Ah, now I see what you're talking about. You're sticking to the rule that, generally, if GF adds a new evolution or form they try to make a new way the Pokemon evolved/access the form to explain why it wasn't in the previous games. Still, that brings up a few issues:When GF add new forms to later games, they also add means of accessing those forms in the later games that are not available in the older games too. These "means of accessing" (Orbs, Gracidea Flower, the appliances, etc) justify the existence of new forms in the Pokemon World like this for example: Shaymin-S does exist in DP canon, it's just that the means of getting it (Gracidea Flower) isn't obtainable because you are not given one OR the Primals does exist in RSE canon, you just don't/ can't give them the Orbs to reverse. Alolan form is NOT like this in the sense that "levelling up in Alola" is sth that can already be done in SM so back to the Ekans example, you can already level up a regular Ekans in Alola to evolve so for all purpose, it should evolve into an Alolan Arbok if an Alolan Arbok does exist in the PKM World. Now, you could say that GF will introduce sth like an item that when held by regular Ekans, it will evolve into an Alolan Arbok when levelled up in Alola but that mechanics is sth we are inventing now to accommodate Alolan form while my original lists were compiled using only what we already knew of Alolan form.
Just curious, are you laughing at my conclusion there's no point to add in Hawaiian diphthongs Unown or my suggestion to add Punctuation Unown?LMAO
Well the listing of Pokemon someone would like to see become to Alola would be on the edge of wishlisting (which is why we stopped doing it in the previous USUM Direct thread). However I don't think there's a problem just talking about the mechanics concerning Alolan Forms/Regional Variants and how would GF handle implementing new ones/the potential future use of it.Just saying, but isn't this wishlisting? While a fair assumption, nothing we have so far suggests we're actually going to get any new Alolan Forms.
Your example does not work well because in SM, Ekans evolves into regular Arbok, so in that case, it would be obtainable. (Otherwise, my Arbok would be illegal)It's worth mentioning that there actually are unobtainable pokes in gen 7.
You cannot obtain in any way a legit gen 7 non alolan Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, as their base non-alolan form will always evolve in the alolan version, while you can obtain legit non-alolan gen 7 Ninetales, Sandslash, Muk, Raticate, Persian by trading a non alolan and breeding it. (am i forgetting something?)
Thus, in the case of "Alolan Arbok", if they decided that Ekans evolves in Alolan Arbok, non-Alolan gen 7 Arbok would never be obtainable.
If they want to make such pokes obtainable in USUM, which is a realistic expectation as in similar fashion ORAS made literally every poke available in gen 6, some kind of "Alolan switch" must be introduced somewhere.
Don't get confused between Mythical and legends. The restricted Pokémon are not Mythical. Mythical are fully banned from VGC. I'm honestly expecting National Dex + Megas + Alolan Clover for next year. That means ORAS legends won't be used. But for that to be true, they have to add the National Dex in-game.I do understand my example wasn't perfect but I'm quite sure you got what I meant ;)
More than "tackle Alola forms outside of Alola" I was referring to "making non-alolan forms available in Alola" which currently is not possible outside of owning gen 6 games... well even though all non-alolan versions of the pokes outside maybe Ninetales are awful outside of PU/RU, I guess.
If memory doesn't fail me, outside of mythical and cover leges, it's been a common trend in last gens, EXPECIALLY with ORAS, to make literally every competitively usable poke available to someone who only owns games of that gen with the 2nd batch of titles.
I do not expect USUM to be of any less, and while I don't expect it, i still hope that we get a post-game featuring all competitively usable legendary in a way or another available, possibly in same way ORAS did since they literally got into ORAS dimension via what basically were ultrarifts.
*insert random rumbling about having had to rerun a borrowed OR cart to get 100% legit versions of all leges to use*
That would also be necessary if, as I also expect, USUM competitive season will allow entire pokedex + megas in same fashion as 2016 VGC (possibly minus mythicals if they learned from that PrimalGroundonShaped disaster) thus "new" players would need to be able to collect everything without the need to buy previous gen games AND pokebank.
Ah, now I see what you're talking about. You're sticking to the rule that, generally, if GF adds a new evolution or form they try to make a new way the Pokemon evolved/access the form to explain why it wasn't in the previous games. Still, that brings up a few issues:
1. First off, either GF sometimes drops the ball on this or they ignore it completely. Lickitung could learn Rollout in Gen I via TM, Swinub has been able to learn Ancient Power since Gen II via breeding, and Keldeo didn't change forms in BW when it knew Secret Sword.
Swinub/Piloswine and Lickitung were introduced 2, 3 gens before their evolutions respectively so while it is indeed an oversight, I think GF can be forgiven for not planning 10+ years ahead. SM and USUM are same gen and within like 1 year of each other. The Keldeo example, however, can be justified (get it?) that Secret Sword isn't what transforms Keldeo; it's the circumstance of learning the move that does the transformation.
