SM OU Top Tiers - 1500s and Climbing

Top Tiers - ~1500s
So I wanted to see just how much better the "top tier" pokemon
are in Sun and Moon Over Used.​



-------------Team Roles-------------
Gren: Revenger/Sweeper
Zyg: Wall Pressure/Revenger
Lando: Rocker/Wall Pressure/Pivot
Magear: SpD Wall/Pivot
Celes: Wall Pressure/Wall/Sweeper
Sci: Def Wall/Defogger
--------------------------------------------

Build Process:
I knew I wanted to use Zygarde after getting full swept by him realizing that his attack makes most of the top tier defensive pokemon useless (Celesteela, Toxapex, Magearna, Heatran) and of course Ferrothorn is no counter and even gets set up on in some sets. The exception being defensive Lando-T. So I decided use the set that was best against Ferrothron since he is a very annoying top tier mon that is capable of being set up on by Zygarde.

Yung Snake - Pressure Zygarde

the fall of the anti-ferro set:
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 240 HP / 152 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance

this set is able to set up against non-gyro ball Ferrothorn

However, I was soon to realize he lost to other Zygarde sets, at +1 was still slower than some of the speedy mons in the tier and scarfers as well as that fact that he gets bodied by Tangrowth as well as HP [Ice] Lando-T. So I opted for a unique Zygarde set. He specializes in more of a revenge killer/mind games approach.


Yung Snake (Zygarde) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed

about set:
With this he is able to 1v1 or at least heavily punish Alakazam-Mega, Greninja-Ash, Greninja, Tapu Koko, Lopunny-Mega {even after rocks!) and I'm sure a lot more speedy mons. Because the set runs toxic you can also trick an opponent's Tangrowth or Lando-T when you use substitute. If you sub-up they think for sure that you are some type of boosting set and will likely send in one of these mons which you can now stall out!


The other offensive threats I was thorn between were Volcarona and Greninja. Volcarona was the choice that made more sense because Zygarde covers Heatran and Volcarona covers grass mons, however after testing I was getting really annoyed with having to play the hazards game. While I'm sure you can make a team that would resolve this issue I opted to go with Greninja-Ash since he has a priority move and realizing that the new Zygarde set would sometimes leave my opponents speedy sweepers alive, but low I decided Greninja made the most sense. Also being a higher tier of course influenced the decision ;)

Froggy Force Field - Sweeper Greninja


Froggy Force Field (Greninja-Ash) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Extrasensory

about set:
Waterium Z Greninja is also very import in taking down walls that think they have survive another hydro pump (chansey, grass types) as well as Kartana. The Z move also allows Greninja to not lose the trick room matchup where Camerupt-Mega and Mawile-Mega are a solid threat to many high tier mons. Greninja Z is also a great switch in to Heatran if you are fearing the burn on Zygarde and is able to trick your opponent into thinking you are specs. Extrasensory is added to combat Venusaur-Mega, Toxapex and Lopunny-Mega.


After getting annoyed with playing the hazards matchup I also decided to add in Scizor-Mega which again works very well with the new priority-core in bullet punch which deals another large chunk to most sweepers. Although it is possible to win with Greninja if the opponent takes too much time setting up hazards due to his speed and Z preventing him from getting stalled against T-spikes having the Defog in the back is much more worth it. While he is not a top tier, Scizor-Mega is still a very high tier that synchronizes well with the team core. Other choices here could be Mew and Latios(as).

Crawdaunt Ass Lookin - Ground Control Scizor


Crawdaunt Ass Lookin (Scizor-Mega) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn

about set:
This is a standard defensive Scizor so you can just check the Smogon database for details, but I will say he is great against walling/weakening Lopunny-Mega and Lando-T for Zygarde, weakening opposing Greninja and even occasionally Heatran if you can get two bullet punches off to help Greninja-Ash sweep. He is also a great switch in from Zygarde vs Tangrowth/Lando-T after they fall for the toxic and break your sub.


The two defensive mons that we extremely easy to select where of course the highest rated pokemon in the current SM OU meta. The monstrous Special Defense wall, AV Magearna.

