USUM UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[Jade]

New nom time

Drop

to B-

Yeah, two sub ranks is a harsh drop, but this thing got way worse since the MVenu ban. Sure, it can work as a Flying/Lati/Drei check, and teams that lack a fat Water or Ground or the rare Vacuum Wave/Mach Punch priority lose to it with one setup turn, but how many teams lack any of that? Flying type usage has dropped since the ban, some combination of Hippo/Pert/Quag/Cune exists on every team, and Fighting type mons have only gotten better in the past few weeks. The fact that this mon is somehow ranked above a mon that lowkey counters Mamoswine of all things is an absolute travesty.

I really don't get how Stakataka got worse after the Venu ban. Sure it checked Flyings that beat Venu, but as a Rock type, Rhyperior was more common anyway. There's also waters that still lose to Staka if TR is up: Empoleon, Primarina, Mantine, Suicune, Tentacruel, and Volcanion. Toxic hits all of the mons you just mentioned and all the fat Waters/Grounds too. Also, I completely disagree that the mons you mentioned exist on every team. Hippo got better but is certainly not as splashable as you make it out to be, Swampert got a lot worse with these shifts, Quagsire only fits on stall, and Suicune isn't that splashable either. As I mentioned earlier, all the mons you just mentioned get hit by Toxic as well. All of the Fighting types except for Cobalion do not switch into Stakataka in the slightest either, or they fail to revenge if TR is up. Rotom-H doesn't completely counter Mamo either: Knock Off removing its potential Berry is annoying for it and switching into repeated Icicle Crashes pressures it (some Mamo run Stone Edge too).

Overrall, Stakataka should definitely stay B+ for the time being.

 

[aim]

itsjustdrew

Most of the Pokemon in C-/C are “garbage” but are still ranked for the small niche they present. Gligar is objectively worse than Gliscor. Much worse. Nobody will challenge this, but with Gliscor gone denying its niche is wrong. Gligar can check Terrakion, Cobalion, Infernape, Mega Manectric, and Nihilego while providing hazard support. We just ranked Pallossand for countering a handful of things so why can’t we do the same for Gligar? A lot of the Pokemon you mentioned it sets up on simply get slow U-Turned on, so it’s passivity not much of an issue as you say it is. Remember that the barrier for entering C- is really low, so even if the niche is small, it’s a niche nonetheless.

Just going off this, Gligar is also currently the best M-Aggron switch-in, in the tier. It’s ability to not be poisoned and shrugging off heavy slams + the lack of avalance/ice punch with Gliscor rising, Gligar has a space on fat teams specifically for this reason & its utility moves. Been using it as a defogger on the “anti-stall stall” team I’ve been running. Again, when I say the best, I mean a switch-in that doesn’t care what aggron goes for. Slowbro doesn’t wanna be toxic’d unless it’s rest etc. again, the mon is far from amazing, knock it and its “useless” but it does its job well imo.

 

[dingbat]

BackAtYouBro hit the nail on starmie/gengar. Starmie, despite being somewhat hard to build with compared to all the other A-, makes up for that deficiency by exerting a shit ton of offensive pressure. Gengar, despite having a massive speed advantage vs Chandelure and more moveset variety, is significantly more exploitable than lamp in terms of its defensive utility, for example being very unreliable vs Scizor and generally having a much worse matchup vs scarf Krook, which makes Gengar a worse pick in this meta right now.

I also disagree heavily with stak dropping, fewer teams (outside of stall) are running actual counters to this thing and CB is still a really underrated set on this 'mon. Also, defensive sets have gained traction in this meta; I would even argue that the increase in Hippo usage helps Stak a lot because it becomes that much more capable of just hard switching into special attackers.

Speakin of hippo, move that mofo to A rank

 

[autumn]

current discussion points and noms and my thoughts

to C-
Agree

Gligar is not Gliscor. It is nowhere near as good as Gliscor was and can't even come close to competing with it. However, Gliscor was arguably the best Pokemon in UU, certainly in the top 3. The idea of "replacing Gliscor" is nowhere close to accurate due to thehuge gap in viability: Gliscor was S rank and Gligar is being nominated up to C-, the lowest rank of viable Pokemon. The rank for Pokemon that have a small niche in this metagame. Gligar's ablity to switch into several Fighting-types like Cobalion, Terrakion, and Infernape as well as several other Pokemon like Mega Manectric if not running HP Ice, which is far less common, Mega Aggron as stated above, and several other Rock- and Steel-types makes it a niche choice on some teams, and that should be reflected here.

to B+
Agree

Rotom-H is a really good pick right now. Not only can it act as a really good offensive pivot for a variety of playstyles and teams, it's also a very slid Flying resist option. For the last few months, Flying-types like Moltres, Togekiss, and Crobat have been rising in viability, and Rotom-H's ability to act as an offensive check to them is appreciated in a metagame that's full of these Pokemon. It can also threaten bulky Steel-types like Klefki, Scizor, Mega Aggron, and even Empoleon to an extent while also walling Mamoswine's STAB moves, only losing to if it's running the rare Knock Off or Stone Edge. It has a lot of great utility options like Pain Split, Defog, and Will-O-Wisp too, which allows it to fit on several teams. Its ability to fare well against much of the metagame means it's deserving of a rise.