2. Once again, going by your logic, there should be no new Alolan Forms than since they didn't exist in the original SM. So, for example, if they made an Alolan Arbok only than it means Ekans would only be able to evolve into it in USUM while normal SM it would only evolve into normal Arbok, so what? Actually, wait, going by your logic, there can be new Alolan Pokemon but ONLY for the evolved stages. As you said, the basic Pokemon can't change without causing a discrepancy between versions, BUT they could introduce something like the Alolan Stone than they could have Pokemon who previously didn't have Alolan forms now able to. The Alolan Stone isn't in SM thus why Ekans could now evolve into Alolan Arbok in USUM but not SM.
By my logic, Alolan forms for all Pokemon I listed can exist but they must exist similarly to the Golem, Ninetales, Dugtrio, Sandslash, Persian, Muk, Raticate lines a.k.a the entire evolution line must have Alolan forms. This way, their existence is justified in the same manner like the Gracidea Flower, Orbs examples we discussed earlier. Of course, I agree with you that GF can introduce new mechanics like Alolan Stone to solve the issue with my logic.
Just curious, are you laughing at my conclusion there's no point to add in Hawaiian diphthongs Unown or my suggestion to add Punctuation Unown?
I laughed at the thought of having more Unown. That's all.
They can do in-game trades of those Pokemon like the Porygon/ Eevee in SM or the ferris wheel situation back in BW2.It's worth mentioning that there actually are unobtainable pokes in gen 7.
You cannot obtain in any way a legit gen 7 non alolan Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, as their base non-alolan form will always evolve in the alolan version, while you can obtain legit non-alolan gen 7 Ninetales, Sandslash, Muk, Raticate, Persian by trading a non alolan and breeding it. (am i forgetting something?)
Thus, in the case of "Alolan Arbok", if they decided that Ekans evolves in Alolan Arbok, non-Alolan gen 7 Arbok would never be obtainable.
If they want to make such pokes obtainable in USUM, which is a realistic expectation as in similar fashion ORAS made literally every poke available in gen 6, some kind of "Alolan switch" must be introduced somewhere.
Well I definitely didn't use precise wording, but we know what horrible flop it was to allow Primal Groudon and his friends in VGC. Wasn't Primal Groudon in literally every team in top 12 bary one?Don't get confused between Mythical and legends. The restricted Pokémon are not Mythical. Mythical are fully banned from VGC. I'm honestly expecting National Dex + Megas + Alolan Clover for next year. That means ORAS legends won't be used. But for that to be true, they have to add the National Dex in-game.
Well that's the end of all things anyway, whatever we can speculate it's their game and it's probably already ready to ship at this point no matter what the fanbase can say.GF will just do what they want anyway.
They only allowed restricted Pokémon twice. It won't happen again for a few years.Well I definitely didn't use precise wording, but we know what horrible flop it was to allow Primal Groudon and his friends in VGC. Wasn't Primal Groudon in literally every team in top 12 bary one?
As for the other part, I more or less expect the same in 2018 VGC, entire Pokedex, Megas, Z crystals, no Mythicals and "cover leges" (better wording?), with obvious condition of the pokes either caught or bred in Gen 7 games (which should come toghether with Tutors returning).
As for non cover legendaries (Birds, Dogs, Genies, Spirits, Lati, Swordspokes, Regis, and the new additions of Tapus and UBs) that would mean that if there's another "invasion of other dimension pokes" like on ORAS, they'd obviously need to be caught in gen 7, else that would mean that if only gen 7 pokes are allowed, all legendaries outside of Tapus and UBs would be cut off the format.
Random moderately related: I'm wondering if Gen 2 pokes will also get the 3x31+guaranteed HA treatment.
Random moderately related2: Imagine if Tapus caught in USUM have their HA instead making them essentially useless
Well that's the end of all things anyway, whatever we can speculate it's their game and it's probably already ready to ship at this point no matter what the fanbase can say.
those four
What were the "big two" aside from the four legends? M-Kangaskhan and M-Salamence?the Big Six
IIRC, Big Six was a archetype from VGC16 with P-Groudon, Xerneas, M-Kangaskhan, M-Salamence, Smeargle and another shit like Talonflame, Thundurus, Lando-T, etcWhat were the "big two" aside from the four legends? M-Kangaskhan and M-Salamence?
The issue with 2016 VGC meta has had a lot to do with the huge powercreep of mega evos and the new primals. in 2010, the powercreep wasnt as big, and legendaryes while stronger weren't Xerneas or Primal-Groudon level broke.
It's kind of obvious that when a poke (or 3 of them) has a option that that not only buffs his stats by 100+, buffs his stab and makes nearly everything that's supereffective against it *FAIL*, the meta will inevitably revolve around it.
It feels they learned the lesson in gen 7, with Lunala/Solgaleo/Necrozma nowhere as broken, but still, i'd rather them to keep cover leges out of competitive scene either ways.
Z-crystals on their own give valid ways to deal with mega evos and pseudolegendaryes, even uber-tier ones like Metagross, without the need to feature cover leges to have a varied competitive environment.
(though, nobody knows if suddently USUM will present another Primal Groudon level atrocity, I surely hope not :X )