Metagame np: DOU Stage 1 - Safe and Sound | Jirachi Banned! (Read New Suspect System Thoroughly)

[Pocket]

My only recommendation is probably lengthen the suspect period by including Thursday (Thurs + Fri + Sat + Sun). It's still about half the length of a traditional suspect ladder, and it also addresses the ladder accessibility issue that people were complaining about, as some people have busy weekends.

 

[Laga]

I'm evidently not going to be a voter, since I was sick as shit this weekend throughout, but I'll just quickly post this to keep people's minds open

The whole "get rachi out of here" circlejerking consensus is getting out of hand. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I definitely am saying that every single post in this thread that is for a ban has been taken out of a realistic context and bloated to proportions that simply don't match Doubles OU.

If this Pokemon were truly broken and counterplay was miniscule, it would not fall below top 10 in usage, and it definitely would not have such an average win rate. Sure, 56% is better than average, but compared with other threats, this is absolutely not a statistic that shows Jirachi to be too strong. Again, this doesn't mean Jirachi isn't worth banning, but it quite clearly paints a picture in which Jirachi isn't broken. Practice isn't the same as theory, and SPL has the best stats to go off of. Those are not broken stats.

 

[GenOne]

This system is a test and we will keep trying to improve it if possible so feedback is encouraged. Feel free to post below.
1. If you laddered for the suspect what did you think about the quality of the ladder? (quality of team compositions, # of jirachis seen)

I initially thought that the reqs were overboard. I began laddering on the first Saturday that the suspect was announced, and my experience was that 4-5 games were against top-tier players that I was, at best, evenly matched against. So I was a bit frustrated that I needed to achieve an essential winrate of 4-1 or 5-1 against players that I was, by definition, evenly matched against at best.

However in retrospect, I probably just laddered at an especially busy time. Looking at the ladder from Sunday onwards, I think it actually struck the right balance, and looking at the users that made reqs, it looks like there was a good turnout of people that made reqs and I think the reqs as they stood did an excellent job at rooting out the kinds of people we don't want voting on these suspects.

The one thing I will say is that if there's gonna be a suspect that involves a weekend-only session over two weekends, it would be good to announce it at least a week in advance. If anything made me salty, it was the fact that I found out on a Friday evening that I had that weekend and the next to make reqs, when I already had other plans on the go.

But, overall, I think the new system is a huge step forward and the results speak for themselves. I feel pretty confident that everyone that made reqs deserves to have a vote.

Fwiw, now that the suspect ladder is over, i miss the quality of the suspect ladder :I

 

[Mizuhime]

i'm not really going to share my thoughts on rachi because I need to go to bed but i'm quickly going to share my thoughts regarding the suspect system.

For the intended purpose of creating a better, more competitive ladder you succeeded in a way. I didn't really run into anyone notable on my journey, kami? once, shaian once, grand empress twice, and someone for my very first game whose name escapes me. So yes the idea of forcing people to ladder at similar times did create some better matches, but not as many as you would have hoped, I think.

My biggest qualm with the ladder is restricting it to weekends isn't exactly, for lack of a better term, smart. I can only speak for myself but i'm often far more busy on weekends than I am on weekdays. Social things, SPL weekends, and hell not that I do it but VGC is a thing that takes play generally on weekends. If you plan to continue with this system at least give some weekdays too. In general I don't like the time restraints on laddering, it makes laddering for suspects this one especially, much more "grindy" than it should be. I had to do it all in one day basically and that's what I ended up doing. My internet was also shaky making it much more of a risk to finish laddering, and almost forcing me to restart as a result.

 

[Idyll]

Votin' time! If you're in the list, you qualified to vote on Jirachi.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-dou-stage-1-suspect-voting.3598253/

 

[Fran]

i dont really feel like making a long post since braverius, kamikaze and laga in his last post covered pretty much everything there is to point out in the rachi case. still id like to share the reasoning on why im voting no ban.
first off i think its important to notice how rachi beeing gone will negativly impact the metagame, while im awere that we shouldnt concider this as an inti-ban argument since its quite obvious that we can ban all the broken stuff afterwards/play in a bad meta rather than use broken to check broken. still i think its an important to acknowledge the negative aspects of getting rid of rachi so we only vote ban only when we think its truly broken. what i believe will happen if we ban jirachi:

