SPL IX - Commencement Thread

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kaori

Fully Automated Gay Space Communism
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Lemonade

WOOPAGGING
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Players should not be deciding what happens, sv has pressure from his team to take the win (presumably), and pressure from everyone else to do the honorable thing, which just creates a bad competitive environment because either way hate is going toward the players
 

Heroic Troller

Through the Sea of Time
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World Defender
He prolly agreed at first just in case he dced, that's the problem. The best way to handle this would be asking at the start and keeping the first as only answer so at least they don't change in order to look fake-good and then doing this stuff.

I'm not even against the timer himself but what sv did is ridicolous.
 

Ricardo

Banned deucer.
There's a difference between playing a game for fun that involves simple rules and trying to manipulate things for your benefit though.

The time gets stopped for no reason and then your manager attacks donut yet you have the courage to complain the way you did, offending people who did nothing wrong? lmao.

You didn't even use fucking team submissions, going out of your way to get fucked by something like this and you still bitch about it.

Grow the fuck up.
 

M Dragon

The north wind
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As most of you have already noticed, I have quitted my TD position after the events that happened yesterday.

1) Why I stopped the timer in the game vs Conflict:
One of the players had a nearly 100% winning chance (unless something ridic like doube freeze and staying frozen for 10+ turns) and DCd when he had 240 secs left in his timer. Because the dumb reconnect mechanics, the player only had 60 secs to reconnect. When I signed up, timer had only 5 secs left so I obv couldnt ask d0nut before the timeout. I also did not know if Conflict had submitted his team or no (fact: he submitted his team in the other 3 weeks, so I assumed he had done as well for this game).
If I stop the timer and I was wrong, it is as easy as assuming there has been a timeout. If I dont stop the timer there is drama and a likely recreation (if the player has submitted the team). I have stopped the timer multiple times in the past in similar situations and I would have done the same again.


2) About current community mentality:
It is amazing how community has changed in these 10 years since I joined Smogon, both positively and negatively. Smogon used to be a much smaller community, but people played to proof they were the good players, trying to beat the best players with their own teams. Nowadays it seems that the only things that matters is winning, it does not matter how. If you can steal a win, you will. If theres a small hole in the rules, there is people that will abuse it to try to cheat. We all want to win for sure, but some people would do absolutely anything to steal a win, and Im not talking about taking a DC win or a timeout win, something most people would do in a team tournament, and I do not really blame those players, I blame whoever allows that to happen.


3) About the DC rules:
I will start by saying that the 60 secs to reconnect after a DC is terrible. It is not normal that a player that has 240 secs left in his timer only has 60 secs to reconnect. A player should have min(60,current timer) secs to reconnect.

Another thing is the "100% win chance rule". And I will give 2 examples:
a) Wcop. Sw vs Asuya game. Asuya had already said gg, he only had a Volcarona vs a Sp Def Heatran with Toxic. Sw DCd and he didnt send his team, and Luck got the win because "there was a very small chance of Volca winning".
b) SPL. Conflict vs d0nut. Conflict had boom Egg + boom Forry + Curselax + ML Umbreon vs 20% Egg + 60% Curselax + 100% Nidoking with Spikes in his favor. Conflict had the game won by exploding Egg in the turn after he DCd. d0nut got he win because "there was a chance of a double freeze + staying 10 turns frozen without unfreezing"
Common sense should be applied here. This is like the triple scald burn case. But hey, apparently this is an old precedent from an old SPL and we shouldnt use it (real log from a TD).

People seem to forget that I created the original DC rule together with Aldaron in WCop, and that it was never created to award wins to players. It was created to prevent free wins to players by stopping the timer in case of DC to give the player enough time to reconnect and finish the game (game is played, no drama), and to give the players a backup in case they DCd and couldnt come back in time (waiting 2/3 mins before activating the timer again)
You shouldnt be awarded with a win because the other player couldnt reconnect in 1 min when he had 4 mins left in his timer. I think thats common sense, but I guess I am wrong.

Conflict should have sent his team? Yes, absolutely. Does that justify the decision of giving him the loss because he couldnt reconnect in 1 min when he had 4 mins left in his timer and the game won unless extremely unlikely luck? In my opinion, no.


4) Why I quitted my TD position.
I have been a TD for 4 years, and 4 years is a long time. In these 4 years I have made some good decisions and I have also made some bad decisions. I have made some friends, I have also made some "friends" and I have made a lot of enemies, but thats what being a TD means.
I have done a lot of things Im proud about, such as multi gen Wcop format that has given a lot of great games, revamping the Wcop elegibilities system, the idea of a new official tournament (Classic) to feature old gens, helping with the creation of anti ghosting rules, creating with Aldaron rules to protect players from DCs, the creation of a policy for tournament and forum bans, the creation of a ranking system for lower tiers, etc

I have always tried to be as fair as possible with my decisions as a TD, doing what I thought it was fair and what I considered that was the best for tournaments. I know I have made mistakes and that I have made some bad calls and some bad decisions, Im not in the possession of the truth.

The reason I am quitting my TD position after 4 years is that I cannot agree or support some of the decisions the TD is making. I have always thought that TDs should not be like machines (strictly following rules, instead of using common sense), and that is exactly what is happening nowadays. Being a TD used to be very different when I started.

I guess I can say it has been a... Pleasure
 
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2) About current community mentality:
It is amazing how community has changed in these 10 years since I joined Smogon, both positively and negatively. Smogon used to be a much smaller community, but people played to proof they were the good players, trying to beat the best players with their own teams. Nowadays it seems that the only things that matters is winning, it does not matter how. If you can steal a win, you will. If theres a small hole in the rules, there is people that will abuse it to try to cheat. We all want to win for sure, but some people would do absolutely anything to steal a win, and Im not talking about taking a DC win or a timeout win, something most people would do in a team tournament, and I do not really blame those players, I blame whoever allows that to happen.
I personally have no problem with how you handled the situation and for the record, I think you're in the right in this entire situation. However, the fact that you of all people would say this little tidbit if hilarious to me. I have also been on smogon for quite a while, and we did match up a long time ago in SPL2 week 9. I don't know if you remember the details of the match, so I'll give you a brief. I DC'ed that game against you, with a fair chance of winning the game, but you snaked a win by lying through your teeth.

1517248218107.png


You went out of your way to lie about your Chansey moveset so that it would be convenient for you to win. You even had the audacity to say that I forged this log. I'm all for saying that the older community was a better one, but don't act like it was any different 7 years ago than it is today. You were the same exact type of person these new guys are, obsessed over a record and willing to go out of the spirit of the game to obtain it.
 

M Dragon

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World Defender
It is a good thing I still have old logs.
You had Nidoqueen (TS + FBlast + EPower + IB) + Blissey (TW + Wish + FT + ??) left
I had Chansey (Wish) + Dragonite (Bulky Sub) + Forretress + Thundurus + Unrevealed left.
The only hazards were rocks against me

My SPL team was already out of POs and this game did not matter for anything. I dont remember what my team was, but lying there when you were the one that DCd and I had a massive advantage in that game (lol you werent even breaking dnite subs with IB nidoqueen in my roosts).
I had 5 pokemons and you had 2, you had no hazards other than TS. TDs reviewed the log and said that you had no chance of winning. I also sent them my team and the log.

Why bringing this back? Nobody took you seriously back then.

As I say in my post, I dont blame people from trying to get DC wins, most of people would (I have in the past). The difference here is that every uninvolved part said that I had the game won, and therefore they gave me the win, which is how things worked back then (something I changed when I was a TD).

Accusing me of lying is just ridiculous, I had 0 reasons to lie LOL.
 
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