Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Hello and finally welcome to the PU Tier!
With the recently released July Stats PU Will finally enter in its beta stage for gen 7.
For tiering we will be using something similar to the "kokoloko method" which involves banning anything controversial at the beginning to then retest them one by one in order to get a playable tier in the shortest time possible. A more in-depth explanation can be found here.
In any case after discussing with Anty and Megazard we have decided to ban Sawk which will not be allowed in beta (The Immortal so that he knows)
which means that from the alpha banlist we lost:
aurorus, alolan sandslash, qwilfish, malamar, typhlosion, vileplume, mesprit, cincinno
and gained:
vivillon, komala, absol
More to come in the next few days since I'm on vacation but have fun! Remember: No one liners
There are many controversial Pokemon in PU Beta, however we chose to only ban Sawk as it is clearly the most restrictive and negative Pokemon to the development in the tier. Its very high attack stat equipped with Choice Band combined with its amazing coverage makes it virtually impossible to full on counter (the only one being phdef sableye), not helped by PU losing the best defensive fighting check, Qwilfish, that can abuse choice-locked Sawk. Furthermore its ability Sturdy takes away many offensive checks, as very few mons which outspeed can live a choice banded close combat. Due to its moderate Speed and amazing STAB move, Sawk will can constantly be put in a situation where the opponent is forced into a 50/50 in order to not lose a mon, and even with a correct prediction Sawk can still heavily damage most fighting resists. Overall there is no way Sawk will benefit the tier in any way rather put heavy restrictions on bulkier teams and still be a massive burden for offensive teams to play against.
Following this PU will use a similar system to NU/RU, more details of which will be released later, so expect more mons to get the boot soon. Have fun and remember no one liners!!!
(I'm on mobile so no fancy images and stuff, sorry for this post looking like shit)
With beta finally here, I wanted to give a couple thoughts on our new drops that we got for beta:
Vivillon: I wasn't around for PU Spec but I know this thing was around for that and from things I heard, this thing was a monster in the tier. Having nearly no good mons to resist its attacks down here along with access to Sleep Powder to put a switch-in to sleep and continue setting up is gonna make it a nightmare to face if you lack Magmortar or a fairly sturdy resist + sleep fodder Vivi will put a strain on teambuilding I feel as a result because frankly, the tier is just not adaptive yet to be able to bear its presence. This thing can afford to run either Sub Lefties sets to help it more vs Offensive teams to prevent revenge killing or Flynium Z sets to just nuke something or dent a mon which helps it vs more Balanced teams to help possibly pave the path for another teammate.
Komala: Cool little drop we got here. Komala brings us yet another offensive spinner to the table, boasting U-Turn, STAB Returns, EQ, and even having SD. However, Sableye will be more common now than before I feel due to our loss of a lot of our Fighting resists which Komala just can't really spin vs or beat at all as a matter of fact, and it's pretty balls slow which doesn't seem like that much of a problem, but combined with its only decent at best bulk, it can create issues keeping it alive throughout the match. It'll probably be more effective once we get out of beta but for the time-being I just don't see Komala being too much of a reliable spinner at this stage.
Absol: Absol is actually another pretty crazy drop. Being a Dark-type with base 130 Attack, it can't be burned by Sableye, allowing it to do a lot of work vs a lot of Balanced teams with its coverage + SD. It even gets access to Sucker Punch for the Offensive MU, so it's not complete dead weight against Offense either. Absol will struggle with stall a bit with Quagsire and Pyuku being commonplace on those team, and it'll struggle even moreso if it opts to run coverage > Taunt to help it vs the Stall MU. The main problem with Absol is it's frail, so it kinda needs to make sure it can KILL whatever is it front of it or else it's gonna at least take a shit ton of damage from things, or even outright get KO'd in return. Still, I think Absol will be able to leave its mark on the tier with how dangerous of a Mon it will be.
Woo that was a lot to type on mobile. One thing I think a lot of people are happy for are the absence of a lot of threatening mons from PU that were probably gonna be banned regardless. No more Typhlosion, no more Sawk, no more Aurora Veil, and most importantly, no more MALAMAR! That's it from me, just wanted to get these thoughts out as PU Beta is beginning as I was intrigued by these drops and yeah... enjoy finding out what's broken now with Sawk gone.
#FreeMalamarAndTyphlosionTheyWerentBroken
E: idk how I forgot but Komala also gets Wish, could be a cool option but it'll struggle with picking its moves
E2:
wtf can't believe this shit gets Play Rough lmao forget what I said about it not being able to spin vs Sableye, just use Play Rough to knock Sableye around lol
hi, so with PU entering Beta, I think this is a great time to look at the state of the meta. There are some pokes which I feel are slightly too good for the tier as it is, at the moment, and i feel like with these pokemon gone, teambuilding can be freed up and as a result people having more room to be creative. I think there are 2 main culprits which stand out to me as both "broken" in the traditional term where checks are extremely limited, but also in the case of both pokemon, limit teambuilding immensely, considering you may lose if you dont use 1 or 2 of the limited checks available.
Musharna:
In my opinion, Musharna is probably the most broken in the tier currently. I think what it has now with Z-Moves really pushes it over the edge in my opinion in terms of its capability to dismantle a team. Z-Dazzling Gleam allows it to hit every single one of its dark type checks, such as Sableye, Guzzlord, Cacturne and Liepard, but also serves 2 secondary functions that make mushy more difficult to check compared to previous generations. With Z-Items not being able to be knocked off (therefore sticking to a leisurely 65BP), previous checks, namely dark types with Knock Off, will be dealing nowhere near enough damage to really threaten Musharna like they did in the past. Z-Items also can't be tricked, which means another previous tactic of defeating Musharna or in many cases just forcing it out has been rendered all but useless given the situation of tricking a Z-Move Musharna will often mean you lose given that extreme loss of momentum. This also isn't the only set I've seen Musharna run, with Barrier + CM + Stored Power sets just as popular as they were in the previous generations, but with the advent of Z-Moves allowing a Psychium-Z Stored Power to have 160 BP, regardless of how many boosts you have, allowing Musharna to not have immediate pressure issues like the set used to have. Often times I've found the 50/50s between this set and a Z-Dazzling Gleam set being extremely difficult to manage, with me often opting to choose a more bulky toxic pokemon as my main check to this pokemon in particular. This is problematic however, given the fact that there are many clerics in the tier, its often extremely difficult to force a well built Musharna team to drop to Toxic Damage alone. Consider also that Musharnas in the past have run Heal Bell on the same set over Barrier to get past these issues. Musharna clearly also does not find it difficult to settup either. Even in games where a pokemon brings several Musharna checks, its value in terms of a Physically Bulky Wall that can recover as well as check several of the tiers top threats is extremely high. What makes Musharna "broken" are these 50/50s, and therefore its strain on teambuilding. In order to prepare for it adequately, you will need a dark type as well as a steel type Pokemon, and if not a pokemon which can toxic it and not lose 1v1. As a result, it strains teambuilding, and a tier without it would make teambuilding a hell of a lot easier. In my opinion, this is potentially the next Pokemon the council should consider quickbanning under the kokoloko method.
