[SM] CAP Viability Ranking Thread

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Hey, so I have a few questions.

1. Why is Zydoge ranked, let alone B-?
2. Why is Talonflame ranked?
3. Why is Confagrigus ranked?
SHSP covered 2 and 3. Overall they're extremely niche but usable on specific teams.

I personally believe Zygarde-10% could drop. It was initially ranked based on the perceived viability of its Choice Band set, as it theoretically makes good use of it with its nice base 115 Speed tier and unblockable Ground STAB. However, it struggles a lot from a competition and metagame standpoint. Zygarde-50% tends to pull off the Choice Band set a little better since the added bulk is quite valuable, allowing it to better take advantage of the resistances offered by Dragon/Ground typing (and not get revenge killed by a light breeze. seriously, 54/71/85 is pitiful). And in general, the Choice Band set isn't amazing with Tomohawk and Tangrowth being as common as they are. It's nothing special against any of the good team archetypes at the moment, and I think its rank should be adjusted accordingly.
 
SHSP covered 2 and 3. Overall they're extremely niche but usable on specific teams.

I personally believe Zygarde-10% could drop. It was initially ranked based on the perceived viability of its Choice Band set, as it theoretically makes good use of it with its nice base 115 Speed tier and unblockable Ground STAB. However, it struggles a lot from a competition and metagame standpoint. Zygarde-50% tends to pull off the Choice Band set a little better since the added bulk is quite valuable, allowing it to better take advantage of the resistances offered by Dragon/Ground typing (and not get revenge killed by a light breeze. seriously, 54/71/85 is pitiful). And in general, the Choice Band set isn't amazing with Tomohawk and Tangrowth being as common as they are. It's nothing special against any of the good team archetypes at the moment, and I think its rank should be adjusted accordingly.
I agree with you. I personally think it should drop to either D or UR. It at this point has near to no reason to be run anymore, especially with Zygarde-50% being as good as it is (so good it is about to be raised in OU to S). The final blow was MegaMeta's departure, which was the one thing people used to deal with MegaMeta as Zygarde-50% is slower than Zydoge.
 

snake

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I agree with you. I personally think it should drop to either D or UR. It at this point has near to no reason to be run anymore, especially with Zygarde-50% being as good as it is (so good it is about to be raised in OU to S). The final blow was MegaMeta's departure, which was the one thing people used to deal with MegaMeta as Zygarde-50% is slower than Zydoge.
Please don't compare OU trends to CAP Metagame trends. While they mirror each other sometimes, it's not good practice to do that. Citing Mega Metagross's ban, however, is valid justification.
 
Hey everyone. I've gotten into CAP relatively recently, and I've enjoyed the metagame not only because there are new pokemon, but the elements of the CAP metagame are more balanced than the OU metagame, which is always good. However, it never ocurred to me that I would want to make a post regarding the ranking of a pokemon in this thread. I've never made a post in the CAP Viability Rankings thread, let alone in any CAP thread, mainly due to the fact that in the past I wasn't sure if I knew enough about the CAP metagame(even now, there are still some things about it I haven't touched on), so any advice/corrections on my statements would greatly be appreciated.


Mega Heracross---->A-
Now that mega Heracross is released, I'd like to nominate it to be placed at A- . I've been playing with Heracross lately, and I've noticed that while the threats such as toxapex and zapdos are less common and viable than they are in OU, there are a lot of threats that are either exclusive to CAP itself or are more common in the CAP metagame that keep it in check. With landorus-t being a staple on so many teams, and the addition of other threats such as tomohawk, aurumoth, and kerfluffle, mega heracross finds it difficult to put work against offensive teams. Even when facing the likes of balanced teams, which commonly contain landorus-t and tomohawk, mega heracross has a bit of trouble putting in work when these threats are still on the field. However, I will not deny that mega heracross defnitely has a very strong matchup against balanced and slower teams alike. Given that landorus-t, one of its main checks, is quite easily worn down, mega heracross requires little support to weaken its checks to the point where it can ravage the opposing team when they are properly weakened or killed. In addition, by virtue of its typing, power and coverage, mega heracross poses a threat to many common defensive threats such as pyroak, mega scizor(need prior damage to guarantee a 2HKO), cyclohm, mollux, and mega sableye. Swords dance and substitute sets further improve its matchup against these threats by neutering status or allowing mega heracross to break through them, of course.

