Nidoqueen [QC 0/3]

[Tomahawk]

Overview
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-Useful typing that allows to switch in Fairies relatively easily, most importantly Xerneas, also immune to Toxic + Thunder Wave
-Has access to Toxic Spikes which is a really good move in Ubers with relatively poor distribution, giving it a good niche
-Disappointing base stats
-No recovery

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Roar
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Earthquake
ability: Sheer Force
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
========

-Toxic Spikes is Nidoqueen's best move, (badly) poisons everything that comes in which is really cool
-Roar lets it phaze, it's important as it phazes Xerneas, ruining its Power Herb
-Poison Jab also 2HKOes Xerneas, still letting it beat it if it's last mon or if it's Calm Mind or something. Also hits other Fairies and it's boosted by Sheer Force
-Earthquake is secondary STAB and noticably better typing offensively, OHKOes Mega Gengar so it can't really trap you, also 2HKOes Zekrom, and hits Klefki
-Fire Blast can also be used as an attacking option, hits Scizor/Ferrothorn/Genesect really hard, but it's hard to replace something
-Earth Power is an option over Earthquake as it is a little more powerful, but it doesn't OHKO Mega Gengar which is a big trade-off.
-Rest can be used a recovery option if you have a cleric
-Stealth Rock can be used over Toxic Spikes if your team doesn't really need Toxic Spikes

Set Details
========

-EVs + Nature maximizes bulk, letting it take special attack more easily which are the main things it will be taking. This also means it takes 56% maximum from +2 Moonblast from Xerneas, usually avoiding 2HKO as well if needed
-Leftovers as it is Nidoqueen's only recovery. Life Orb can be used from more power since you don't take recoil with Sheer Force (and Earth Power > Earthquake obviously), but it is not recommended

Usage Tips
========

-Since a lot of teams carry a Fairy, there is often a Pokémon the opposing team that Nidoqueen can set up on. It's a good idea with Nidoqueen to identify how useful Toxic Spikes are and what it can set up on, as well as if there's something like Xerneas that it needs to stay alive for

Team Options
========

-Use Wish support, Nidoqueen has no recovery so it really appreciates it
-Cleric is not really needed on the other hand since she is immune to Toxic, but it does appreciate it if using Rest
-Nidoqueen is mostly used on more defensively/balanced inclined teams that appreciate the Toxic Spikes support

Other Options
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-Assault Vest set lets it take special attacks easier, but you have to give up Toxic Spikes which sucks
-Offensive set with Sheer Force + Life Orb + Toxic Spikes might put in some work, as usually safe switchins such as Kyogre take up to 80% damage, but its base stats aren't exactly good enough to pull that off in Ubers


Checks & Counters
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**Skarmory**: Skarmory, while uncommon, takes nothing from anything Nidoqueen can do and can Defog away Toxic Spikes

**Excadrill**: Excadrill, while it needs to fear Earthquake, is immune to Poison and can threaten to KO with Earthquake and Rapid Spin Toxic Spikes

**Kyogre, Mewtwo**: Strong Pokémon like Kyogre, Mewtwo, and Palkia that can come in on Nidoqueen can OHKO it with a super effective STAB move, while also doing a lot of damage to a switchin



Edit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/underrated-sets-and-pokemon.3496042/page-2#post-5392333

 

[RotomPoison]

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Sorry Nidoqueen

 

[Tomahawk]

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Sorry Nidoqueen

What are you trying to say with that calc? First off, it isn't correct since you forgot Leftovers which means 2HKO isn't guaranteed. If you consider Leftovers after switching in, it basically takes no SR Damage as well.

Second, so what if it 2HKOes? Nidoqueen just switches in on Xerneas, if it uses Geomancy on the switchin you will just Roar it out. It can't 2HKO with +2 Moonblast since it has to Geomancy to get to +2 first which is the turn you switchin.

