Darumaka @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Super Power
i think that Darumaka is a B+ rank pokemon.
It can OHKO most things in LC including Timburr.
Great movepool Great stats Great ability(you are taking a risk with hustle because if you miss you're dead)
Hey, welcome to LC!
I think you missed this in the original post:
Also don't nominate a Pokemon to move up more than 2 sub rankings. There are instances where this is needed, such as when a new mechanic is discovered, but usually it is not and in fact nominations of such a large jump tend to be disagreed on by the community at large.
The reason behind this guideline is that significant discussion has already gone into individual rankings (note that not all of it is in this thread - many of the rankings were carried over from the ORAS viability rankings). Small adjustments in individual placements are needed to account for metagame shifts, but a large nomination, such as Darumaka all the way from C+ to B+, ignores and discredits the reasoning behind the current placement.
The exception is for new mechanics, but this doesn't apply for CB Darumaka, which has been around since gen 5. LC generally does not favour slow and frail but powerful attackers due to its offensive nature; CB Darumaka has a lot of difficulty getting into play, and will almost always be forced out after a single KO. In other words, you will often have to sacrifice a Pokemon just to get Darumaka in for a one for one trade that ends with momentum with the opponent, which isn't worth it. This is on top of how Darumaka is a) vulnerable to every entry hazard, which leaves it very prone to being worn down in conjunction with Flare Blitz's recoil, meaning the one for one trade can only be done so many times; b) frail without Eviolite, so if Hustle comes into play and Darumaka misses, it will likely be KOed, which turns the one for one trade into a zero for two; and c) essentially a dead weight against many offensive teams, as it isn't uncommon for entire teams to be 17 Speed or over, allowing them to outspeed and KO Darumaka. Spritzee is an important Pokemon that Darumaka is able to safely switch into, but between Stealth Rock and Flare Blitz recoil, it will often only be able to do so once throughout the match.
Choice Scarf is usually considered Darumaka's best set, as its superior Speed tier allows it to threaten entire teams with the potential for a 2HKO or OHKO once it comes in on the revenge-kill, while not being nearly as easy to revenge kill as the Choice Band set. However, this set still suffers greatly from its unreliability, and its low Speed tier and vulnerability to strong priority means that it is still quite easy to force out. It also suffers from Rufflet as a Hustle abuser despite their different typings, as Rufflet hits a better Speed tier and has more switchin opportunities due to its immunity to Ground and Spikes while still being able to 2HKO most of the metagame.
Be sure to carefully consider a Pokemon's drawbacks when nominating it to move up. For higher rankings, it is also important to take into account how easily a Pokemon fits onto a team, which is another one of Darumaka's weak points; its frailty and lack of useful resistances means that it is often passed up for Pokemon with more defensive utility.
Litleo: Unranked up to C+
This is different from Darumaka's case because Litleo did not have Flare Blitz before. Physical Litleo was awful when its strongest Fire STAB was Fire Fang, forcing it to go special, where it was completely overshadowed by the faster Ponyta, stronger Vulpix, and both stronger and more versatile Houndour, leaving it with no reason to be included on a competitive team. With Flare Blitz, it can now properly take advantage of Moxie boosts, leaving it with a unique and significant niche as a relatively fast snowballing sweeper (as opposed to Scraggy) that doesn't have to carry a Choice Scarf (as opposed to Sandile).
Of course, if there turn out to be a lot of success stories in Litleo, it could definitely move up, but I think that mid C is a good initial placement for it. I'm concerned about how difficult it is to get both a Flame Charge and Moxie boost due to how weak Litleo is initially. Even if there is a slower, weakened Pokemon that is forced out by Flame Charge, a combination of Flame Charge and Inferno Overdrive fails to OHKO most healthy Eviolite holding Pokemon:
196 Atk Litleo Flame Charge vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
(4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6)
196 Atk Litleo Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)
On top of that, if Inferno Overdrive is used up to get the Moxie boost, then Litleo has to rely on a +1 Flare Blitz to sweep, which is even weaker than +0 Inferno Overdrive:
+1 196 Atk Litleo Flare Blitz vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)
So Litleo will need quite a lot of Pokemon to be weakened beforehand before it has a real shot at sweeping bulky offense and balance. Against hyper offense, it faces the additional issue of being able to set up at all, seeing how its bulk isn't very good without Eviolite and it's vulnerable to entry hazards.