- overcentralization around checking lele, with aegislash and metagross-mega beeing its only good checks (good meaning both viable and consistant in checking lele). it will still likely get a kill atacking the slot next to the steel type checking it making it extremly effective againt most offensive teams (that cant afford to run a 2nd sudo-lele check)

- offensive salamence teams will struggle to deal with rain, mostly ludicolo, beeing forced to run passive options like zapdos or niche mons like ferrothorn or genesect

- semi trick room teams loosing almost all of its viablity since they will likely fall to lele (especially the z move ones) if they lack metagross and loose its only consistant setter (good luck setting up hoopa without redirection)

maybe im going to repeat what braverius said already but theres many more problematic mons running around and rachi is one of the positive things keeping everything in check, while im sure you can built some great teams without it, still its a key member on most fast teams, its passive nature allows to check and take advantage of it, still amazing bulk, redirection and speedcontrol make it one of the best mons currently. i think its tought to find the right balance in how good the support mon can be, but i dont really see how it pushes anything off the edge or creates any other problems. i feel like if we want to get rid of something that is as big part of the metagame as rachi is we should have a really good reason behind it.

my biggest problem with the pro-ban arguments its that they never show accual examples of jirachi winning games in an unheatly manner, rather theorymon about how it on paper makes set up sweepers broken (my favourite case is azumarill that people seem to have the most issues, somehow it hasnt seem much success in spl, seasonals or during dlt laddering). i just feel like we should play around with it longer and when it starts to be an accual problem than suspect it. its just the beggining of the new metagame and id much rather see how it plays out than ban it just because we didnt like it in oras. and i can promise you, with the current council even if we decide not to ban it now we will get a couple more opportunities along the way.

 

[DaWoblefet]

Since I'm a VGC player who plays DOU casually, I wouldn't weigh my opinion too heavily, but nevertheless:

1. If you laddered for the suspect what did you think about the quality of the ladder? (quality of team compositions, # of jirachis seen)

Compared to last year's Azumarill suspect test, the ladder was immensely more competitive, but I still had poor distribution of those quality games. I did the majority of my laddering on Saturday the first weekend and Friday afternoon the second weekend, and there was a noticeable drop in quality on the second weekend compared to the first, despite my ELO being higher. In general, on Friday I would play about one good team every three games or so, with my other two being stuff like 1200s mono-Ice teams that only threatened Blizzard freezes. As a result, I tried to delay laddering in an effort that more people would hop on, but I really just didn't play many of the people who actually got reqs throughout the tournament (unless I'm bad at knowing people's ladder alts). I have no idea if that just reflects the time I played, the fact that I was already about halfway to COIL goal after the first weekend's worth of laddering, I was dodging all the DOU players, or something else.

I used Jirachi for the first half of my laddering, then switched off to a Zygarde Zard team for the second half. I mention that specifically because I think using those teams helps drive confirmation bias that Jirachi isn't nearly as good as I think it's being made out to be in this thread. Assuming I'm not biased (hopefully), I think people are starting to learn how to use Zygarde and Hoopa, Heatran and Lando are still around, and Kang primarily using Seismic Toss now means Jirachi is much less effective at stalling it for its partners. Amoonguss dying off + new super Sitrus mechanics give it extra strength, but it otherwise isn't doing anything new this generation. A well-timed, well-executed win con of Jirachi + sweeper requires skill and timing to carry out, as in an intelligent player won't just let you go "hurr durr Follow Me Dragon Dance". To me, that takes up issue with Follow Me as a move, not Jirachi, though obviously the typing and the probable flinch are what make it especially good as redirection in the first place. On a personal level, anything that beats random HO crap is a good thing to me, and Jirachi buys time for speed control or setup to check stuff that normally requires 50/50s to beat. If Jirachi's banned and Lele gets suspected, I'm 100% voting that thing out, but as for Jirachi, I don't see it as an unhealthy component from my experience in the Gen VII DOU metagame.

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

My Evaluation of the Suspect Process

Hello Kamikaze,

You asked for feedback regarding the changed in the suspect process. These changes brought a more competitive ladder for sure but a competitive ladder is not the main objective of suspecting a Pokemon. I’m proposing a new system that changes the way we determine the voting population.

Let’s take a look at what Singles UU has been doing. A permanent council plus a rotating council decides on whether to ban a pokemon or not. I am in agreement with the logic I see behind this:

1) They ensure only players who are truly invested in the meta-game decide its fate

2) They ensure that only the most highly skilled players are making decisions

3) They are semi-inclusive to people who are active in community and skilled, through the rotating council.