 

[Nayrz]

I've yet to try this mon, but I'm confused as to why you have Sheer Force with Poison Jab + EQ. If you say you are simply going to roar Xerneas out then why not run Sludge Wave + Earth Power? This way you are not completely screwed if you get burned (since Support Arceus isn't really dismayed from switching in on the current set), and with a spread of 248 HP / 152 SpA / 108 SpD (Calm Nature) you don't lose out on the OHKO on Mega Gengar (75% chance), has a small chance to OHKO mixed Scarf Zekrom after SR (31% chance) while also taking....whatever attacks its supposed to (what else does it take anyway?)
Black Sludge > Leftovers for obvious reasons, and C&C needs some expanding, as Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Giratina, Ho-Oh, Palkia, and Refresh Arceus formes (to name a few) can switch in without giving much of a shit what you do. Come to think of it I don't see this being viable at all, but I'm not the group that makes the decisions.

 

[Fireburn]

Can you post some replays of Nidoqueen in action?

 

[Steve Angello]

I will post some replays in the next couple of days no worries Tom :) or do some

 

[Hack]

Do not like.

Nidoqueen has awful bulk by Uber standards, the only thing it /checks/ is Xerneas but it will lose to Psyshock anyway (which people think is a bad coverage move when it really isn't). Being immune to Bolt Strike doesn't carry much weight at all when it's way to risky switching in on Zekrom anyway. Setting Toxic Spikes is fun but it's also Defog bait for some Arceus, Scizor and the uncommon Giratina-O. "Toxic Spikes cripples support Arceus" might be a statement to defend the usefulness of Nidoqueen but any competent player let's his/her Arceus take normal poison and you suddenly wasted your chance of getting off a Toxic on it, which is much more useful in general cases. In the war of attrition against many Defog Arceus, Nidoqueen will actually lose due to no recovery and the fact that the opposing Arceus won't be Toxiced. The choice of moves means it will bait in any Ground-type, meaning you have a SR-fodder mon that your opponents Groudon or especially Lando-T can get free SR on almost indefinitely.

Worse is the fact that you are very Mewtwo, Kyogre, Ho-oh and Palkia-prone since setting tspikes will give your opponent free turns to switch in their big threats and hit hard.

Tentacruel does a similar job to Nidoqueen, it can use Mirror Coat or Haze against GeoXern as well as spinning away hazards and checking Palkia and Kyogre. I would say Nidoqueen is outclassed by Tentacruel with the exception of that Ground-typing making it Electric immune instead of weak, but that fact is hardly relevant as Nidoqueen isn't the mon you want to throw in against Zekrom. This actually leads to a second point, being Nidoqueen often mandates a second Ground-type on your team, for SR and the fact that you don't check Zekrom at all. This in turn leads to an overall build weaker especially to Kyogre and Palkia, which I wouldn't recommend.

So I'm gonna have to stamp QC reject unless someone can convince me otherwise

 

[Colonel M]

I know I am not QC, but Nidoqueen does not strike me as a good Pokemon in Ubers.

Like Hack He Must said, Xerneas can carry Psyshock anyway. This isn't very uncommon for higher ladders of play either:

[12:46] <%Colonel_M> !usage1760 xerneas moves
[12:46] <+TIBot> Moonblast 98.778% | Geomancy 83.136% | Focus Blast 38.349% | Thunderbolt 26.851% | Psyshock 25.941% | Hidden Power Fire 24.135% |

Notice that Thunderbolt, Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire are pretty close to each other. So it isn't necessarily uncommon for Xerneas to have Psyshock - thus defeating Nidoqueen's primary purpose.

Furthermore, it doesn't really scare any relevant threats. Zekrom is only deterred from spamming Bolt Strike if it is Choice variants. The same with Choice variant mons that are possible like Palkia and Kyogre from spamming Thunder. Also, if for some reason Nidoqueen was on the other team and Xerneas wasn't present on the opponent's team, then all it can reliably do is lay Toxic Spikes - only to be Defogged by Arceus. Hell a lot of people don't realize this, but Mega Gengar can remove Toxic Spikes too!

