Okay, so here's a wrap up of the game from my POV. As the village leader, here's what happened.
So, my game plan was simple. I wanted to lead from day 0. I saw I had a good role, did not have confidence others who WERE good leaders would have time to lead, and I went for it. Then, I got randed twice (lol), and at the time nobody knew how cheap frame was so there we were. My plan to win the game was almost entirely centric around manipulating the scum teams. I spent a LONG time communicating with Agape, Narwall, and OM Room while he was in the game, significantly more than any villager. The way I saw it, town actions were okay but there were only 5 members of each scum team and every single cross kill ALSO meant 1 less kill on town so it was a HUGE plus. I leveraged not lynching the Robots in exchange for them cross killing, and even though I wasn't going to lynch AIs I still leveraged it with them for info. This continued throughout the game, and there are hundreds of lines of chat with me and Narwall and Shade.
Here's the thing. You can criticize the mafias for playing poorly if you want, sure. The reason town won, imo, is because of how quickly I got a full sheet, how quickly I sheeted people (had 3 n0), how I only sheeted correctly, and how the mafias cross killed. It would be fair to say the mafia played poorly, but honestly I want to take credit for that and you may disagree but in my mind that's how it went down. I was micromanaging the FUCK out of mafias. Like, as an example, n1 I had Jalmont watch who Robots were going to kill if they hadn't killed Archipelago. At this point, I knew Jalmont was Robot, had him do it anyways. He asked why I didn't have him watch Archipelago, and I postured about how I wanted to express loyalty to Robots and how if they killed for town I shouldn't watch their kills out of respect. Now, maybe he went to his robot chat and said I could be trusted and maybe he didn't, but it would have affected his subconscious most likely and I did things like that all game long. And, of course, the entire time I was shading other teams and making them not trust each other but NOT saying things I could get called out on; I made sure to say some risque stuff on PS for example so Narwall wouldn't have the logs.
It was not chance the mafias cross killed a fair bit. The "correct" play is for them to all gangbang town at least for 3 or 4 nights. However, that isn't how it plays out in practice because if you have the option of getting out of the lynch in exchange for not shooting town you do that; 5 members does NOT leave expendable people, and you aren't going to sacrifice your game for a "mafias" win rather than a town win. And, eliminating 1 team is NOT good for town, despite what Agape tried to pitch to me. That was their goal, forcing the other 2 to gangbang town. Fair enough in theory... except that I made sure there were casualties on the other teams. Information management was huge in this game, and I'm proud of what I did around that. I picked and clawed little bits of info from Agape, leveraged that to get a few full things from Narwall, and leverage that into getting OM Room to give me the full sheet and Narwall ended up giving me half of it anyways; all 3 teams leaked the mafia sheet, so don't ya'll go blaming each other like I see above. It's fine to criticize play, but saying the way I played had nothing to do that is pretty insulting to me because my entire game was around social manipulation.
Yea yea josh, we get it, you think you're the greatest player who ever lived. Okay, let's talk about info management. I don't think there was anything intrinsically wrong. We didn't know scum all had 6 and most village had 5, I myself had 6, so that really wasn't a giveaway. I don't really care about how cheap alliance checks were, because they were unreliable as all hell itg. I caught maybe 3 or 4 scum using them? The rest was through gameplay alone, including all lynches before I was killed. I had a full sheet by d3 and most of a sheet by d2; that wasn't from a lack of effort. I pressured the fuck out of people for claims, people will attest to that, because without a full claim sheet there's no way to actually catch scum reliably.