That being said, with the entry of mega heracross into the metagame, I would like to nominate Buzzwole down to C+/C Rank. The mere presence of mega heracross gives buzzwole stiff competition as a powerful fighting-type wallbreaker. Although buzzwole has certain aspects that mega heracross lacks, such as the ability to run a SubPunch set, a STAB move which provides it recovery, Ice punch, which makes handling landorus-t a lot easier, and, most notably roost, its lack of power on its secondary STAB and its lack of access to a better fighting type move(it is forced to use SubPunch, hammer arm, or superpower, the latter two which hinder its offensive/defensive capabilities and the former requiring an extra moveslot) really hinder it when compared to mega heracross, especially considering the aforementioned "consequences" to using some of its moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-582153776 although mega heracross did not achieve much in this battle aside from killing chansey a the end, this shows how the proper teammates can pave the way for heracross to clean up under normal circumstances.
 
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BP

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Bronzong C---->B- or B

So believe it or not but Bronzong is actually really useful from my experience. In today's current meta-game I've been using it as an Defensive pivot and it has been working out pretty well. It acts as a good Stealth Rock Pokemon to use out in battle because of its Steel Typing and its ability Levitate. It can check a lot of current CAP threats such as Landorus-Therian, Tapu Lele, and Garchomp. I think Bronzong is very underutilized in this metagame and these are just some of the reasons why.

EDIT
After taking a much closer look at our friend Bronzong I have realized I left a lot out. Bronzong is very splash-able on balance oriented teams due to its ability to pressure offensive threats. Levitate is so incredibly useful in this metagame for this Pokemon. I think the Deciding factor for this Pokemon to be moved up is its ability to check prominent Pokemon in the tier such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and the Tapu squad.​
 
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Bronzong C---->B- or B

So believe it or not but Bronzong is actually really useful from my experience. In today's current meta-game I've been using it as an Defensive pivot and it has been working out pretty well. It acts as a good Stealth Rock Pokemon to use out in battle because of its Steel Typing and its ability Levitate. It can check a lot of current CAP threats such as Landorus-Therian, Tapu Lele, and Garchomp. I think Bronzong is very underutilized in this metagame and these are just some of the reasons why.

EDIT
After taking a much closer look at our friend Bronzong I have realized I left a lot out. Bronzong is very splash-able on balance oriented teams due to its ability to pressure offensive threats. Levitate is so incredibly useful in this metagame for this Pokemon. I think the Deciding factor for this Pokemon to be moved up is its ability to check prominent Pokemon in the tier such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and the Tapu squad.​
The problem is with Bronzong is that it's insanely chippable. It doesn't really check defensive LandoT because of Knock Off and it can act as a check but not for a certain amount of turns. Within this metagame where the damage output is very high, Bronzongs chippability really puts a wrench in its gears. Tapu BUlu can chip down Zong insanely quickly so to check it properly you need to run physically defensive, but then that leaves you wide open to Koko, Shadow Ball Lele (which is run on almost all Lele's) and Fini. I do think Bronzong is great as a steel type within this metagame, but with Pokemon like Landorus-T and Mega Scizor having so much of a niche over Bronzong (LandoT has offensive utility with SR and Sciz has Defog and Roost as well as a steel typing and good defensive stats) I don't see Bronzong fitting in B. The metagame might be favorable for Bronzong but so many common Pokemon and cores can do its job more effectively as well as provide additional all-round support. I think its good role compression but that doesn't necessarily make it B rank.
 

Speaking of bulky psychics,
Reuniclus: C Rank----->B-/B Rank
Reuniclus, in my opnion, is a highly anti-metagame threat which is underprepared for in the CAP metagame. The reason I am requesting for it to rise on the Viability Rankings is that Mega Medicham is becoming increasingly common, and defensive answers to it are limited to mega sableye(stall only pretty much), slowbro(mega), mew, and reuniclus itself;the former two need to be cautious of an electric terrain-boosted thunderpunch, which can 2HKO them with a bit of prior damage. What makes reuniclus on parin viability or different from the other bulky pokemon,which can safely switch into mega medicham in most cases, that give it competition, then? Well, mega sableye is limited to being used on stall and semi-stall archetypes due to the fact that it is too much of a momentum drain on other tems, moreso than reuniclus. Mew may possess more bulk than reuniclus overall, yes, but it performs a dfferent role in spreading burns and potentially removing hazards(or settng rocks), and it can be overwhelmed more easily with that said because its team is dependent on it for oerofrming these numerous roles, on top of switching into the pokemon it needs to. You can argue that slowbro and its mega counterpart are calm mind users and posses a more useful defensive typing, but reuniclus is more reliable at that job. Thanks to magic guard, of course, reuniclus can completely neuter possibly the most crippling thing against slowbro: passive damage. I am only nominating Reuniclus to B Rank at best, however, because the aforementioned pokemon have traits it lacks: example being slowbro being a much better pivot into physical attacks thanks to regenerator, mew being able to support its whole team with hazard damage, removal, and burns. Thank you for taking this into consideration in advance!
 

