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I mean as far as you think that implication goes wrt you asking people to throw, I never think people are actually gonna throw. You can ask them the question but even in real survivor no matter how complicated the alliance mechanics it's basically never right to actually throw.
Whatever, I've said all I need to say and heard everything I'm gonna hear.
I actually have a question to Jalmont because I genuinely don't know the answer.
Jalmont Did you know with certaintly that the idol I gave to Hawkie was the riddle idol (since I lied and said it was a different idol only good for that tribal council that I got from being voted the tribe's champion; I also tried to play this possibility up by telling people before voting for a champion that the champion probably will get an advantage)? And the bigger question is who did you tell that I had found the idol, if you did believe that I found it?
In short, I'm also asking the entire jury if they, as individuals, knew if I had found the Root idol or not. I mean, I certainly didn't want everyone to find out because I figured it would increase my threat levels but I think Jalmont could've spoiled it if he really wanted to.
What win condition though? Heal won every immunity after Whydon was gone barring one, and that one was at a time when the CAP group was still completely unwilling to vote him out anyway.
If Whydon had used his idol..... ugh the fact that he actually had one is making me see this game in a completely different light
But you knew he probably had one. I can't copy/paste the logs from our group chat since I left it, but I did tell you personally about Whydon group likely having an idol in f14 and I know I went into more detail in group chat during f13.
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
have you heard about this mess of a late vote change
Flyhn-09/20/2017
....no
Why?
Did everyone ignore me and flip off PD -_-
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Seriously I don't want anyone other than PD gone this week. I've said that repeatedly
Or... is this the other side?
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
some people are flipping off pd to uh
dbw?
i think?
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Wobbuffet?
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
yea
lemme check
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Wobbuffet of all people?
That's... odd
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
oh
it's apparently
not set and is
either hilo or dbw
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Or Hilo?
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
yea
basically, there's rumors that uh
they're trying to set a final 5
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Wouldn't surprise me
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
and someone says they have an idol too
so yea
idk
im like not against this pd vote but i'm also a little worried about the idol claim
i have no idea who is biting on this vote change tho
Flyhn-09/20/2017 sigh
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
i havent changed
Flyhn-09/20/2017
I already voted for PD and am sleeping soon
Same
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
i feel like this can be dealt with next cycle
but
idk
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Heal contacted me
Giving me the same rumor you mentioned
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
yeah heal's the one i got the rumors from
Flyhn-09/20/2017
So
The plan is...?
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
uhhh
man i have no clue lol
i'm probably gonna flip vote unless i get a good reason not to
idol seems more of a threat than team pd
which has like
5 people max?
probably just 4? idk
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Heal says PD's a threat
But not as much as Whydon and his group
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
yea
idk i feel
very on the periphery this game
lol
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Same tbh
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
but yea i think probably whydon now pd tomorrow
Flyhn-09/20/2017
Lost everything I had during my time on Kyogre
The flip itself is on Hilo or Dbw
Since Whydon holds the immunity more likely
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
yea
i guess prolly hilo?
Flyhn-09/20/2017
That's what I'd say
DuckDuckPwn-09/20/2017
cool
Flyhn-09/20/2017
DBW is less threatening than Hilo tbh
I actually have a question to Jalmont because I genuinely don't know the answer.
Jalmont Did you know with certaintly that the idol I gave to Hawkie was the riddle idol (since I lied and said it was a different idol only good for that tribal council that I got from being voted the tribe's champion; I also tried to play this possibility up by telling people before voting for a champion that the champion probably will get an advantage)? And the bigger question is who did you tell that I had found the idol, if you did believe that I found it?
In short, I'm also asking the entire jury if they, as individuals, knew if I had found the Root idol or not. I mean, I certainly didn't want everyone to find out because I figured it would increase my threat levels but I think Jalmont could've spoiled it if he really wanted to.
I knew root idol was used by Hawkie and was a result of the riddle challenge. I did not know who originally found it because it made 0 difference to me.