Lopunny-Mega-X - Great Wall Magearna


Lopunny-Mega-X (Magearna) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 200 HP / 52 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]

about set:
With over 300 base SpA and an incredible movepool Magearna is an offensive monster in it's own right. However, Magearna with Assult Vest is actually broken. Boasting over 500 SpD and 350 HP. This monster is switching into specs Greninjas, Tapu KoKos, Tapu Leles, defensive Heatrans. The sad part about the set is that it unfortunately can only take the hits from Heatran and volt-switch out, but this will at least give you the momentum in the fight. It has to run HP [Fire] in order to counter Ferrothorn who neither sweeper covers anymore with the removal of Dragon Dance on Zygarde and taking out Volcarona all together. Ice Beam takes care of Zygardes who think they can set against you because of all the priority in the back and can also destroy an unsuspecting Lando-T who sees assult vest Magearna as his "only take 50-60%" switch in. Iron Head is for the mirror match as it deals 4-7% more than flash cannon. 4 Speed EVs also to outspeed the matchup.


The other top tier defensive mon is the monstrous jack of all trades Landorus-Therian. Originally Lando-T was a completely defensive mon for the team, but it was switched off that role to be a complete mix pokemon

Mr. President - Pressure Landorus

Mr. President (Landorus-Therian) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

about set:
What looks like a standard defensive Landorus will be the fall of many foolish opponents. He will win all 1v1s with other defensive Lando-Ts and force them to switch out or die once they see no leftovers. Expert Belt is also a great trick if Lando-T is at full HP and U-turns after rocking making the opponent confident he is not choiced or life orbed. This mixed mon is capable of 1 shotting Toxapex turninig a 12.5% chance to a 87.5% chance after rocks. If Heatran or Magearna think they can outspeed a defensive Lando-T they can now think again. The mixture of roles also destroys a Greninja thinking they can switch in to a u-turn and live at 5-10% helps the Chansey/Ferrothorn matchup turning a 4 hit kill into a 3 hit kill and the Zygarde matchup turning a 3 hit kill into a 2 hit kill.


Finally I chose another great defensive mon that helps with the Ferrothorn, Venusaur, Bulu and Tangrowth matchups for my team. Another great top tier wall,

Laputa - Pressure Celesteela


Laputa (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Air Slash
- Protect
- Flamethrower

about set:
Originally a pure Smogon defensive build to help out Lando-T, I decided making it a bulky punisher/scout would allow it to do its job easier. And before you say just add fire blast, I'm not trying to lose crucial punishes on my sweeper's counters because of a 85% accurate move. I want those grass mons dead. Toxic is a very rare run move on Celesteela allowing it to come in on Lando-T and make it an invalid counter to Zygarde as well as make the mew 1v1 ez pz. Air Slash of course widdles Heatran on the obvious switch and counters non-Ferrothorn grass mons. Protect is just there to scout choiced moves so that I can cover ice moves with Celesteela and electric moves with Lando-T.


Let me know if you have any suggestions!



Threat List:
no team is without threats even if you are using all high tiers...

Heatran

Although Zygarde and Lando-T can one shot this mon, it is still very threatening considering my only switch-ins are Greninja who will take a big chunk despite resisting, Zygarde who I will need to pray doesn't get burned or only needs to beat Heatran in order to get a win and Magearna who can only come in to try to A) scare it out or B) volt-switch to bring in a counter. Fire is rough for my team as I have 3 weaknesses and 2 resistances. So when I see a Heatran I really need to play safe and especially make sure I am always clicking Air Slash with Celesteela and not Flamethrower.

Charizard


Another fire mon to watch out for. If Zard-X sets up the team can take it out, but likely will have to sack at least one mon. If Zard-Y is in I can only really trade hits with Magearna or bring in Greninja and Z move if it is at full.

Tapu Lele

This thing is evil for my team because most of my garunteed revenge kills come from priority. My only pokemon that can fight it is Magearna and Celesteela to a lesser extent. Revenge or choice locked into the wrong move Greninja can also beat it.

Swampert-Mega


Pretty Much Have to Stall the Rain Out With Scizor or Celesteela if I want to beat this mon. Of course I can catch it with a toxic, but it'll kill Celesteela a good amount before it dies. If you didn't know is mon is actually banned to Ubers in Rain. He's one of my only real counters that I can think of.