Drapionswing

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I'm just going to be posting my thoughts on earlier nominations.

Syclant A+ > A: Disagree

Syclant is honestly one of the best CAPs in the metagame and the nominations down actually surprised me. Although Greninja is the best Spiker in the metagame that isn't to say Syclant isn't capable of spiking reliably. Syclant can pivot while preserving a Focus Sash thanks to Mountaineer or run Taunt to shutdown other potential leads here is an example I found of this. It's still a good set and I don't think Greninja being better than it at spiking warrants a drop. As well as this TG sets are still extremely effective as you can opt for Grounium Z to OHKO Tapu Fini after rocks or chip damage, Sash if you're wanting safer sweeps versus offence lacking priority or just a simple life orb. Claims of Aurumoth being better than Syclant at TG are just untrue in it's entirety as Syclant has a bunch of better options which make it more effective at TG such as, and most importantly, a higher speed tier.

Lastly I've been using scarf Syclant with a moveset of U-turn/Ice Beam/Stone Edge or Bug buzz/Earth Power this moveset allows Syclant to revenge kill a vast array of offensive threats in this metagame while pairing well with other Pivots generating a lot of momentum for team. This set is capable of Revenge killing various threats Such as Volcarona, Charizard-X, Mega Alakazam or Greninja whilst pivoting around extremely well thanks to Mountaineer. People sleep on Syclant, the fast rock immune ice type in a metagame where ground typing is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, offensive typing in the metagame.

Colossoil A > A-/B+


In my opinion Colossoil can not Sweep Support or Wall portions of the metagame as the A rank suggests it should. Colossoil actually​
You're right it doesn't sweep or support anything as it's not a sweeper or a utility mon, it's arguably not even a wall. Colossoil is another amazing CAP that I don't understand why is getting nominated to drop. With Flame Orb's recent buff offensive colossoil has proven to be quite a good pokemon being able to hit faster offensive pokemon with an EXTREMELY strong sucker punch, while also gaining momentum through U-Turn and pressuring defensive walls such as Ferrothorn or Pyroak for great partners such as Magnezone or Tapu Koko. Speaking of Magnezone, Colossoil forms an incredibly strong core with this pokemon which is capable of pressuring Stall teams immensely. AV is also still extremely good giving Colossoil more longevity to preform a spinner role more consistently. Your post was just you saying that you don't see it as often, not really going into specifics as to why it's not used anymore(It's still used a ton anyway)

As for the Reuniclus and Bronzong nominations I personally disagree with them for now because I haven't seen any of these mons actually used or used to any success, if you guys have evidence of the efficiency of these pokemon then post replays, but until then I'm going to be opposed to the nominations. Also Arcade summed up my thoughts on Bronzong pretty well.

 
Tapu Fini to A-

Fini struggles against a lot of common rockers and really hates the lack of recovery. Stuff like SD Lando can wear it down very easily and keep rocks up on it. It's ability as a Fire-check is minimal, as stuff liek Zard-Y and Pyroak just run straight through it. Crucibelle and Pex can set up hazards vs it relatively easily, although taunt mitigates the Pex issue. All the same, it fails to check a lot of what it should, is easily worn down, and falls short as a defogger overall.

Alolawak to B+

Pursuit trapping is slowly coming back into style, which Alolawak absolutely hates. Ttar, for instance, absolutely shits on this thing. Furthermore, as hazard stacking is as good as ever, this thing just gets worn down too easily. It's a good Cyclohm/Tomohawk check but it just falls short in the long term versus everything except those+Koko. It desperately wants both its abilities to successfully break stall and also actually check stuff.

Mence to B+

Mence needs a Z-crystal to kill anything and there are better users rn imo. TTar rising is bad for it. Lando-T being everywhere is bad for it. Far from the best SSSS user. Rise in 101+ scarfers also hurts this a lot, especially as a lot carry rock coverage.