4) They make decisions quickly.

Even with the ladder more competitive it is far from the optimal solution on determining skill and more importantly knowledge of the meta-game at a high level of play. We are more inclusive but the due the time constrains needed increases the competitiveness of the ladder we lost several really valued members of the DOU community. This process didn’t take too long but the time certainly could have been better spent.

I want us to achieve the same objectives that Singles UU does. But let’s not just rip off their strategy; let’s improve upon that. I guess it’s important to point out why I am against using Single UU’s process:

1) Even their council size of 12 people per vote is too small to represent the community. Statistics teach you that the sample size should be at least 30

2) If someone is good enough to vote once why rotate them off for someone else? Why not just have all the qualified people vote? My guess is that its speeds things up. For Doubles OU, speeding the process up is not as big as a concern.

3) The part of the council is not rotating. There is some shakiness in trust between Doubles Council and the Community. Dawg is still on council after and has not posted on smogon in over 5months, and has not participated in tour in even longer. There are great active players who could fill that role and really deserve that recognition. Among other trust issues we can save for another discussion.

So let’s determine our voting population off of tour performance and activity. These are objective metrics and easy to determine. They shouldn’t be too difficult for decent player from an outside tier to meet as long as they put in the effort.

Here it is, simple yet flexible

1) Have won X battles within the last two DOU circuit tours. Circuit tours are accessible to everyone and have a high level of play. Choosing over the past 2 circuit tours mean you can miss a circuit tour and still make reqs. This metric is the most flexible way to increase or decrease the amount of skill you want voters to possess

2) Have participated in at least one Doubles forum tour over the past year. This is really easy and shows that the player is not simply a tournament player but is invested in the meta. This should lead to increasing number of participants in our tours. This includes everything from DTL and DUU tours to DPL.

3) Have posted at least ocne in doubles forum in the past 4 months. Voters should contribute to the community; some people are quiet but this is not much to ask for. Also players cannot rush to post just to make reqs.

This will give us people who are actively involved in doubles and care about whether the mon should be banned or not. Its accessible to everyone on smogon. And its adjustable to the amount of skill you want based on X number of circuit tour wins.

This picture conveys the benefits much better than I can write it. You’ll see players that would have been included in the Jirachi Suspect if my idea was used and players that are excluded. Overall you can see that net-net my idea leads to players who are more proven and more active. And I used the bare minimum requirement of 1 win in either of the last two seasons. Increase that requirement if you want but it may not even be necessary. Yes, it shows some notable players would have been excluded such as Zach who could easily make reqs by participating in DPL or some other forum tour; Pocket would be included in my idea if he wins a seasonal battle. But we gain many other players who missed the suspect because in time was cut short to make the ladder more competitive; we really don’t need these guys to prove they deserve a vote by going through the ladder.

Players on left did not make reqs but would under my idea. players on right made reqs but would not under my idea. players in middle make reqs under both systems

 

[miltankmilk]

Suspect test manifesto

You blocked me on discord but I have questions and I won't even be mean. If what you're proposing is some kind of doubles Congress where its basically everyone in the community gets a say, maybe theres a skill portion to this too you weren't sure, then this seems very isolationist to me. How does this accommodate newcomers? Participating in 2 seasonals takes, well 2 seasons, and now this year potentially longer if you are new in the summer when there isn't a seasonal? Obviously we want voters to know their stuff and be educated on the suspect but we shouldn't be actively discouraging new players.

Secondly this is a very hands on approach for, in general, a metagame which does not see a whole lot of change from beginning to end. Comparatively speaking we have far fewer bans than OU or any lower tier and I don't think this constant, hands-on approach is really necessary so why do you think its necessary (real question, not rhetorical)?

This wasn't totally clear but because you brought up the idea of a rotating council I imagine this larger council (legislature) that you mention would not be the same thing as the council. Regardless of whos on it and whether or not you agree with them being on it, its hard to argue that there should be ~30 people on a council because thats a lot of voices for what is essentially just an advisory role to the TLs. Also I don't get why you make distinctions between subforum tours and circuit tours, does it really matter which tours your playing in if you are playing in DOU tours on smogon? Like Zach shouldn't be excluded from this hello? He plays ~9 SPL games every year which is the highest level of DOU we have.