Gallade:
Part of the reason why Musharna is so popular and forced onto so many teams is this thing. Gallade is a menace to the PU tier, and with Sawk now gone, it has no competition for a potential Choice Band set. However, this things incredible movepool mean many sets can be run with adequate success depending on what a team needs most. Swords Dance + 3 Attacks, Sub Bulk Up, as well as several sets which utilise its immense coverage and support options make this thing have very few in the way of out and out checks. Sableye and Granbull I've had the most success with, outside of Musharna, being used as Gallade checks. In Particular, I do enjoy using Granbull with Normalium-Z and Heal Bell to make sure I can check Gallade, and then a few games after using that team in particular, +1 252 Atk Gallade Shattered Psyche (Zen Headbutt 160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 330-388 (86.1 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO happened. This truely convinced me of the pure power of Gallade, given the fact that it can break through absolutely anything it wants in the tier with little issue. I've even seen Z-Dazzling Gleam Swords Dance sets to get passed Sableye which can more often than not stops Gallade in its tracks. What makes this Pokemon an issue is then its limitation on teambuilding. Yes, you can check this Pokemon offensively, but in a balance meta where it can find settup fodder in many places (and often times the case, not needing settup fodder with Choice Band set), Gallade crushes this style of team with little to no counterplay available. In a similar way to Musharna, it forces 50/50s depending on the set. Staying in with whatever pokemon you have chosen? potentially crushed by a choice banded gallade. Switching out? potentially crushed by a swords dance set. Pivoting into a pokemon then into another one? its already Subbed on you. In my opinion, dealing with Gallade isn't healthy from a playing perspective or a teambuilding perspective which is why i think this thing should potentially banned under the kokoloko method.
tl;dr: musharna doesnt die and kills everything, gallade forces you to assume its set then punishes you depending on your assumption with deadly circumstances depending on your team but especially balance teams.
Notes:
Only Viable Pokemon are listed.
PU Beta Losses: Aurorus, Alolan Sandslash, Qwilfish, Malamar, Typhlosion, Vileplume, Mesprit, Cincinno, Sawk | Gains: Vivillon, Komala, Absol
If something seems to be missing or if you have any questions, PM me on PS or Discord
I was honored to host the first ever Sun and Moon PU Team Building Workshop! I just want to thank everyone involved for helping make this team a possibility and I really want to thank Taskr and TONE for continuously helping throughout the build!
This team functions as a balance team centering itself around one of our newest PU Pokemon Absol. Swords Dance Absol is able to threaten a good amount of Pokemon in the tier however due to the many new fighting types in the tier it essential that we needed something to dispatch of them. Carracosta is primarily our rock setter but is also great for checking the likes of Dragon Dance Charizard and other physically offensive Pokemon. This team not only struggles with Grass-types but it also has an issue with hazards, more so spikes and Toxic Spikes then Stealth Rock. Lurantis was added to Defog and check other Grass-types which alleviates a lot of pressure from its other team mates. Oricorio Pom-pom is our ground immunity as well as our revenge killer taking out Pokemon that threaten the team like Scyther. From the Gen 6 Hall of Fame, Trapinch traps grounded Steel, and Electric-types that prevent Absol and Musharna from setting up.
Absol @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Play Rough
We seem to be forgetting arguably the biggest change to come about as a result of the recent bans: The heavily decreased relevance of Aurora Veil. Aveil hyper offense was without a doubt the most powerful and omni-present play style during Alpha, forcing many teams to have to run weird Pokemon/moves to beat it, like Brick Break Sandslash-Alola and Golduck. But now, not only has the dynamic duo of Aurorus and Alolan Sandslash been banished to Neverused, but Malamar, Veil's most deadly abuser, has also met the same fate. And while there are work-arounds, they are a far cry from what came before.
Replacement Hail Setters
To be fair, Vanilluxe and Abomasnow are perfectly fine on their own as Pokemon. They're strong, and each has unique sets they can utilize and perform well with. But compared to the Hazard/Weather setting lead utility Aurorus offered, it's just not the same. Amaura does look intriguing in that regard, though it won't be doing much else aside from setting up weather/hazards and dying due to those less-than-ideal stats.
Replacement Aveil Setters
Alolan Sandshrew is so slow that it can still be outsped by most relevant scarfers in Hail, and without Eviolite/Sash, it can even be KOed while Veil is up. Regice is slow as a rock, and has only decent physical bulk. Articuno simply cannot survive in a meta where strong Stealth Rock setters such as Regirock, Cradily, Prinplup and Carracosta exist. Delibird is freaking Delibird. And Alolan Vulpix has awful stats across the board, and practically REQUIRES Sash to live a hit from any decently powerful attacker prior to Aurora Veil, meaning it sacrifices the supremely useful Light Clay.
With that said, I don't think Aurora Veil Hyper Offense will die completely. As I have stated and shown, there are other options available, albeit not as good as the original combo. However, nobody can deny that the viability of this playstyle has taken an immense hit. Pokemon that were used solely to counter Veil, such as Golduck and Lickilicky, will fall out of favor due to their unique talent not being as useful or needed. Veil itself will likely be reduced to nothing more than an uncommon, silly fun playstyle, that most serious PU players likely will not use.
In that regard, I am very excited to see what the meta will look like now. Now that the Aveil cancer shall dissipate, we can now truly pave the way for fun, innovative play and team-building. I participated in the recent PU Beta Workshop, and it was pretty fun. I had to leave mid-way due to my computer battery running out, but still, I had a blast. And while there may still be some things left to clean up, such as the aforementioned Gallade and Musharna, the worst part is over, and these hiccups will be addressed quickly and efficiently in the coming weeks. Here's to a bright and prosperous PU tier!
We seem to be forgetting arguably the biggest change to come about as a result of the recent bans: The heavily decreased relevance of Aurora Veil. Aveil hyper offense was without a doubt the most powerful and omni-present play style during Alpha, forcing many teams to have to run weird Pokemon/moves to beat it, like Brick Break Sandslash-Alola and Golduck. But now, not only has the dynamic duo of Aurorus and Alolan Sandslash been banished to Neverused, but Malamar, Veil's most deadly abuser, has also met the same fate. And while there are work-arounds, they are a far cry from what came before.
Replacement Hail Setters
To be fair, Vanilluxe and Abomasnow are perfectly fine on their own as Pokemon. They're strong, and each has unique sets they can utilize and perform well with. But compared to the Hazard/Weather setting lead utility Aurorus offered, it's just not the same. Amaura does look intriguing in that regard, though it won't be doing much else aside from setting up weather/hazards and dying due to those less-than-ideal stats.
Replacement Aveil Setters
Alolan Sandshrew is so slow that it can still be outsped by most relevant scarfers in Hail, and without Eviolite/Sash, it can even be KOed while Veil is up. Regice is slow as a rock, and has only decent physical bulk. Articuno simply cannot survive in a meta where strong Stealth Rock setters such as Regirock, Cradily, Prinplup and Carracosta exist. Delibird is freaking Delibird. And Alolan Vulpix has awful stats across the board, and practically REQUIRES Sash to live a hit from any decently powerful attacker prior to Aurora Veil, meaning it sacrifices the supremely useful Light Clay.
With that said, I don't think Aurora Veil Hyper Offense will die completely. As I have stated and shown, there are other options available, albeit not as good as the original combo. However, nobody can deny that the viability of this playstyle has taken an immense hit. Pokemon that were used solely to counter Veil, such as Golduck and Lickilicky, will fall out of favor due to their unique talent not being as useful or needed. Veil itself will likely be reduced to nothing more than an uncommon, silly fun playstyle, that most serious PU players likely will not use.
In that regard, I am very excited to see what the meta will look like now. Now that the Aveil cancer shall dissipate, we can now truly pave the way for fun, innovative play and team-building. I participated in the recent PU Beta Workshop, and it was pretty fun. I had to leave mid-way due to my computer battery running out, but still, I had a blast. And while there may still be some things left to clean up, such as the aforementioned Gallade and Musharna, the worst part is over, and these hiccups will be addressed quickly and efficiently in the coming weeks. Here's to a bright and prosperous PU tier!