MegaVenu to B

TTar rising in usage is bad, as MVenu hates sand. Rain teams lowkey fuck this up too do to lack of recovery; having a grass type that loses to rain is god awful. It also falls short as a fighting check, as Medicham and Hera walk right through it. Speaking of those 2 megas, that is another problem for MVenu; competition for the mega slots. When AV tang/Amoon can fill the same roll, is it really worth the Mega stone? Nope. Drop this thing hard; it really is not good at all rn and is easily replaceable on 95% of teams.
 
Alrigth, I've waited enough, I'm going to do a few nominations:

-
D --> C / B- : More the old Mega Pokemon are realeased and more Cofagrigus's viability increases, his unique ability Mommy is extremely useful for Balance and even Stall teams against Mega-Medicham, Mega-Mawile, Mega-Pinsir ( a boosted Return hurts, but once he touch you he becomes way less threatening if he's staying) and the rare Azumarill. Unfortunately for Cofag, Toxic Spikes are less useful in CAP than in OU because of Colossoil (which is a big threat, but the flame Orb variant becomes powerless if he decide to hurt Cofag), Crucibelle ( the Mega doesn't like losing Magic Guard either), Mollux, Fidgit and Plasmanta, but are still usable. Finally, we all know that Trick Room is a very effective playstyle in CAP, and that Cofagrigus is a great abuser of it : Never Ending Nightmare at +2 does a very large amount to Special Walls like Celesteela or Mollux. At least, I'm sure that Cofagrigus is way more viable than anything else in D rank, and when Mega-Lopunny, Mega-Altaria, Guts Naviathan, Triage Revenankh, Technician Arghonaut and Wild Charge Krilowatt will all be realeased, I'll probably ask for another rise.

-
C --> B-/B : Just like I've done in ORAS one year ago, I'm going to support Gastrodon rise. It already checks many threats in standard OU like Greninja, Ash Greninja, Tapu Koko (none of them use Grass Knot right ?), Rotom Wash and rain teams, which just gains Mega-Swampert, and is an effective playstyle in CAP as well. In CAP, it provides a solid counter to Volkraken, Mollux, Krilowatt, Naviathan and Plasmanta, and since three of them will be buffed after updates, Gastrodon's viability should increase as well. Despite ythe fact that Gastrodon doesn't provide much support to your team, the number of things it checks/counters makes it a very solid Mon in the current Metagame.

-
Unranked --> B+ : I think that Mega Swampert is just as good as he was last gen under Rain, which is a weather quite helpful for some CAP Mon, so Rain is still a good playstyle and Mega Swampert is in my opinion the best Swift Swimmer, even though it struggles a bit aginst Tomohawk who can just Roost and waiting for Rain to disappear.

I also agree with the four nominations above my post.
 
Alrigth, I've waited enough, I'm going to do a few nominations:

-
D --> C / B- : More the old Mega Pokemon are realeased and more Cofagrigus's viability increases, his unique ability Mommy is extremely useful for Balance and even Stall teams against Mega-Medicham, Mega-Mawile, Mega-Pinsir ( a boosted Return hurts, but once he touch you he becomes way less threatening if he's staying) and the rare Azumarill. Unfortunately for Cofag, Toxic Spikes are less useful in CAP than in OU because of Colossoil (which is a big threat, but the flame Orb variant becomes powerless if he decide to hurt Cofag), Crucibelle ( the Mega doesn't like losing Magic Guard either), Mollux, Fidgit and Plasmanta, but are still usable. Finally, we all know that Trick Room is a very effective playstyle in CAP, and that Cofagrigus is a great abuser of it : Never Ending Nightmare at +2 does a very large amount to Special Walls like Celesteela or Mollux. At least, I'm sure that Cofagrigus is way more viable than anything else in D rank, and when Mega-Lopunny, Mega-Altaria, Guts Naviathan, Triage Revenankh, Technician Arghonaut and Wild Charge Krilowatt will all be realeased, I'll probably ask for another rise.

-
C --> B-/B : Just like I've done in ORAS one year ago, I'm going to support Gastrodon rise. It already checks many threats in standard OU like Greninja, Ash Greninja, Tapu Koko (none of them use Grass Knot right ?), Rotom Wash and rain teams, which just gains Mega-Swampert, and is an effective playstyle in CAP as well. In CAP, it provides a solid counter to Volkraken, Mollux, Krilowatt, Naviathan and Plasmanta, and since three of them will be buffed after updates, Gastrodon's viability should increase as well. Despite ythe fact that Gastrodon doesn't provide much support to your team, the number of things it checks/counters makes it a very solid Mon in the current Metagame.