Importable:
Yung Snake (Zygarde) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed

Froggy Force Field (Greninja-Ash) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Extrasensory

Crawdaunt Ass Lookin (Scizor-Mega) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn

Lopunny-Mega-X (Magearna) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 200 HP / 52 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Mr. President (Landorus-Therian) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Laputa (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Air Slash
- Protect
- Flamethrower


To Test:
- switch HP [ice] off Landorus for Knock Off
- switch HP [ice] off Landorus for Toxic and Toxic off Zygarde for Protect/Glare/Coil/DD
 
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Hey cool team you have going here but it can definitely be improved. On top of the weaknesses you have pointed out I can also see this team struggles:
  • Tapu Koko is a massive threat to this team especially with how common the specs set is making Zygarde and Lando 50/50 switch ins. Your best switch in being AV Mag which will slowly get weakened down due to the lack of recovery the set gets.
  • Ash Greninja and Keldeo destroy most of your team and your best switch in again being AV Mag which will eventually not be able to wall these two threats. Offensive water Pokemon in general are an issue.
  • In general you have a poor match up vs rain as pointed out with Swampert. But again most run Koko and kingdra with your best answer being Mag.
  • Magnezone is a massive threat because you are using three steel types. Mag can easily take a hit and volt switch out but the other two suffer greatly. Most Mag look to speed creep Scizor so in most cases you lose Scizor.
  • Zapdos is another scary Pokemon with Magearna being your only switch in, or hard greninja if you expect a heat wave or hp ice. It can be played around but it's something to look out for.
  • Lastly Volcarona is a threat, which is just another fire type that pretty much runs through this team.

I will help minimise all these weaknesses as I feel your main issue is the lack of a solid defensive backbone.
  • I want to suggest swapping Greninja out for Keldeo. This gives your team a scarf user which is pretty much a must have on all teams nowadays. Keldeo is an amazing revenge killer and late game sweeper. It solves your Volcarona, Zard Y and Heatran weakness. It also means you aren't as prone to Lele as you are not reliant on priority + outspeed Scarf variants. It doesn't hinder your rain match-up as Keldeo also takes advantage of rain. It also eases your match-up vs Chansey which isn't a threat for Keldeo. Overall this mon does it's job and helps your Zygarde out to sweep drastically.
  • Next I advice swapping Scizor for M-Venusaur which drastically helps vs your threats. It completely walls Koko unless it is the rare Brave Bird set as well as being an answer to Keldeo and Ash-Greninja. It improves your rain match-up vs Kingdra but isn't the best direct switch in to Swampert if it goes for Ice Punch but can easily take one and kill back with giga drain. It walls both Zapdos and Magnezone making them less threatening. I plan to recommend an earthquake set so Heatran and Magearna are less threatening. It walls and beats Tapu Bulu as well and can out stall Toxapex if it comes to it. You do lose some momentum with this change but that should not be too much of an issue. Venusaur also absorbs Toxic spikes which is something your team also hates.
  • I want to suggest changing your Celesteela set to more of a defensive variant to better handle the likes of Pinsir for example which is very threatening to this team with the introduction of Keldeo and Venusaur. This change will just improve your general bulk that this team needs plus makes walling Tapu Lele so much easier for this Pokemon. I think it really needs Leech seed not just for itself but for the likes of Zygarde and Venusaur which greatly appreciate it. Personally I would suggest using flamethrower > Air slash to deal with Scizor + Ferro.
  • With these changes you now lack hazard removal so I want to suggest using Mew > Landorus. I know this is quite a drastic change but your team really appreciates hazards gone to help Keldeo or Zygarde sweep. Mew still acts a solid answer to Landorus and Zygarde but also Lopunny and Medicham, which Landorus may struggle to wall due to Ice Punch being run on them. Mew can pass Will-O-wisp off on offensive threats to your team. Although Mew also can't directly switch into Swampert it can come in on a prediction or after and Wisp it making it less threatening.
  • Now you lack a suitable Stealth Rock user which is why I want to suggest Heatran > Magearna. Heatran improves your Zard match-ups bar Zard X not having EQ and Zard Y not focus blasting on the switch. It is another answer to stall which drastically helps this team out too so that Zygarde or Keldeo can sweep. It deals with Bulu which wall both your offensive Pokemon.
  • The last change I would recommend is maybe trying Z-Outrage Zygarde to nuke a lot of defensive walls and if it does not act as your sweeper then it can wallbreak for the likes of Keldeo. This is optional as one set looks to deal massive damage while the other stalls. So use whichever set you personally prefer but I feel the Z-Outrage is better as you have a BO team which isn't really built to stall.
Importable:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Stone Edge
- Scald

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 156 Def / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam / Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Zygarde @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance


Hope these suggestions are useful , overall it greatly depletes your weaknesses but you have lost how much offensive pressure you were running before so I hope it fits your playstyle.
 