While I think that Dual Screens is almost undoubtedly stronger now, I think that Jynx still has the potential to be a pretty good Aurora Veil setter, as it is the fastest one that can do it and has a nice SpD stat and SpA to capitalize on, on top of crippling the foe with Lovely Kiss for the guaranteed set-up should you land it. For this reason, while uncommon, I do think that Aurora Veil could see minimal play usage as Jynx in itself can run better sets, however this does allow AVeil to still be relevant as we didn't lose any of the regular boosting sweepers besides Malamar.
Nice post though, and I agree, I am very happy with the way PU beta is shaping out
Made a team cause i liked the core the workshop used but not the team itself :c
SD Absol is an incredibly scary threat as even mons that resist its Stab Knock Off are gonna take a ton on top of losing their item. I opted for the LO set with Sucker because without it the mon is sorta deadweight vs offense. Jolly over Adamant lets me outspeed other Ada Absols and speed tie Jolly ones while also outspeeding neutral base 80s, +speed nature base 70s, and jolly Barbaracle before SS. Fairium Z Musharna covers fighting types that try to revenge Absol as it can absorb non STAB knock offs relatively easily with a z crystal equipped. It also is a decent counter measure to opposing Knock Off Absol and Liepard as Knock does about 65% max and twinkle tackle ohkos both. Next Probopass was added as I needed an incredibly solid bug check. Power Gem is used over Flash Cannon to better check Quiver Dance Vivillion and Eviolite Scyther. 96 speed creeps base 50s. Support Lanturn is used as a good blanket water and electric check and also provides cleric support for the rest of the team. The spread is the one used in NU last gen an explanation can be found here. Swanna gives me a secondary fighting and bug check as well as defog support. Been toying with the spread and item and I've mostly used the offensive spread with lefties for longevity but you can try LO or a more defensive spread if you would like. Scarf Tauros is best revenge killer for my team as it outspeeds almost every setup sweeper in the tier and bops it with proper coverage. Anty went over Scarf Tauros here but Double Edge hits everything that doesnt resist it hard like Liligant and Jynx, EQ is mostly for Barbaracle, and Rock Slide hits setup Zard + Scyther.
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Taunt
a lot of stuff going on; thank god we got rid of malamar and the dumb aurora veil. a bit sad for cincinno since it was fun to use but whatever. however now that qwilfish mesprit and especially vileplume are gone stuff like hitmonchan hariyama primeape gallade (was tricky with this one before as well but now its worse) will see even more usage and can just start spamming close combat, knock off, and punches left and right. so now i, -PUTL HANUDD yours truly, am going to show you the ultimate fighting-type counter, sableye. the set is self-explanatory and is designated to not only absolutely shit on every fighting type this tier has to offer but also deal with physical attackers in general. luckily dark-type physical attackers arent that common and worst case scenario they get their item removed on the switch-in. if u feel brave enough run a set with calm min will o wisp recover and one attack, it could work i guess
sadly this thing is passive and gets bopped by special attackers, which is what i'd take vileplume 100 times over it if i could. even with a defensive set vileplume could run 3 attacks and play around resistances and weaknesses to deal a surprisingly good amount of damage or even rely on that 30% poison chance to wear down the opponent's switch-in. it also had some good resistances to water and electric that could help it take a hit or two.
if ur not a fan just use gourgeist to have oras ptsd or togetic i guess
I've been a little busy with irl stuff and haven't had too much time to fully analyze how beta is so I figured I'd make a post showing my real first look at the drops and rises that came from alpha.
Aurorus + Alolan Sandslash: So I kinda could see this coming because I know a lot of youtubers used veil in their NU Open and I knew that would ultimately influence ladder players to explore them. I'm not sad at all because veil was a really hard thing to play around in alpha, but I'll admit, I did enjoy using it. That being said, I'm sure someone else will come up with a new way to set hail and veil (I'm already looking into other options myself). Malamar: Thank god the squid is gone. I felt like this thing just made teambuilding really hard in alpha because you had to have one of the very few checks we had to beat it. Once it started setting up, it was very hard to beat down. Malamar + veil teams I'm sure will have a nice home in NU and I'm glad they're gone. Typhlosion: I never personally had problems with Typhlosion down here though most of my teams had either their own Typlosion or an AV Hariyama. Though it is a very strong mon and I can see why NU would snatch it up even if there are checks to it. An unprepared team can easily be swept. Vileplume, Qwilfish, Mesprit: I grouped these three together simply because they were the three main fighting checks in the tier. I sometime even played with Qwilfish+Mesprit because they worked so well together with the former getting Intimidate drops and taking Knock Offs while Mesprit could switch into the Zen Headbutts and EQs for Qwilfish. I also ran Moonblast on Vileplume a few times to beat offensive Hitmonchans and the like. I just hope we have enough fighting checks left that they don't become a problem like I think they might. Cincinno: NU once again takes this thing away from us, and I'm not even sure why. It wasn't even that good down here. Granted NU does have more bulky waters that can be chipped by Bullet Seed like Seismitoad and Slowbro, but I still think I'm gonna miss this guy.
Honorable Mention: Sawk: As the first ban of beta and after the loss of those three fighting checks above, I'm glad that Sawk is gone. This thing I'd say is about as strong of a wallbreaker as Typhlosion just on the physical side. Banded Close Combats are almost impossible to switch into unless you are a Qwilfish or a ghost type and with the latter, you're still risking the Knock Off. I just hope that we find better overall fighting checks so that things like Gurdurr, Gallade, Primeape, Hariyama, Throh, and Passimian don't find themselves following Sawk to BL4.
Vivillon: I haven't played with this mon enough to really know how Z-moves have impacted it, though I've seen replays of Supersonic Skystrike being able to plow through would-be checks and let Vivillon just sweep teams. It even has Giga Drain so Quag can't even run Rock Slide to check it. I've noticed people already using Oricorio forms to check the Quiver Dance sweeps this thing can pull off and I'm super happy about that because it seems like exactly what Oricorio is supposed to do. Komala: Komala personally is one of my favorite mons from Gen 7 and was one of my favorites to use in Pre-Alpha games. A lot of people are using Komala as a specially defensive Rapid Spin user and that's all fine and dandy, but I think many people are overlooking the extreme advantage that Komala has as a physical setup sweeper that has priority, fairly good coverage, and can't be burned. I used a Bulk Up 3 attacks set when I used it a few months ago and it was really good (back in the days before I saved my replays or I would post one). Absol: I feel like this thing would be better under veil, but its strong STAB priority and high attack along with SD is borderline busted. I can't see this staying here too long. Can't be burnt by Sableye and a decent speed makes it a huge threat and every team should be prepared for it at this point.
Everyone is thinking that hail is dead when this Pokemon is still in the tier......
Beartic @ Fairium Z
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Play Rough
- Power-Up Punch
- Aqua Jet / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
Something that I've been experimenting with after Sandslash-Alola rose. Personally I think Fairium Z is the best item for it in order to hit bulky Fighting types harder. Power-Up Punch may be super weak but I prefer it over Swords Dance due to actually damaging the opponent, and it kills a weakened Probopass. Aqua Jet is solely to avoid opposing priority moves. Rock Slide/Stone Edge hits Swanna.