You can say scum were screwed, but the scum who claimed properly were the last ones we caught; Zorbees, Rein, ...that's it. Martin claimed alias and then I had to message like 8 times he kept even refusing to talk to me, saying he wasn't even doing night actions, etc... and then we saw his alias on a random other watcher. Shade flat out didn't answer PMs. Rodan didn't answer PMs other than to give alias. Narwall, Agape, and Shubaka, 3 publicly claimed mafia, were 3 of 8 people who didn't vote on a lynch... and 3 of the others were Rodan/Martin/MXMTS aka all scum. Like wtf? No clue how scum caught Oddish, they informed me that alias might be AI and when I didn't lynch it they shot it. Champ fakeclaimed an alias, I lied and said someone else claimed it and she then claimed her real alias when I knew she was scum from the other stuff in my case I posted....... like lmao? Haruno flat out didn't play the game. Oh, back to Champ, did I mention the alias she fakeclaimed was Knoll AKA her teammate AND she said she knew nobody ccd her because she knew who had the alias but she claimed anyways? And then I pressured that slot and got a guilty. Again, there's a factor of bad play, but there's also a factor of my skill that it took to get all of this shit. Shubaka wouldn't fake being diplomatic, so his team got massacred up until said team also gave me the full and complete action sheet :thinking:. MXMTS claimed scum when I pressured him. I lied and said I had a guilty on him. I just thought he was scummy from play in our pms. Jalmont, well, played fine for the most part, he I caught from an inspect early on and played to my advantage. One of the few scum that didn't play like shit. He claimed well, role and alias, at a believable time. Pidge is another in the same category; had him clear acid for me and then had him guiltied back. Solid play overall from what was public. Agape I knew was going to stab me so I stabbed him first, I've gone over what I've done with him. Rein played good as well; guiltied him or something I actually don't remember. Rodan and Shade request mafia and to be on the same team every time, but flat out ignoring me and refusing to take actions or do anything productive certainly didn't help. Twin help me finalize my guilty on them on playstyle in our chat, mostly Rodan.
The TL;DR of the above is that the only scum who actually claimed believably, acted townie in taking actions, and even tried to put in an effort are Jalmont, Pidge, Rein, and Zorbees.... less than a third. Don't blame it being hard to fake claim on the loss, scum didn't even try this game. They outed themselves. Tbh, I was disappointed when I rolled village because I thought this game was scumsided due to 3 opposing kills. Perhaps based on DLE post it was a bit townsided, who knows. I didn't sheet anyone off of results really though; it was off play almost entirely. Then, Acid got sheeted when I trusted him and I used him to truly clear people, but yea.
Now: for where I fucked up. I really am sorry for what happened with the drama in the thread. I stand by the people who were calling me scum for not lynching a robot in 2 days and trying to start a mutiny: it was virtually guaranteed one scum team wouldn't have died yet short of mass cross kills, and by pure odds it was extremely likely. And, Robots cross killed, that really wasn't a hard agreement to spot. I handled it very immaturely though. I was on very low sleep, working too much, and I didn't react well. I should have been much more mature about it, rather than insulting people. The thing is, from my POV my entire gameplan was literally cross manipulating scum, I put VERY little value into actions from n1 when I realized just how unimportant most were. BTW, Apricity, that's why I kept forgetting to give actions and told people to rand just in case; only a few were actually important, your random alliance check wasn't. I know I technically should have been more on top of that, and that's my bad, but it wasn't actually relevant to us winning it would've just been busy work that I didn't have time for. And, for obvious reasons, I can't publicly post "my gameplan is to pit scum against each other and have them kill each other"... and saying that privately outside of my sheet chat doesn't work because I don't know who's mafia. FH, Apricity, Ullar you might legitimately be the three most obnoxious mafia players I've ever played with and I don't overly want to play with the latter two again, but I am sorry for not handling it more maturely and that part is completely on me. I was pretty cringy in my posting, I'm ngl that was mostly AtE so ya'll would shut up but it was still not ideal and a pretty scummy way to put off the problem. Fun fact: I asked my gym partner how to deal with annoying people as a leader and she said to make a poll; that's where the strawpoll came from. A quick 5 minute post from the gym. I wasn't lying, I probably won't play another OC on this site because honestly that part of the game just wasn't fun for me, not something I handled well, and not something I want to reexperience.
Thanks for modding AG and a bit Blazade. You made some modding decisions I really disagree with but deadlines, results, and actions were swift, you answered the questions you actually answered pretty quickly, and there were very few mod errors afaik which is nice for a game this complicated. As someone who had to deal with giving actions twice, must've been annoying from a hosting side too. Ya'll did a good job. Paperblade, thanks for being active while you were alive, DLE, thanks for being active while the rest of the people sheeted weren't and being the person keeping me same. You may not be a close friend but you're one of my favorite people on smogon jsyk. Walrein/Flyhn/Memoric/whoever else was sheeted early I'm forgetting: I'm ngl, I'm pretty disappointed how little you helped me. I kept coming with info from scum teams about stuff and strat talk and action talk and advice and stuff and got very little in return. I know you may have been busy irl, but from my pov it was really annoying not having more active leadership. I almost lolsheeted DLE n2 (would've worked out fine but not a good play obv) because of how little ya'll were talking. Ah well.
Despite all my bitching, I did have fun for a lot of this game and IDC what others think but I personally was very proud of my play and am happy with it as a whole. GG all, I think I covered everything ? If you're wondering why my posts are so long it's because I'm an English minor so feck off.