Hey, cool team u have there it seems pretty solid but i can think of some changes to improve it. I am not sure about ur Zygarde set because it is more of a gimmick if anything, but i'll leave it be because its the focus of the team. I personally am not a fan of Extrasensory on Waterium Z Ash-Greninja personally i think u should change this slot to Taunt or Spikes because Taunt allows it to annoy fatter mons such as Toxapex while Spikes is just a good moveslot because Ash-Greninja forces easy switches. I think u should switch out Mega Scizor for a Defog Mega Latias set because this helps ur team by checking Zard Y and Non Toxic Heatran it also checks some mons that u did not list as threats but can still decently threaten ur team such as Mega Pinsir and Calm Mind Taunt Keldeo. This is just a minor nitpick but change the Calm Nature on Magearna to a Sassy Nature for more damage output with Iron Head. Once again ur Landorus-Therian set seems more like a gimmick but i can see it work on this team so i'll leave it be. I dont think Celesteela provides much for ur team, personally i think u should replace it with Heatran because Taunt Toxic Heatran breaks stall with ease, which ur team right now really struggles with, it also gives u a good secondary check to Tapu Lele and Focus Blastless Mega Charizard Y.


Hope i helped u with this rate be sure to let me know how u like it.
 
Hey cool team you have going here but it can definitely be improved. On top of the weaknesses you have pointed out I can also see this team struggles:
  • Tapu Koko is a massive threat to this team especially with how common the specs set is making Zygarde and Lando 50/50 switch ins. Your best switch in being AV Mag which will slowly get weakened down due to the lack of recovery the set gets.
  • Ash Greninja and Keldeo destroy most of your team and your best switch in again being AV Mag which will eventually not be able to wall these two threats. Offensive water Pokemon in general are an issue.
  • In general you have a poor match up vs rain as pointed out with Swampert. But again most run Koko and kingdra with your best answer being Mag.
  • Magnezone is a massive threat because you are using three steel types. Mag can easily take a hit and volt switch out but the other two suffer greatly. Most Mag look to speed creep Scizor so in most cases you lose Scizor.
  • Zapdos is another scary Pokemon with Magearna being your only switch in, or hard greninja if you expect a heat wave or hp ice. It can be played around but it's something to look out for.
  • Lastly Volcarona is a threat, which is just another fire type that pretty much runs through this team.

I will help minimise all these weaknesses as I feel your main issue is the lack of a solid defensive backbone.
  • I want to suggest swapping Greninja out for Keldeo. This gives your team a scarf user which is pretty much a must have on all teams nowadays. Keldeo is an amazing revenge killer and late game sweeper. It solves your Volcarona, Zard Y and Heatran weakness. It also means you aren't as prone to Lele as you are not reliant on priority + outspeed Scarf variants. It doesn't hinder your rain match-up as Keldeo also takes advantage of rain. It also eases your match-up vs Chansey which isn't a threat for Keldeo. Overall this mon does it's job and helps your Zygarde out to sweep drastically.
  • Next I advice swapping Scizor for M-Venusaur which drastically helps vs your threats. It completely walls Koko unless it is the rare Brave Bird set as well as being an answer to Keldeo and Ash-Greninja. It improves your rain match-up vs Kingdra but isn't the best direct switch in to Swampert if it goes for Ice Punch but can easily take one and kill back with giga drain. It walls both Zapdos and Magnezone making them less threatening. I plan to recommend an earthquake set so Heatran and Magearna are less threatening. It walls and beats Tapu Bulu as well and can out stall Toxapex if it comes to it. You do lose some momentum with this change but that should not be too much of an issue. Venusaur also absorbs Toxic spikes which is something your team also hates.
  • I want to suggest changing your Celesteela set to more of a defensive variant to better handle the likes of Pinsir for example which is very threatening to this team with the introduction of Keldeo and Venusaur. This change will just improve your general bulk that this team needs plus makes walling Tapu Lele so much easier for this Pokemon. I think it really needs Leech seed not just for itself but for the likes of Zygarde and Venusaur which greatly appreciate it. Personally I would suggest using flamethrower > Air slash to deal with Scizor + Ferro.
  • With these changes you now lack hazard removal so I want to suggest using Mew > Landorus. I know this is quite a drastic change but your team really appreciates hazards gone to help Keldeo or Zygarde sweep. Mew still acts a solid answer to Landorus and Zygarde but also Lopunny and Medicham, which Landorus may struggle to wall due to Ice Punch being run on them. Mew can pass Will-O-wisp off on offensive threats to your team. Although Mew also can't directly switch into Swampert it can come in on a prediction or after and Wisp it making it less threatening.
  • Now you lack a suitable Stealth Rock user which is why I want to suggest Heatran > Magearna. Heatran improves your Zard match-ups bar Zard X not having EQ and Zard Y not focus blasting on the switch. It is another answer to stall which drastically helps this team out too so that Zygarde or Keldeo can sweep. It deals with Bulu which wall both your offensive Pokemon.
  • The last change I would recommend is maybe trying Z-Outrage Zygarde to nuke a lot of defensive walls and if it does not act as your sweeper then it can wallbreak for the likes of Keldeo. This is optional as one set looks to deal massive damage while the other stalls. So use whichever set you personally prefer but I feel the Z-Outrage is better as you have a BO team which isn't really built to stall.
Hope these suggestions are useful , overall it greatly depletes your weaknesses but you have lost how much offensive pressure you were running before so I hope it fits your playstyle.
Hey, thanks for the reply!