-
Unranked --> B+ : I think that Mega Swampert is just as good as he was last gen under Rain, which is a weather quite helpful for some CAP Mon, so Rain is still a good playstyle and Mega Swampert is in my opinion the best Swift Swimmer, even though it struggles a bit aginst Tomohawk who can just Roost and waiting for Rain to disappear.

I also agree with the four nominations above my post.

10/10 support cofag to C; Z-shadow ball sets w trick room straight dick so many offensive teams.

MegaPert to B+ is also bueno. Rain is finally legit again and Pert bones a lot of threats to rain like mantine and koko. Having decent bulk is also helpful for an otherwise very frail team structure.

Gastro shouldn't rly move up past C imo. Stuff like Ash-Ninja can overwhelm it easily and it's complete lack of physical bulk make it rather exploitable. It doesn't check rain as it wants to, for instance, as MegaPert straight dicks it. Overall i generally find it too much of a momentum sink and too passive for the teams it wants to fit on. It's just generically outclassed by so many things.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 184-217 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(184, 186, 189, 190, 193, 195, 196, 199, 201, 204, 205, 208, 210, 213, 214, 217)

I think Gastrodon has a pretty good matchup against Mega Swampert. Greninja-Ash is a problem, but it's going to be locked into a bad move (to hit Gastro) most of the time.
 
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 184-217 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(184, 186, 189, 190, 193, 195, 196, 199, 201, 204, 205, 208, 210, 213, 214, 217)

I think Gastrodon has a pretty good matchup against Mega Swampert. Greninja-Ash is a problem, but it's going to be locked into a bad move (to hit Gastro) most of the time.
if you go full physdef, gastro fails to be the special wall u want it to be. I can get calcs later bc i'm on mobile rn, sorry for the temporary shit post.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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I've always run full physical. You could theoretically run a bit less and still avoid the 2hko from Mega Swamp because of the lefties buffer, too.

But you can't really have it both ways. If you were assuming that it was specially invested, then Greninja-Ash doesn't beat it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think Gastrodon is flexible and is able to navigate a number of different threats depending on its investment. Rain going up in usage will always makes Gastrodon more viable, not less. I'm certainly not going to try and argue for a super crazy rise in VR for Gastrodon, but to say that Rain makes Gastrodon worse is a bit far-fetched.

Gastrodon does have a lot of things going for it. Being a defensive switch in for so many things isn't anything to scoff at. I think it's unfair to say it's outclassed when it has so many unique properties that other mons can't match.
 
I've always run full physical. You could theoretically run a bit less and still avoid the 2hko from Mega Swamp because of the lefties buffer, too.

But you can't really have it both ways. If you were assuming that it was specially invested, then Greninja-Ash doesn't beat it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think Gastrodon is flexible and is able to navigate a number of different threats depending on its investment. Rain going up in usage will always makes Gastrodon more viable, not less. I'm certainly not going to try and argue for a super crazy rise in VR for Gastrodon, but to say that Rain makes Gastrodon worse is a bit far-fetched.

Gastrodon does have a lot of things going for it. Being a defensive switch in for so many things isn't anything to scoff at. I think it's unfair to say it's outclassed when it has so many unique properties that other mons can't match.

still on fuckin mobile but i wasn't tryna say that rain makes it worse, merely that it can easily be overwhelmed by rain teams. stuff like torn/ash ninja can blow by physdef and megapert kills spdef. also, even fully invested, a layer or two of spikes turn those 3hkos into 2hkos very easily. power creep is catching up to this mon.
 

snake

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still on fuckin mobile but i wasn't tryna say that rain makes it worse, merely that it can easily be overwhelmed by rain teams. stuff like torn/ash ninja can blow by physdef and megapert kills spdef. also, even fully invested, a layer or two of spikes turn those 3hkos into 2hkos very easily. power creep is catching up to this mon.
Gastrodon pressures your opponent not to use Water-type moves though, especially when Kingdra runs Specs a lot of the time. Spikes are harder to keep up here with actual decent hazard removal (compared to OU anyways). It's not a top pick but if I see Gastrodon when using a rain team I know I have to think really carefully.
 
