Actually, that's not possible - the Strength puzzle is on the Ground Floor, while Gible is in the basement.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon that are great competitively but suck in-game (and vice versa)
- Thread starter Yami_Wheeler
- Start date
Mr. Mime. In Pokemon Fire Red you get him for trading an abra. Pokemon like Mr. Mime and Alakazam just wreck shit in gen 3. It levels easily and it will have confusion when you catch. That is not good, but psybeam is a few levels away and phycic is not far off at all. Technician Magical Leaf and Shock Wave is good too. The last slot could be calm mind, a screen, or substitute.
But for competetive it is outclassed. Fairy typing did not save it. It can baton pass...and that is about it.
But for competetive it is outclassed. Fairy typing did not save it. It can baton pass...and that is about it.
Technician didn't exist until Gen 4. Either way though, FRLG Mr Mime is really good; as is any decently fast decently powerful psychic with all the poison types in game and the lack of resists beyond Magneton and other psychics. The boosted exp. really helps too; it means it never falls behind and is easy to raise.
I do wanna chime in on the DPPt Lucario topic from several years back. I used Riolu on my first run, and it actually wasn't too bad. Aura Sphere comes at level 37, which isn't actually too massive a jump past Byron's levels when you can reach Iron Island. Once Riolu evolves, you can give him Focus Blast from Veilstone, Brick Break from Oreburgh gate if that isn't overly contested for your team, Swords Dance by level up for sweeping bosses (no TM detour), Drain Punch from Maylene, Flash Cannon from Byron himself, and a couple elemental punches plus Zen Headbutt (for Poisons like Crobat) or such from Pt move tutors (though I was playing Pearl).
The main obstacle is babying it to evolve, but once it gets to that second stage, it has a fairly good TM movepool for handling the next couple of fights at least as a glass cannon (so maybe some Speed or a little level leg up helps for some faster mons like Weavile), and if you're willing to bring it up to the leveling curve anyway it gets Aura Sphere and Close Combat in relatively quick succession, giving it options as a mixed attacker or simply picking a side. I would say it's at least worth "Magikarp" credit, with a long babying period that has a fairly good payoff, albeit both instances are probably less dramatic since Riolu doesn't have a specific level to evolve and Lucario is good without being quite the level of something like Gen 1 Gyarados once it evolves.
Regular Lucario itself doesn't have much place in OU (Mega is just as OP in game as competitive) that I can see, as it falls short of "sweeper" tier speed and it has some coverage issues for Wall Breaking (albeit Meteor Mash now helps its dual STAB accuracy)
I'm not sure what qualifies as bad for competitive (having a place in no tier or being relegated to a particular tier), but another mon that springs to mind for me is Darumaka, especially in Gen 5's games, especially if N's Pokemon are valid for boosted EXP. In competitive, being a a glass cannon wall breaker relying heavily on a Recoil STAB does hurt its performance, especially with hazard weaknesses. In-game, however, the speed is fine, and it comes with Fire Fang and very close to upgrading to Fire Punch (if not having it outright for N's at level 22), plus some Fighting coverage and upgrading to Flare Blitz for a Nuke option. The Coverage of Fire/fighting and maybe a Rock type TM is enough to double down for a nuke and "sweeping" move, and as noted the boosted EXP definitely helps its leveling curve.
The main obstacle is babying it to evolve, but once it gets to that second stage, it has a fairly good TM movepool for handling the next couple of fights at least as a glass cannon (so maybe some Speed or a little level leg up helps for some faster mons like Weavile), and if you're willing to bring it up to the leveling curve anyway it gets Aura Sphere and Close Combat in relatively quick succession, giving it options as a mixed attacker or simply picking a side. I would say it's at least worth "Magikarp" credit, with a long babying period that has a fairly good payoff, albeit both instances are probably less dramatic since Riolu doesn't have a specific level to evolve and Lucario is good without being quite the level of something like Gen 1 Gyarados once it evolves.
