, but is hard to set up. That said, it is probably Amoonguss's best alternative move, since it can be extremely useful. Hidden Power Ice can be used on teams that need a check to Flying- and Dragon-types such as Thundurus, Salamence, and Shaymin-Sky, but is only 2/3 two-thirds as strong as Giga Drain on neutrals and doesn't have any healing property. The only other move that Amoonguss should ever consider is After You, as it allows Trick Room teams running a fast tech to use that Pokemon while Trick Room is up without any ill effects. Lastly, Amoonguss can run Lum Berry, which is extremely useful for Spore Breloom and Amoonguss leads but absolutely pointless otherwise, or Black Sludge, which is better than Sitrus Berry if Amoonguss survives more than four turns, but should only be considered alongside Substitute, as otherwise Amoonguss should not be on the field that long.</p>
[Checks and Counters]

<p>The best way to counter Amoonguss is not to chip away at it—as long as it's it has redirected attacks, it's it has done its job. The best way to counter Amoonguss is to keep it from using Rage Powder and Spore at all. As such, Taunt is absolutely invaluable, as is Fake Out, as long as the Amoonguss user is not prepared for those moves. Though spread moves such as Heatran's Heat Wave or Abomasnow's Blizzard don't actually stop Rage Powder, they circumvent it, while simultaneously dealing a massive chunk of damage to Amoonguss, and are thus some of your best options. If you can OHKO Amoonguss (especially with a fast Pokemon, whose partner can then proceed to attack Amoonguss's partner), it's a great way to beat it. Note that this basically will require a Gem-boosted STAB move, such as Tornadus's Acrobatics or Chandelure's Heat Wave. Speaking of Chandelure, it is the number one way to beat Amoonguss which are on Trick Room teams, as it can Imprison Trick Room instead of having to Taunt to stop it, and can OHKO Amoonguss with Heat Wave while simultaneously attacking its partner. Though they can't ignore Rage Powder, Bbulky or Grass-resisting Pokemon with Substitute have nothing at all to fear from Amoonguss, who which cannot break their Substitutes or Spore them when they are behind one. Lastly, Spore Breloom functions as a pseudo-Taunt user, being able to shut down Amoonguss for a couple of turns, but is very frail. If your team carries none of the above, the best way to beat Amoonguss is simply to beat it down as quickly as possible and remember not to target its partner with a single-target move that Amoonguss resists.</p>

1/2
 
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Additions
removals
Comments

[Overview]

<p>The main and only reason to use Amoonguss in Doubles is because it is an incredibly bulky Rage Powder user. That's more than enough, though; being able to redirect every single-target attack in the game into an entirely expendable team member is a powerful effect for moves or Pokemon that require help setting up, such as Trick Room setters(trick room isn't a poke)or Manaphy. Of the four viable Rage Powder or Follow Me users in the tier, Volcarona and Togekiss tend to mostly use offensive pressure, and have Follow Me as a card in their back pocket to redirect troublesome attacks occasionally. On the other hand, Amoonguss does have direct competition from Jirachi for a damage sponge that does little save spam Rage Powder. Compared to Jirachi, Amoonguss has more reliable healing, a great move in Spore, and arguably better bulk due to its incredibly useful Water- and Fighting-type resistances, which help it take on rain teams. However, Regenerator is not as good as it may seem; it's tempting to keep Amoonguss on life support forever, as it is certainly capable of surviving for that long, but Amoonguss is entirely useless as a last Pokemon. The biggest point in its favor, though, is that Amoonguss is usually the best choice for teams that use Rage Powder to help set up Trick Room; most of Jirachi's support movepool is Speed control, which is entirely useless under Trick Room, and Amoonguss has an incredibly fast Spore once it's helped set it up. Furthermore, Amoonguss can be incredibly useful in beating Trick Room, since it can Spore the opposing team's setter for a guaranteed stop to the move.</p>
(line break)
<p>Of course, Amoonguss isn't the easily better version of Jirachi, either. Amoonguss's movepool is nearly empty, while Jirachi's is deep. Low Speed may be a boon under Trick Room, but outside of it, being outsped by every common Fake Out is a pain which Jirachi doesn't have to deal with. Jirachi's Dragon-type resistance (and many other resistances) also help to put it above Amoonguss, though Amoonguss still has the raw bulk not to be KOed by any neutral move. Perhaps most importantly, Amoonguss lacks any offensive presence, often failing to break Substitutes of Pokemon that don't even resist Giga Drain. Still, Amoonguss's unique resistances and access to Spore make it an old standby for any team in need of a sponge.</p>
(Needs moar line break)
[SET]
name: Rage Powder
move 1: Rage Powder
move 2: Spore
move 3: Protect
move 4: Giga Drain
item: Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpD

