Gen 3 Salamence Who?

[Calook13]

https://pokepast.es/5ab7c50127280dbe

This team got me to about 1500 elo, having a record of 39-11 so far.

This looks like a very weird team off the bat, but I promise there is some merit to Dragonite over Salamence. The main purpose of this team is a steady-paced offense team with hard hitters and a good defensive core. I find that most games revolve around one or two crucial walls on the opponent's side which you almost always win if you break and lose if you can't.

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Lead Metagross is always going to be solid, and I find it works well here. Lead mixed tar might be better but I'm still playing around with it. CB Metagross brings destructive pressure while also providing a great defensive backbone with its steel typing. CB Metagross also works well with Agility+BP Zapdos to really devastate the opponent and force them to bring in a wall you can start chipping at. Metagross is also my main answer to Blissey, either to force it out or just KO it outright. The only problem is, CB Metagross hates getting Thunder Waved by Blissey. The solution lies here:

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 48 HP / 232 SpA / 184 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Salamence is known for its fantastic offensive capabilities and its devastating flagship MixedMence set, which means people tend to sleep on its defensive typing potential. Dragonite can be a menace in the right hands. First and foremost, Dragon/Flying synergizes very well with Metagross, as they cover each other's weaknesses. A very common way to slow down offense teams is with status like toxic chip and paralysis, and Dragonite makes for a great solution. When most people see Dragonite, they immediately think of Dragon Dance and switch to a wall. Dragonite loves slow walls, however, as it allows for often times a completely free heal bell and sometimes a free attack from a respectable 294 Special Attack stat (Fire Blast usually 2HKOs Skarmory even after protect). Dragonite also has very good coverage, with BoltBeam + Fire Blast hitting literally every pokemon at least neutrally and a lot of notable ones super effectively. This set is EV'd to live an Ice Beam from offensive Suicune and Starmie and usually lives a Rock Slide from CB Mence. Dragonite is very difficult to use but the reward can be worth it.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Hydro Pump

Neither Dragonite nor Metagross appreciate repeated Thunderbolts, so I threw on a standard defensive Swampert. Swampert will never cease to be a great wall in OU and actually synergizes really well with Dragonite, as it 4x resists HP Grass. Opposing Zapdos will have trouble hitting this pair, as HP Ice + Tbolt doesn't hit Swampert well and HP Grass + Tbolt struggles into Dragonite, both of whom carry an Ice Beam which Zapdos would rather not take. Swampert also walls opposing Metagross extremely well, often forcing it to explode. A good way to wear Swampert down is Toxic, which Dragonite can help fix. Not much to say about Swampert, it's just fantastic.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Agility
- Baton Pass

Agility+BP Zapdos fits well on this team. Modest Zapdos is an absolute monster offensively, and is solid defensively too. Agility Passing to CB Metagross can make a few people throw their phones into the nearest lake, and a Modest Zapdos at +2 is always inherently good as a mid game wallbreaker and late game cleaner. Zapdos really hates being TWaved by other Zapdos, which gives Dragonite further merit. Zapdos can also pass to Tar or Typhlosion for more wallbreaking potential. I've forgotten what Zapdos is EV'd to outspeed or live but it's a good spread and it works well for me.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Punch

This team felt too slow without sand, so in comes the undisputed king of ADV OU. Normally people lead with Mixed Tar, and I used to until I tried lead Meta and just liked it better, both are great though. I really like this Tyranitar set, and I use it on almost every team I have. Rock Slide is uncommon on Mixed Tar but I really love it to cover a lot of options like Gengar, Blissey, and incoming Aerodactyl switches, things that Ice Beam just don't hit as hard. Swampert loves to come in on Rock Slide, expecting a physical set, and gets deleted by HP Grass. Most Tars will run Hasty but I just found Mild to be more consistent with damage output. I would run Leftovers since I already have Heal Bell Dragonite but Tyranitar hates status so much and I didn't want to further burden Dragonite with more pokemon to be responsible for, plus, I liked having a Lum Berry mon on the team for Smeargle, Jynx, and hypnosis variants of Milotic. Focus Punch hits Blissey like a small planet after forcing it to heal with Rock Slide+Lum Berry.

Typhlosion @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Another niche UUBL pick. Almost everybody likes Charizard instead of Typhlosion in this slot, since it's immune to spikes and has the exact same stats, but I only have one ice resist and wanted a second one. Typhlosion can be absolutely ruthless, especially once in Blaze range or at +2 from BP Zapdos. Another merit that Typhlosion gets over Charizard is Thunder Punch, which can be super helpful. Focus Punch does about 50-60% to Blissey, helping chip it down further. Almost nothing in OU wants to take a Blaze-boosted Fire Blast from Typhlosion, making it super spammable. Typhlosion works well as an early game chipper and a mid-late game cleaner.


This team really, REALLY struggles with Snorlax. Like, a LOT. Some support against Snorlax would be appreciated.

All in all, this team is really weird but also a lot of fun and works surprisingly well. If you have any suggestions on how to improve this team, I would love to hear it as I feel that every team can always be improved, and since this is my first real working team that I spent more than 5 minutes building, there's probably a few holes. Thanks!