You've got to remember Claw legitimately had NOBODY find the idol. What indication would there be that this wasn't the case elsewhere?
Outside of that... if he had it i figured now that it was common knowledge he was threatening as hell and people WERE starting to doubt he had an idle, he would've USED IT
The possibility was still in the back of my mind and I put it on his shoulders to prove it... and he didn't.
I was conflicted whether Whydon had the idol or not, and it was very hard for me to tell for certain. I strongly felt that even if he had it he wouldn't play it because he lied to Flyhn and me about playing it earlier. I also knew that while it was uncertain that it would instill more confidence in my allies, like Flyhn, to vote Whydon out if they believed that the overwhelming odds were that he didn't have the idol (and so I set out to get "evidence" I could use to say he didn't have one). Flyhn helped me get the vote off of me and onto Viper in the event it was played (which would hurt both of us less than if I was voted out) which shows that we were aware of the possibility of it existing. I knew that Flyhn wasn't fully trusting of Whydon and I tried to split that trust up fully by convincing him that even the idol itself likely was a lie. Again, the fact that Whydon lied by saying he'd play it before but didn't helped it become easier to show that Whydon was manipulating people (and Flyhn specifically) and that he needed to be voted out and that we had the power to do so.
So you're saying in a game that took 7 goddamn months people aren't taking elimination personally?
....exactly how much time to you guys have that a 7 month game isn't personal? Or am I the only one crazy enough about Survivor/BB that my commitment is on par to that of an official game?
Even if people did take certain actions personally, they don't want to hear you say you deserve to win because they shouldn't give the win to someone who backstabbed them, they want you to describe the things you did they suggest why you should win. Certainly people may be willing to vote you because of that, but it's a bad look to assume you have those votes and not consider the fact that, hey, some people may find it really important to reward the player who played the best. They may believe that "big moves" and playing both sides is a reason worthy to crown a winner. What exactly did you do that makes you worthy of being a winner over someone like that?
Can we just give Heal the win please lol. I can agree that this F3 is kinda dissapointing but he was actually active and chill to talk to throughout the entirety of the game. No matter which way you look at it neither of the other two deserve to win. Flyhn isn't even convincing that he actually wants to win and Animus seems to be arguing that his strategy was just lurking and doing nothing for most of the game, which honestly seems completely against the spirit of the game and I'm pretty annoyed that someone like that even got to the final three tbh.
things seem to be winding down so i'm going to give you all until the end of tomorrow (the 10th) to continue discussing, then i'll close the tribal council and get the votes from the jury.
My vote doesn't matter so "why bother" but idk ill just give my 2c
Heal didn't play that great of a game. The real reason he made it to the end was that he happened to have multiple allies survive to the merge + pre-game connections. That's not impressive in the slightest. There were multiple points where, had anything been different, he would've been voted off. If Animus coasted to the end, then heal bumbled his way there, with literally almost every action he took going towards losing the game. The only reason he's going to win is Flyhn's questionable responses which is a shame. Yeah, good on him for taking advantage of that to get to the end, but it really isn't that impressive. Nobody targeted him because he was always an option for people simply due to his connections. There was no need to talk to people that others didn't know too well since everyone thought they had Heal. Yeah, that's a mistake by everyone, but can you really blame everyone after spending so goddamn long on this game? I don't blame PD/hilo for never talking to me by the time the merge hit because of how long the game happened. of course it's a lot easier to stick with people you've already interacted with.
If you wanted to snake out your alliance, you should've just done it full stop instead of making bizarre decisions that only benefited you because you were being thrown challenges. I bet Viper feels really dumb about doing that now.
"Big Moves" the most nonsensical phrase ever, but let's look at Heal's big moves if that's why we're giving him the W:
Giving Hawkie an HII to vote off RODAN - first off, I didn't know that was the actual immunity idol. Second off, that was a huge waste of an idol that could've backfired incredibly on Heal if I had decided I wanted him out instead, which I didn't because [irrelevant reason here]. Heal risked his entire game to save someone who was on the outs of his own tribe as it would've been incredibly simple to split the votes. Lucky for him that I am an honorable and loyal player. probably the worst move heal made in this game funnily enough.