So, my game plan was simple. I wanted to lead from day 0. I saw I had a good role, did not have confidence others who WERE good leaders would have time to lead, and I went for it. Then, I got randed twice (lol), and at the time nobody knew how cheap frame was so there we were. My plan to win the game was almost entirely centric around manipulating the scum teams. I spent a LONG time communicating with Agape, Narwall, and OM Room while he was in the game, significantly more than any villager. The way I saw it, town actions were okay but there were only 5 members of each scum team and every single cross kill ALSO meant 1 less kill on town so it was a HUGE plus. I leveraged not lynching the Robots in exchange for them cross killing, and even though I wasn't going to lynch AIs I still leveraged it with them for info. This continued throughout the game, and there are hundreds of lines of chat with me and Narwall and Shade.
Here's the thing. You can criticize the mafias for playing poorly if you want, sure. The reason town won, imo, is because of how quickly I got a full sheet, how quickly I sheeted people (had 3 n0), how I only sheeted correctly, and how the mafias cross killed. It would be fair to say the mafia played poorly, but honestly I want to take credit for that and you may disagree but in my mind that's how it went down. I was micromanaging the FUCK out of mafias. Like, as an example, n1 I had Jalmont watch who Robots were going to kill if they hadn't killed Archipelago. At this point, I knew Jalmont was Robot, had him do it anyways. He asked why I didn't have him watch Archipelago, and I postured about how I wanted to express loyalty to Robots and how if they killed for town I shouldn't watch their kills out of respect. Now, maybe he went to his robot chat and said I could be trusted and maybe he didn't, but it would have affected his subconscious most likely and I did things like that all game long. And, of course, the entire time I was shading other teams and making them not trust each other but NOT saying things I could get called out on; I made sure to say some risque stuff on PS for example so Narwall wouldn't have the logs.
It was not chance the mafias cross killed a fair bit. The "correct" play is for them to all gangbang town at least for 3 or 4 nights. However, that isn't how it plays out in practice because if you have the option of getting out of the lynch in exchange for not shooting town you do that; 5 members does NOT leave expendable people, and you aren't going to sacrifice your game for a "mafias" win rather than a town win. And, eliminating 1 team is NOT good for town, despite what Agape tried to pitch to me. That was their goal, forcing the other 2 to gangbang town. Fair enough in theory... except that I made sure there were casualties on the other teams. Information management was huge in this game, and I'm proud of what I did around that. I picked and clawed little bits of info from Agape, leveraged that to get a few full things from Narwall, and leverage that into getting OM Room to give me the full sheet and Narwall ended up giving me half of it anyways; all 3 teams leaked the mafia sheet, so don't ya'll go blaming each other like I see above. It's fine to criticize play, but saying the way I played had nothing to do that is pretty insulting to me because my entire game was around social manipulation.
Yea yea josh, we get it, you think you're the greatest player who ever lived. Okay, let's talk about info management. I don't think there was anything intrinsically wrong. We didn't know scum all had 6 and most village had 5, I myself had 6, so that really wasn't a giveaway. I don't really care about how cheap alliance checks were, because they were unreliable as all hell itg. I caught maybe 3 or 4 scum using them? The rest was through gameplay alone, including all lynches before I was killed. I had a full sheet by d3 and most of a sheet by d2; that wasn't from a lack of effort. I pressured the fuck out of people for claims, people will attest to that, because without a full claim sheet there's no way to actually catch scum reliably.
You can say scum were screwed, but the scum who claimed properly were the last ones we caught; Zorbees, Rein, ...that's it. Martin claimed alias and then I had to message like 8 times he kept even refusing to talk to me, saying he wasn't even doing night actions, etc... and then we saw his alias on a random other watcher. Shade flat out didn't answer PMs. Rodan didn't answer PMs other than to give alias. Narwall, Agape, and Shubaka, 3 publicly claimed mafia, were 3 of 8 people who didn't vote on a lynch... and 3 of the others were Rodan/Martin/MXMTS aka all scum. Like wtf? No clue how scum caught Oddish, they informed me that alias might be AI and when I didn't lynch it they shot it. Champ fakeclaimed an alias, I lied and said someone else claimed it and she then claimed her real alias when I knew she was scum from the other stuff in my case I posted....... like lmao? Haruno flat out didn't play the game. Oh, back to Champ, did I mention the alias she fakeclaimed was Knoll AKA her teammate AND she said she knew nobody ccd her because she knew who had the alias but she claimed anyways? And then I pressured that slot and got a guilty. Again, there's a factor of bad play, but there's also a factor of my skill that it took to get all of this shit. Shubaka wouldn't fake being diplomatic, so his team got massacred up until said team also gave me the full and complete action sheet :thinking:. MXMTS claimed scum when I pressured him. I lied and said I had a guilty on him. I just thought he was scummy from play in our pms. Jalmont, well, played fine for the most part, he I caught from an inspect early on and played to my advantage. One of the few scum that didn't play like shit. He claimed well, role and alias, at a believable time. Pidge is another in the same category; had him clear acid for me and then had him guiltied back. Solid play overall from what was public. Agape I knew was going to stab me so I stabbed him first, I've gone over what I've done with him. Rein played good as well; guiltied him or something I actually don't remember. Rodan and Shade request mafia and to be on the same team every time, but flat out ignoring me and refusing to take actions or do anything productive certainly didn't help. Twin help me finalize my guilty on them on playstyle in our chat, mostly Rodan.