 

[Fran]

uu is so much diffrent as they need to handle drops every month. im sure you would love to have a suspect every couple days just to have something to post about oo. still i cant see why would you want to aply this system to any overused format. i really dont like how you throw out your ideas without sharing any logical reasoning behind them. for example why do you believe someone 'truly invested' into the doubles format will make a better decision that only joins official smogon tournaments? why do we need our decision faster? how do statistic show that we need 30 (lol!) not 12 members of the council? why do you prefer forums activity over accual ability to play and metagame knowleage? i everyone participating in the doubles tournaments would love it increase the number of players competing but what does this have to do with suspect testing? also i love how you mentioned not allowing braverius to vote in your new system, i think stupid callouts made in this ignorant manner give you all the (negative) attention you desperatly seem to need. i believe you could acomplish the same thing (without the negative energy) if you tried to improve your posts by listening what others have to say too and reread before you share everying that you have on your mind.

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

I win X games within the last two DOU circuit tours. Meaning you can win say, 2 games for arguments sake, in during last seasonal, the seasonal before that or 1 in each. So if you miss one seasonal you can still get enough wins the the other
Thats gonna lead some people to say well winning 2 total battles over the past two seasonals combined isnt proving skill very much. To that I say look at my picture, we gain far more skill than we lose even with a very small number of win requirements. And we could up those win requirements to any number

yeah we have far fewer bans which means the very few pokemon we do suspect we better get right.

I'm not in favor of rotating council. I thought I made its clear that I like the idea behind it, which is to limit the voters to the most skilled and active players in the meta game.
I think we can achieve get the correct pool of active and skilled players with objective metrics. not subjectively which a council consists of

I like the idea of sub-forum tours as its an extra requirement that demonstrates you are a core member of doubles ou. its also accessible to anyone that wants to make reqs. maybe we could say DOU participation in SPL can count toward this. Also if this system was in place and Zach knew about it he may have participated in a forum tour at some point during the year

 

[kamikaze]

Just pointing out that Zach has entered every seasonal over the past year and made it to finals in one of them. He gets overlooked a lot for some reason, so he would actually still get reqs under your system

EDIT: Apparently you say Zach wont qualify because he joins circuit tours but not main forum tours. DPL is once a year. Some people simply cant make it, or dont want to join because its a different environment, or they just dont get drafted or play for w/e the reason. As for mini tours I personally dont join minitours, except for the fun team ones like girafirag cup, and there are plenty of others like Zach who simply join the big tours aka seasonals. I dont think lack of participation in forum tours should be a factor that immediately weeds you out

 

[Checkmater]

my biggest problem with the pro-ban arguments its that they never show accual examples of jirachi winning games in an unheatly manner, rather theorymon about how it on paper makes set up sweepers broken (my favourite case is azumarill that people seem to have the most issues, somehow it hasnt seem much success in spl, seasonals or during dlt laddering). i just feel like we should play around with it longer and when it starts to be an accual problem than suspect it. its just the beggining of the new metagame and id much rather see how it plays out than ban it just because we didnt like it in oras. and i can promise you, with the current council even if we decide not to ban it now we will get a couple more opportunities along the way.

re-fucking-tweet

This man only has one like but I GAVE THAT LIKE GLADLY yall nignogs need to actually read the posts instead of being afraid of walls of texts

Also echoing what Laga posted. Really? Do you all really think #11 on spl usage list merits a suspect, much less a ban?

I highly doubt that imma wake up in 2-3 days with Jirachi out of the metagame but might as do my civic duty and argue my case!

First off, nearly none of Finally's points have been substantively addressed. While it was last page and a couple days ago, I encourage any voters to really read through his post and ask themselves if his points have been countered in any meaningful way.

Shay's post is mainly baseless conjecture on how Jirachi makes the meta balance-oriented (read: ho sucks because TR and other factors, not just Jirachi)
Quick point-by-point rebuttal:
-Salamence-Mega is far from needing more checks. Flying resists are relatively easy to come by and they punish mence quite hard momentum-wise
-Those mons are still Salamence checks. Jirachi isn't always next to mence and at full hp
-The existence and success of non-Jirachi setup not only demonstrates its viability, but also shows that Jirachi has a legitimate cost that is outlined more thoroughly in Finally's post. Those teams' ability to function without Jirachi demonstrates that including Jirachi on your team is a cost. It wasn't that they just decided not to use Jirachi, it was that substituting something else for Jirachi or restructuring their team to not include Jirachi had very obvious benefits. I would be very converned if every zygarde was almost 100% accompanied by a Jirachi, but this is clearly not the case.

rest of post mainly addresses meta thoughts on Tapu Lele, which aren't really relevant to suspect at hand.