Regular Lucario itself doesn't have much place in OU (Mega is just as OP in game as competitive) that I can see, as it falls short of "sweeper" tier speed and it has some coverage issues for Wall Breaking (albeit Meteor Mash now helps its dual STAB accuracy)
I'm not sure what qualifies as bad for competitive (having a place in no tier or being relegated to a particular tier), but another mon that springs to mind for me is Darumaka, especially in Gen 5's games, especially if N's Pokemon are valid for boosted EXP. In competitive, being a a glass cannon wall breaker relying heavily on a Recoil STAB does hurt its performance, especially with hazard weaknesses. In-game, however, the speed is fine, and it comes with Fire Fang and very close to upgrading to Fire Punch (if not having it outright for N's at level 22), plus some Fighting coverage and upgrading to Flare Blitz for a Nuke option. The Coverage of Fire/fighting and maybe a Rock type TM is enough to double down for a nuke and "sweeping" move, and as noted the boosted EXP definitely helps its leveling curve.
Oh my mistake. To think I ran magical leaf and shock wave the moment I got it lol. I just assumed it had technician because soundproof never kicked in.
But yes you summed up my experience with it.
Farfetched in RBYFRLG was a pretty useful HM slave and being a traded Pokemon it gained a lot of EXP early on.
Competitively and in future games it is literally extinct.
Competitively and in future games it is literally extinct.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Mewtwo gen I.
You literally have to beat the game to get it. Why bother if you already finished it?
E4 runs? Lol. You beat them to get to M2.
Pokédex completion? Not complete without trading anyways.
PVP battles? Cinnabar Island trick to catch level 255 Pokémon. That means Chansey and Slowbro at level 255 vs your level 100 Mewtwo... ya you can make Mewtwo level 255 but who still plays gen 1 on 3DS when you have Crystal?
Mewtwo= The epitome of this thread - Too little too late, for use in game, even though it is the best in the metagame.
You literally have to beat the game to get it. Why bother if you already finished it?
E4 runs? Lol. You beat them to get to M2.
Pokédex completion? Not complete without trading anyways.
PVP battles? Cinnabar Island trick to catch level 255 Pokémon. That means Chansey and Slowbro at level 255 vs your level 100 Mewtwo... ya you can make Mewtwo level 255 but who still plays gen 1 on 3DS when you have Crystal?
Mewtwo= The epitome of this thread - Too little too late, for use in game, even though it is the best in the metagame.
I do think a lot of Pseudo legends have this issue, (bar a couple) as they are generally obtained late game with little time to evolve fully (BW Deino, for example) or are obtained early with a long time of being generally weak and not overly useful (HGSS Dratini, if obtained at the Game Corner, or Plat. Gible.)
A little biased here as I generally try to avoid using them anyway. In ORAS my team usually consists of my Starter, a Mightyena, Dustox/Beautifly, Minum/Plusle, among a few other pokes. Most of them tend to suck competitively.
A little biased here as I generally try to avoid using them anyway. In ORAS my team usually consists of my Starter, a Mightyena, Dustox/Beautifly, Minum/Plusle, among a few other pokes. Most of them tend to suck competitively.
Farfetch'd still sucks. The speedrun only uses Farfetch'd for Viola, as it is far and away the most consistent option for her in that setting. It gets replaced before Grant (because Grant blows it off the planet) and is thoroughly outclassed by the Flying-type that replaces it, Hawlucha.
Unfortunately that's mostly due to the early Scald TM available in SM though.
In USUM where Scald was moved to basically postgame, Wishi became again pretty meh due to the fact it is very slow so have to be healed up constantly :(
Primarina steamrolled through the game when i first got Moon. It literally slaughtered the Elite 4 and it wrecked most of the shit trials except Lurantis. Other than that It's okay compativly I guess, pretty decent in BSS and UU. Decent wallbreaker all around I just haven't used it since.
TBH, my favorite Pokemon, Serperior was not too great in BW. First of all, it isn't good against most of the gyms (not counting striaton bc it targeted starter's weakness).