Voting DLE for no reason - fortunate for Heal that no one was in a position to do anything about it, but he voted DLE for no reason and basically should've lost all credibility there if not for early merge + ppl not really caring. Bad move.
Tying the vote on me. Just vote me out dude. I would've had 10000% more respect if you had just voted me out initially instead of wasting everyone's time by bothering with a tie vote. That also could've backfired tremendously on you had haruno swapped and rocks had happened. pretty shitty not even giving me a heads up or being like "sorry man i gotta do what's best for me." i totally would've gotten it too.
Voting off Haruno - technically not a "big move" but you got rid of someone who was never going to win for 0 reason and kept around players who actually had chances of winning. He was also responsible for saving your entire game lol. Actually I lied. This was probably your best play given that Flyhn tried to push Viper and thus get rid of your only path to free immunities and break up ur voting bloc. so good job there i guess
You're incredibly lucky to win even then - a smaller jury (aka getting rid of the for sure votes for you), better performance by Flyhn (or even Animus lmao) would result in you losing by a blowout.
My only regret was that I didn't talk more to sparktrain and pidge. I didn't read the situation well enough then, partly due to lack of interest + school, but partly just my fault as well. Haruno also fucked up his game by voting me out but I guess that's pretty expected of Haruno. I suppose I deservedly got burned but still. gg my dudes
Jalmont, hullo. Before I dive into the above post, I just want to briefly explain my full process for voting you off specifically.
In the weeks just before you were voted off, during a previous vote you came to me and literally asked me if you could have permission to "throw" one of your votes away.
Jalmont-10/16/2017
can i throw away my vote
HeaLnDeaL-10/16/2017
what's going on?
Jalmont-10/16/2017
idk i just dont feel good about voting whydon
HeaLnDeaL-10/16/2017
and what's your plan with the throwaway / wut are you trying to accomplish?
idk feels like you're trying to keep a relationship to whydon/whydon's allies or am I missing something?
Jalmont-10/16/2017
i dont know what im trying to accomplish
i just dont know what to do
so i want to do nothing
lol
HeaLnDeaL-10/16/2017
: s
(discussion continues onward but you get the gist)
First off, I think that you asking me for permission to do something itself shows how much control I had over the game at this point. However, when you said the above it made me really question who you actually wanted to work with. To me, it seemed like you were either 1) pandering to Whydon to get him as a jury vote or 2) pandering to Whydon's leftover allies because you still wanted to entertain the possibility of working with them down the line. I knew that from that moment on I couldn't keep you in the game, even if you were my Root Brother. Let's face it, it's obvious as hell I'm getting a lot of flack for playing the way I did and taking the people to the end that I did. But I knew that if I took you or Blazade to the end that either of you could have a strong case; Blazade because he played a strong strategic game and was good with puzzles and you because you were playing a social game. I knew that there were three "groups" since the merge and I fully admit to playing with two of those groups, but when you were telling me you wanted to throw your vote away, it looked like to me that you were playing with our group and Whydon's group.
The main reasons why you weren't my immediate target next is because after Whydon was voted out, sparktrain told me that he and pidge were targeting Animus and I needed to get them out next in order to protect my most loyal ally and my win condition. In terms of telling you about my plan to vote you out before it happened, I figured you were a socially savvy player and that if I said anything you might have a chance to scramble and figure something out to stay alive. There's a reason why blindsides are a thing; if people think they are safe, it's easier for a plan to get them out to actually work... if someone feels unsafe, scrambling happens (like when PD and I felt unsafe after Whydon didn't give PD the idol after promising him to so I scrambled and kept him safe). I admit to purposely trying to make people feel safe for this reason.
