This thread for discussing formerly Ubers Gen 5 Pokemon that are getting freed with the release of Gen 6.
Base Stats: 45 HP / 90 Atk / 20 Def / 65 SpA / 20 SpD / 65 Spe
Ability: Speed Boost
Opinion: Carvanha has always had its uses and I don't see it changing. Before it received Speed Boost in Gen 5, it was a regular wall breaker that had access to a priority move to hinder revenge killers. However, now it is built for sweeping. Speed Boost, high Attack (and Special Attack), and the same movepool that made it an incredible wall breaker all add up to be a very big threat. If you were looking for something to accept a Gligar Swords Dance, this it it.
Counters/Checks: Carvanha does have some counters and checks even though nothing quite enjoys switching in. Anything very bulky that remains neutral to Carvanha's STABs and not weak to things like Zen Headbutt will do a lot of good. Obviously Tangela jumps out as something that walls every physical oriented Carvanha, and even checks special variants. Wooper, Lileep, and other odd-ball Pokemon can switch into Carvanha and Recover off the damage. Even with Zen Headbutt, Timburr can be a decent switch-in with Mach Punch to threaten Carvanha's frail defenses and its immense bulk to take a Waterfall if it has to. If you're looking to revenge, stay away from Fake Out because Carvanha tends to use Protect. Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, and maybe a powerful ExtremeSpeed will do the trick against Carvanha, but the problem is that most the Pokemon that use these moves will need prediction to get in.
Meditite
Base Stats: 30 HP / 40 Atk / 55 Def / 40 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe
Ability: Pure Power, (Telepathy)
Opinion: Meditite was initially scary because of his monstrous Attack combined with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb priority, making him almost impossible to wall and revenge kill. These sets were very popular throughout early Gen 5 LC because there were still powerhouses in the tier. However, it was quickly discovered (with the huge impact of Eviolite) that Meditite was the simply the best Pokemon in the tier (at the time) because of other reasons. Since Sneasel, Scyther, etc. got banned, and with the help of Eviolite and some bulky EVs, Meditite soon became one of the hardest Pokemon to deal with. It had very solid coverage with STABs and Ice Punch and couldn't even be KOed by anything besides Acrobatics Gligar. Drain Punch and Recover supplied Meditite with insane longevity while still posting 24-26 Attack. I'm not sure if it gets anything new like Knock Off, but Meditite is scary enough as is.
Counters/Checks: Switching into Meditite was a job for very few Pokemon and it usually relying heavily on prediction. Frillish and Misdreavus were somewhat reliable with HP and great typing, however it still hurts when Meditite threw a surprise Zen Headbutt. Murkrow could switch into Zen Headbutt and KO with Brave Bird, but risks getting destroyed by anything else. Revenge killing was difficult with Eviolite, but Shadow Balls from Misdreavus and Brave Birds from Murkrow are the best bet. If it's hit with Toxic I'm also fairly sure Eviolite Gligar can stall it out. Drifloon's Acrobatics set can set up on it as well.
Gligar
Base Stats: 65 HP / 75 Atk / 105 Def / 35 SpA / 65 SpD / 85 Spe
Ability: Hyper Cutter, Sand Veil
Opinion: Gligar was one of the last Pokemon to go on the Ban list and it is always a very curious case. In Gligar's history, it has always been tip-toeing on the line of broken and not broken. What keeps it on the line is the fact that its specific sets are were generally referred to as not broken, but what eventually pushed it over is the fact that it had so many viable sets that needed different counters, checks, and methods of dealing with them. Leading the sets was the famous Swords Dance set that used Flying Gem and Acrobatics along with Earthquake. The fourth move made Gligar scary because it could be a 4th coverage move or Baton Pass, which helped it cope with the hard counters that it had...making them not very hard counters at all. Also Sand Veil....
Counters/Checks: Gligar's most reliable counter was probably Bronzor. Bronzor was tickled by Flying attacks and immune to Gligar's powerful Earthquake. Anything faster with HP Ice also checked it, but considering the nerf, I'm not sure that's going to be an option anymore. Scarf Misdreavus with Icy Wind was actually a thing for a while. Frillish hit it with STAB Surf and could take a couple attacks due to its bulk.
Sneasel
Base Stats: 55 HP / 95 Atk / 55 Def / 35 SpA / 75 SpD / 115 Spe
Ability: Inner Focus, etc.