All in all, voting no ban. Not enough of a threat, easy counterplay, keeping important things in check, not really forcing out x playstyle/x mons. The very fact that a lot of succesful teams are just opting to not use a Fire-type demonstrates that Jirachi is nowhere near the meta threat it was last gen.

 

[shaian]

Shay's post

Shay's

S

ò_ó

 

[GenOne]

If what you're proposing is some kind of doubles Congress where its basically everyone in the community gets a say, maybe theres a skill portion to this too you weren't sure, then this seems very isolationist to me. How does this accommodate newcomers?

This is key, tbh. The DOU community isn't exactly growing at a staggering pace, and these suspects seem to be one of the few times "outsiders" actually come in to play the meta.

This suspect wasn't perfect but it's a step in the right direction overall, and honestly suspect systems aren't the right tool to address DOU community involvement anyway; that's really a standalone issue that needs to be addressed separately.

On that note (and I don't want to derail this thread but there's nowhere else to post this anyway), I'm just spitballing here, but what if the forums had a few resources dedicated to helping singles players transition into the meta? Idk, maybe teambuilding tutorials, voice-over videos of DOU mains playing mid-level games and talking about their thought process, etc. etc. There are probably other better solutions that aren't my half-baked ideas, too. But I guess what I'm saying is our forums (and even the DOU room for that matter) are great for up-and-comers that already understand doubles, but I'm not sure a singles player could immediately creep through the DOU forum and learn the game. The learning curve for DOU can be stiff especially since our ladder isn't that great.

There are also the VGC players, but imo they already understand doubles, it's just what's the draw of DOU when VGC is already more popular?

But tl;dr, I think the best solution to increasing the quality of suspects is just increasing the quantity of quality users :/

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

Just pointing out that Zach has entered every seasonal over the past year and made it to finals in one of them. He gets overlooked a lot for some reason, so he would actually still get reqs under your system

EDIT: Apparently you say Zach wont qualify because he joins circuit tours but not main forum tours. DPL is once a year. Some people simply cant make it, or dont want to join because its a different environment, or they just dont get drafted or play for w/e the reason. As for mini tours I personally dont join minitours, except for the fun team ones like girafirag cup, and there are plenty of others like Zach who simply join the big tours aka seasonals. I dont think lack of participation in forum tours should be a factor that immediately weeds you out

We can think through ways so that a guy like him would not be excluded while having a certain level of skill and activity required which is what I am really getting at.
Included DOU SPL as a way to meet that. Or allow old guys to be grandfathered in after placing top 3 in a seasonal and have played DOU for 2+ years.

The sub-forum requirement is my idea for activity measurement in DOU while circuit tour wins is the skill level requirement.
we can have a long think of the best ways to do suspects if people are open to sharing their ideas and arrive at something better. right now I'm not hearing ideas from other people.

 

[Mizuhime]

n1n1's system says I would make reqs because I simply played in DPL last year, but I only played BW doubles and haven't played a tournament game of current gen yet. Excluding someone like zach who plays at nothing but the highest level when he does play is stupid and a bad idea. He's in SPL and does well, he does well in every tour he enters. I played 5 games of BW doubles so that means i'm suddenly more qualified than zach to vote? da fuck is wrong with that picture.

I agree that smogon's system sucks. but n1n1's idea's are not the proper way to fix it

 

[Checkmater]

On that note (and I don't want to derail this thread but there's nowhere else to post this anyway), I'm just spitballing here, but what if the forums had a few resources dedicated to helping singles players transition into the meta? Idk, maybe teambuilding tutorials, voice-over videos of DOU mains playing mid-level games and talking about their thought process, etc. etc. There are probably other better solutions that aren't my half-baked ideas, too. But I guess what I'm saying is our forums (and even the DOU room for that matter) are great for up-and-comers that already understand doubles, but I'm not sure a singles player could immediately creep through the DOU forum and learn the game. The learning curve for DOU can be stiff especially since our ladder isn't that great.

This was the type of thing Mandela would've done and put a lot of energy into but now he's in jail so...
I've been doing my best with frameworks thread (new framework going to come out soonish after Jirachi vote!!!) but that's the extent of content I'm willing to put time into.

