SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

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Pikachu315111

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When GF add new forms to later games, they also add means of accessing those forms in the later games that are not available in the older games too. These "means of accessing" (Orbs, Gracidea Flower, the appliances, etc) justify the existence of new forms in the Pokemon World like this for example: Shaymin-S does exist in DP canon, it's just that the means of getting it (Gracidea Flower) isn't obtainable because you are not given one OR the Primals does exist in RSE canon, you just don't/ can't give them the Orbs to reverse. Alolan form is NOT like this in the sense that "levelling up in Alola" is sth that can already be done in SM so back to the Ekans example, you can already level up a regular Ekans in Alola to evolve so for all purpose, it should evolve into an Alolan Arbok if an Alolan Arbok does exist in the PKM World. Now, you could say that GF will introduce sth like an item that when held by regular Ekans, it will evolve into an Alolan Arbok when levelled up in Alola but that mechanics is sth we are inventing now to accommodate Alolan form while my original lists were compiled using only what we already knew of Alolan form.
Ah, now I see what you're talking about. You're sticking to the rule that, generally, if GF adds a new evolution or form they try to make a new way the Pokemon evolved/access the form to explain why it wasn't in the previous games. Still, that brings up a few issues:

1. First off, either GF sometimes drops the ball on this or they ignore it completely. Lickitung could learn Rollout in Gen I via TM, Swinub has been able to learn Ancient Power since Gen II via breeding, and Keldeo didn't change forms in BW when it knew Secret Sword.
2. Once again, going by your logic, there should be no new Alolan Forms than since they didn't exist in the original SM. So, for example, if they made an Alolan Arbok only than it means Ekans would only be able to evolve into it in USUM while normal SM it would only evolve into normal Arbok, so what? Actually, wait, going by your logic, there can be new Alolan Pokemon but ONLY for the evolved stages. As you said, the basic Pokemon can't change without causing a discrepancy between versions, BUT they could introduce something like the Alolan Stone than they could have Pokemon who previously didn't have Alolan forms now able to. The Alolan Stone isn't in SM thus why Ekans could now evolve into Alolan Arbok in USUM but not SM.

Just curious, are you laughing at my conclusion there's no point to add in Hawaiian diphthongs Unown or my suggestion to add Punctuation Unown?

Just saying, but isn't this wishlisting? While a fair assumption, nothing we have so far suggests we're actually going to get any new Alolan Forms.
Well the listing of Pokemon someone would like to see become to Alola would be on the edge of wishlisting (which is why we stopped doing it in the previous USUM Direct thread). However I don't think there's a problem just talking about the mechanics concerning Alolan Forms/Regional Variants and how would GF handle implementing new ones/the potential future use of it.
 
It's worth mentioning that there actually are unobtainable pokes in gen 7.

You cannot obtain in any way a legit gen 7 non alolan Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, as their base non-alolan form will always evolve in the alolan version, while you can obtain legit non-alolan gen 7 Ninetales, Sandslash, Muk, Raticate, Persian by trading a non alolan and breeding it. (am i forgetting something?)

Thus, in the case of "Alolan Arbok", if they decided that Ekans evolves in Alolan Arbok, non-Alolan gen 7 Arbok would never be obtainable.

If they want to make such pokes obtainable in USUM, which is a realistic expectation as in similar fashion ORAS made literally every poke available in gen 6, some kind of "Alolan switch" must be introduced somewhere.
 
It's worth mentioning that there actually are unobtainable pokes in gen 7.

You cannot obtain in any way a legit gen 7 non alolan Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, as their base non-alolan form will always evolve in the alolan version, while you can obtain legit non-alolan gen 7 Ninetales, Sandslash, Muk, Raticate, Persian by trading a non alolan and breeding it. (am i forgetting something?)

Thus, in the case of "Alolan Arbok", if they decided that Ekans evolves in Alolan Arbok, non-Alolan gen 7 Arbok would never be obtainable.

If they want to make such pokes obtainable in USUM, which is a realistic expectation as in similar fashion ORAS made literally every poke available in gen 6, some kind of "Alolan switch" must be introduced somewhere.
Your example does not work well because in SM, Ekans evolves into regular Arbok, so in that case, it would be obtainable. (Otherwise, my Arbok would be illegal)

Right now it's pointless to think on how they are going to tackle Alolan Formes outside of Alola as we are still going to be in Alola.
 
I do understand my example wasn't perfect but I'm quite sure you got what I meant ;)

More than "tackle Alola forms outside of Alola" I was referring to "making non-alolan forms available in Alola" which currently is not possible outside of owning gen 6 games... well even though all non-alolan versions of the pokes outside maybe Ninetales are awful outside of PU/RU, I guess.