The criticism on forcing the tie is fair but I was trying to make it seem to Flyhn and Blazade that I was only doing it to save them from rocks (ultimately this is the point where Blazade lost trust in me but he would have whether I split the votes at first or not... but evidenced by what Flyhn said here, Flyhn still had trust in me and I think my move here is in part why he did, among all of the other real relationship building we had). Also, at that stage I knew Haruno wasn't going to flip since I was having minimal contact with Haruno, which was more than anyone else told me they had with him. I then tried to empathize with Haruno during the "what do people think of each other" challenge by telling him I thought the hosts made a bad move to DQ him for not sending in answers on time when he thought not sending in answers meant that it would default to his personal answers from the beginning. I certainly didn't have a strategic relationship with Haruno but it sounded like no one was talking to him... so well, I tried to keep it short and sweet. And from the little I got from Haruno, he seems like a funny character but someone who likes to enjoy things under his own terms and likes to have fun, and I respect that (during the DLE Haruno genius game deathmatch Haruno also offered to let me know what his passcode was in advance, which only made his sense of humor show through even more since it was "FDLE").
I apologize that I hurt you in the vote. My vote message included a long rant about how you were my first ally but that you were a threat and that it seemed like you were talking to more people than just me and I was afraid of that... in the end, I never felt like we had a final three bond and many times I would try to start up a conversation and you wouldn't bite. Truth is I did consider you my friend, but I had other friends in the game that seemed to have a stronger relationship with or who had more strategic value for me.
HeaLnDeaL-10/31/2017
hey
if you're on rn do you wanna test for the challenge?
Jalmont-10/31/2017
im in class lol sorry
maybe in a bit though
HeaLnDeaL-10/31/2017
okie
just remember
if you look hard enough
you will see tha your teacher has a potato head
and don't look down
you'll see you forgot to zip ur fly up
inserts other classroom distractions here :^)
Jalmont-10/31/2017
LOL
ty :]
Moments like the above might seem insignificant and corny, but I really did care about you and wanted to have fun with you and be friends : )
Regarding the Hawkie vote, I don't think you had any reason to really want to betray me, so that's why I let you in on the plan. I mean, the situation that was contrived was that Hawkie literally had no reason to betray me because he knew that everyone on the tribe wanted him out except me and therefore he knew his only chance in the game was if he helped me this vote and if we didn't go to tribal council again before a swap. That was Hawkie's only path forward and he knew it... and unfortunately for him we did go to another tribal council and he left. When I told you about the plan (omitting the part where it was a riddle idol I found), I also told Mithril. Mithril was my closest strategic ally on root mainly in part because if I'm being completely honest you just weren't giving me the attention I wanted and Mithril compensated for that. After Rodan was to be voted out, the tribe would be down to 6. By telling both you and Mithril together it was a purposeful safety net for myself because I was saying with my actions "hey, I'm close to you Jalmont, and I'm close to you Mithril. We can make a 3 and be safe by not being in a minority if we need to." I certainly didn't flat out say that, but I wanted my actions to include both of you on the plan to suggest that this could happen as long as you wanted it. And for the next reason why I knew you wouldn't use the information against me to vote me out... I knew you didn't have the power to. The tribe was 7 people. Mithril, Asek, and I had a three person alliance that I very much trusted, Hawkie trusted me because he knew I was his ONLY ally, therefore Mithril+Asek+myself+Hawkie were 4 people who I knew couldn't vote me out. This left you, LG, and Rodan on the other side. Even if you tried to backstab me that vote, you'd suddenly have 3 people left mad at you, and I had relationships with you already so I didn't think you'd want to do that in the first place. At this stage LG and I didn't know each other that well but we still talked a bit about the game. I specifically told you over LG about the plan because it seemed LG might have a reason to stop it because he was close to Rodan, whereas in my earliest conversations with you, you had identified Rodan as a threat but just that you were apprehensive about crossing him in a way that he knew about it.... Well, I came up with the plan to cross him in a way that he and the rest of the tribe (well, at least LG and Asek) wouldn't know about.