The TL;DR of the above is that the only scum who actually claimed believably, acted townie in taking actions, and even tried to put in an effort are Jalmont, Pidge, Rein, and Zorbees.... less than a third. Don't blame it being hard to fake claim on the loss, scum didn't even try this game. They outed themselves. Tbh, I was disappointed when I rolled village because I thought this game was scumsided due to 3 opposing kills. Perhaps based on DLE post it was a bit townsided, who knows. I didn't sheet anyone off of results really though; it was off play almost entirely. Then, Acid got sheeted when I trusted him and I used him to truly clear people, but yea.
Now: for where I fucked up. I really am sorry for what happened with the drama in the thread. I stand by the people who were calling me scum for not lynching a robot in 2 days and trying to start a mutiny: it was virtually guaranteed one scum team wouldn't have died yet short of mass cross kills, and by pure odds it was extremely likely. And, Robots cross killed, that really wasn't a hard agreement to spot. I handled it very immaturely though. I was on very low sleep, working too much, and I didn't react well. I should have been much more mature about it, rather than insulting people. The thing is, from my POV my entire gameplan was literally cross manipulating scum, I put VERY little value into actions from n1 when I realized just how unimportant most were. BTW, Apricity, that's why I kept forgetting to give actions and told people to rand just in case; only a few were actually important, your random alliance check wasn't. I know I technically should have been more on top of that, and that's my bad, but it wasn't actually relevant to us winning it would've just been busy work that I didn't have time for. And, for obvious reasons, I can't publicly post "my gameplan is to pit scum against each other and have them kill each other"... and saying that privately outside of my sheet chat doesn't work because I don't know who's mafia. FH, Apricity, Ullar you might legitimately be the three most obnoxious mafia players I've ever played with and I don't overly want to play with the latter two again, but I am sorry for not handling it more maturely and that part is completely on me. I was pretty cringy in my posting, I'm ngl that was mostly AtE so ya'll would shut up but it was still not ideal and a pretty scummy way to put off the problem. Fun fact: I asked my gym partner how to deal with annoying people as a leader and she said to make a poll; that's where the strawpoll came from. A quick 5 minute post from the gym. I wasn't lying, I probably won't play another OC on this site because honestly that part of the game just wasn't fun for me, not something I handled well, and not something I want to reexperience.
Thanks for modding AG and a bit Blazade. You made some modding decisions I really disagree with but deadlines, results, and actions were swift, you answered the questions you actually answered pretty quickly, and there were very few mod errors afaik which is nice for a game this complicated. As someone who had to deal with giving actions twice, must've been annoying from a hosting side too. Ya'll did a good job. Paperblade, thanks for being active while you were alive, DLE, thanks for being active while the rest of the people sheeted weren't and being the person keeping me same. You may not be a close friend but you're one of my favorite people on smogon jsyk. Walrein/Flyhn/Memoric/whoever else was sheeted early I'm forgetting: I'm ngl, I'm pretty disappointed how little you helped me. I kept coming with info from scum teams about stuff and strat talk and action talk and advice and stuff and got very little in return. I know you may have been busy irl, but from my pov it was really annoying not having more active leadership. I almost lolsheeted DLE n2 (would've worked out fine but not a good play obv) because of how little ya'll were talking. Ah well.
Despite all my bitching, I did have fun for a lot of this game and IDC what others think but I personally was very proud of my play and am happy with it as a whole. GG all, I think I covered everything ? If you're wondering why my posts are so long it's because I'm an English minor so feck off.
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