If memory doesn't fail me, outside of mythical and cover leges, it's been a common trend in last gens, EXPECIALLY with ORAS, to make literally every competitively usable poke available to someone who only owns games of that gen with the 2nd batch of titles.
I do not expect USUM to be of any less, and while I don't expect it, i still hope that we get a post-game featuring all competitively usable legendary in a way or another available, possibly in same way ORAS did since they literally got into ORAS dimension via what basically were ultrarifts.
*insert random rumbling about having had to rerun a borrowed OR cart to get 100% legit versions of all leges to use*

That would also be necessary if, as I also expect, USUM competitive season will allow entire pokedex + megas in same fashion as 2016 VGC (possibly minus mythicals if they learned from that PrimalGroundonShaped disaster) thus "new" players would need to be able to collect everything without the need to buy previous gen games AND pokebank.
 
I do understand my example wasn't perfect but I'm quite sure you got what I meant ;)

More than "tackle Alola forms outside of Alola" I was referring to "making non-alolan forms available in Alola" which currently is not possible outside of owning gen 6 games... well even though all non-alolan versions of the pokes outside maybe Ninetales are awful outside of PU/RU, I guess.

If memory doesn't fail me, outside of mythical and cover leges, it's been a common trend in last gens, EXPECIALLY with ORAS, to make literally every competitively usable poke available to someone who only owns games of that gen with the 2nd batch of titles.
I do not expect USUM to be of any less, and while I don't expect it, i still hope that we get a post-game featuring all competitively usable legendary in a way or another available, possibly in same way ORAS did since they literally got into ORAS dimension via what basically were ultrarifts.
*insert random rumbling about having had to rerun a borrowed OR cart to get 100% legit versions of all leges to use*

That would also be necessary if, as I also expect, USUM competitive season will allow entire pokedex + megas in same fashion as 2016 VGC (possibly minus mythicals if they learned from that PrimalGroundonShaped disaster) thus "new" players would need to be able to collect everything without the need to buy previous gen games AND pokebank.
Don't get confused between Mythical and legends. The restricted Pokémon are not Mythical. Mythical are fully banned from VGC. I'm honestly expecting National Dex + Megas + Alolan Clover for next year. That means ORAS legends won't be used. But for that to be true, they have to add the National Dex in-game.
 
Ah, now I see what you're talking about. You're sticking to the rule that, generally, if GF adds a new evolution or form they try to make a new way the Pokemon evolved/access the form to explain why it wasn't in the previous games. Still, that brings up a few issues:

1. First off, either GF sometimes drops the ball on this or they ignore it completely. Lickitung could learn Rollout in Gen I via TM, Swinub has been able to learn Ancient Power since Gen II via breeding, and Keldeo didn't change forms in BW when it knew Secret Sword.

Swinub/Piloswine and Lickitung were introduced 2, 3 gens before their evolutions respectively so while it is indeed an oversight, I think GF can be forgiven for not planning 10+ years ahead. SM and USUM are same gen and within like 1 year of each other. The Keldeo example, however, can be justified (get it?) that Secret Sword isn't what transforms Keldeo; it's the circumstance of learning the move that does the transformation.

2. Once again, going by your logic, there should be no new Alolan Forms than since they didn't exist in the original SM. So, for example, if they made an Alolan Arbok only than it means Ekans would only be able to evolve into it in USUM while normal SM it would only evolve into normal Arbok, so what? Actually, wait, going by your logic, there can be new Alolan Pokemon but ONLY for the evolved stages. As you said, the basic Pokemon can't change without causing a discrepancy between versions, BUT they could introduce something like the Alolan Stone than they could have Pokemon who previously didn't have Alolan forms now able to. The Alolan Stone isn't in SM thus why Ekans could now evolve into Alolan Arbok in USUM but not SM.

By my logic, Alolan forms for all Pokemon I listed can exist but they must exist similarly to the Golem, Ninetales, Dugtrio, Sandslash, Persian, Muk, Raticate lines a.k.a the entire evolution line must have Alolan forms. This way, their existence is justified in the same manner like the Gracidea Flower, Orbs examples we discussed earlier. Of course, I agree with you that GF can introduce new mechanics like Alolan Stone to solve the issue with my logic.

Just curious, are you laughing at my conclusion there's no point to add in Hawaiian diphthongs Unown or my suggestion to add Punctuation Unown?

I laughed at the thought of having more Unown. That's all.
It's worth mentioning that there actually are unobtainable pokes in gen 7.

You cannot obtain in any way a legit gen 7 non alolan Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, as their base non-alolan form will always evolve in the alolan version, while you can obtain legit non-alolan gen 7 Ninetales, Sandslash, Muk, Raticate, Persian by trading a non alolan and breeding it. (am i forgetting something?)