But yeah, this Pokemon can be difficult to deal with in Hail, as its coverage and awesome power helps it break through a lot of PU. The best answers to it are bulky water types, notably Lanturn and Gastrodon, but Poliwrath falls to Twinkle Tackle. Certain Fire types are decent answers to it as well, though Monferno and Rapidash must be careful if Beartic has a lot of boosts. Turtonator is a pretty good answer to it though.
This is basically the tier's only weather sweeper right now, although I can see Hippopotas + Lycanroc rising further down the road. I recommend giving it a try.
Everyone is thinking that hail is dead when this Pokemon is still in the tier......
Beartic @ Fairium Z
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Play Rough
- Power-Up Punch
- Aqua Jet / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
Something that I've been experimenting with after Sandslash-Alola rose. Personally I think Fairium Z is the best item for it in order to hit bulky Fighting types harder. Power-Up Punch may be super weak but I prefer it over Swords Dance due to actually damaging the opponent, and it kills a weakened Probopass. Aqua Jet is solely to avoid opposing priority moves. Rock Slide/Stone Edge hits Swanna.
But yeah, this Pokemon can be difficult to deal with in Hail, as its coverage and awesome power helps it break through a lot of PU. The best answers to it are bulky water types, notably Lanturn and Gastrodon, but Poliwrath falls to Twinkle Tackle. Certain Fire types are decent answers to it as well, though Monferno and Rapidash must be careful if Beartic has a lot of boosts. Turtonator is a pretty good answer to it though.
This is basically the tier's only weather sweeper right now, although I can see Hippopotas + Lycanroc rising further down the road. I recommend giving it a try.
One thing I would like to mention: Beartic is strictly better on rain using Swift Swim. It pairs up nicely with other rain sweepers like Kabutops and Ludicolo, helping them break past the many decently tanky Grass types they often struggle against (Ludicolo less so due to Ice Beam). Also, Rain itself nullifies Beartic's Fire weakness.
Everyone is thinking that hail is dead when this Pokemon is still in the tier......
Beartic @ Fairium Z
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Play Rough
- Power-Up Punch
- Aqua Jet / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
Something that I've been experimenting with after Sandslash-Alola rose. Personally I think Fairium Z is the best item for it in order to hit bulky Fighting types harder. Power-Up Punch may be super weak but I prefer it over Swords Dance due to actually damaging the opponent, and it kills a weakened Probopass. Aqua Jet is solely to avoid opposing priority moves. Rock Slide/Stone Edge hits Swanna.
But yeah, this Pokemon can be difficult to deal with in Hail, as its coverage and awesome power helps it break through a lot of PU. The best answers to it are bulky water types, notably Lanturn and Gastrodon, but Poliwrath falls to Twinkle Tackle. Certain Fire types are decent answers to it as well, though Monferno and Rapidash must be careful if Beartic has a lot of boosts. Turtonator is a pretty good answer to it though.
This is basically the tier's only weather sweeper right now, although I can see Hippopotas + Lycanroc rising further down the road. I recommend giving it a try.
Beartic isn't all that amazing nor on weather nor outside of it. That set also looks pretty subpar cause if you're willing to boost your attack you're better off using Swords Dance. Kabutops is a far better physical weathersweeper and being a hailsweeper is quite a small niche, especially since Aurorus and Sandslash left. Gastrodon and Lanturn aren't the only mons that check Beartic. Regirock, Granbull, Weezing, Klinklang the list goes on. Rain is by far the best weather right now even though Mesprit left, the key sweepers are still here.
I think Komala is a dope mon so I made a bunch of different sets for it. All have their own roles and I think this mon is actually really versatile.
Komala @ Assault Vest
Ability: Comatose
Happiness: 0
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Rapid Spin
- Sucker Punch
- U-Turn / Earthquake / Wood Hammer / Other
Most people I've seen talk about Komala in chat like the idea of it using an AV, and it I'd say it's fairly decent, though I think it has better sets. AV has the ability to take more hits on the special side and also functions fairly well as a Rapid Spinner in a similar way to AV Hitmonchan. You have Frustration as your strongest STAB move, Rapid Spin for utility, Sucker Punch for priority and a way to hit ghosts, and your last move can be tailored to hit whatever coverage you need. U-Turn provides some momentum, Wood Hammer is able to handle Golem and Quagsire, and EQ can be used to beat Aggron. The EV spread is to outspeed Aggron and only max attack can OHKO it with EQ after rocks.
If you choose Wood Hammer as your coverage option over EQ, I'd advise running the second EV spread as it still outspeeds Golem while maximizing your bulk and leaving enough Attack to always OHKO physically defensive Quag. You could also run Play Rough to hit Fighting types and Sableye fairly hard, though they likely won't be switching into you well anyway.
Calcs for EV spreads:
252+ Atk Komala Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aggron: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
164+ Atk Komala Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
164+ Atk Komala Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 392-464 (130.2 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A lot of the moves and EVs from now on will be similar to this set so I may reference them later.
Komala @ Leftovers OR Z Crystal(?)
Ability: Comatose
Happiness: 0
EVs: 208 HP / 164 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch
- Wood Hammer / Earthquake / Play Rough
This set is my personal favorite as Bulk Up lets Komala take some weaker physical hits and still fire back with boosted moves. I prefer Wood Hammer on this set as otherwise it can be Recover stalled by Unaware Quag (eventually you beat it anyway but this makes it much less annoying). Moves and EV numbers are explained in set above. This set is also the best against stall imo since it can't be burnt, poisoned, can beat Quag on its own and Foul Play doesn't do an increasing amount. I put a Z-Crystal as a second item option because it could possibly help it break through other things.
This set is made for a more passive role than the others and provides both Rapid Spin and Wish utility. It also has a slow U-Turn to scout and pivot, Toxic for wearing down bulkier things, and it can run Protect over U-Turn to better receive its own Wishes. EV spread is pretty self explanatory but it maximizes Komala's okay special bulk so it can spin more reliably.
I didn't think I'd ever make a banded Komala, but this thing hits like a truck, so I couldn't pass it up. Unfortunately, Komala does have a bit of 4 Move Slot Syndrome in that it has to pick and choose what coverage it wants. I guess you could forego STAB, but a banded Frustration that hits harder than Stoutland seems way too nice. This is the only set I would consider running Shadow Claw on, and that's really just so you don't get locked into Sucker Punch if your opponent predicts it. Max speed max attack makes this a super potent physical attacker.
Komala @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch
- Wood Hammer / Any coverage move listed in the other sets
Swords Dance is another option, though I much prefer Bulk Up because of the added, well, bulk. This set should run a Jolly nature since you're already boosting your attack with sd, and I'd typically run Wood Hammer in the last slot, again, for Quagsire. Though it really is up to user discretion when it comes to the last moveslot.
I hope some of these sets can help you with using this little koala and I just hope this guy doesn't get banned before PU is really here and out of beta.
Despite only being in SM PU for less than 48 hours, Vivillon has already proven to be a dangerous threat. Compound Eyes Sleep Powder in conjunction with Quiver Dance gives Vivillon many setup opportunities, and with a Base 110 STAB Hurricane also boosted by Compund Eyes, Vivillon doesn't require QD boosts to apply pressure to the opposing team. To quote Slar Flar during Pre-Alpha, Vivillon is incredibly restrictive in teambuilding and forces offensive teams to run bulkier answers such as Magmortar and Klinklang, which are still threatened to be 2HKO'd (see calcs). While Stealth Rocks cuts its HP in half, Vivillon has good type synergy with hazard control Pokemon such as Kabutops and Skuntank. For these reasons, I ask the PU Council to quickban Vivillon.