Jalmont said:
Heal didn't play that great of a game. The real reason he made it to the end was that he happened to have multiple allies survive to the merge + pre-game connections. That's not impressive in the slightest. There were multiple points where, had anything been different, he would've been voted off. If Animus coasted to the end, then heal bumbled his way there, with literally almost every action he took going towards losing the game. The only reason he's going to win is Flyhn's questionable responses which is a shame. Yeah, good on him for taking advantage of that to get to the end, but it really isn't that impressive. Nobody targeted him because he was always an option for people simply due to his connections. There was no need to talk to people that others didn't know too well since everyone thought they had Heal. Yeah, that's a mistake by everyone, but can you really blame everyone after spending so goddamn long on this game? I don't blame PD/hilo for never talking to me by the time the merge hit because of how long the game happened. of course it's a lot easier to stick with people you've already interacted with.
The bolded lines are important to address. It is because of the specific game moves that made that I was always an option for so many of the players to think they could work with me. It was no accident that I had multiple allies to work with once the merge hit; I earned those allies throughout the game based on my actions and relationship building. This goes back to the Hawkie idol (I also want to say that historically in the Survivor game, having relationships and talking a lot with a lot of people on your original tribe is expected, because people want to go to a swap or merge with that bond where no one feels on the bottom. Because of this I thought it was safe for me to build those relationships with all of Jalmont, Mithril, Asek, Hawkie, and LG). If LG actually knew I voted out his close ally Rodan then I'm not sure if he would have worked with me on the swapped tribe. But since the move was under wraps, he and I were the only Roots on that tribe, and we were able to create a stronger relationship over that. Because I still maintained a relationship with LG, I was able to get a relationship to Blazade through LG and we were able to find common ground through our mutual appreciation for metal music (and we made the "metal bros" alliance). Because I maintained a close relationship with you, Jalmont (and I'd like to believe me telling you about the Rodan plan beforehand helped you trust me more), I was able to build something with DLC through you, which led me to Flyhn through DLC. It isn't an accident by any means that I was able to build relationships. I was able to keep a pulse on the game and the relationships I chose to make yielded me information and opportunity to build even more relationships.
You can compare some of my back stabbing to players like Russel Hantz if you want to, and some of Flyhn's comments of thinking that the backstabber or the sneaky strategic player always lose the game might support this comparision. The reason why the comparison fails is because my personal behavior in the game was nothing like Russel's. I didn't try to create an alliance with "dumbs blondes"/"dumb girls" (Russel's words) and treat my own allies and everyone poorly at a personal level... I didn't try to create intimidation by burning socks or hiding machetes. Instead, I tried to build relationships. Yeah, my relationship building became rather web-like and I had the options to pick and choose who I wanted to work with, but I did this by being friendly and listening to others and keeping a pulse of the game to know who was working with who and finding my path to maneuver. I wasn't satisfied with allying with only CAP people and I wanted to meet new people and experience an adventure and take full advantage of the opportunity to form bonds and connections. When I voted all of you guys, the members of the jury, out it was never in spite or do to personal reasons. Almost every vote was a personal cut to myself because I felt bad about severing a relationship, almost every vote was painful. The primary reason why I could keep my emotions of voting my friends out in check was because I spent hours and hours writing to rssp1 and the hosts with monologues/confessionals. I made the discovery very early on in the game that I was getting emotional connections to a lot of people but that if I was too emotional in front of my tribemates, I would look weak or unstable. But I still needed that release, and the hosts were my release for my sadness and frustration and whatever other emotions I was feeling that this game placed upon me. Part of why Mithril and I made a great team is because Mithril was my original check to my emotions. One of my conversations with Mithril involved the realization that Mithril could more calmly assess strategy than what I could and helped keep me in check and that we made a good team because I could be real and friendly and Mithril could step back and analyze. I observed Mithril, talked to Mithril, strategized with Mithril and most importantly learned from Mithril on how to be a calmer strategist, on how to play the game without freaking out. I learned from Mithril, mostly just through my interactions with him and through experimenting with how I wanted to interact with the hosts, that I could achieve a balance of being friendly and stable to other players and letting my feelings out to the hosts. I think I learned throughout the game and was able to use what I learned to compensate for my weaknesses.