Thus, in the case of "Alolan Arbok", if they decided that Ekans evolves in Alolan Arbok, non-Alolan gen 7 Arbok would never be obtainable.

If they want to make such pokes obtainable in USUM, which is a realistic expectation as in similar fashion ORAS made literally every poke available in gen 6, some kind of "Alolan switch" must be introduced somewhere.
They can do in-game trades of those Pokemon like the Porygon/ Eevee in SM or the ferris wheel situation back in BW2.
 
While nothing outright suggests we're going to get new Alola forms, isn't it fair to assume Gamefreak anticipates fan expectations and generally play into fan service? I mean, if anyone digs up the old pre-release ORAS thread a number of posters here (even really smart ones) were adamant that there was NO WAY we were getting any more megas beyond what we got in XY and well… We did get more. People were even saying we would never get gen 3 remakes.

See?

I know there's a widespread attitude that Gamefreak doesn't try or put in effort anymore they try to rekindle fan interest every generation. I highly doubt we'll get sequels with nothing added besides plot differences & 3 forme changes.
 
Omg that Kommo-o Z move...
Come back from a trip and this is what I find.
I initially wanted to say "it's going to be OP/broken/UBERs" and that it may be on Mega Mence or better.
But from looking at some of the calcs, and the fact that his speed is still not that great at +1, I'm going to I don't think he'll be any of the aforementioned.
But his viability clearly rose for sure.

Side note: would've been nice if this guy was better than something like mega mence just because I hate that croissant looking thing.
 

Karxrida

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Expecting new Alolan Formes in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon isn't entirely unreasonable considering we got new Megas in ORAS. I just wouldn't get your hopes up since they aren't GF's big marketing thing like Z-Moves are.

Besides, they'll probably only be given to more Gen I Pokémon.
 
Don't get confused between Mythical and legends. The restricted Pokémon are not Mythical. Mythical are fully banned from VGC. I'm honestly expecting National Dex + Megas + Alolan Clover for next year. That means ORAS legends won't be used. But for that to be true, they have to add the National Dex in-game.
Well I definitely didn't use precise wording, but we know what horrible flop it was to allow Primal Groudon and his friends in VGC. Wasn't Primal Groudon in literally every team in top 12 bary one?

As for the other part, I more or less expect the same in 2018 VGC, entire Pokedex, Megas, Z crystals, no Mythicals and "cover leges" (better wording?), with obvious condition of the pokes either caught or bred in Gen 7 games (which should come toghether with Tutors returning).
As for non cover legendaries (Birds, Dogs, Genies, Spirits, Lati, Swordspokes, Regis, and the new additions of Tapus and UBs) that would mean that if there's another "invasion of other dimension pokes" like on ORAS, they'd obviously need to be caught in gen 7, else that would mean that if only gen 7 pokes are allowed, all legendaries outside of Tapus and UBs would be cut off the format.


Random moderately related: I'm wondering if Gen 2 pokes will also get the 3x31+guaranteed HA treatment.
Random moderately related2: Imagine if Tapus caught in USUM have their HA instead making them essentially useless

GF will just do what they want anyway.
Well that's the end of all things anyway, whatever we can speculate it's their game and it's probably already ready to ship at this point no matter what the fanbase can say.
 
I wasn't necessarily doubting that they'll happen - I hope they will and I think they will - just that we don't really have anything to go on. At least, nothing more than before USUM was even announced.
 
Well I definitely didn't use precise wording, but we know what horrible flop it was to allow Primal Groudon and his friends in VGC. Wasn't Primal Groudon in literally every team in top 12 bary one?

As for the other part, I more or less expect the same in 2018 VGC, entire Pokedex, Megas, Z crystals, no Mythicals and "cover leges" (better wording?), with obvious condition of the pokes either caught or bred in Gen 7 games (which should come toghether with Tutors returning).
As for non cover legendaries (Birds, Dogs, Genies, Spirits, Lati, Swordspokes, Regis, and the new additions of Tapus and UBs) that would mean that if there's another "invasion of other dimension pokes" like on ORAS, they'd obviously need to be caught in gen 7, else that would mean that if only gen 7 pokes are allowed, all legendaries outside of Tapus and UBs would be cut off the format.


Random moderately related: I'm wondering if Gen 2 pokes will also get the 3x31+guaranteed HA treatment.
Random moderately related2: Imagine if Tapus caught in USUM have their HA instead making them essentially useless


Well that's the end of all things anyway, whatever we can speculate it's their game and it's probably already ready to ship at this point no matter what the fanbase can say.
They only allowed restricted Pokémon twice. It won't happen again for a few years.

Also, I really believe gen 2 Pokémon coming from the VC will receive the same treatment of HA+3 31 IVs
 
Seeing how it went with Gen 6, I doubt they will ever allow restricted pokes again.
I believe it's a accepted opinion that it was a huge failure and the most boring meta that ever hit VGC.
 