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 145-172 (47.2 - 56%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 145-172 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 246-289 (80.1 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 120-141 (42.7 - 50.1%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Despite only being in SM PU for less than 48 hours, Vivillon has already proven to be a dangerous threat. Compound Eyes Sleep Powder in conjunction with Quiver Dance gives Vivillon many setup opportunities, and with a Base 110 STAB Hurricane also boosted by Compund Eyes, Vivillon doesn't require QD boosts to apply pressure to the opposing team. To quote Slar Flar during Pre-Alpha, Vivillon is incredibly restrictive in teambuilding and forces offensive teams to run bulkier answers such as Magmortar and Klinklang, which are still threatened to be 2HKO'd (see calcs). While Stealth Rocks cuts its HP in half, Vivillon has good type synergy with hazard control Pokemon such as Kabutops and Skuntank. For these reasons, I ask the PU Council to quickban Vivillon.
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 145-172 (47.2 - 56%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 145-172 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 246-289 (80.1 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 120-141 (42.7 - 50.1%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Y'know, Vivillon might have been somewhat manageable this generation if it weren't for Z-moves. Supersonic
Skystrike is just way too volatile, as evidenced by the following calcs:
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 133-156 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (A 4X RESIST, EVERYONE)
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 201-237 (71.5 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 225-265 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Regirock: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Doesn't seem too impressive, but remember, Energy Ball obliterates it afterwards, so Regirock CANNOT switch in directly. You need a sack or a slow U-turn/Volt Switch.)
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 294-346 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Komala seems perfectly fine, and I'm on the fence about Absol, but I fully stand with Boyeraj17 and his stance on Vivillon: It needs to go now. Don't forget, unless you use another party member as sleep fodder, Vivillon can just put it's checks to sleep 98% of the time and whittle them down while they can't do anything back.
Feel free to expand upon the calculations shown here. I may have forgotten to mention some normal checks that get vaporized by Supersonic Skystrike.
With Sawk being gone, Gallade lost some more competition as a fighting-type breaker. Honestly I thought this thing was worse/harder to handle than Sawk, since Psychic typing + SD gives it the ability to just rip through most fighting-type checks without much trouble and the speed is enough to beat most things found on balance. Give this thing 1 free turn to set up SD and anything slower is basically dead. Even Quagsire is 2HKO-ed on the switch by LO CC or (CC followed by Shatter Psyche) and a little chip, so unless you're a god of prediction (or sableye but its gotta watch out for +2 Knock Off), Gallade can put in work in any matchup. (Shadow Sneak is an option for priority but its pretty eh and Knock Off is better).
Hide yo unaware users:
252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thats a minimum of ~90% (leftovers cancels out rocks), so with minor chip quagsire is ded to absolute minimum rolls
252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 149-177 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 115-136 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pyukumuku fares better against Gallade (though you do beat it with LO+Rocks), but with SR or like 10-15% chip you power through it on the switch with Z moves
VS Sableye:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 231-273 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At +2 Sableye switching in on the wrong move actually gets beat (granted probably at the cost of gallade getting burned), and it can't even play the recover stall game as the 2nd Knock Off will outdamage anything recover can do
VS Musharna:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 426-504 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 289-341 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At +2 no Musharna can come in, but Z-Move Barrier Musharna can win in a 1v1.
Gallade is not without flaws, as struggles a bit against offense, however is not complete deadweight as its reasonably bulky and 80 speed might not be superduper fast but its enough to beat most bulkier offensive mons. Psychic typing does have drawbacks like a neutrality to Dark moves like Sucker Punch and Pursuit (ie: Skuntank), but it also has perks like a neutrality to psychic-type attacks which lets you risk staying in against some faster psychic-types that are used as checks on offense. It also struggles vs really bulky psychic-types like Musharna (non Z move/colbur lose if they switch on the SD, but 1v1 Barrier Z-Move Musharna comes out on top), but its ability to just tear through most defensive cores after 1 free turn is kind of ludicrous.
Gallade @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Acid Spray
- Fire Blast
- Defog
Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
I don't claim to be a good teambuilder, but I felt like this team works well around Gallade (gotta get used to teambuilding after vileplume+mesprit got taken away ;___; rip all my alpha teams) and wanted to share it. Skuntank is here to clear Toxic Spikes and hazards as they wear Gallade down too fast, and it also handles ghost/psychic-types that trouble Gallade. Scyther + Raichu provide volt-turn and revenge killing, both drawing out things Gallade can take advantage of (Rock/Steel types for the former and generally slower/bulkier things for Raichu). Golurk was added as a rocker and Electric/Fighting immunity, Earthquake is gud. Hariyama was kind of thrown on at the end as a placeholder so there's probably something better for that slot; I wanted to try out the Flame Orb + Guts set and the 5 other members cover each other pretty well so I thought "eh why not".
Hey guys! Beta has certainly hit hard, and I thought I would be completely blown back by all the sudden changes, but to be honest it seems rather healthy (other than Vivillon spam). I was gonna write an analysis of Absol, but I figured that he is already super powerful and is going to be talked about a lot, so I wanted to direct your attention to a mon that I feel has not been getting enough light for how volatile it can be:
GOLURK
Now, with beta just hitting us we have a ton of new strategies and tricks to play with, but I do think some mons have always been overshadowed even though they are quite good, and this is definitely an example of one. Golurk not only boasts a ridiculous attack stat of 124, but also a completely unique typing, shared only with Palossand, as well as decent HP and Bulk. Golurk is by definition, a double edge sword, with 6 resistances and 5 weaknesses, meaning that it can either by a powerhouse or a lack of power in any given game due to matchups. However, I did want to go over this pokemon due to the way the beta seems to be playing out. I will be going over Golurk's sets with various strengths, Golurk's partners and how he pairs up with other mons to the best extent, as well as notable threats that you should never stay in against. Let's get started. *calcs of each set will be at bottom of post
In my opinion, this is Golurk's best set due to the sheer versatility and role compaction that it brings. Stealth rocks is insanely helpful in any metagame, and now with the induction of Vivillon as well as notable flying pokemon such as Scyther/Charizard/Swanna/Oricorio, Rocks are even more important to be omnipotent on the field. I personally like the 252 speed invested EV's over the HP as there are many notable base 50 mons in the tier, including Aggron, Ursaring, etc., and this helps to outspeed even fully invested ones. This set definitely plays to Golurk's strengths of high attack with 150 power stab Earthquakes as well as Dynamic Punch to keep the Komala and Absol's from hurting you. Golurk can easily beat both Absol and Komala, OHKO-ing with just one Dynamic Punch and the Colbur Berry allows you to live an Absol sucker punch (even a max roll crit) and then fire back which is super nice. Finally, Golurk brings to the table something that no other stealth rocker can say they have, which is a spinblock. Golurk stands out not only as one of the largest attack stats in PU but also as a notable rocker AND spinblocker, allowing it to hard counter Komala (most have not been running shadow claw), and then fire back. As I said before, Golurk's weakness is most certainly it's slow speed coupled with the multiple water, grass, and dark mons we have in the tier, but I believe that you can fit Golurk into a multitude of teams with this set, as an offensively orientated rocker, that allows for great role compaction and pressure.