ivs: 0 Speed
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Rage Powder is the main draw of this set; to put it simply, Amoonguss should not be used if your team doesn't need Rage Powder. Rage Powder simply has so many neat applications, such as helping a frail sweeper survive another turn or letting a Trick Room user set up the move without fear of Taunt. When it doesn't need to use Rage Powder, though, Amoonguss loves having Spore, a move that allows it to cripple virtually any Pokemon, though only one at a time. Amoonguss's other two moves are useful only in much more niche situations. Protect should mostly be used in the case of an obvious Fake Out (as it can outspeed Amoonguss's Rage Powder), in which case Amoonguss and its partner both protecting can save your strategy from disaster. It can also be used if Amoonguss is certainly going to be double-targeted, instead of Rage Powder, but is incredibly risky in this scenario and thus rarely advised. Giga Drain seems good at first, dealing damage and healing, but it's so weak that it can't break the Substitute of bulkier Pokemon which are neutral to it
(examples?). As such, it's really only good when Amoonguss is Taunted or can use it to secure a KO. The most important thing to remember when using Amoonguss is not to be fooled into thinking that all four of its moves are equally useful: Giga Drain and especially Protect will mostly only find themselves as options in specific situations, so after activating Sleep Clause, it's usually better off just using Rage Powder until it is KOed.</p>
(Liiiiime breeeeeK)
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Amoonguss's Speed is absolutely minimized because it is used most of the time under Trick Room, in which case it usually becomes the fastest Pokemon on the field and can Spore almost anything. Meanwhile, its given EV spread allows it to tank almost every hit in the game; 64 Defense EVs lets it survive an unboosted non-item-boosted Zen Headbutt from Metagross, and putting the rest in Special Defense is just enough to avoid the KO from a full health unboosted non-item-boosted Eruption from Heatran. These EVs, in conjunction with Sitrus Berry letting Amoonguss take yet another 25% of its max HP in punishment, guarantees that it almost always lives to the second turn, being able to Rage Powder again or Spore an opponent. It still must be aware, however, of a 2HKO, if the opponent leads with two strong attackers, which can just as quickly end its run before it can use Spore. However, if Thundurus is a major threat to your team, Mental Herb Amoonguss can redirect its attacks (all of which Amoonguss shrugs off) without worrying about being shut down by Taunt. Effect Spore's 30% status effect is great when it activates, but it is less reliable than Regenerator and doesn't boost Amoonguss's greatest selling point, its longevity. Amoonguss's Speed tier is also almost fully customizable,(RC) if you are not running it on a Trick Room team, since Amoonguss has another junk stat in Attack and 31 IVs to work with. For example, neutral Amoonguss with 27 Speed IVs Calm Amoonguss can outspeed paralyzed Choice Scarf Tyranitar outside of Trick Room, while still outspeeding minimized base 50 Speed Pokemon in Trick Room.</p>
(line break like everywhere with the <p> stuff)
<p>When it comes to picking good partners for Amoonguss, the two most important things to consider are as follows: 1) Does this Pokemon appreciate Rage Powder support more than any other type of support? For example, if it needs a little help dealing damage, Helping Hand users would be better, or if it is kind of slow, but not Trick Room slow, then Paralysis or Tailwind support is optimal. 2) Is this Pokemon irreparably weak to common spread moves? If it is, then Amoonguss cannot help, since Rage Powder does not redirect Earthquake, Surf, Heat Wave, etc. What this paring process generally leaves is Pokemon which function well either after a turn of setup or under Trick Room. For example, Tail Glow Manaphy appreciates Amoonguss's redirecting of powerful Electric, Grass, and Dragon attacks and can spam powerful Surfs while doing minimal damage to Amoonguss. Another infamous teammate is Water Spout Jellicent paired up with Amoonguss, since Amoonguss can redirect Taunts that would stop Jellicent from using Trick Room, while simultaneously redirecting all single-target moves so Water Spout stays at full power. Many such team options are possible with Amoonguss—though it is important to make sure that Amoonguss is not on your team only to help out one other Pokemon.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Amoonguss without Rage Powder and Spore should literally never be considered. Protect and Giga Drain serve niche, but equally important
, roles in making sure the set can fulfill its function: Protect so it is not Fake Out weak and Giga Drain so it is not Taunt bait or absolutely useless once it has used Spore (not to mention entirely necessary in the case of Amoonguss being your last Pokemon). As such, its moveslot customization options are extremely limited, but they do exist. First, Giga Drain can be replaced with Sludge Bomb or Grass Knot for more situational power but less overall utility. It can also be scrapped for Clear Smog, but Volcarona and Bisharp, two of the most common Pokemon in Doubles to have a boosting move, do not fear it. Stun Spore and Toxic appear to be good options for Amoonguss since they are more crippling than Giga Drain in almost all cases, but they leave it completely open to Taunt and are thus inadvisable. Synthesis is a bad idea in most cases because although it lets Amoonguss use Rage Powder more times over the course of the match, Amoonguss has to stop using Rage Powder in order to use Synthesis, and the turn wasted is rarely worth it. Substitute over Protect trades the ability to block Fake Outs on turn one with the great utility of being able to redirect non-damaging effects at no cost, but is hard to set up. That said, it is probably Amoonguss's best alternative move, since it can be extremely useful. Hidden Power Ice can be used on teams that need a check to Flying- and Dragon-types such as Thundurus, Salamence, and Shaymin-S, but is only two-thirds as strong as Giga Drain on Pokemon hit neutrally neutrals and doesn't have any healing property. The only other move that Amoonguss should ever consider is After You, as it allows Trick Room teams running a fast tech to use that Pokemon while Trick Room is up without any ill effects. Lastly, Amoonguss can run Lum Berry, which is extremely useful for Spore Breloom and opposing Amoonguss leads but absolutely pointless otherwise, or Black Sludge, which is better than Sitrus Berry if Amoonguss survives more than four turns, but should only be considered alongside Substitute, as otherwise Amoonguss should not be on the field that long.</p>
(line break)
[Checks and Counters]