to B
Agree

While Azelf may be the most reliable suicide lead in the tier, its usefulness in this role isn't as prominent anymore, so it should drop a rank to reflect this. Some hyper offense teams are shifting to be more focused on a Mamoswine / Klefki / Sharpedo core as opposed to ensuring hazards remain up with lead Azelf, and the teams that do keep this can struggle to break through a lot of top-tier threats. Azelf also hates the rise of Choice Scarf Krookodile and Hydreigon. Mamoswine's reintroduction brough offensive an extremely strong Stealth Rock user that isn't forced to faint turn 2 or 3, and it also brough another priority move, which can be problematic to some of the staples of these teams. Aside from its role as a lead, Azelf is far too frail to reliably become an offensive threat, and while offensive Nasty Plot sets are an option, they require a lot of team support and are far easier to shut down or revenge kill compared to other Psychic-type setup sweetpers in Calm Mind Latias and Nasty Plot Celebi. Azelf's role is not as commonly seen, so t should drop.

to B
Agree

Lucario is a really good option for an offensive Fighting-type, especially on hyper offense or offense teams. It can presure a lot of the tier with either one of its boosting sets; Swords Dance allows it to become an extremely strong breaker with Meteor Mash and Close Combat as well as being able to use Extreme Speed to weaken almost anything that's not Rock-, Steel- or Ghost-type. Nasty Plot, arguably the better set of the two, has a really good matchup against stall and bulky builds; Blissey fails to reliably wall it after a boost or two, and Quagsire's weaker Special Defense means that can be bypassed with a Z-Move too. Both sets are powerful enough to find setup opportunities against a lot of more passive Pokemon and Pokemon that can't break it due to its typing, and its typing can also create setup opportunities from the switches it forces. This amazing breaking ability with the lack of Gliscor and Venusaur to wall it made it, along with several other Fighting-types, a lot more prominent. This Pokemon can pose a serious threat to so many teams and should rise as such.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Gonna make a short vr post about Mega Houndoom and some reorganization of the lower ranks.

C+ >>> C-

The increased popularity of Moltres has made Yanmega way, way worse than before, especially because Moltres can also run Choice Specs. The opportunity cost of using a Choice Specs quad-Rock-weak frail mediocre-Speed balance breaker on a team is extremely high, and this thing's niche is very rapidly deteriorating. That one Weakness Policy set is nifty and all and Choice Specs still does what it does sometimes, but that imo is only enough to keep it C-, rather than C+. This thing has fallen from grace severely since Breloom meta, and its Viability Ranking should reflect this.

B >>> B+
Honestly, even though we dropped this thing semi-recently, I think Mega Houndoom's niche is quite valuable. It's one of the only Pokemon that can revenge kill Latias, check Scizor, and check Chandelure and Gengar at the same time, and it's also pretty good at doing what it does as a Nasty Plot wallbreaker. Taunt is pretty underestimated especially right now, giving Mega Houndoom an actually very good matchup against fat playstyles, and Flame Charge is also pretty nifty to help with offense. This Pokemon's primary downside is that it's a Mega and therefore inhales the Mega slot, but imo this Pokemon's valuable traits make it well worth B+.

I'm honestly not too sure?
If there's one thing I can say about Gligar, it's that the Pokemon has a pretty good niche on stall as a check to Terrakion (and, if carrying Wing Attack, Heracross). However, does this mean it should be ranked? I've been mixed on this for a while; one of its main downsides on stall is its Eviolite reliance making it a bad switch-in to Knock and therefore requiring you to forfeit Alomomola's Leftovers or something whenever you face Krookodile, and it has difficulty fitting on other playstyles just due to how passive it is. If we are ranking it, I definitely don't think it should ever rise above C-. I would honestly be fine either way for this decision.

C >>> C-
Entei's been struggling a lot a lot as of late. Choice Band Infernape is becoming a more desirable option in my experience, which gives Entei a lot of competition, and Entei's honestly just not too good as a whole right now. It struggles to do its sole job as a physical wallbreaker effectively when a good portion of physical walls wall it anyway, and the higher-than-ever popularity of Pokemon like Latias and Hydriegon doesn't help its case either. It even faces competition from Moltres in some ways, as it's another Fire-type wallbreaker, albeit a specially offensive one, that can provide more utility than merely checking Scizor. Overall, Entei's struggling a good bit in my opinion and should probably drop to C-.

 

[Hilomilo]

Hey all, thanks for the great discussion and contributions we've been seeing! I've got a few announcements regarding the future of the rankings, so be sure to read up!

Right now the viability rankings are set to see a bit of a change in the future, largely due to an increase in recent metagame trends that we've seen these past couple weeks that, due to how much they've shifted things, would considerably change up the current OP. Sage will also be stepping in as my new co-host in Pearl's place, so be sure to welcome her as a co-host and to thank Pearl for his work on the thread! This thread is going to be locked and a new one will be posted in these next couple days, so stay tuned! Thanks for everything that you guys have contributed to our tier's viability rankings as a community and let's hope that this can carry over to V3!