Also want to go on record that the fact that only 3/8 council members posted anything in this thread reflecting their thoughts is ridiculous. Like, I put bets on this shit when the thread was posted, so it's not just a one-time-thing, but a general trend. This shit happened last time we suspected Jirachi. If you want something to happen and you're going to create a suspect, maybe instead of whipping out a secret vote 2 months later you convince the general voting populace as the public suspect is happening.

 

[GenOne]

This was the type of thing Mandela would've done and put a lot of energy into but now he's in jail so...
I've been doing my best with frameworks thread (new framework going to come out soonish after Jirachi vote!!!) but that's the extent of content I'm willing to put time into.

Also want to go on record that the fact that only 3/8 council members posted anything in this thread reflecting their thoughts is ridiculous. Like, I put bets on this shit when the thread was posted, so it's not just a one-time-thing, but a general trend. This shit happened last time we suspected Jirachi. If you want something to happen and you're going to create a suspect, maybe instead of whipping out a secret vote 2 months later you convince the general voting populace as the public suspect is happening.

The work you're doing with Frameworks is awesome btw. If you need a hand with anything, I'm happy to help.

Actually I want to go on the record to say that in general, if there's anything I can do to help improve any of the resources on this forum, let me know! I just honestly feel that if our problem is uninformed players coming in to get reqs, why not just turn that negative into the positive by engaging them in the community and helping them improve?

 

[BlueSkiddo]

While there are some issues with the process n1n1 suggested, I can see the merit in it. While it does reduce the number of new players who would be allowed to participate, I do not necessarily disagree with that. In one sense, users who actively participate in the tier and on forums but are still new should not be excluded purely because they havent had a chance to participate in two tours, but on the other hand being excluded from a suspect is not really that big of a deal, certainly not big enough of a problem for people to stop participating in the tier. If anything, it might encourage people to participate in more tours in order to gain the right to participate in suspects. From the list of users that n1n1 has excluded via his diagram: toxigen734, pocket, braverius, and grand empress have certainly proven that they are worthy of voting in the suspect. Toxigen, in this case, participates in a lot of our forum team building contests and a lot on our ladder. Pocket is a very active member of our forum. Braverius has performed well in every spl he has participated in, which absolutely cannot be ignored just because he missed a sign up for a seasonal. Grand Empress, while not succsesful on a large scale, has certainly participated in a couple of seasonals and done well through several rounds of said seasonals.

Overall, I think that participation on forums and in tournaments, in the way that n1n1 depicted it, is a good direction to move in. Our suspects do not come as often, nor are they as serious as singles suspects (serious in the sense that threats need to be removed to fix the metagame immediately). Our suspects are more of an issue of improvement than they are of balance, and our meta does not have of large of a competitive player base as other metas might. This allows us to be a bit more selective in our voting than other metas.

I don't claim to know the best way to address our suspects, but I do feel as though a more exclusive vote would be a good idea. This does not come from someone who, in n1n1's diagram, would have been included in the vote despite not reaching reqs, as I did not attempt to achieve reqs because I do not have a preference either way. Our current suspect method has certainly taken a step in the right direction, and I applaud them for that.

I think that there is a happy medium between laddering and tourney participation which would result in a better suspect, but we're honestly never going to make everything perfect. I think that we can use the current suspect concept as base for further improvement, and I'm happy that we as a community, and our tear leaders, are trying to move towards a more reasonable voting method.

 

[Idyll]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-dou-stage-1-suspect-voting.3598253/page-3#post-7271181

Jirachi got banned.

Any inquiries for TC are to be directed to myself and kamikaze

 

[kamikaze]

I would also like to give a special shoutout to The Immortal for helping us coordinate the new suspect system on PS.

I am very grateful for you taking the time to come on to both set up and take down the ladders at the designated times and helping us handle issues swiftly.

 

[finally]

O jilachi! my jilachi! our fearful redirection is done, The ship has weather’d every ice attack, the prize we sought is won, The sweep is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting, While follow eyes the steady tassles, the vessel bright and smiling
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my jilachi lies,
Fallen cold and dead.

 

[Pocket]

oh fuk i t actually happened.

 

[Test Bot #]

When your vote actually mattered.

Anyways, really interested how the meta will respond to Jirachi's ban besides those that have already been discussed. Will other redirector see rise in usage or will they be disregarded entirely? Will Safety Goggles come back for some teams? How will setup mons beside like zgarde do in this metagame? I can't wait to find out.