<p>The best way to counter Amoonguss is not to chip away at it—as long as it has redirected attacks, it has done its job. The best way to counter Amoonguss is to keep it from using Rage Powder and Spore at all. As such, Taunt is absolutely invaluable, as is Fake Out, as long as the Amoonguss user is not prepared for those moves. Though spread moves such as Heatran's Heat Wave or Abomasnow's Blizzard don't actually stop Rage Powder, they circumvent it, while simultaneously dealing a massive chunk of damage to Amoonguss, and are thus some of your best(remove space). If you the opposing Pokemon can OHKO Amoonguss (especially with a fast Pokemon, whose partner can then proceed to attack Amoonguss's partner), it's a great way to beat it. Note that this basically will require a Gem-boosted STAB move, such as Tornadus's Acrobatics or Chandelure's Heat Wave. Speaking of Chandelure, it is the number one way to beat Amoonguss which are on Trick Room teams, as it can Imprison Trick Room instead of having to Taunt to stop it, and can OHKO Amoonguss with Heat Wave while simultaneously attacking its partner. Though they can't ignore Rage Powder, bulky or Grass-resisting Pokemon with Substitute have nothing at all to fear from Amoonguss, which cannot break their Substitutes or Spore them when they are behind one. Lastly, Spore Breloom functions as a pseudo-Taunt user, being able to shut down Amoonguss for a couple of turns, but is very frail. If your team carries none of the above, the best way to beat Amoonguss is simply to beat it down as quickly as possible and remember not to target its partner with a single-target move that Amoonguss resists.</p>