Part of Jalmont's critique is that I got lucky and the "right" people who were destined to be my allies ended up in the merge for me to do my magic. I think this is not entirely accurate, as I lost a number of my close allies throughout the game, including Hawkie, Mithril, Asek, and LG and I was weakened by their loss. Sure, Animus made it to the merge and he was arguably my best chip, but after being with Animus on the first tribe swap, I purposely made sure to set him up with PD to keep both of them safe if another swap happened.
I built the relationships, and I care about you still even if I had to vote you out. And I hope we can strengthen those relationships again now that the game is over. Thanks everyone, including the hosts, for this opportunity and I look forward to becoming more involved in Circus from here on out.
I’m shocked viper didn’t go at f7 and convincing flyhn/blazade/jalmont against it is easily heal’s best play because from there he can just coast and pick his side. And he always picks the less active and ambitious one in f6
I blame myself for that one, DLE. No amount of dialogue with heal could really affect my opinion at that point, but I nevertheless had a misread of thr gamestate based on how wob/haruno/viper/animus were acting in challenges.
Look, i've always been bad at defending myself. That's always been my one biggest weakness. It's why i'm so averse to stabbing when even the possibility of not getting away with it exists. It's why I went on a tangent and basically shot my credibility in the foot in this final council. Hell, it's why I play so passive. I don't like being on the defensive. Ever. It makes me panic, and it's very unpleasant.
Yes, Heal controled the game. Yes, I let him because I didn’t think I could pull off anything else without making a scene that put a target on my back. Whydon was an easy stab because everyone outside of 2 or 3 people wanted him gone. Heal would've been suicide because of apathy among his allies. So I submitted to it myself. But i wasn't as apathetic. I tried VERY hard to win each and every immunity challenge, only to fall on my face through lack of mons skill, or it being a social challenge and wanting to stay under Heal's radar.
The one thing I will say here is I tried. I tried VERY hard... and my ego got in my way and convinced me "because you tried the hardest, that'll be enough even if you fail. Juries love underdogs, and hate letting the puppetmaster win".... clearly that wasn't the case. Every one of my weaknesses came to bite me in the ass.
....and i'm still fighting. I'm still willing to argue. Even though Heal's game was more controling, I STILL think I can win somehow if I say the right thing.... but i can't find what that is.
If anyone has any more questions for me, i'll try to restrain my ego and give a more proper answer. Give me one more chance. Please.
I’m shocked viper didn’t go at f7 and convincing flyhn/blazade/jalmont against it is easily heal’s best play because from there he can just coast and pick his side. And he always picks the less active and ambitious one in f6
I wasn't convinced so much as not only Heal but Blazade was ALSO against it at the time, and I didn't want to alienate the only people left on my side. I gave it pushing when it was clear doing so was suicidal and there was no way I'd get through to either of them
I may have been unsuccessful, but i was going for Viper every single week starting from and including F8. I voted Wob instead because that's not only what Heal asked, but it also would've left BOTH Viper and Animus open in rocks... as well as myself and Blazade, but it was the best option we had. It was 2/5 we got what we wanted, 2/5 it backfired, 1/5 Haruno was taken out and not much happened, so I wasn't worried. That and if Heal wanted to go for Jalmont, again WHY would he have tied it in the first place? He was talking to Blazade and I about how much the 2/5 chance of it being one of us wasn't worth it, which was crap. I knew it too, I just hid it better than Blazade apparently did.
If there's one thing I've honed to a fine art, it's convincing people I'm stupid. Helps that I also had some LEGITIMATELY stupid moments to help sell the act
Well I'm misremembering shit now. The vote i got so anal about wasn't even about Viper, it was getting rid of Wob before Haruno because the former was less likely to take Me/Blazade's side, no matter how unlikely Haruno might have also been. Heal was against this, Blazade was against this.
...see, more stupid stuff. At least it helps hide when I'm actually not being stupid and just pretending every time it happens :P