FISTS OF FURY
Golurk @ Life Orb/Colbur Berry/Iapapa Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/Stealth Rock
Luckily, Golurk has two useable abilities unlike some pokemon in the PU metagame. With Iron Fist, we can multiply our punching moves by 1.2x, giving it an expert belt boost without having to worry about the super effective part. The Item on this set is actually quite dependent on what your team needs. If you are looking for a wallbreaking set, go for Life Orb, giving punching moves like Shadow Punch 60 power x stab x iron fist x life orb, which turns a normally weak move into quite a hard hitting one. If only Dynamic Punch and Iron Fist paired together, that would be quite nice....Anyway, this set aims to help Golurk take on more foes with more coverage options, and the last slot can be subbed for Stealth Rock if you absolutely need the setter. The 216 speed is used to outspeed base 50's like Lanturn and Aggron who don't run a positive nature to offer a bit more bulk with 40 HP, but max/max works just as well from my experience. Thunder Punch is a solid option to hit weak water pokemon, while Drain punch can offer a bit more damage to Normal types as well as healing you. This set as a whole does offer more overall damage than the first one, however it loses the ability to confuse with a 100 power fighting move as well as setting up hazards. From my experience, this set has worked better than the first one when you are building a balance team, and need a bit more power behind something on your team, as the extra damage this set offers can help KO larger threats. Not much more to talk about on this set, as it's pretty standard, but let's move on to some more notable sets that I believe can help in the PU Beta metagame.
OTHER NOTABLE GOLURK SETS
Golurk is truly a robot of many colors in the PU metagame. Before I get into the other sets I wanted to point out the differences between him and his other peers. Golurk sports the highest base attack of any stealth rocker available that is viable, as well as supporting a unique typing with that. Some notable mons that are like this however are Piloswine, which can be fit onto bulkier and more offensive teams and generally can take more hits. When looking at the comparison between Piloswine and Golurk though, I think it is completely fair to say that while Golurk might not be "as meta" right now, it gains a lot of pros over Piloswine. First, it has massively higher attack stat and can do a ton more with a stab earthquake than Piloswine. On top of that, it's coverage is a lot more than just ice+ground that Piloswine has, and this helps it in matchups where it needs to hit opposing mons super effectively in order to kill them. Finally, I think the spinblocking portion alone is HUGE for Golurk, as Stealth Rocks are definitely a giant threat in the PU beta metagame from what I've experienced in alpha, and being able to keep these up all games and force pivots with Golurk's power is unparelled. This devastatingly strong attack though does not come without it's pitfalls. Golurk can barely take most ghost attacks, gets ohko'd by main threats like Choice Scarf Oricorio and Haunter, and has to be careful around Darks if it's Colbur berry is knocked off. This trait, along with the weakness to two common types in water and grass certainly hinder it's ability to always be able to stay in, unlike mons such as Piloswine that can carry evolite and take many hits. Let's get on with the other notable sets though, to show just how versatile this mon can truly be....
Golurk @ Colbur Berry/Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Rock Polish
- Ice Punch
Golurk @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
These sets are pretty self explanatory with the exception of the Z crystal set. Golurk finds itself a niche in PU as well by having a lot of different viable sets. For a more bursting attacker, the Z move version helps a ton with this. All of the calcs for these sets will be at the bottom, but you basically customize what move helps you the most with the Z crystal version. From my experience, the Groundium Z set is very terrifying to go up against, and nothing but flyings and bulky grasses want to switch into it, but often times they don't know it's coming. Meanwhile, the Rock Polish set allows you to not only become a monster with 124 base attack but also gaining 412 speed with this set, which outspeeds everything bar Ninjask and turns you into quite a monster. Finally the Choice Band set is for maximizing your wallbreaking potential, but personally I do not find this set to be efficient to the central idea of Golurk, as your coverage is super unique and being locked into one move on a mon such as Golurk can be detrimental.
PARTNERS, TEAMS, CHECKS & COUNTERS
So, with all this information as well as sets for Golurk being thrown around, I wanted to talk about some notable good partners as well as some teams that I believe Golurk fits well in, and then finally some good checks and counters to Golurk.
Partners:
Golurk is a hard robot to please, and these mons can usually make the large robot smile. Golurk can cover the electric, rock, and normal aspects of these other mons weaknesses pretty well, and Golurk appreciates the aerial support from the first 2, Scyther and Vivillon. Both of these mons can come in and usually tear apart Dark mons such as Absol that threaten Golurk, and appreciate pivoting to Golurk in times of need. Leavanny pairs especially well with Golurk in my opinion, as not only is webs super helpful for Golurk teams, but the added pressure of Mirror Coat as well as Leavanny's strength against the water and other grass mons that threaten out Golurk is pretty handy. Silvally is always a good bet to include, as it allows speed control and pivoting with parting shot, as well as a fantastic mono fairy typing and tons of coverage options to allow you to support your Golurk the best. Gallade helps to cover the ice weakness, as well as Pyroar, and they can both take on much of the grass and water mons that give Golurk lots of trouble. Pyroar in particular appreciates the fighting immunity that Golurk has, and can freely switch in for boosted hyper voices and fire blast.
Teams:
Right now, the meta is super fresh with beta, so it is hard to tell what type of teams fit Golurk in well. I think most of all Offense and Balance do it quite nicely. Golurk appreciates added defensive pivots and hazard removal, as well as a core defensive core to switch out into. When using Golurk, make sure to try to cover his numerous weaknesses in order to pivot when necessary, and it's usually a good idea to pair him with something that can cripple other mons, such as a Sabeleye, so that Golurk can efficiently switch in and either spin block, or fire off hard hitting stab moves. Finally, I do think there is something to be said about the hyper offensive playstyle of Golurk along with Sticky Webs. Both Masquerain and Leavnanny make decent partners to our robot, and the speed control allows Golurk to outspeed many threats as well as acting as a spinblock for the actual webs themselves, making him quite volatile on any webs team paired with a defiant pokemon such as Primeape.
Checks & Counters:
Yes, it's true, Robots can get scared. These mons not only threaten some type of Golurk's design (and there's more such as Piloswine and Jynx, I just wanted to keep it to one line), but can also fire back extremely hard. Oricorio-S and Haunter can often times pivot in on a predicted earthquake and OHKO with Revelation Dance and Shadow Ball respectively, and if Golurk is sent out in front of them it's basically a death sentence. Sableye can wall Golurk's attacks and then proceed to burn him, while Tangela still takes an ice punch rather wall for a ball of vines with shoes. Shiinotic can strength sap for recovery and tank ice punch, and Samurott can hold it's own against many of Golurk's attacks while still being able to fire back with a better speed tier, and Weezing has levitate to help it with the only thing doing much damage back being Zen Headbutt IF you even carry that. This being said though, Golurk still does shine against many other mons, and I think it's a force to be reckoned with
FINAL THOUGHTS
While Golurk isn't seen as the strongest right now, I definitely think there is a lot more to him than people are giving him credit for. I heard someone in the PU Chat lobby saying he was D+ to C- Tier and I was quite appaled. For the role compaction you get in one mon, Golurk truly is great. His attack stat will remain to be the largest among the viable stealth rockers, and his coverage against the new mons like Absol and Komala are great, as well as beating most normal spam cores which are quite common with a single Dynamic Punch, and offering a ground stab to the team coupled with the 124 attack stat, where many opponents do not have a ground check available. These factors on top of a very masterfully designed pokemon gives me hope for Golurk in the PU Beta metagame, and I think he is quite possibly one of the most enthralling pokemon to play around with. I hope you give this article a read, Golurk definitely deserves it, and I hope you enjoy the opening of PU Beta!!!
*Calcs will be edited in, I am super tired and work is hard, but I will add calcs as soon as I can.