Here are my thoughts
Firstly I would like to point out that
Greninja and
Koko have not been threats to this team. Magearna takes ~35% at most from a switch in and provides pressure herself.
vs. Greninja I have 3 mons that beat it with priority so even if it does get a kill I am not too worried. However, most of the time I am able to beat it or scare it out with Magearna giving me momentum. On top of that my Zygarde can 1v1 and beat any choiced or Z Gren-Ash lacking ice beam. Celesteela can also scout for the ice beam and 1v1 if it is choiced into it, or win a 1v1 if Gren misses a hydro pump. Finally Scizor also has a good chance in a 1v1 as it ko with U-Turn and nothing Gren does will garuntee a ko against Scizor unless Z (even then there is a chance Scizor will live), as it needs a good roll and a hit with hydro.

vs.

Next,
Specs Keldeo is definetey a threat, but against Celesteela it loses if rocks are in play. It also doesn't appreciate a switch in on Greninja because I run extrasensory. Zygarde can also revenge kill it or do a good chunk before dying in a 1v1.
As for a hard counter to these
water mons I did run Fleur Cannon on Magearna over Iron Head, but I have currently switched to see if the team can handle it. If they become a problem I can always put Fleur Cannon back on and perhaps even go calm mind Magearna.

As for rain it clearly destroys me and Kingdra is no exception for sure. Putting Fleur Cannon back on Magearna can definitely win the matchup, but Swampert is the bigger threat to my team and much more prevelant. The
suggestion is totally something I will take into account as I did want to use this mon. Ty for pointing that out.

is another threat, but really it only beats Scizor and Celesteela. Magearna wins a long battle. I think the
switch would help here as well.

is similar to Magnezone I think
helps here too unless I wanted to just try to use Gren and read my opponent like you suggested.

is great against my team, but at least it has bad matchups against Zygarde (even at +1) and Greninja.


If I'm starting to have problems I think
(for Scizor) with
(for Lando) as a compliment for defog or rocks will be my go to.
 
Hey, cool team u have there it seems pretty solid but i can think of some changes to improve it. I am not sure about ur Zygarde set because it is more of a gimmick if anything, but i'll leave it be because its the focus of the team. I personally am not a fan of Extrasensory on Waterium Z Ash-Greninja personally i think u should change this slot to Taunt or Spikes because Taunt allows it to annoy fatter mons such as Toxapex while Spikes is just a good moveslot because Ash-Greninja forces easy switches. I think u should switch out Mega Scizor for a Defog Mega Latias set because this helps ur team by checking Zard Y and Non Toxic Heatran it also checks some mons that u did not list as threats but can still decently threaten ur team such as Mega Pinsir and Calm Mind Taunt Keldeo. This is just a minor nitpick but change the Calm Nature on Magearna to a Sassy Nature for more damage output with Iron Head. Once again ur Landorus-Therian set seems more like a gimmick but i can see it work on this team so i'll leave it be. I dont think Celesteela provides much for ur team, personally i think u should replace it with Heatran because Taunt Toxic Heatran breaks stall with ease, which ur team right now really struggles with, it also gives u a good secondary check to Tapu Lele and Focus Blastless Mega Charizard Y.