Opinion: It's a little concerning that people do not think Sneasel will absolutely dominate the metagame right away. The only thing Sneasel was missing was a powerful Dark-type STAB attack, and guess what, Knock Off happened. With Knock Off, I'm fairly certain Sneasel can 2HKO anything that switches into it. And unless you have a Pokemon with 16 Speed and a Choice Scarf, it will get both of those attacks off. Sneasel moves at a blistering 23 Speed with a Jolly nature. You can't even switch in something that survives by the skin of its teeth because of STAB Ice Shard. Sneasel is, in my opinion, the scariest Pokemon in the metagame simply because of its Speed and ability to wall-break, revenge kill, and sweep. It's going to be my favorite switch-in for Knock Off, because it doesn't rely on items as much as defensive Pokemon do.
Checks/Counters: You need to go for the strong Fighting-types such as Timburr. Bulky Mienfoo is even 2HKOed by Ice Punch (and with SR is potentially 2HKOed by Knock Off + Ice Punch). Same thing to revenge kill Sneasel, it isn't as bulky as Scyther, but it still will probably take most attacks you would throw at it.
Tangela
Base Stats: 65 HP / 55 Atk / 115 Def / 100 SpA / 40 SpD / 60 Spe
Abilities: Regenerator, Chlorophyll
Opinion: Tangela has very high stats for Little Cup which is the primary reason it has not seen much time out of Ubers. Its Special Attack coupled with its insane Defense makes it a great check for basically everything, besides Pokémon that spam Fire Blast. Tangela's Special Attack is so high that I would have actually run mono-Grass SolarBeam self-setting up Sunny Day sweeper with Sleep Powder. If there is a 4x resist, you simply switch out or put it to Sleep (unless they are Grass...I don't think Sleep Powder works on Grass-types anymore). With Sun-boosted Synthesis and Eviolite, it's hard to kill Tangela without OHKOing it and its really hard to OHKO it without a big Fire Blast. Priority can't stop it (not even Sneasel's Ice Shard does anything) and SolarBeam melts through single resists. The other options are simple attacking/supporting with 3-2 attacks, status, and etc with Regenerator. It can switch in so many times per battle and hurt something in the process. Very powerful Pokémon.
Checks/Counters: Depends on its movepool. If Hidden Power is honestly not a thing anymore, than feel free to switch any 4x resist to Grass such as Ferroseed or any Grass/Poison and hit it with something on the special side. Depending on the Tangela's coverage move, assuming not mono grass, Vullaby can work well too.
Vulpix
Base Stats: 38 HP / 41 Atk / 40 Def / 50 SpA / 65 SpD / 65 Spe
Ability: Drought (, Flash Fire)
Opinion: I'm of the opinion that Vulpix itself was not the strong aspect of the game, it was the perma sun. Honestly, the Sunny Day sweepers were not too threatening unless you lacked priority, but with a metagame full of slow Eviolite Pokémon, Vulpix and its Sunny Day sweepers were very powerful. I don't think that's the case anymore. With 5 turn limit on Drought, Sunny Day is severely hindered.
Checks/Counters: As a Pokémon, Vulpix is relatively easily to switch into. To counter Sunny Day, simply use another weather, Protect, Substitute, or bulky Fire-types.
Yanma
Base Stats: 65 HP / 65 Atk / 45 Def / 75 SpA / 45 SpD / 95 Spe
Ability: Speed Boost, Compoundeyes
Opinion: Yanma is deadly in the same way Carvanha is, in that it has high offensive capabilities along with Speed boost. Yanma is arguably more dangerous due to its naturally higher Speed, but its Stealth Rock weakness makes it slightly harder to bring in multiple times during the battle. That said, it is naturally bulkier than Carvanha by a ton and actually takes most priority attacks pretty well. It can even run Roost to bypass Sucker Punch and heal up.
Checks/Counters: Yanma has an inherently hard time switching into things with Stealth Rock on the field, so it would be a good idea to put that up as soon as possible. Sneasel checks it with Ice Shard, though Yanma has higher bulk than one would think and can take a hit. It has a hard time breaking through Misdreavus, though a well predicted Shadow Ball or Air Slash does the trick. Munchlax is a great special wall and Yanma can't kill it without dying to Return first.
Note: Please do not discuss bans in Gen 6. For example, don't say "Pokemon X will probably be banned etc."