Hope this helped.
Oh yeah, and implemented piikachuu's gp check before editing :)
 
I miss when this was NU
Additions in Blue
Subtractions in Red
Comments in Purple
[Overview]

<p>The main and only reason to use Amoonguss in Doubles is because it is an incredibly bulky Rage Powder user. That's more than enough, though; being able to redirect every single-target attack in the game into towards an entirely expendable team member is a powerful effect for is very useful when using moves or Pokemon that require help setting up, such as Trick Room or and Manaphy. Of the four viable Rage Powder or Follow Me users in the tier, Volcarona and Togekiss tend to mostly use offensive pressure, and have Follow Me as a card in their back pocket to redirect troublesome attacks occasionally. On the other hand, Amoonguss does have only has direct competition from Jirachi for as a damage sponge that does little save spam Rage Powder (add comma) as Volcarona and Togekiss tend to mostly use offensive pressure and have Follow Me more as a card in their back pockets to redirect troublesome attacks occasionally. Compared to Jirachi, Amoonguss has more reliable healing, a great move in Spore, and arguably better bulk due to its incredibly useful Water- and Fighting-type resistances, which help it take on rain teams. However, Regenerator is not as good as it may might seem; it's tempting to keep Amoonguss on life support forever, as it is certainly capable of surviving for that long, but Amoonguss is entirely useless as a last Pokemon. The biggest point in its favor, though, is that Amoonguss is usually the best choice for teams that use Rage Powder to help set up Trick Room; most of Jirachi's support movepool is Speed speed control, which is entirely useless under Trick Room, and Amoonguss has an incredibly fast Spore once it's helped set up. Furthermore, Amoonguss can be quite useful in beating Trick Room, since as it can Spore the opposing team's setter for a an almost guaranteed stop to the move.</p>

<p>Of course, Amoonguss isn't the easily better version of than Jirachi, either. Amoonguss's movepool is nearly empty, while Jirachi's is deep. Low Speed may might be a boon under Trick Room, but outside of it, being outsped by every common Fake Out is a pain which that Jirachi doesn't have to deal with. Jirachi's Dragon-type resistance (and many other resistances) also help to put it above Amoonguss, though Amoonguss still has the raw bulk not to be KOed by any neutral move most neutral moves. Perhaps most importantly, Amoonguss lacks any offensive presence, often failing to break Substitutes of Pokemon that don't even resist Giga Drain. Still, Amoonguss's unique resistances and access to Spore make it an old standby for any team in need of a sponge.</p>