Litleo also becomes fairly easy to revenge-kill with priority after Stealth Rock and some recoil damage.
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Croagunk, Alolan Grimer, Kabuto, Wynaut (up)
Expect all of these to move up in the next update; it doesn't look like anybody disagrees with them being ranked way too low. Kabuto hasn't seen much discussion in this thread, but its ranking is frequently brought up in discussions on discord and showdown. Note that Wynaut is moving up solely on its merits in a metagame where easily trappable Pokemon like Timburr and Staryu are omnipresent; Gothita being banned shouldn't be part of the reasoning here when Wynaut's standard set has been well defined since DPP, and it was considered C to C+ material back in gen 6 well before Gothita became prevalent.
Sandshrew being moved up also hasn't seen any disagreements yet, but it also hasn't seen that much discussion to begin with.
Vulpix, Bellsprout, Cherubi (up)
Agree with Nineage that Vulpix and Bellsprout should be at the same rank, whether that's B+ or A-, based on how we consider Sun. Vulpix does have some sets like Life Orb and Choice Scarf to fit onto general offense outside of Sun, whereas Bellsprout is almost entirely dependent on Vulpix to succeed. However, non-support Vulpix sets suffer as standalone Pokemon due to how easily forced out they are due to terrible bulk and only decent Speed, coupled with how punishing being forced out is to them because of the weakness to hazards. We shouldn't take these alternative Vulpix sets into account for the same reason we don't take into account a Scarf set for Snivy's ranking (though less extreme); they're pretty much C+ level sets, and aren't worth considering for a nomination to A- or A.
As for Vulpix and Bellsprout's actual rank, keep in mind that Sun is a very specific archetype to begin with, and though Vulpix/Bellsprout are just about mandatory on Sun teams, they're nowhere near A or even B level on other archetypes, and so are much less splashable overall than everything in the A ranks. That being said, Sun is in such a strong state right now that we end up seeing a lot of Vulpixes and Bellsprouts anyways, so A- is definitely justifiable.
Triple Chlorophyll Sun is hot as hell, I don't know where all this hate is coming from. But Cherubi does actually have some use on double Chlorophyll, even if Bulbasaur is usually the better choice, because Healing Wish makes it much easier to preserve Vulpix so that the team can less riskily forgo a secondary Sun setter. A strong Weather Ball is also a more useful coverage move alongside Solar Beam than anything other Chlorophyll sweepers (outside of Bellsprout) have to offer, including Bulbasaur's Sludge Bomb, so Cherubi can still pull its weight offensively despite not having Bulbasaur's Speed or defensive typing. Weather Ball makes Cherubi so much more immediately threatening than most Chlorophyll sweepers, and Healing Wish supports Vulpix so well, that Cherubi is easily the third best Chlorophyll sweeper, and genuinely has enough merits to compete with Bulbasaur for a slot on a legitimate competitive strategy in double Chlorophyll, which qualifies it for D, though it probably isn't enough to get Cherubi into the C ranks.
Tirtouga, Alolan Sandshrew, Snubbull (up); Carvanha, Pawniard (down)
There are some other nominations on previous pages that could see more discussion, but these are the most important. Nineage sums up why I don't think Tirtouga should move up, and I already explained my thoughts on Billy's drawbacks on the previous page. I actually feel that Alolan Sandshrew is closer to moving down because its weak STAB moves and common weaknesses give it a negative matchup against a large portion of the metagame, which tends to cut sweeps from Hail variants short and prevents support variants from doing much more than suicide Spinning; it doesn't help that Hail gets outshined by Sun in more ways than one.
An update should be coming soon. Also, nineage is part of the viability ranking council now.