- Carvanha
- Meditite
- Gligar
ScytherSneasel- Tangela
- Vulpix
- Yanma
Base Stats: 45 HP / 90 Atk / 20 Def / 65 SpA / 20 SpD / 65 Spe
Ability: Speed Boost
Opinion: Carvanha has always had its uses and I don't see it changing. Before it received Speed Boost in Gen 5, it was a regular wall breaker that had access to a priority move to hinder revenge killers. However, now it is built for sweeping. Speed Boost, high Attack (and Special Attack), and the same movepool that made it an incredible wall breaker all add up to be a very big threat. If you were looking for something to accept a Gligar Swords Dance, this it it.
Counters/Checks: Carvanha does have some counters and checks even though nothing quite enjoys switching in. Anything very bulky that remains neutral to Carvanha's STABs and not weak to things like Zen Headbutt will do a lot of good. Obviously Tangela jumps out as something that walls every physical oriented Carvanha, and even checks special variants. Wooper, Lileep, and other odd-ball Pokemon can switch into Carvanha and Recover off the damage. Even with Zen Headbutt, Timburr can be a decent switch-in with Mach Punch to threaten Carvanha's frail defenses and its immense bulk to take a Waterfall if it has to. If you're looking to revenge, stay away from Fake Out because Carvanha tends to use Protect. Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, and maybe a powerful ExtremeSpeed will do the trick against Carvanha, but the problem is that most the Pokemon that use these moves will need prediction to get in.
Meditite
Base Stats: 30 HP / 40 Atk / 55 Def / 40 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe
Ability: Pure Power, (Telepathy)
Opinion: Meditite was initially scary because of his monstrous Attack combined with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb priority, making him almost impossible to wall and revenge kill. These sets were very popular throughout early Gen 5 LC because there were still powerhouses in the tier. However, it was quickly discovered (with the huge impact of Eviolite) that Meditite was the simply the best Pokemon in the tier (at the time) because of other reasons. Since Sneasel, Scyther, etc. got banned, and with the help of Eviolite and some bulky EVs, Meditite soon became one of the hardest Pokemon to deal with. It had very solid coverage with STABs and Ice Punch and couldn't even be KOed by anything besides Acrobatics Gligar. Drain Punch and Recover supplied Meditite with insane longevity while still posting 24-26 Attack. I'm not sure if it gets anything new like Knock Off, but Meditite is scary enough as is.
Counters/Checks: Switching into Meditite was a job for very few Pokemon and it usually relying heavily on prediction. Frillish and Misdreavus were somewhat reliable with HP and great typing, however it still hurts when Meditite threw a surprise Zen Headbutt. Murkrow could switch into Zen Headbutt and KO with Brave Bird, but risks getting destroyed by anything else. Revenge killing was difficult with Eviolite, but Shadow Balls from Misdreavus and Brave Birds from Murkrow are the best bet. If it's hit with Toxic I'm also fairly sure Eviolite Gligar can stall it out. Drifloon's Acrobatics set can set up on it as well.
Gligar
Base Stats: 65 HP / 75 Atk / 105 Def / 35 SpA / 65 SpD / 85 Spe
Ability: Hyper Cutter, Sand Veil
Opinion: Gligar was one of the last Pokemon to go on the Ban list and it is always a very curious case. In Gligar's history, it has always been tip-toeing on the line of broken and not broken. What keeps it on the line is the fact that its specific sets are were generally referred to as not broken, but what eventually pushed it over is the fact that it had so many viable sets that needed different counters, checks, and methods of dealing with them. Leading the sets was the famous Swords Dance set that used Flying Gem and Acrobatics along with Earthquake. The fourth move made Gligar scary because it could be a 4th coverage move or Baton Pass, which helped it cope with the hard counters that it had...making them not very hard counters at all. Also Sand Veil....
Counters/Checks: Gligar's most reliable counter was probably Bronzor. Bronzor was tickled by Flying attacks and immune to Gligar's powerful Earthquake. Anything faster with HP Ice also checked it, but considering the nerf, I'm not sure that's going to be an option anymore. Scarf Misdreavus with Icy Wind was actually a thing for a while. Frillish hit it with STAB Surf and could take a couple attacks due to its bulk.
Base Stats: 55 HP / 95 Atk / 55 Def / 35 SpA / 75 SpD / 115 Spe
Ability: Inner Focus, etc.