Despite only being in SM PU for less than 48 hours, Vivillon has already proven to be a dangerous threat. Compound Eyes Sleep Powder in conjunction with Quiver Dance gives Vivillon many setup opportunities, and with a Base 110 STAB Hurricane also boosted by Compund Eyes, Vivillon doesn't require QD boosts to apply pressure to the opposing team. To quote Slar Flar during Pre-Alpha, Vivillon is incredibly restrictive in teambuilding and forces offensive teams to run bulkier answers such as Magmortar and Klinklang, which are still threatened to be 2HKO'd (see calcs). While Stealth Rocks cuts its HP in half, Vivillon has good type synergy with hazard control Pokemon such as Kabutops and Skuntank. For these reasons, I ask the PU Council to quickban Vivillon.
The thing about Vivillon is that it's pretty susceptible to being revenge killed. I realize that it is very difficult to switch into, but a lot of offensive teams already have Pokemon that can come in and threaten it. Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Tauros, Raichu, Primeape, and Oricorio(any form) can outspeed and revenge kill Vivillon pretty easily. From there, there are priority users, such as Kangaskhan, Lycanroc, Kecleon (rare but still effective), Zangoose, Metang (pretty weak but still could work), Hariyama, Piloswine, Abomasnow, etc. which can revenge kill Vivillon. Additionally, there are other Pokemon that can deal with it, such as Focus Sash Kadabra, Liepard (Encore or Thunder Wave), Magmortar (if not Z crystal), Eelektross, Regirock (if not energy ball), Klinklang etc. And this is only after Vivillon has boosts, which can be a struggle against any faster mon, displaying how common Pokemon on offensive teams can already check Vivillon.
From here, I'd like to add onto the discussion by talking about an offensive core that I've been playing around with:
+
Vanilluxe and Barbaracle are very good complementary Pokemon in the current metagame, which I have used to some solid success. Vanilluxe is able to take on Grass-types, Bulky Water-types, and Ferroseed with its coverage, and break Sturdy with Snow Warning, however it struggles with Bulky Ice-types and Fire-types, which is where Barbaracle comes in. Barbaracle is a solid late-game sweeper on its own, which really appreciates its answers being weakened by Vanilluxe. Both are also decent checks to Vivillon (Vanilluxe outspeeds w/o a boost and Barb can take most attacks w/o boosts).
The main problem with this core is Fighting-types and Fighting-type priority. Gurdurr, Hariyama, and Hitmonchan are all fearsome threats, so good partners to pair with this core are the likes of Psychic-types and Fairy-types. Kadabra is notable as it doesn't take damage from Vanilluxe's hail, is a great revenge killer, and can take on Sableye with Dazzling Gleam.
Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Poison Jab
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Additionally, Cro Muk seems a lot more useful in a metagame without Mesprit, Malamar, and Typlosion. While I haven't had much time to test with it, it has been effective in the games that I have. It appreciates Pursuit Trapping, especially from the likes of Absol, which can also damage Steel-types with Superpower. Additionally, it pairs fairly well with Gallade, which can check Steel-types with its Fighting-type STAB. Gallade and Absol also appreciate Muk's solid matchup against Pokemon such as Togetic, Hitmonchan, etc.
Edit: Muk also seems to have a pretty solid matchup against Vivillon, not minding Sleep Powder, 2HKOing, only being 2HKOed by a comination of +1 Hurricane and Supersonic Skystrike.
Hello everyone! PU seems to be shaping up pretty nicely. I've been enjoying building and testing teams in the meta- it reminds me of ORAS NU with the dominant mons being mostly from NU, but it's a bit more interesting (imo) in terms of mons and strategies. However, there are more than a few problems which make the meta much more difficult to build and play with than it needs to be. HJAD already covered some of the tier's biggest threats in his post, but I wanted to talk specifically about speed-boosting setup sweepers. One of the big differences between these sweepers now and in ORAS is the access to z-moves. Z-moves make it possible for pokemon like Klinklang and Vivillion to just bludgeon through more than half of their checks and counters after a single boost. These mons are dominating the meta and making it unhealthy because there are just so many of them. It is becoming hard to build balanced and offensive teams without very specific checks, whether it is the exactly right kind of priority or the speediest of Choice Scarf users. And even if you are able to cover one of these pokemon, you may get 6-0ed by another. Therefore, I think the following pokemon need to be looked at.
--
Boyeraj and other posters already covered Viv, and I agree with them that it is fairly broken. Flying STAB is already great in a metagame with so few good steel-types, and being able to boost that STAB with quiver dance and a Z-move is pretty over the top. Compoundeyes Sleep Powder adds to the insult by making setting up with Vivillion incredibly easy, and Vivi can abuse it with sets like Sash or Sub+QD to setup multiple times. Vivi does have some major flaws in being weak to rocks and physically frail enough that any non-fighting priority severely threatens it, but this is not enough to keep it from being too much for the tier. Probably Ban
Checks/Counters: Stealth rocks, some electric types such as Lanturn and E-vire, though they have to be at full. Bulky rock-types like Regirock and Cradily. Sleep immune pokemon like Magmortar, Bouffalant but +1 Z-move is scary regardless. Most priority, especially Ice Shard.
--
Lilligant is similar to Vivillion in that it abuses QD + Sleep Powder, but it sets up on different mons. Lilligant already has decent special bulk and no weakness to hazards, so setting up with it is fairly easy. Lilligant will almost always find one opportunity to QD per match, and with access to Giga Drain it can keep itself healthy and avoid being picked off by priority or special Scarf users. Luckily, grass coverage is not all that great but Lilli can beat its checks and counters even then, depending on what Hidden Power it runs, or powerful Z-moves like Z-hyper beam (or it can just cheese past them with Sleep Powder). One of the things with Lilli is that opponents can try to play around Sleep Powder and then go to a grass resist, but if the opponent predicts properly they might just take the opportunity to Quiver Dance another time. Probably Ban
Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain / Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder / Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]
my slashes for the set are probably suboptimal but I think you guys will get the general idea
Checks/Counters: Sleep Powder immune pokemon such as Bouffalant, Drampa, Miltank. Fire types all can check but have to be careful of Sleep Powder except for Magmortar. Ice Shard Priority from Piloswine / Abomasnow. Other grass resists like Skuntank, Muk, Guzzlord. Scarf pokemon faster than 90 speed. Sleep Powder missing. Oricorios. Probably Ban
--
Klinklang sets up the easiest of all the setup sweepers due to its fantastic natural bulk and array of resistances from being a Steel-type. While Klinklang was easy to check defensively in previous years, Z-moves have taken it to a whole another level. With Steelium Z or Normalium Z, Klinklang can simply power past most of the fire, water, and ground-type pokemon that would have taken a hit. Klinklang still retains some hard checks that are fairly common, like Ferroseed, but in my opinion it is far too reliable a sweeper to be left alone with right now. Ban
Klinklang @ Steelium Z / Normalium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Return
- Substitute / Magnet Rise / Wild Charge
*speed is for Scarf Primeape but can creep more
Checks/Counters: Mach Punch with Hitmonchan/Gurdurr, bulky waters such as Lanturn, Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Pyukumuku, Ferroseed, bulky ground types like Torterra and Mudsdale, Will-o-Wisp with Sableye
--
Barbaracle- Our old banned friend from XY/ORAS is back... and stronger than ever. Because people are busy preparing for other more common threats, it is easy to forget about this pokemon and quickly be on the wrong end of a sweep. Barbaracle has great coverage with just two moves, and relatively solid bulk means it is a solid and consistent late-game cleaner. Z-moves have made Barbaracle much stronger now that it can blow past bulky pokemon like Granbull or Torterra that would normally take it on. However, Barbaracle is fairly vulnerable to priority and can struggle to setup without a White Herb, and it can lack power when not using a Z-move. Wait for now, possible suspect in future
Barbaracle @ White Herb / Waterium Z / Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Return / Superpower / Grass Knot
as usual, the set and slashes are far from perfect but should give a general idea of what this mon can run
Checks/Counters: Quagsire/pyukumuku, other bulky waters such as Gastrodon, Mach Punch priority, bulky Grass-types like Gourgeist and Ferroseed (depending on coverage), Will-o-Wisp from Sableye, and 90+ speed Scarf users if Adamant nature
--
I thought this pokemon was perfectly fine at first, but the more I play with it the more unbalanced it seems. Charizard separates itself from every other pokemon in the tier because of its incredible versatility. It can run many sets, but Z-moves alone have offered it four viable options of boosting its Speed and attempting a sweep on the opponents team. If rocks are off the field, Charizard should not have too much trouble setting up due to its unique typing that gives it resistances to Fighting, Fire, and Grass and a crucial immunity to Will-o-Wisp. Z-Celebrate lets Charizard boost all of its stats and can be a nightmare to face for offense with Roost, becoming bulky and powerful at the same time. Dragon Dance with Firium Z and Z-Sunny Day turn Charizard into absolute nukes from the physical and special side respectively. The good news with playing against Charizard though, is that it cannot run all of these sets at once, and there should usually be some sort of pokemon to check it. Additionally, getting Rocks off the field is easier said than done- setting up with SR up is hard when you don't have something like Sleep Powder to act as a buffer. Wait for now, possible suspect in future.