I mean honestly Toxic Spikes is the only thing really going for Nidoqueen. It's disappointing in power and in defensive capabilities. Sure it can survive a Geomancy Xerneas's Moonblast, which is impressive, but there are better non-deadweight options to check Xerneas like Aegislash and better Pokemon that have access to Toxic Spikes.

 

[Disaster Area]

Tank Weezing/Koffing?

(on the topic of weird niche toxic spikers)

 

[Minority]

Is there anything that Nidoqueen does better than tank Weezing other than OHKO Mega Gar, which can just remain untouchable if it stays non mega? Weezing can actually permanently cripple physical set up sweepers thanks to WoW rather than just roar them away and can actually tank a +2 Psyshock. In addition Weezing is immune to ground and therefore Spikes, which is in some ways more useful than having an electric immunity when Nidoqueen can't take on Zekrom anyways. Granted Weezing has to rely on stalling out Xern rather than causing instant damage, but it still appears to be a better check.

You can in fact run max defense on Nidoqueen to survive a +2 Psyshock while even with no SpD investment +2 Moonblast still doesn't OHKO. You mention that running max special defense is so that you usually escape the 2HKO from +2 Moonblast, however after rocks and Black Sludge recovery this is not true:

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

I don't know what other special attacks Nidoqueen is meant to sponge, but none are probably as important. Is there any good reason to not run at least enough defense investment so that you at least have a decent chance of surviving a +2 Psyshock?

 

[SuperWumbology]

I know I am not QC, but Nidoqueen does not strike me as a good Pokemon in Ubers.

Like Hack He Must said, Xerneas can carry Psyshock anyway. This isn't very uncommon for higher ladders of play either:

[12:46] <%Colonel_M> !usage1760 xerneas moves
[12:46] <+TIBot> Moonblast 98.778% | Geomancy 83.136% | Focus Blast 38.349% | Thunderbolt 26.851% | Psyshock 25.941% | Hidden Power Fire 24.135% |

Notice that Thunderbolt, Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire are pretty close to each other. So it isn't necessarily uncommon for Xerneas to have Psyshock - thus defeating Nidoqueen's primary purpose.

Furthermore, it doesn't really scare any relevant threats. Zekrom is only deterred from spamming Bolt Strike if it is Choice variants. The same with Choice variant mons that are possible like Palkia and Kyogre from spamming Thunder. Also, if for some reason Nidoqueen was on the other team and Xerneas wasn't present on the opponent's team, then all it can reliably do is lay Toxic Spikes - only to be Defogged by Arceus. Hell a lot of people don't realize this, but Mega Gengar can remove Toxic Spikes too!

I mean honestly Toxic Spikes is the only thing really going for Nidoqueen. It's disappointing in power and in defensive capabilities. Sure it can survive a Geomancy Xerneas's Moonblast, which is impressive, but there are better non-deadweight options to check Xerneas like Aegislash and better Pokemon that have access to Toxic Spikes.

Though I'm being off-topic, I still like that people are still using fucking Thunderbolt on Xerneas. It's better than Flash Cannon though.

Back en route, even though I liked this at the start, with all this other data involved, I'm kind of unsure if Nidoqueen is viable enough compared to other niche Xern checks or counters like SpD Jirachi and Amoonguss.

 

[Tomahawk]

I've yet to try this mon, but I'm confused as to why you have Sheer Force with Poison Jab + EQ. If you say you are simply going to roar Xerneas out then why not run Sludge Wave + Earth Power? This way you are not completely screwed if you get burned (since Support Arceus isn't really dismayed from switching in on the current set), and with a spread of 248 HP / 152 SpA / 108 SpD (Calm Nature) you don't lose out on the OHKO on Mega Gengar (75% chance), has a small chance to OHKO mixed Scarf Zekrom after SR (31% chance) while also taking....whatever attacks its supposed to (what else does it take anyway?)
Black Sludge > Leftovers for obvious reasons, and C&C needs some expanding, as Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Giratina, Ho-Oh, Palkia, and Refresh Arceus formes (to name a few) can switch in without giving much of a shit what you do. Come to think of it I don't see this being viable at all, but I'm not the group that makes the decisions.