1. It does okay against Lenora, as long as you switch out to tank Watchog's retaliate.
2. It gets steamrolled by Burgh and his bug types.
3. Snivy/Servine/Serperior does not enjoy taking flying type moves from Elesa's Emolga and flame charge from Zebstrika.
4. Does pretty well against Clay.
5. Skyla obliterates Serperior with her flying types.
6. Any of Brycen's ice types can easily OHKO Serperior
7. Serperior cannot do much damage to Drayden's/Iris's dragon types.
Second, battles against Cheren are extremely difficult because Serperior can only safely take out two of his Pokemon (Liepard and Gigalith), and does not have enough firepower to take out the other 4.
Third, Serperior cannot do much against N. Its can be hit by super effective moves from Zoroark, Vanilluxe, Archeops, and Reshiram (if you play white version)
With the introduction of its new hidden ability in generation 6, contrary+leaf storm Serperior is not something to be taken lightly, and can sweep teams with ease.
1. It does okay against Lenora, as long as you switch out to tank Watchog's retaliate.
2. It gets steamrolled by Burgh and his bug types.
3. Snivy/Servine/Serperior does not enjoy taking flying type moves from Elesa's Emolga and flame charge from Zebstrika.
4. Does pretty well against Clay.
5. Skyla obliterates Serperior with her flying types.
6. Any of Brycen's ice types can easily OHKO Serperior
7. Serperior cannot do much damage to Drayden's/Iris's dragon types.
Second, battles against Cheren are extremely difficult because Serperior can only safely take out two of his Pokemon (Liepard and Gigalith), and does not have enough firepower to take out the other 4.
Third, Serperior cannot do much against N. Its can be hit by super effective moves from Zoroark, Vanilluxe, Archeops, and Reshiram (if you play white version)
With the introduction of its new hidden ability in generation 6, contrary+leaf storm Serperior is not something to be taken lightly, and can sweep teams with ease.
This looks like a fun thing to do:
1. Toxapex: Competitively is one of the best Pokémon in the OU tier but in-game it's a pain to encounter and if you do manage to get it all it does is be a defensive wall and not do much in attacking.
2. Chansey/Blissey: Same as Toxapex, one of the best Pokémon, difficult to encounter, and if you do get it, it can't battle well (except maybe in Gen 1)
3. Most Pseudo-Legendaries: Many of the Pseudo-Legendaries take really long to raise in their weak forms or come really late to even do well in the main game. The only exception is Gible in Platinum.
4. Heracross (Gen 2): Heracross is known for its unique Bug/Fighting typing and getting the best Bug move, Megahorn. Too bad you're not gonna get it until Level 54! Plus you got no reliable Fighting move to use. That means you're stuck using a Heracross only using Normal moves for the whole game. You might as well catch a Tauros or Miltank if you're gonna do that.
5. Sableye: Pretty annoying Pokémon. With it's Prankster ability and Mega Evolution bringing anger in the metagame. But it's pretty bad in the main game since both are usually cut off from it and you're left with a mon with no stat above 75.
1. Toxapex: Competitively is one of the best Pokémon in the OU tier but in-game it's a pain to encounter and if you do manage to get it all it does is be a defensive wall and not do much in attacking.
2. Chansey/Blissey: Same as Toxapex, one of the best Pokémon, difficult to encounter, and if you do get it, it can't battle well (except maybe in Gen 1)
3. Most Pseudo-Legendaries: Many of the Pseudo-Legendaries take really long to raise in their weak forms or come really late to even do well in the main game. The only exception is Gible in Platinum.
4. Heracross (Gen 2): Heracross is known for its unique Bug/Fighting typing and getting the best Bug move, Megahorn. Too bad you're not gonna get it until Level 54! Plus you got no reliable Fighting move to use. That means you're stuck using a Heracross only using Normal moves for the whole game. You might as well catch a Tauros or Miltank if you're gonna do that.