Charizard @ Firium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash / Roost
Charizard @ Normalium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Roost
Checks/Counters: Pretty much all bulky waters excluding Lanturn. Other fire resists such as Regirock, Golem, Drampa, Miltank, and Guzzlord. Bulky physical tanks and bulky special tanks in general.
There is also Turtonator, but despite being a good pokemon, I didn't feel that it was quite deserving of a suspect test.
******
Anyway, since I made this long of a post, I figured I might as well use it to dump some teams! Most of these are pre-Beta teams but they all still work in the metagame so I hope you guys can enjoy.
(pom-pom) https://hastebin.com/kiwisafadi.diff
weird semistall I made with bulk up/rest/sleep talk/knock off Hariyama and Taunt + Toxic Pom Pom. Dibs The Dreamer has used this team a lot more than me so he asked me to drop it
https://hastebin.com/yoleqaquda.diff
a really fun balance team i made based around Specs Samurott and DD Zard. Triple Priority makes up for a lack of a Choice Scarfer.
https://hastebin.com/misupusemi.diff
a very standard and cookie-cutterish balanced team with Volt-turn, Gallade won't probably last too long but oh well
(pom-pom) https://hastebin.com/uraduloyih.diff
I built this Dual Screens HO in about 5 minutes but it's been handing me wins easily. You can swap up the pokemon for more standard ones like Barb/Klinklang/etc and I'm sure it will work just as well or better. The potency of such a strategy just goes to show that it wasn't Aurora Veil that was broken in of itself, but that our setup sweepers are just insane when they have a lot of support to back them up.
Alright so before any more quickbans happen and the meta shifts more, I'd like to share a team that has been really effective for me over the past few days (just won a room tour whoo!). Anyways, with Malamar, Qwilfish, and Mesprit leaving, and the introduction of Vivillon, space has been left for Muk to reenter the PU metagame. I took this as an opportunity to build around CroMuk, which has been very effective as a late-game cleaner and a good switch-in to Special attacks (bar Psychic). I decided to form a defensive core with Sableye, which readily checks most Physical Attackers in the metagame. From this point, I felt I needed one more part to add to the core so I added Komala, which serves as a Spinner, a bulky pivot, a secondary Special switch-in, a solid Sableye answer, and a Ghost immunity. From here, I realized that Steel-types could be a problem and that I needed Stealth Rock, so I added Probopass, which also served as another pivot and another answer to Special Attacks that Muk and Komala can't handle. I realized at this point that I might need some speed, and a strong physical attacker with U-turn, so I decided on Scyther, which also helped Sableye with the Fighting-type matchup. Finally, I added Choice Specs Lanturn as an Offensive pivot and a potential Lure, which could readily surprise threats to CroMuk with Hydro Pump or Ice Beam.
Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Poison Jab
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Overall, this team fairs pretty well against most top-tier threats, so I decided I would elaborate on how each Pokemon/Playstyles is accounted for:
So this team has a pretty solid matchup against Vivillon. Muk can 2HKO it with Poison Jab and doesn't mind Sleep, Sableye can Taunt it before it boosts, Komala can take hits with AV, Probopass can take hits well, and Scyther can outspeed without a boost.
Lilligant just loses to Muk, but the rest of the team can deal with it as well. Probopass and Komala can take hits well, Scyther outspeeds without a boost, and Sableye can Taunt it.
Probopass is my main answer for this as it can trap it with Magnet Pull, take hits, and take it down with Earth Power (non Magnet Rise). Probopass can run HP Fire to better take on Steel-types as well. Additionally, Lanturn has a decent matchup if it's not Z-Normal and can dish out a heavy punch. Sableye can Taunt and Wisp as well.
Barbaracle and Carracosta are rather large threats to this team, especially if they are able to get a Shell Smash off. Sableye can Wisp and Taunt it, Lanturn may be able to take a hit at high Health, but that's about it. If you have any suggestions to help this matchup it would help a bunch.
Sableye is easily the best answer to Gallade in the tier, and does a very good job of keeping it contained. Scyther can revenge kill it, and Lanturn can probably get a hit off against it.
The gameplay against Musharna is really get Scyther in and hit it as hard as you can. If it's not running Dazzling Gleam/Z Fairy, Sableye can wall it with Taunt and Lanturn can hit it for a large chunk of damage if it doesn't have many boosts.
Sun is actually pretty easy to beat with this team provided you have the right Pokemon alive to take on the right threats. Muk takes on Victreebel pretty easily, and Komala can take on Exeggutor. Here's a replay against sun: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pubeta-614929531
Probopass is the best answer to Scyther, especially if it doesn't have Brick Break. Additionally, Sableye can burn it and Taunt it if it's an SD variant.
Pyroar is primarily checked by Probopass, although Muk and Komala fair well against it due to their high SpD. Scyther can revenge kill it and Lanturn can take a hit or two against it.
Jynx is a pretty cool Pokemon in the metagame, although Probopass and Komala can take it on very well. Komala is immune to Lovely Kiss and can deal a strong amount of damage, while Probopass doesn't take much damage from either of its STAB moves.
Sableye loses one on one against Komala, which can 2HKO it with Flash Cannon. Additionally, Probopass and Lanturn can do chunks of damage against it with their Special Attacks
Hitmonchan is easily beaten by Sableye and Hariyama can't really do much against it, although Sableye can't really damage Hariyama. Scyther can easily take both of them on and OHKO them with Aerial Ace.
Absol is pretty tricky to manage as depending on its coverage (Superpower and/or Play Rough), although it is fairly manageable. Probopass has a good matchup against it if it isn't carrying Superpower, and Scyther is able to outspeed and kill it. Muk can also take hits because of Sticky Hold, meaning that Knock Off won't do much if it's not boosted by Swords Dance.
Note: I lack a Z-move so if anyone could find a cool set to put onto this team it'd be much appreciated