Well, Poison Jab is boosted by Sheer Force, but also it helps against Calm Mind Xerneas, last-mon Geomancy, Calm Mind Fairy Arceus. Sludge Wave + Earth Power, I can mention that in AC. However, you have to give up bulk investment to KO Mega Gengar, also I still feel Poison Jab is important (if you like the Poison STAB, it's not absolutely necessary) for hitting last-mon Geomancy mainly, but I suppose it can work. Also that bulk investment is still pretty important seeing as Nidoqueen isn't that naturally bulky, it helps also vs stuff like (other than Fairies) Dialga, Thundurus, Terrakion, etc. And Black Sludge > Leftovers is obvious, I don't know why I forgot that.

Can you post some replays of Nidoqueen in action?

I haven't saved any replays while using it really, but I'll get some in within the next few days. Also,

I will post some replays in the next couple of days no worries Tom :) or do some

:]

And I think replays can show that Nidoqueen actually can be p useful.

Do not like.

Nidoqueen has awful bulk by Uber standards, the only thing it /checks/ is Xerneas but it will lose to Psyshock anyway (which people think is a bad coverage move when it really isn't). Being immune to Bolt Strike doesn't carry much weight at all when it's way to risky switching in on Zekrom anyway. Setting Toxic Spikes is fun but it's also Defog bait for some Arceus, Scizor and the uncommon Giratina-O. "Toxic Spikes cripples support Arceus" might be a statement to defend the usefulness of Nidoqueen but any competent player let's his/her Arceus take normal poison and you suddenly wasted your chance of getting off a Toxic on it, which is much more useful in general cases. In the war of attrition against many Defog Arceus, Nidoqueen will actually lose due to no recovery and the fact that the opposing Arceus won't be Toxiced. The choice of moves means it will bait in any Ground-type, meaning you have a SR-fodder mon that your opponents Groudon or especially Lando-T can get free SR on almost indefinitely.

Worse is the fact that you are very Mewtwo, Kyogre, Ho-oh and Palkia-prone since setting tspikes will give your opponent free turns to switch in their big threats and hit hard.

Tentacruel does a similar job to Nidoqueen, it can use Mirror Coat or Haze against GeoXern as well as spinning away hazards and checking Palkia and Kyogre. I would say Nidoqueen is outclassed by Tentacruel with the exception of that Ground-typing making it Electric immune instead of weak, but that fact is hardly relevant as Nidoqueen isn't the mon you want to throw in against Zekrom. This actually leads to a second point, being Nidoqueen often mandates a second Ground-type on your team, for SR and the fact that you don't check Zekrom at all. This in turn leads to an overall build weaker especially to Kyogre and Palkia, which I wouldn't recommend.

So I'm gonna have to stamp QC reject unless someone can convince me otherwise

I understand your points, Nidoqueen does have pretty poor bulk but imo it can work vs certain mons. Xerneas doesn't have Psyshock slashed on the analysis (it's [Geomancy | Moonblast | Thunder | Focus Blast / Substitute / Hidden Power Fire] so i t's fair to assume Xerneas doesn't carry it in an analysis). Being immune to Bolt Strike is still pretty useful imo, also it's immune to Volt Switch, it's not necessarily a great switchin, but since most Zekroms are Scarf it still makes Zekrom uneasy to use Volt Switch, as it will risk giving Nidoqueen a free turn, so it will make it a little easier to work with (esp. when pairing it with a Fairy). Also, Defog is a problem all Toxic Spikers face, though less so than other hazards because if they hit once it's enough. Yeah Landorus-T can get free SR but that also means you can get up two layers of TSpikes, also if you fear those you can carry Ice Beam > Poison Jab.