5. Sableye: Pretty annoying Pokémon. With it's Prankster ability and Mega Evolution bringing anger in the metagame. But it's pretty bad in the main game since both are usually cut off from it and you're left with a mon with no stat above 75.
Eh, to be fair to Sableye it's not bad in RSE. Having no type weaknesses helps. The following generations weren't kind to its in-game performance, and gen 4 gave it a slap in the face with Stall. (why does this ability exist?)
The only time I've really used Sableye in-game was for an HM slave in Gen 3. Other than that I don't see much reason to use it with its bad typing and shallow movepool. Just because it has no weakness doesn't make it not bad.
Not sure if this applies to the topic, but Sableye was a key member in my Emerald Mono-Dark run because it was the one team member that could take on Brawly.
Serperior.
Nidoking.
In Pokemon RB glitchless speedruns, Nidoking is an absolute must to use. According to the pokemonspeedruns.com FAQ for RBY:
In Pokemon RB glitchless speedruns, Nidoking is an absolute must to use. According to the pokemonspeedruns.com FAQ for RBY:
However, in the actual games, Nidoking has been a severe victim of power creep. While he has remained comfortable in UU for some time, which is not all bad for him, and is perfectly usable in OU, he does require some work to utilise properly, and even his SM article points out there are some vicious competition for his role as a wallbreaker.Q: Why does this run require a Nidoran?
A: It is the best early-game Pokémon available in terms of base stats and moveset.
Male Nidoran learns Horn Attack and Thrash quite early on in the run to sweep through early game fights and later is able to learn a really diverse combination of TM moves like Bubblebeam, Earthquake, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Horn Drill.
Good in-game, not so much competitively:
- Jynx. She was a powerhouse in earlier generations. In FRLG, she's available mid-game, through an in-game trade and learns Ice Punch fairly early. With Ice/Psychic, she destroys Erika, Koga, Giovanni, Bruno and Lance. Although I have to say that she's been more difficult to work with lately, mostly because she needs later TMs to be efficient.
- Dodrio. Good stats and strong STABs, plus Jump Kick for coverage later on.
- Tangrowth. It's so slow, other Grass-types can be much more successful.
- Forretress. Designated hazards-setters are not typically good in-game.
- Alomomola. High HP just isn't enough...
Pretty much all heavily defensive Pokemon are bad in-game, honestly, because it's much quicker and easier to defeat things the old-fashioned way than to try and outlast them.
Another thing that's great in PvP but not so much in-game are low-PP and self-harming moves, since in-game is more about multiple battles vs relatively weak foes (a war of attrition, in other words) instead of single self-contained battles between equals.
Another thing that's great in PvP but not so much in-game are low-PP and self-harming moves, since in-game is more about multiple battles vs relatively weak foes (a war of attrition, in other words) instead of single self-contained battles between equals.
Clefairy is uh... pretty much trash-tier in game because it can't even do much damage, isn't fast, and doesn't have good enough bulk to even outlast an enemy and revenge kill it. However, Clefairy is an amazingly niche choice for support in VGC, with its hidden ability Friend Guard, that won't even see use in-game, because most battles are Singles and it's not exactly easy to find a hidden ability Pokemon outside of chaining (Gen 7), Friend Safari (Gen 6), and Dream World (Gen 5). It also has pretty solid bulk when coupled with eviolite, allowing to absorb attacks using Follow Me, helping allies to set up or just to take minimal damage. After You is also a great choice in Trick Room thanks to the abysmal speed Clefairy has, helping fast partners almost always go first in Trick Room (akin to LiliKoal). Also forgot to mention that Level 51 won Singapore Nationals in 2016 with Clefairy and it also recently won the Korea Cup as well as the Oceania Internationals in the Seniors division. Personally one of my favourite picks when people ask this question because a lot of people don't realise how useful Clef is in Doubles :D
Clefairy is pretty good in RBY if you can find one. TM heavy but evolves when you get it and can use whatever TMs the rest of your team don't want to use. In a team with Blastoise and Dugtrio mine ran Thunderbolt/Fire Blast/Strength/Psychic iirc