Gastrodon pressures your opponent not to use Water-type moves though, especially when Kingdra runs Specs a lot of the time. Spikes are harder to keep up here with actual decent hazard removal (compared to OU anyways). It's not a top pick but if I see Gastrodon when using a rain team I know I have to think really carefully.
it's not like hitting gastro w a hydro does much besides lose momentum, as its spa is so low it does jack shit even at +1. ferro or peli are always very reliable switching to gastro, which is just too weak and passive to be worth a teamslot.
 
it's not like hitting gastro w a hydro does much besides lose momentum, as its spa is so low it does jack shit even at +1. ferro or peli are always very reliable switching to gastro, which is just too weak and passive to be worth a teamslot.
Probelm with ferro and peli is that they can both get burned which is detrimental and although Ferro can take hits, he gets worn down, and Peli doesn't always get worn down, but after a while +1 Ice Beams do a lot and there's no real way to beat Gastro. +1 on any mon apart from Puku/Shuckle like mons are always useful because it means you do hit that bit harder, which is important for chip damage. A good team with gastro will also have a good grass check and/or a fire type. I think although Gastro is flawed as you've pointed out,m that doesn't mean its not worth of going anywhere past C. It does multiple roles effectively wth a dual typing which is excellent as an Anti-CAP meta which definitely warrants it at B-, if not more IMO
 
Probelm with ferro and peli is that they can both get burned which is detrimental and although Ferro can take hits, he gets worn down, and Peli doesn't always get worn down, but after a while +1 Ice Beams do a lot and there's no real way to beat Gastro. +1 on any mon apart from Puku/Shuckle like mons are always useful because it means you do hit that bit harder, which is important for chip damage. A good team with gastro will also have a good grass check and/or a fire type. I think although Gastro is flawed as you've pointed out,m that doesn't mean its not worth of going anywhere past C. It does multiple roles effectively wth a dual typing which is excellent as an Anti-CAP meta which definitely warrants it at B-, if not more IMO
Even at +1 gastro is such a momentum sink it's just not worth a teamslot. Even against a frail, offensive team structure such as rain, +1 gastro isn't a threat whatsoever. First off, virtually no gastro's run ice beam; the set should almost always be toxic/scald/recover/ground STAB. Earth power and EQ both see usage. Even at +1, Gastro does jack shit to ferro, which is a staple on rain this generation. +1 Scald does like 13% and +1 EP does like 26%. Meanwhile, even if Ferro gets burned, this still happens : 0 Atk burned Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 228-270 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Gastro sucks momentum, doesnt wall much, n shouldnt rise.
 
Gastrodon is for from being the only passive Wall: Pyroak, Toxapex, Chansey, Slowbro, Hippowdon and a large amount of other defensive Mon ranked higher than Gastrodon are very passive as well. What Gastrodon is lacking too is moves to support his team, but again he isn't the only one. When I say that Gastrodon is a fairly good answer to Rain Team, I wanted to say that he's very useful against most Swift Swim sweeper, but I never said that he can just win against a Rain Team alone, sinc Ferro is fairly common among these team. Gastrodon worths a moveslot since he is an effective answer against several sweepers already mentionned, those are numberous enough and thus Gastrodon easely deserves a rise in my opinion.
 
Gastrodon is for from being the only passive Wall: Pyroak, Toxapex, Chansey, Slowbro, Hippowdon and a large amount of other defensive Mon ranked higher than Gastrodon are very passive as well. What Gastrodon is lacking too is moves to support his team, but again he isn't the only one. When I say that Gastrodon is a fairly good answer to Rain Team, I wanted to say that he's very useful against most Swift Swim sweeper, but I never said that he can just win against a Rain Team alone, sinc Ferro is fairly common among these team. Gastrodon worths a moveslot since he is an effective answer against several sweepers already mentionned, those are numberous enough and thus Gastrodon easely deserves a rise in my opinion.
gastrodon must choose whether it wants to wall kingdra/peli or megapert on rain teams; it can't do both. furthermore, if somebody brings ludicolo, gastro effectively becomes useless. the mons above gastro are less passive, bulkier, and have more utility options. slowbro has regenerator, which allows it to pivot better as it doesn't sink momentum by constantly clicking its recovery move. it's higher special attack and better coverage options also make it less passive, as does CM. Pyroaks high BP stabs (think fire blast, wood hammer, flare blitz) allow it to hit much harder than gastro. it also has access to SR which gastro desperately wants. hippo is bulkier, can set up sand, can set up rocks, and can phaze which prevents it from being set up bait. chansey meanwhile is a stall-specific mon which is about 618383 times bulkier than gastro and has about 248393 times as many good utility options to support its team, such as wish and SR. pex can 1. set tspikes and 2. has regenerator, making it a t least moderately less passive than gastro. it's also much bulkier and immune to toxic, meaning it's much harder to wear down.