Yeah that is very annoying, but really you should only use this on a defensive team that has answers to those threats.

Tentacruel doesn't counter Xerneas because Thunder is an unslashed move on the Xerneas analysis (see above) and it OHKOes at +2. Also it is trapped by Mega Gengar which is really annoying if they're using Xerneas + Mega Gengar which is pretty common from my experience. Also I don't really agree, there are enough ways of working around Zekrom other than just Ground-types, Nidoqueen + Fairy takes care of Choice Scarf, for Mixed you can use something like Ferrothorn or Grass Arceus as well.

I know I am not QC, but Nidoqueen does not strike me as a good Pokemon in Ubers.

Like Hack He Must said, Xerneas can carry Psyshock anyway. This isn't very uncommon for higher ladders of play either:

[12:46] <%Colonel_M> !usage1760 xerneas moves
[12:46] <+TIBot> Moonblast 98.778% | Geomancy 83.136% | Focus Blast 38.349% | Thunderbolt 26.851% | Psyshock 25.941% | Hidden Power Fire 24.135% |

Notice that Thunderbolt, Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire are pretty close to each other. So it isn't necessarily uncommon for Xerneas to have Psyshock - thus defeating Nidoqueen's primary purpose.

Furthermore, it doesn't really scare any relevant threats. Zekrom is only deterred from spamming Bolt Strike if it is Choice variants. The same with Choice variant mons that are possible like Palkia and Kyogre from spamming Thunder. Also, if for some reason Nidoqueen was on the other team and Xerneas wasn't present on the opponent's team, then all it can reliably do is lay Toxic Spikes - only to be Defogged by Arceus. Hell a lot of people don't realize this, but Mega Gengar can remove Toxic Spikes too!

I mean honestly Toxic Spikes is the only thing really going for Nidoqueen. It's disappointing in power and in defensive capabilities. Sure it can survive a Geomancy Xerneas's Moonblast, which is impressive, but there are better non-deadweight options to check Xerneas like Aegislash and better Pokemon that have access to Toxic Spikes.

I can't really take those stats too seriously with Thunderbolt > Thunder. Looking at the analysis of Xerneas (like I mentioned with Hack) Psyshock isn't slashed, and since analyses are continuous (couldn't think of the correct word but you know what I mean) I think mentioning Nidoqueen as a solid Xerneas counter is fine.

From my experience, a lot of teams carry a Fairy (doesn't have to be Xerneas), and all of those (other than Psyshock Xerneas) are taken care of by Nidoqueen, and lets it setup Toxic Spikes. Yes, it is not a Zekrom counter, but it is immune to Electric which is nice versus Choice sets. Xerneas isn't the only thing Nidoqueen can switch in on, it can also switch in on all other Fairies (Klefki, Arceus, Sylveon), Thundurus, Genesect, Lugia, Dialga, Terrakion, Aegislash, Blissey.

Aegislash is still pretty deadweight, maybe even more so than Nidoqueen since it doesn't do much else while Nidoqueen can set up Toxic Spikes. And yes there are better Toxic Spikers, but there aren't better Toxic Spikers that can also take on Xerneas.

Is there anything that Nidoqueen does better than tank Weezing other than OHKO Mega Gar, which can just remain untouchable if it stays non mega? Weezing can actually permanently cripple physical set up sweepers thanks to WoW rather than just roar them away and can actually tank a +2 Psyshock. In addition Weezing is immune to ground and therefore Spikes, which is in some ways more useful than having an electric immunity when Nidoqueen can't take on Zekrom anyways. Granted Weezing has to rely on stalling out Xern rather than causing instant damage, but it still appears to be a better check.

You can in fact run max defense on Nidoqueen to survive a +2 Psyshock while even with no SpD investment +2 Moonblast still doesn't OHKO. You mention that running max special defense is so that you usually escape the 2HKO from +2 Moonblast, however after rocks and Black Sludge recovery this is not true:

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

I don't know what other special attacks Nidoqueen is meant to sponge, but none are probably as important. Is there any good reason to not run at least enough defense investment so that you at least have a decent chance of surviving a +2 Psyshock?