[SET]
name: Rage Powder
move 1: Rage Powder
move 2: Spore
move 3: Protect
move 4: Giga Drain
item: Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpD
ivs: 0 Speed Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Rage Powder is the main draw of this set; to put it simply, Amoonguss should not be used if your team doesn't need Rage Powder. Rage Powder simply has so many neat applications, such as helping a frail sweeper survive another turn or letting a Trick Room user set up the move without fear of Taunt. When it doesn't need to use Rage Powder, (remove comma) though, Amoonguss loves having Spore, a move that allows it to cripple virtually any Pokemon, though only one at a time. Amoonguss's other two moves are useful only in much more niche situations. Protect should mostly be used in the case of an obvious Fake Out (as it can outspeed Amoonguss's Rage Powder), in which case Amoonguss and its partner both protecting can save your strategy from disaster. It can also be used instead of Rage Powder if Amoonguss is certainly going to be double-targeted, instead of Rage Powder, but predicting this is incredibly risky in this scenario and thus rarely advised. Giga Drain seems good at first, dealing damage and healing, but it's so weak that it can't break the Substitute of bulkier Pokemon which that are neutral to it, such as Garchomp. As such, it's really only good when Amoonguss is Taunted or can use it to secure a KO. The most important thing to remember when using Amoonguss is not to be fooled into thinking that all four of its moves are equally useful: Giga Drain and especially Protect will mostly only find themselves as options in specific situations, so after activating Sleep Clause, it's Amoonguss is usually better off just using Rage Powder until it is KOed.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Amoonguss's Speed is absolutely minimized because it is used most of the time under Trick Room, in which case it usually becomes the fastest Pokemon on the field and can Spore almost anything. Meanwhile, its given EV spread allows it to tank almost every hit in the game; 64 Defense EVs lets let it survive a non-item-boosted Zen Headbutt from Metagross, and putting the rest in Special Defense is just enough to avoid the KO from a full health non-item-boosted Eruption from Heatran. These EVs, in conjunction with Sitrus Berry letting Amoonguss When Sitrus Berry is used in conjunction with these EVs, Amoonguss can take yet another 25% of its max HP in punishment, guarantees guaranteeing that it almost always lives to the second turn, being able to Rage Powder again or Spore an opponent. It though it still must be aware, however, of a 2HKO, wary of being 2HKOed if the opponent leads with two strong attackers, which can just as quickly end its run before it can use Spore. (there are other ways to change this if you don't like what I did, but the two ideas of things to watch out for when using Sitrus Berry and Mental Herb is an alternative seemed a little awkward here) However, if Thundurus is a major threat to your team, Mental Herb Amoonguss can use Mental Herb to redirect its attacks (all of which Amoonguss shrugs off) without worrying about being shut down by Taunt. Effect Spore's 30% status effect is great when it activates, but it is less reliable than Regenerator and doesn't boost Amoonguss's greatest selling point, (change to colon) his longevity. Amoonguss's Speed tier is also almost fully customizable, (remove comma) if you are not running him on a Trick Room team, since heas it has another junk stat in Attack and 31 IVs to work with. For example, 27 Speed IV Calm Amoonguss can outspeed paralyzed Choice Scarf Tyranitar outside of Trick Room, while still outspeeding outpacing minimized base 50 Speed Pokemon in Trick Room.</p>

