Gen 3 Vap+Breloom HO w/Agilizap and LiechiDDTar

[Crenando24]

I chugged a long island iced tea and made this balls to the wall HO Team.

The Team:


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 12 HP / 216 SpA / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

This lead Vap doesnt have a salac berry, which is normally standard for it. The reason being that a +1 Breloom or Metagross only hit 393 best case scenario, where as +2 will outspeed anything not named Ninjask. The HP is for 101 subs and the SpD is to always survive modest Zapdos Tbolt. Making the right decision on whether to attack or attempt the sub pass is crucial and is very rewarding when used correctly.


Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Swords Dance
- Sky Uppercut

IMO spikeless HO requires a sleep user to gain enough momentum to snowball, and Loom is the best sleep user in the tier. The EVs are for more bulk and the speed let's it outspeed the Base 130's at +2 speed. Good early game sleep user when passed a sub from vaporeon, who baits special walls in very easily.



Tyranitar @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 120 Atk / 120 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]

The big cheese, and my overall wincon. If given an Agility, it outspeeds everything and does huge damage with adamant +1. Instead of standard lum Berry I used liechi berry with the defense to survive Dugtrio from full health. It also helps versus random physical moves. Even if it isn't given double speed it's still a DD Tar, so making sure that its checks are either dead or weakened is very important.


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Agility
- Baton Pass

This is the most important member of the team, as most of the threats on here are predicated on getting that juicy speed boost. Zapdos is the best glue for HO (spikes immune, fight resist, checks Metagross, weakens Swampert, BPs on special walls, etc...) and an incredible enabler. The speed is enough to outpace Jolly TTar and the HP gives it more opportunities to pull off Agility. HP grass is necessary to threaten Swampert.



Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide

Originally I had a sing Blissey to be a backup sing user and special check. Dugtrio trades reliability against Zapdos in order to forcibly remove the special threats that Bliss would've walled. The biggest target for this Dug is Celebi, since it checks both Zapdos and Breloom. Being a cheat answer to DD Tar and Metagross is a big boon as well.



Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Rounding out the team is Metagross; I was using Choice Band but being able to change moves and absorb status is good for helping versus Gengar (this team is suspiciously gengar weak lol). Mash means that 17% of the time it gets even more busted and can easily snowball into a sweep. The speed EVs are for Machamp and Jolly Marowak. I could maybe slide some EVs for 128 HP, as that survives Mence fire blast and dug EQ. Metagross is the de facto rock resist and most solid check to Ttar and Snorlax.


This team isnt the most consistent but it's very skill intensive and high tempo. If anyone has any suggestions or criticisms I'm all ears. Thanks for reading :3

 

[Cowboy Dan]

Cool team! I really like the over all concept. Subpass vap + fighter is something I've played with quite a bit and it is very strong when it works.

I do have a couple ideas you could play around with that could maybe help with some potential pain points for the current version:

1. Making tyranitar a jolly lum dd set I think would really help with some of the special weaknesses the team has. You mentioned a weakness to gengar and I imagine starmie is also not a particularly fun pokemon to face and when they can just come in and force you to decide between giving up your main win con or having to switch out and likely give up something else after you've used an opportunity to set up a DD it can be pretty devastating. With a jolly nature you can outspeed these two at +1 and keep moving on with your sweep, and lum allows you to even set up in Gengar's face (watch out for focus punch).

2. Making at least 1 of breloom or metagross + spe. I think the team has a pretty solid handle on late game tyranitar thanks to the dugtrio but early game I imagine it forces a lot of awkward guessing games before you know the set and if you run into a fast special set it can take out an important pokemon before getting itself trapped. Giving at least one of your midgame checks to it enough speed to always outspeed every tyranitar set takes a lot of the guess work out of trying to deal with it in the early info gathering stages of the game.

3. This one is more of a potential idea to try out but focus punch over sd on breloom I think is likely to get you a lot more overall value on the turns you manage to pass a sub to it. Being able to click that move from behind a sub more often than not results in a ko. Sd can potentially net even more reward but it's pretty rare in my experience.

4. Only major change i would suggest testing out is giving aerodactyl a try over dugtrio. You do have to be a little more on point with your predictions since you can't trap with it but it gives you a more flexible check to things like zapdos, moltres and gengar which duggy can't really do. It also adds an additional wincon which would allow you to play less cautiously with your ttar and potentially get more value out of it. I will say it's definitely possible this change adds some unforeseen weaknesses so may not work out but it's at least worth testing imo.

Good luck with the team!

 

[Rubiaa]

I chugged a long island iced tea and made this balls to the wall HO Team.

The Team:


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 12 HP / 216 SpA / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

This lead Vap doesnt have a salac berry, which is normally standard for it. The reason being that a +1 Breloom or Metagross only hit 393 best case scenario, where as +2 will outspeed anything not named Ninjask. The HP is for 101 subs and the SpD is to always survive modest Zapdos Tbolt. Making the right decision on whether to attack or attempt the sub pass is crucial and is very rewarding when used correctly.


Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Swords Dance
- Sky Uppercut

IMO spikeless HO requires a sleep user to gain enough momentum to snowball, and Loom is the best sleep user in the tier. The EVs are for more bulk and the speed let's it outspeed the Base 130's at +2 speed. Good early game sleep user when passed a sub from vaporeon, who baits special walls in very easily.



Tyranitar @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 120 Atk / 120 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]

The big cheese, and my overall wincon. If given an Agility, it outspeeds everything and does huge damage with adamant +1. Instead of standard lum Berry I used liechi berry with the defense to survive Dugtrio from full health. It also helps versus random physical moves. Even if it isn't given double speed it's still a DD Tar, so making sure that its checks are either dead or weakened is very important.


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Agility
- Baton Pass

This is the most important member of the team, as most of the threats on here are predicated on getting that juicy speed boost. Zapdos is the best glue for HO (spikes immune, fight resist, checks Metagross, weakens Swampert, BPs on special walls, etc...) and an incredible enabler. The speed is enough to outpace Jolly TTar and the HP gives it more opportunities to pull off Agility. HP grass is necessary to threaten Swampert.



Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide

Originally I had a sing Blissey to be a backup sing user and special check. Dugtrio trades reliability against Zapdos in order to forcibly remove the special threats that Bliss would've walled. The biggest target for this Dug is Celebi, since it checks both Zapdos and Breloom. Being a cheat answer to DD Tar and Metagross is a big boon as well.



Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Rounding out the team is Metagross; I was using Choice Band but being able to change moves and absorb status is good for helping versus Gengar (this team is suspiciously gengar weak lol). Mash means that 17% of the time it gets even more busted and can easily snowball into a sweep. The speed EVs are for Machamp and Jolly Marowak. I could maybe slide some EVs for 128 HP, as that survives Mence fire blast and dug EQ. Metagross is the de facto rock resist and most solid check to Ttar and Snorlax.


This team isnt the most consistent but it's very skill intensive and high tempo. If anyone has any suggestions or criticisms I'm all ears. Thanks for reading :3

Like this concept a lot. Weak to lseed celebi and really weak to zap tho. Try to put some things to fix dat mu. Maybe a cm bliss could be cool or even ur own celebi to pivot