Yes it beats Xerneas (and like you said KO Mega Gar, if it doesn't evolve you can just set up two layers and switch out). Xerneas KOes Weezing with +2 Thunder (or Moonblast after SR) which they always have, cause you're probably using Bold 252 Def. Even with Calm you still take a lot more damage from Thunder. Being immune to ground also means that it can't absorb Toxic Spikes itself, which is an advantage for Nidoqueen. Klefki can also just set up 3 layers on Weezing, Nidoqueen takes on Thundurus which Weezing doesn't.

To have a decent chance of surviving Psyshock you need to go Impish/Relaxed, not worth it.



Actually, Nidoqueen works pretty well in practice despits its flaws, if anyone wants to test it I can pm you an importable of a half-decent team that I've been using.

 

[Disaster Area]

But Weeing(/koffing?) is a better toxic spiker that can take on xerneas (at least u can EV it to and it can use clear smog happily and then recover with pain split etc.)

 

[Nayrz]

Well, Poison Jab is boosted by Sheer Force, but also it helps against Calm Mind Xerneas, last-mon Geomancy, Calm Mind Fairy Arceus. Sludge Wave + Earth Power, I can mention that in AC. However, you have to give up bulk investment to KO Mega Gengar, also I still feel Poison Jab is important (if you like the Poison STAB, it's not absolutely necessary) for hitting last-mon Geomancy mainly, but I suppose it can work. Also that bulk investment is still pretty important seeing as Nidoqueen isn't that naturally bulky, it helps also vs stuff like (other than Fairies) Dialga, Thundurus, Terrakion, etc. And Black Sludge > Leftovers is obvious, I don't know why I forgot that.


I haven't saved any replays while using it really, but I'll get some in within the next few days. Also,

:]

And I think replays can show that Nidoqueen actually can be p useful.


I understand your points, Nidoqueen does have pretty poor bulk but imo it can work vs certain mons. Xerneas doesn't have Psyshock slashed on the analysis (it's [Geomancy | Moonblast | Thunder | Focus Blast / Substitute / Hidden Power Fire] so i t's fair to assume Xerneas doesn't carry it in an analysis). Being immune to Bolt Strike is still pretty useful imo, also it's immune to Volt Switch, it's not necessarily a great switchin, but since most Zekroms are Scarf it still makes Zekrom uneasy to use Volt Switch, as it will risk giving Nidoqueen a free turn, so it will make it a little easier to work with (esp. when pairing it with a Fairy). Also, Defog is a problem all Toxic Spikers face, though less so than other hazards because if they hit once it's enough. Yeah Landorus-T can get free SR but that also means you can get up two layers of TSpikes, also if you fear those you can carry Ice Beam > Poison Jab.

Yeah that is very annoying, but really you should only use this on a defensive team that has answers to those threats.

Tentacruel doesn't counter Xerneas because Thunder is an unslashed move on the Xerneas analysis (see above) and it OHKOes at +2. Also it is trapped by Mega Gengar which is really annoying if they're using Xerneas + Mega Gengar which is pretty common from my experience. Also I don't really agree, there are enough ways of working around Zekrom other than just Ground-types, Nidoqueen + Fairy takes care of Choice Scarf, for Mixed you can use something like Ferrothorn or Grass Arceus as well.



I can't really take those stats too seriously with Thunderbolt > Thunder. Looking at the analysis of Xerneas (like I mentioned with Hack) Psyshock isn't slashed, and since analyses are continuous (couldn't think of the correct word but you know what I mean) I think mentioning Nidoqueen as a solid Xerneas counter is fine.