<p>When it comes to picking good partners for Amoonguss, the two most important things to consider are as follows: 1) Does this Pokemon appreciate Rage Powder support more than any other type of support? For example, if it needs a little help dealing damage, Helping Hand users would be better, or if it is kind of slow, but not Trick Room slow, then Paralysis paralysis or Tailwind support is optimal. 2) Is this Pokemon irreparably weak to common spread moves? If it is, then Amoonguss cannot help, since as Rage Powder does not redirect Earthquake, Surf, Heat Wave, etc. What this paring process generally leaves is Pokemon which that function well either after a turn of setup or under Trick Room. For example, Tail Glow Manaphy appreciates Amoonguss's redirecting of powerful Electric, Grass, and Dragon attacks and can spam powerful Surfs while doing minimal damage to Amoonguss. Another infamous well-known teammate is Water Spout Jellicent paired up with Amoonguss, since as Amoonguss can redirect Taunts that would stop Jellicent from using Trick Room, while simultaneously redirecting all single-target moves so Water Spout stays at full power. Many such team options are possible with Amoonguss—though it is important to make sure that Amoonguss is not on your team only to help out one other Pokemon.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Amoonguss without Rage Powder and Spore should literally never be considered. Protect and Giga Drain serve niche, but equally important, roles in making sure the set can fulfill its function: Protect so it is not Fake Out weak and Giga Drain so it is not Taunt bait or and absolutely useless once it has used Spore (not to mention entirely necessary in the case of Amoonguss being your last Pokemon). As such, its Amoonguss's moveslot customization options are extremely limited, but they do exist. First, Giga Drain can be replaced with Sludge Bomb or Grass Knot for more situational power but less overall utility. It can also be scrapped for Clear Smog, but Volcarona and Bisharp, two of the most common boosting Pokemon in Doubles to have a boost, do not fear it. Stun Spore and Toxic appear to be good options for Amoonguss since as they are more crippling than Giga Drain in almost all cases, but they leave it completely open to Taunt and are thus inadvisable. Synthesis is a bad idea in most cases because although it lets Amoonguss use Rage Powder more times over the course of the match, Amoonguss has to stop using Rage Powder in order to use Synthesis, and the turn wasted is rarely worth it. Substitute over Protect trades the ability to block Fake Outs on turn one with the great utility of being able to redirect non-damaging effects at no cost, but it is hard to set up. That said, it is probably Amoonguss's best alternative move, since as it can be extremely useful. (maybe move it to earlier then? Your call though) Hidden Power Ice can be used on teams that need a check to Flying- and Dragon-types such as Thundurus, Salamence, and Shaymin-S, but it is only two-thirds as strong as Giga Drain on neutrals against neutral targets and doesn't have any healing property. The only other move that Amoonguss should ever consider is After You, as it allows Trick Room teams running a fast tech (should this be a different word or is this just a term I don't know?) to use that Pokemon while Trick Room is up without any ill effects. Lastly, Amoonguss can run Lum Berry, which is extremely useful for Spore Breloom and Amoonguss leads but absolutely pointless otherwise, or Black Sludge, which is better than Sitrus Berry if Amoonguss survives more than four turns, but should only be considered alongside Substitute, as otherwise Amoonguss should not be on the field that long.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The best way to counter Amoonguss is not to chip away at it—as long as it has redirected attacks, it has done its job. The best way to counter Amoonguss is to keep it from using Rage Powder and Spore at all. As such, Taunt is absolutely invaluable, as is Fake Out, as long as the Amoonguss user is not prepared for those moves. Though spread moves such as Heatran's Heat Wave or and Abomasnow's Blizzard don't actually stop Rage Powder, they circumvent it, (remove comma) while simultaneously dealing a massive chunk of damage to Amoonguss, (remove comma) and are thus some of your best options. If you can OHKO Amoonguss (especially with a fast Pokemon, whose partner can then proceed to attack Amoonguss's partner), it's a great way to beat it. Note that this basically will require a Gem-boosted STAB move, such as Tornadus's Acrobatics or Chandelure's Heat Wave. Speaking of Chandelure, it is the number one way to beat Amoonguss which are on Trick Room teams, as it can Imprison Trick Room instead of having to Taunt to stop it, (remove comma) and can OHKO Amoonguss with Heat Wave while simultaneously attacking its partner. Though they can't ignore Rage Powder, bulky or Grass-resisting Pokemon with Substitute have nothing at all to fear from Amoonguss, which cannot break their Substitutes or Spore them when they are behind one. Lastly, Spore Breloom functions as a pseudo-Taunt user, being able to shut down Amoonguss for a couple of turns, but is very frail. If your team carries none of the above, the best way to beat Amoonguss is simply to beat it down as quickly as possible and remember not to target its partner with a single-target move that Amoonguss resists.</p>


GP: 2/2
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
thanks a ton, melvni!

for the record, a tech is a pokemon you run on your team for a specific situation or threat instead of for what it contributes to the team 'as a whole.' it's a term used in a ton of competitive communities, and smogon is actually one of the only ones where I infrequently see it used. For example, a team with no real flaws except a glaring weakness to rotom-w might run Gastrodon as a tech, and literally never make use of it unless the opponent had a rotom-wash. i'm really not sure tech is the right word there either, but i can't think of anything else that fits better
 

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