It wasn't so bad in 2010 when they did it, was it?

I think the real problem was that gen 6 itself introduced a ton of new legendaries like Xern, the primals and Mega Ray that were just obviously in a different league to all of the other cover legends, and GF underestimated just how big a problem that was. If they can find a way to make a restricted mons meta less centralised (realistically that means either making enough new legendaries on the same power level that there's meaningful choice at the top, introducing good but balanced mons that also counter some of those four, or banning those four specific Pokemon), I can see them trying it again -- albeit not for a good while.

That said, I'm only loosely familiar with the 2016 meta, so maybe there were more problems than the Big Six being everywhere.
 
The issue with 2016 VGC meta has had a lot to do with the huge powercreep of mega evos and the new primals. in 2010, the powercreep wasnt as big, and legendaryes while stronger weren't Xerneas or Primal-Groudon level broke.
It's kind of obvious that when a poke (or 3 of them) has a option that that not only buffs his stats by 100+, buffs his stab and makes nearly everything that's supereffective against it *FAIL*, the meta will inevitably revolve around it.

It feels they learned the lesson in gen 7, with Lunala/Solgaleo/Necrozma nowhere as broken, but still, i'd rather them to keep cover leges out of competitive scene either ways.
Z-crystals on their own give valid ways to deal with mega evos and pseudolegendaryes, even uber-tier ones like Metagross, without the need to feature cover leges to have a varied competitive environment.
(though, nobody knows if suddently USUM will present another Primal Groudon level atrocity, I surely hope not :X )
 
The issue with 2016 VGC meta has had a lot to do with the huge powercreep of mega evos and the new primals. in 2010, the powercreep wasnt as big, and legendaryes while stronger weren't Xerneas or Primal-Groudon level broke.
It's kind of obvious that when a poke (or 3 of them) has a option that that not only buffs his stats by 100+, buffs his stab and makes nearly everything that's supereffective against it *FAIL*, the meta will inevitably revolve around it.

It feels they learned the lesson in gen 7, with Lunala/Solgaleo/Necrozma nowhere as broken, but still, i'd rather them to keep cover leges out of competitive scene either ways.
Z-crystals on their own give valid ways to deal with mega evos and pseudolegendaryes, even uber-tier ones like Metagross, without the need to feature cover leges to have a varied competitive environment.
(though, nobody knows if suddently USUM will present another Primal Groudon level atrocity, I surely hope not :X )

Kommo-o's Z move is the atrocity you're fearing if USUM continues in the same fashion, VGC will become centered around a selection of unique Z moves which are entirely over powered especially as protect and z protect can't stop Z moves. So unless Kommo-o is the only broken Z mon (along with Mew in some cases) but my issue is the protect has been nerfed as a move with z moves are dangerously looking like a centralising force in both vgc for next year and competitive play in general.

Thats just my opinion tho, feel free to tear it apart :)
 
Eh, it's probably not as entirely busted as it seems though. It is a high powered spread move, yes, but its damage will be lowered by 25% if your opponents have both Pokemon out due to it being a spread move. Additionally Wide Guard is likely to work similarly to protect, and will likely severely weaken it further if your opponent uses it. Then you have Fairies being immune to dragon, resistant to fighting, and the fact that the typing does have a 4x super effective STAB on Kommo-o. It will definitely increase its viability, but i think Soulblaze Kommo-o seems more like a "build around" kind of thing and that would likely keep it from infesting the meta.

But that is neither here nor there, since this is supposed to be mostly competitive free. One thing I hadn't commented on is the Photo club booth! Now we that we have snapchat in Pokemon... i am going to take all the creepy Espurr photos i can think of.
 

DHR-107

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Locking this up for the time being until we get more news as discussion has petered off enough. Hopefully we will get more before the Corocoro leaks in approximately two weeks.

I presume the above is some random Hiker joke thing, we have no context with which to give it.
 

Codraroll

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It's that time of the month again. CoroCoro tends to leak around the 11th, give or take a couple of days, which means we maybe should have unlocked this thread yesterday. But oh well, nothing has leaked yet, so we're still not late.

The usual rules, terms, and conditions for discussion apply. Beware of fake leaks. The upcoming CoroCoro will be one of only three issues left until the games release, which means we should expect some good bits of material to discuss (sooner or later, TPC will have to build hype for the games, so now would be the ideal time to start releasing the goodies). Of course, every forger, faker, grifter, and hoaxer on the Internet knows this, so the conditions are ripe for false news to spread. If you find credible-looking scans that aren't widely reported, Google around before posting them here. And until something reliable is reported, please refrain from speculating too wildly.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to learn something, anything at all... more about USUM!
 
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