 

[Calook13]

Just coming back to this - forgot to mention I really want to put Roar on Swampert because as it stands I don't have phasing but I'm not sure which move to replace

 

[Shedinja-43152]

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 48 HP / 232 SpA / 184 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

I don't even know Dragonite learns Heal Bell, it's funny!
Since it's a gen3 tier, I would replace Heal Bell for Outrage, but Heal Bell seems to be inesperated.

 

[vapicuno]

Hello. I think you should be aware that by using two non-OU Pokemon you are opening yourself to criticism on these two fronts. If you want to use them because they're fun and want to keep them, you should probably mention that, otherwise, I will make my critique agnostic to that.

First, you talk about the defensive properties of Dragonite. But Salamence has Intimidate and higher speed, which is are important defensive properties as well. Heal Bell is only necessary where you foresee something getting statused. This would most likely be Swampert getting Toxic'ed by Skarmory or Will-O-Wisped by Gengar. However, if you had the help of Salamence's Intimidate, you would be able to survive well with a more offensive Swampert set, reducing your need for Heal Bell. You also talk about Heal Bell removing paralysis from Metagross, but with offensive Swampert + Metagross, you can potentially pivot into both Thunder Wave and Toxic Blissey. If you sequence the game right, Blissey won't even be able to come in without pressure.

Second, there is very little reason to use Typhlosion over Charizard or even Blaziken. Ice resists aren't important at all compared to the ability to pivot into Metagross easily, that Charizard can do, for example.

If you don't want to change the Dragonite, at least change the Typhlosion.

Regardless of whether you keep those, my recommendation would be to lead with Tyranitar and change the Metagross to Agility + Rock Slide. I'd probably drop Agility on Zapdos in favour of Toxic + Protect to maintain momentum. In practice, it's probably too difficult to pull off an Agility Pass.

It would probably also help you to read my offense teambuilding guide in my signature. A mindset change away from defensive utility in an offensive team is something that might benefit you. Especially check out the step-by-step part in that guide to see how one can use Heal Bell effectively in an offensive team or speed pass.

 

[Calook13]

I don't even know Dragonite learns Heal Bell, it's funny!
Since it's a gen3 tier, I would replace Heal Bell for Outrage, but Heal Bell seems to be inesperated.

Unfortunately, Outrage is really bad in Gen 3.

 

[Calook13]

Hello. I think you should be aware that by using two non-OU Pokemon you are opening yourself to criticism on these two fronts. If you want to use them because they're fun and want to keep them, you should probably mention that, otherwise, I will make my critique agnostic to that.

First, you talk about the defensive properties of Dragonite. But Salamence has Intimidate and higher speed, which is are important defensive properties as well. Heal Bell is only necessary where you foresee something getting statused. This would most likely be Swampert getting Toxic'ed by Skarmory or Will-O-Wisped by Gengar. However, if you had the help of Salamence's Intimidate, you would be able to survive well with a more offensive Swampert set, reducing your need for Heal Bell. You also talk about Heal Bell removing paralysis from Metagross, but with offensive Swampert + Metagross, you can potentially pivot into both Thunder Wave and Toxic Blissey. If you sequence the game right, Blissey won't even be able to come in without pressure.

Second, there is very little reason to use Typhlosion over Charizard or even Blaziken. Ice resists aren't important at all compared to the ability to pivot into Metagross easily, that Charizard can do, for example.

If you don't want to change the Dragonite, at least change the Typhlosion.

Regardless of whether you keep those, my recommendation would be to lead with Tyranitar and change the Metagross to Agility + Rock Slide. I'd probably drop Agility on Zapdos in favour of Toxic + Protect to maintain momentum. In practice, it's probably too difficult to pull off an Agility Pass.

It would probably also help you to read my offense teambuilding guide in my signature. A mindset change away from defensive utility in an offensive team is something that might benefit you. Especially check out the step-by-step part in that guide to see how one can use Heal Bell effectively in an offensive team or speed pass.

I do still want to use Dragonite mostly because it's fun. But I did tweak the Metagross, Zapdos, and Typhlosion (now Charizard). I gave the Metagross Agility, Rock Slide, Meteor Mash, and Earthquake, and gave Zapdos Roar and Protect over Agility Pass. The team does seem to be much more consistent. Thanks a lot!

 

[Shedinja-43152]

Unfortunately, Outrage is really bad in Gen 3.

You are already running a Special Dragonite, Outrage is a special move in gen3. And it has stab.

 

[Calook13]

You are already running a Special Dragonite, Outrage is a special move in gen3. And it has stab.

Outrage is only 90 base power, locks you in for 2-3 turns without giving you a chance to switch, and confuses you when you're done. Dragon Claw is only 10 BP less and lacks such drawbacks. If I wanted to use a dragon move on this Dragonite I would just run Dragon Claw.

 

[Shedinja-43152]

Outrage is only 90 base power, locks you in for 2-3 turns without giving you a chance to switch, and confuses you when you're done. Dragon Claw is only 10 BP less and lacks such drawbacks. If I wanted to use a dragon move on this Dragonite I would just run Dragon Claw.

Ohh you are absolutelly right! I forgot Outrage had so few damage on gen3, I was thinking it was 120 BP

 

[Calook13]

Ohh you are absolutelly right! I forgot Outrage had so few damage on gen3, I was thinking it was 120 BP

It's alright. Gen 3 is wack sometimes :P