From my experience, a lot of teams carry a Fairy (doesn't have to be Xerneas), and all of those (other than Psyshock Xerneas) are taken care of by Nidoqueen, and lets it setup Toxic Spikes. Yes, it is not a Zekrom counter, but it is immune to Electric which is nice versus Choice sets. Xerneas isn't the only thing Nidoqueen can switch in on, it can also switch in on all other Fairies (Klefki, Arceus, Sylveon), Thundurus, Genesect, Lugia, Dialga, Terrakion, Aegislash, Blissey.

Aegislash is still pretty deadweight, maybe even more so than Nidoqueen since it doesn't do much else while Nidoqueen can set up Toxic Spikes. And yes there are better Toxic Spikers, but there aren't better Toxic Spikers that can also take on Xerneas.


Yes it beats Xerneas (and like you said KO Mega Gar, if it doesn't evolve you can just set up two layers and switch out). Xerneas KOes Weezing with +2 Thunder (or Moonblast after SR) which they always have, cause you're probably using Bold 252 Def. Even with Calm you still take a lot more damage from Thunder. Being immune to ground also means that it can't absorb Toxic Spikes itself, which is an advantage for Nidoqueen. Klefki can also just set up 3 layers on Weezing, Nidoqueen takes on Thundurus which Weezing doesn't.

To have a decent chance of surviving Psyshock you need to go Impish/Relaxed, not worth it.



Actually, Nidoqueen works pretty well in practice despits its flaws, if anyone wants to test it I can pm you an importable of a half-decent team that I've been using.

My main issue with Nidoqueen is that it gives almost everything free turns. Zekrom wouldn't even mind risking the Bolt Strike since giving Nidoqueen a free turn isn't that much of an issue, and is probably worth the risk as Nidoqueen has little to no offensive presence and can't touch most switch ins. Every viable Defog user can easily get rid of the Toxic Spikes you set up, and it invites numerous mons in to start tearing holes, and Nidoqueen can't really stop them.

 

[Sweep]

QC REJECTED 1/3

OK, so I decided to test this thing out with an open mind and I fully admit it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. First off, it is a terrific check to almost all Xerneas. Roar easily phazes Power Herb while easily eating a +2 Moonblast, Focus Blast, Thunder, Hidden Power Fire, or Thunderbolt. It can handle mixed Expert Belt/Life Orb sets as well since Close Combat and Night slash do not bother it in the slightest. The one move it legitimately fears is Psyshock, but I vehemently disagree with Hack on the move's viability. Apart from killing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock reliably, it hits very little quality Pokemon and the Fighting types it does hit are creamed by Moonblast anyway. Gengar and Ho-Oh both get hit by Electric moves, Tentacruel is uncommon, and its main targets (Amoonguss, Arceus-Poison, Chansey Nidoqueen lol) are either rare, awful, or both. Psyshock was not used very often in SPL at all, and it's probably the 2nd worst offensive move I have seen used on GeoXern (Flash Cannon is obviously way worse). So for all intents and purposes, I consider Nidoqueen to be an excellent check to Xerneas, as well as Calm Mind Fairy Arceus. Also, access to Toxic Spikes are really nice. Even regular poison quickly wears down Defog Arceus, forcing it to Recover far more often than it likes, and if you are fortunate to status a Mewtwo or something like offensive Palkia...well you guys know how good TSpikes are from last generation...you don't need to use up a turn statusing them. So yeah, Toxic Spikes are good in this metagame. It's a shame there are not many good users of the move in this metagame.

Also note that Nidoqueen answers Klefki as well, and though Klefki can set up Spikes, it gets Toxic Spikes set up on it in return due to its lack of Prankster Taunt. It also cannot status Nidoqueen with Toxic OR Thunder Wave. Again, it does pretty well vs. Genesect too as a U-Turn sponge and sets up TSpikeseasily on a variety of walls, such as Sylveon.