Hope i helped u with this rate be sure to let me know how u like it.
Ty for the rate.

I agree I this Heatran is worth trying out since he covers all of Celesteelas roles well.

I think Twilight's idea of Venusar over Scizor makes more sense aginast Rain, but of course it is lacking defog so Latias can be tested as well.
 
Hey, thanks for the reply!

Here are my thoughts
Firstly I would like to point out that
Greninja and
Koko have not been threats to this team. Magearna takes ~35% at most from a switch in and provides pressure herself.
vs. Greninja I have 3 mons that beat it with priority so even if it does get a kill I am not too worried. However, most of the time I am able to beat it or scare it out with Magearna giving me momentum. On top of that my Zygarde can 1v1 and beat any choiced or Z Gren-Ash lacking ice beam. Celesteela can also scout for the ice beam and 1v1 if it is choiced into it, or win a 1v1 if Gren misses a hydro pump. Finally Scizor also has a good chance in a 1v1 as it ko with U-Turn and nothing Gren does will garuntee a ko against Scizor unless Z (even then there is a chance Scizor will live), as it needs a good roll and a hit with hydro.

vs.

Next,
Specs Keldeo is definetey a threat, but against Celesteela it loses if rocks are in play. It also doesn't appreciate a switch in on Greninja because I run extrasensory. Zygarde can also revenge kill it or do a good chunk before dying in a 1v1.
As for a hard counter to these
water mons I did run Fleur Cannon on Magearna over Iron Head, but I have currently switched to see if the team can handle it. If they become a problem I can always put Fleur Cannon back on and perhaps even go calm mind Magearna.

As for rain it clearly destroys me and Kingdra is no exception for sure. Putting Fleur Cannon back on Magearna can definitely win the matchup, but Swampert is the bigger threat to my team and much more prevelant. The
suggestion is totally something I will take into account as I did want to use this mon. Ty for pointing that out.

is another threat, but really it only beats Scizor and Celesteela. Magearna wins a long battle. I think the
switch would help here as well.

is similar to Magnezone I think
helps here too unless I wanted to just try to use Gren and read my opponent like you suggested.

is great against my team, but at least it has bad matchups against Zygarde (even at +1) and Greninja.


If I'm starting to have problems I think
(for Scizor) with
(for Lando) as a compliment for defog or rocks will be my go to.
I wasn't going to rate this team as I agreed with Twilight 100%, but I do want to say that with Magearna, taking 35% is really bad for it. It has 0 recovery and has to switch into stealth rocks. Tapu koko eats you're team as you have it right now.
You're claim that you can beat Greninja with priority really confused me as your team is oriented to being much more defensive. AV Mage can handle it early game, but late game, Greninja tears this team apart. This is especially bad when you don't have a whole lot of offensive options to utilize the pivoting magearna gives you so you can beat your opponent before Magearna gets too low. Basically, this team is complete Greninja food.
AV Magearna has a really rough time trying to take a choice specs, rain boosted hydro pump from kingdra...
For you're Magnezone claim, playing smart with szicor can let you pivot out of it, celesteela can actually 1v1 av magnezone, but it dies to sub electrium z and specs. Magearna can pivot out of it while only taking <25%, but that is still 25% + rocks on a defensive team that really relies on AV Mage as there special wall.
 
I wasn't going to rate this team as I agreed with Twilight 100%, but I do want to say that with Magearna, taking 35% is really bad for it. It has 0 recovery and has to switch into stealth rocks. Tapu koko eats you're team as you have it right now.
You're claim that you can beat Greninja with priority really confused me as your team is oriented to being much more defensive. AV Mage can handle it early game, but late game, Greninja tears this team apart. This is especially bad when you don't have a whole lot of offensive options to utilize the pivoting magearna gives you so you can beat your opponent before Magearna gets too low. Basically, this team is complete Greninja food.
AV Magearna has a really rough time trying to take a choice specs, rain boosted hydro pump from kingdra...
For you're Magnezone claim, playing smart with szicor can let you pivot out of it, celesteela can actually 1v1 av magnezone, but it dies to sub electrium z and specs. Magearna can pivot out of it while only taking <25%, but that is still 25% + rocks on a defensive team that really relies on AV Mage as there special wall.
All I know is that I've never had a problem with Greninja or Koko with this team.