gastro is meh. don't rise it.
 

snake

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gastrodon must choose whether it wants to wall kingdra/peli or megapert on rain teams; it can't do both. furthermore, if somebody brings ludicolo, gastro effectively becomes useless. the mons above gastro are less passive, bulkier, and have more utility options. slowbro has regenerator, which allows it to pivot better as it doesn't sink momentum by constantly clicking its recovery move. it's higher special attack and better coverage options also make it less passive, as does CM. Pyroaks high BP stabs (think fire blast, wood hammer, flare blitz) allow it to hit much harder than gastro. it also has access to SR which gastro desperately wants. hippo is bulkier, can set up sand, can set up rocks, and can phaze which prevents it from
being set up bait. chansey meanwhile is a stall-specific mon which is about 618383 times bulkier than gastro and has about 248393 times as many good utility options to support its team, such as wish and SR. pex can 1. set tspikes and 2. has regenerator, making it a t least moderately less passive than gastro. it's also much bulkier and immune to toxic, meaning it's much harder to wear down.
gastro is meh. don't rise it.
Pyroak just never run those moves. Pyroak runs a defensive set with Lava Plume, Giga Drain, and/or Earth Power as its offensive moves. Fire Blast, Flare Blitz, and Wood Hammer just don't play to Pyroak's advantages. Just wanted to point this out before there are any misconceptions.
 
Even at +1 gastro is such a momentum sink it's just not worth a teamslot. Even against a frail, offensive team structure such as rain, +1 gastro isn't a threat whatsoever. First off, virtually no gastro's run ice beam; the set should almost always be toxic/scald/recover/ground STAB. Earth power and EQ both see usage. Even at +1, Gastro does jack shit to ferro, which is a staple on rain this generation. +1 Scald does like 13% and +1 EP does like 26%. Meanwhile, even if Ferro gets burned, this still happens : 0 Atk burned Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 228-270 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Gastro sucks momentum, doesnt wall much, n shouldnt rise.
Name me one Pokmon moveset which doesn't get checked in this metagame. Its hard, right? You could probably argue Tail Glow Aurumoth but that can be risky. Yeah, Gastrodon gets checked by Ferro, I never said it didn't. But it does chip down Ferro every time Ferro comes in to check gastro, he comes in, take damage, gastro switches out. Ferro wins the 1v1 but is put in a place of less momentum because it can't afford to overpredict and get played by a fuckin gastrodon. What I'm trying to get to is that every set is checked but that shouldn't affect a Pokemon's viability, rather in defensive terms, how many sets it can check, and with Gastrodon, theres a lot.
 
Name me one Pokmon moveset which doesn't get checked in this metagame. Its hard, right? You could probably argue Tail Glow Aurumoth but that can be risky. Yeah, Gastrodon gets checked by Ferro, I never said it didn't. But it does chip down Ferro every time Ferro comes in to check gastro, he comes in, take damage, gastro switches out. Ferro wins the 1v1 but is put in a place of less momentum because it can't afford to overpredict and get played by a fuckin gastrodon. What I'm trying to get to is that every set is checked but that shouldn't affect a Pokemon's viability, rather in defensive terms, how many sets it can check, and with Gastrodon, theres a lot.
gastro isn't just checked by everything; it straight up loses to anything it doesn't have a type advantage over, and even then sometimes it won't win (see: bloomdoom tran). every pokémon does have checks yes yes yes. not disputing that. however, virtually any pokémon can switch in to gastro with little fear and then heavily damage it. ferrothorn is a great example of pokémon which does not in fact lose momentum by switching into gastro; it loses pretty much 0 health and can then proceed to kill gastro, heal up w leech seed, or set hazards. the player who loses momentum is the gastro user who either must sack their supposed wall or concede hazards. plus, if hazards are up, gastro is no longer able to switch in to literally anything.

edit: ferro cannot get played by gastro no matter what. u cannot overpredict bc it's so passive. idek what "get played by" means in a pokémon sense, but that's not what gastro does to ferro lmao.
 
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