...but unfortunately none of the above make Nidoqueen truly "good" or even adequate. What Hack and Col. M said has a lot of merit. Nidoqueen isn't even going to be used outside of defensive teams due to how much momentum it takes away from your team -- it's like fucking Cresselia in this regard -- and unfortunately it does not contribute close to enough to compensate for its lackluster offenses to fit on offense. On defense, having an Electric immunity, Toxic Spikes user and Xerneas check all in one may look attractive, especially since Xerneas cannot bypass Nidoqueen with any of its other sets or any of its coverage moves besides the shitty Psyshock. Unfortunately, the list of Pokemon that Nidoqueen checks is not enough to comfortably fit on stall teams that are hard-pressed as it is to cover as many threats in the metagame as possible. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it does NOT check Zekrom; any team that uses Nidoqueen to absorb Bolt Strikes will lose badly to it. It also does not check Arceus-Electric since a +1 Ice Beam does a lot of damage and Earthquake doesn't even 2HKO variants with Defense investment.

Hide

0 Atk Nidoqueen Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Electric: 152-182 (34.2 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Arceus-Electric Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 182-216 (47.3 - 56.2%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also note that Electric Arceus has Recover and is faster than you, so you're forced to Roar it out after taking a shot. Nidoqueen also failed HORRIBLY against most of the game's top threats, such as Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, Yveltal, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Palkia, Ho-Oh, Groudon, Lando-T, etc. There's also unevolved Mega Gengar which can toy with you all day, and fire-types in the sun (Hi Victini). Granted, Stall teams should be able to handle these threats early on in the game, but Nidoqueen literally gives ALL of them switchins for free, allowing them to spam powerful attacks and wear down your team. That's way too many poor match-ups to make it worth fitting into Stall teams. Also note that its lack of reliable recovery makes it reliant on receiving Wishes to stay healthy, and with Taunt and offensive pressure everywhere, it isn't easy for Queen's teammates to give it wishes. The lack of reliable recovery was just sad when I used this, as 90/87/85 bulk is embarrassing for an Ubers wall.

My opinion of Nidoqueen reminds me of what Shrang had to say about Stunfisk last generation; it's actually not that terrible, and can work in certain situations...but just because a Pokemon is usable doesn't mean that you should ever consider adding it to a team. "Usable" and "viable" are not synonymous, and there is simply no reason for a stall team to ever use Nidoqueen because of the inherent holes it will open up in your team and the limited number of Pokemon it checks. Likewise, there is no reason for any other playstyle to use it because of the momentum it takes away from your team. Sorry Tomahawk, this is a cool idea and I enjoy testing out innovative sets like this!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-114404767 (loosely checks Genesect as it only fears Ice Beam and isn't 2HKOed if Download boosts Attack).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-114383099 (vs. Rileydelete, Toxic Spikes helped wear down Absol, which was huge as I was very weak to it. BTW someone should test Absol, seems like a pain to defensive teams since it cannot be burned by WoW)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-114372451 (vs. Krauersaut, Nido walled 2/3rds of his team lol. Nido's best performance)

There were other ladder matches but none of the other opponents were close to competitive. Nidoqueen was never deadweight but its mere presence restricted teambuilding and forced me to run Lando so Zekrom couldn't Bolt Strike this team to death after Nidoqueen inevitably died.

 

[Fireburn]

Sweep's evidence is pretty conclusive. Sorry Tomahawk9, it was an interesting idea!

QC Rejected 2/3

 

[Blue Jay]

Psyshock is still objectively better than the terrible Thunderbolt Sweep . Between Fairy Aura and STAB a neutral Moonblast outdamages a super effective Thunderbolt, making its Ubers viable targets Ho-Oh (still only a 2HKO), Heatran (the damage is pitiful though) and Tentacruel (still not a OHKO against max SpD, and I've positively seen more Poison Arceus and Blisseys than this).

That aside, I think the main point here is that, as Sweep said, usable is not necessarily viable, and Nidoqueen does not quite make the cut.

QC Rejected: 3/3

 

[Hack]

Fuck you all getting here before me.

4/3

 

[Fireburn]

ded