Also you are assuming that Rocks are a problem for this team and not for the opposing team. Rocks are either cleared by my Scizor or work in my favor due to having 3 pivots.
 
All I know is that I've never had a problem with Greninja or Koko with this team.

Also you are assuming that Rocks are a problem for this team and not for the opposing team. Rocks are either cleared by my Scizor or work in my favor due to having 3 pivots.
If greninja and koko haven't been an issue that's fair enough but the higher you climb the chances are you will get swept by them, which is why basically every team runs something that can completely check them e.g. tangrowth. I agree that magearna taking 35% isn't good if it's your only reliable switch in, yes revenge killing it may not be an issue but a more suitable switch in is better.

So going with Venusaur as you've pointed out is definitely something to try. Though i made changes according to the mega swap so you would have to look at how well it synergies with the remainder of your team staying the same. For example if you swap venusaur and mew something like Zard X basically sweeps. Though lando isnt the best switch in anyways as it's offensive rather than defensive. Things like this.

These are all things you will have to test, good luck fren :)
 
If greninja and koko haven't been an issue that's fair enough but the higher you climb the chances are you will get swept by them, which is why basically every team runs something that can completely check them e.g. tangrowth. I agree that magearna taking 35% isn't good if it's your only reliable switch in, yes revenge killing it may not be an issue but a more suitable switch in is better.

So going with Venusaur as you've pointed out is definitely something to try. Though i made changes according to the mega swap so you would have to look at how well it synergies with the remainder of your team staying the same. For example if you swap venusaur and mew something like Zard X basically sweeps. Though lando isnt the best switch in anyways as it's offensive rather than defensive. Things like this.

These are all things you will have to test, good luck fren :)
So I just used your team and got rolled by a slowbro. Literally had nothing to check it. I'm going to try more. Definitely going to put toxic back on a few mons.

It also seems bad to trick room. What are your suggestion for that matchup?
 
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So I just used your team and got rolled by a slowbro. Literally had nothing to check it. I'm going to try more. Definitely going to put toxic back on a few mons.

It also seems bad to trick room. What are your suggestion for that matchup?
Yeah i forgot slowbro was even a thing as I rarely ever see it, my bad. The best options I could recommend would mean I would have to drastically change the team more which I don't normally like to do. I aimed around your zygarde which you wanted to build around and I'm trying not to make it so similar to the team I made a little while back. Maybe the zygarde set you had might be better vs bro.

I do think the changes I've made have helped your issues but I've clearly made a few more which is bound to happen such as slowbro or Kyurem being more threatening. The best i could suggest rn is running a clefable over mew perhaps, so heatran is free to run the toxic Sub set. This makes slowbro less threatening as you have toxic and knock off across both mons. Clefable still walls Zygarde, medicham etc. This means you lose hazard removal however, which isnt worth it with how your team doesn't like rocks. So you would have to swap something else out, which basically changes whole team not that I didn't suggest a lot already e.g. latios > Zygarde or something.

As for trick room I hate it also, this team does lack a solid Alowak answer which is where landorus would be nice especially the set I run with protect and leftovers.

These are suggestions to your problems which if you want I can attempt to implement into the team one way or another but I felt I came really close to what I've built previously which I doubt is what you want. I think venusaur, keldeo and the celesteela set are pretty much needed for synergy reasons and to help zygarde sweep but maybe you can experiment with the other 3 slots if you feel things like bro or trick room are massive issues. Sorry i can't suggest much I'm on my phone, but hope this helps a little. If you have any more qns feel free to ask.
 
So I just used your team and got rolled by a slowbro. Literally had nothing to check it. I'm going to try more. Definitely going to put toxic back on a few mons.

It also seems bad to trick room. What are your suggestion for that matchup?
hi, so a general guideline when u build a team for OU is that u want to able to cover as many threats as u can in OU. it's not worth changing the structure of a team for a mon like slowbro which is NU and its mega form is BL that rarely sees usage in OU. i personally think twilight's changes are nice.