Opinion: It's a little concerning that people do not think Sneasel will absolutely dominate the metagame right away. The only thing Sneasel was missing was a powerful Dark-type STAB attack, and guess what, Knock Off happened. With Knock Off, I'm fairly certain Sneasel can 2HKO anything that switches into it. And unless you have a Pokemon with 16 Speed and a Choice Scarf, it will get both of those attacks off. Sneasel moves at a blistering 23 Speed with a Jolly nature. You can't even switch in something that survives by the skin of its teeth because of STAB Ice Shard. Sneasel is, in my opinion, the scariest Pokemon in the metagame simply because of its Speed and ability to wall-break, revenge kill, and sweep. It's going to be my favorite switch-in for Knock Off, because it doesn't rely on items as much as defensive Pokemon do.
Checks/Counters: You need to go for the strong Fighting-types such as Timburr. Bulky Mienfoo is even 2HKOed by Ice Punch (and with SR is potentially 2HKOed by Knock Off + Ice Punch). Same thing to revenge kill Sneasel, it isn't as bulky as Scyther, but it still will probably take most attacks you would throw at it.
Tangela
Base Stats: 65 HP / 55 Atk / 115 Def / 100 SpA / 40 SpD / 60 Spe
Abilities: Regenerator, Chlorophyll
Opinion: Tangela has very high stats for Little Cup which is the primary reason it has not seen much time out of Ubers. Its Special Attack coupled with its insane Defense makes it a great check for basically everything, besides Pokémon that spam Fire Blast. Tangela's Special Attack is so high that I would have actually run mono-Grass SolarBeam self-setting up Sunny Day sweeper with Sleep Powder. If there is a 4x resist, you simply switch out or put it to Sleep (unless they are Grass...I don't think Sleep Powder works on Grass-types anymore). With Sun-boosted Synthesis and Eviolite, it's hard to kill Tangela without OHKOing it and its really hard to OHKO it without a big Fire Blast. Priority can't stop it (not even Sneasel's Ice Shard does anything) and SolarBeam melts through single resists. The other options are simple attacking/supporting with 3-2 attacks, status, and etc with Regenerator. It can switch in so many times per battle and hurt something in the process. Very powerful Pokémon.
Checks/Counters: Depends on its movepool. If Hidden Power is honestly not a thing anymore, than feel free to switch any 4x resist to Grass such as Ferroseed or any Grass/Poison and hit it with something on the special side. Depending on the Tangela's coverage move, assuming not mono grass, Vullaby can work well too.
Vulpix
Base Stats: 38 HP / 41 Atk / 40 Def / 50 SpA / 65 SpD / 65 Spe
Ability: Drought (, Flash Fire)
Opinion: I'm of the opinion that Vulpix itself was not the strong aspect of the game, it was the perma sun. Honestly, the Sunny Day sweepers were not too threatening unless you lacked priority, but with a metagame full of slow Eviolite Pokémon, Vulpix and its Sunny Day sweepers were very powerful. I don't think that's the case anymore. With 5 turn limit on Drought, Sunny Day is severely hindered.
Checks/Counters: As a Pokémon, Vulpix is relatively easily to switch into. To counter Sunny Day, simply use another weather, Protect, Substitute, or bulky Fire-types.
Yanma
Base Stats: 65 HP / 65 Atk / 45 Def / 75 SpA / 45 SpD / 95 Spe
Ability: Speed Boost, Compoundeyes
Opinion: Yanma is deadly in the same way Carvanha is, in that it has high offensive capabilities along with Speed boost. Yanma is arguably more dangerous due to its naturally higher Speed, but its Stealth Rock weakness makes it slightly harder to bring in multiple times during the battle. That said, it is naturally bulkier than Carvanha by a ton and actually takes most priority attacks pretty well. It can even run Roost to bypass Sucker Punch and heal up.
Checks/Counters: Yanma has an inherently hard time switching into things with Stealth Rock on the field, so it would be a good idea to put that up as soon as possible. Sneasel checks it with Ice Shard, though Yanma has higher bulk than one would think and can take a hit. It has a hard time breaking through Misdreavus, though a well predicted Shadow Ball or Air Slash does the trick. Munchlax is a great special wall and Yanma can't kill it without dying to Return first.
Note: Please do not discuss bans in Gen 6. For example, don't say "Pokemon X will probably be banned etc."
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