2ndly yes, i agree with u trick room teams are a very tricky matchup and u need to get a lot of prediction calls right to win.
 
hi, so a general guideline when u build a team for OU is that u want to able to cover as many threats as u can in OU. it's not worth changing the structure of a team for a mon like slowbro which is NU and its mega form is BL that rarely sees usage in OU. i personally think twilight's changes are nice.

2ndly yes, i agree with u trick room teams are a very tricky matchup and u need to get a lot of prediction calls right to win.
Well it's more or less the fact that since the team lacked toxic it now gets swept by any set up mon. Slowbro is just the one that happened to destroy me. So having toxic over something like leech seed is a must have for Celesteela.
 
Well it's more or less the fact that since the team lacked toxic it now gets swept by any set up mon. Slowbro is just the one that happened to destroy me.
Could u name another example that would in theory sweep u?
 
Could u name another example that would in theory sweep u?
Zard-x, Ttar, Latios/as all would sweep if they got rid of the right mon. Set-up Mega-Alakazem. Im sure there are a lot more. Swet-up sweepers are pretty common lol.

Other random water type sweepers like Suicune and Feraligator if they have a psychic move or if Venusaur is gone...
 
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Zard-x, Ttar, Latios/as all would sweep if they got rid of the right mon. Set-up Mega-Alakazem. Im sure there are a lot more. Swet-up sweepers are pretty common lol.

Other random water type sweepers like Suicune and Feraligator if they have a psychic move or if Venusaur is gone...
"all would sweep if they got rid of the right mon" thats basically with every team and a retarded mind state ofc theyre gna sweep if they get rid of the right mon thats why u dont risk that mon.
 
Zard-x, Ttar, Latios/as all would sweep if they got rid of the right mon. Set-up Mega-Alakazem. Im sure there are a lot more. Swet-up sweepers are pretty common lol.

Other random water type sweepers like Suicune and Feraligator if they have a psychic move or if Venusaur is gone...
Yeah as posted, you do have an answer to all of these Pokemon and with most teams running 1 or 2 sweepers unless HO, keeping it's check healthy is just pretty standard play. Latias is probably one you would struggle with more as it runs boltbeam. I do agree toxic would probably be really nice on this team but I wouldn't swap leech seed off for it. It's too important for celesteela and benefits your team. I would stretch to swapping taunt to toxic on heatran if you feel you really need it.

Trick room is obviously annoying but if you get good making appropriate doubles you can play around it same goes for any set up Mon too.

Edit: also could you provide replays because that might show how these things are sweeping which would benefit me as someone who rates teams to take this more into consideration and you as a player. This would be greatly appreciated bud :)
 
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hi, so a general guideline when u build a team for OU is that u want to able to cover as many threats as u can in OU. it's not worth changing the structure of a team for a mon like slowbro which is NU and its mega form is BL that rarely sees usage in OU. i personally think twilight's changes are nice.

2ndly yes, i agree with u trick room teams are a very tricky matchup and u need to get a lot of prediction calls right to win.
That's a fair point, I do think i checked most threats though i do agree that the lack of toxic might be the main issue for this team or appropriate doubles aren't made to stop these mons sweeping. Glad you like my changes and i totally agree trick room is an issue but you are right it's beatable :)
 
"all would sweep if they got rid of the right mon" thats basically with every team and a retarded mind state ofc theyre gna sweep if they get rid of the right mon thats why u dont risk that mon.
Pls don't talk like that on my thread. It's really uncalled for.

I gave you a good answer. A good player will sac everything to get rid of 1 mon if they can sweep with 1 mon. Sometimes a hard read can even just get rid of that 1 mon that blocks the sweeper too...
 
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Yeah as posted, you do have an answer to all of these Pokemon and with most teams running 1 or 2 sweepers unless HO, keeping it's check healthy is just pretty standard play. Latias is probably one you would struggle with more as it runs boltbeam. I do agree toxic would probably be really nice on this team but I wouldn't swap leech seed off for it. It's too important for celesteela and benefits your team. I would stretch to swapping taunt to toxic on heatran if you feel you really need it.

Trick room is obviously annoying but if you get good making appropriate doubles you can play around it same goes for any set up Mon too.

Edit: also could you provide replays because that might show how these things are sweeping which would benefit me as someone who rates teams to take this more into consideration and you as a player. This would be greatly appreciated bud :)
Yeah I'll put something up next time it happens. Ty.
 

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