Resource Monotype SM Viability Rankings

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Sableye: Unranked => C (Dark)


Not entirely sure why this isn't already ranked. Sableye offers dark a nice option in being able to pressure and check many threats to dark with prankster will-o-wisp, such as Terrakion and Mega Heracross, and also is a very nice lead in order to stop hazards or any kind of set up shenanigans with taunt. It also provides dark with a nice immunity to Fighting, which in turn stops certain pokemon from completely sweeping through a dark team with any prior chip damage, and is an amazing core when paired with Mandibuzz that many teams will find extremely hard to break through. Although it is limited in its move-set, and usually only runs the same generic one (Recover/Taunt/Will-o-Wisp/Filler) with very little room for variation, I still think it is a very solid mon on dark, and deserves at least a C rank if not B, as it still serves its role well while allowing another mega to be ran in its place, such as Mega Sharpedo/Houndoom.

s/o me for first post in ages feelsgoals
 
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Jynx Unranked -> D for Ice teams- Jynx can Lovely Kiss, Trick, Blizzard, and Focus Blast on Choice Scarf sets, which is Glaceon's niche. Being faster, offering more coverage, and an immunity to water through Dry Skin (available through transfer), Jynx can take advantage of both Hail and Rain, and is a god send when enemy Rain teams power up fast sweepers.

While Jynx is frail, it has a plethora of moves for coverage, such as STAB Psyshock/Psychic for Salazzle and Keldeo (a huge fast threat for Ice types and the former being especially dangerous to Alolan-Ninetails), Freeze Dry for 4x weak Water types like Swampert and Seismitoad, and of course Focus Blast for Steel types like Heatran, as well as Rock types like Tyranitar.

Basically it is best served as a late-game Scarf cleaner, finishing off enemies that have been worn down with Hazards, with its excellent coverage moves, or at least incompacitating a foe with Lovely Kiss.

Lastly, while not recommended, if you need to fit random moves like Heal Bell, Aurora Veil, or Perish Song on your team, Jynx has those moves as well.

While Jynx does have some decent utility with Lovely Kiss and Trick, I don't really think it warrants a rank. Lapras offers that same Water immunity while also not getting chipped away each turn under sun and checking easily one of Ice's greatest threats in Mega Scizor. Alolan Ninetales already checks Keldeo, while also being essential to all Ice teams with its great Speed tier and support with Snow Warning and Aurora Veil. And Salazzle is simply irrelevant in Monotype, not having any particular viability on either of its types. Also, last time I checked, Jynx doesn't get Freeze Dry, which means it doesn't check Swampert or Seismitoad very easily at all. As a Scarfer, Kyurem-Black has the exact same speed tier, while hitting all the threats you mentioned outside of Tyranitar(which Avalugg switches into provided it isn't carrying Fire Blast, and Mamoswine and Weavile will be guaranteeing OHKOes against it, unlike Jynx), as well as dealing more damage with its larger offenses and having more important coverage in general. Jynx is simply outclassed in everything it tries to do, and isn't worthy of even a D ranking on Ice.
 

mushamu

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Mega-Heracross (Bug) Unranked --> A or B

Mega Heracross on bug is much scarier because of the amount of speed control bug has. Galvantula has the ability to lay down webs, Armaldo has the ability to lay down Rocks. Both of those give Mega Heracross speed, and breaks sashes & sturdy. The fact that many bug types get pivoting moves such as U-Turn, and in Galvantula's case, Volt Switch, gives Mega Heracross more opportunity to switch in and do its job. It may not be A ranked because of the opportunity cost to use Mega-Pinsir, I think it still deserves at least the B rank because of its sheer wallbreaking power in conjunction with webs and support.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
While Jynx does have some decent utility with Lovely Kiss and Trick, I don't really think it warrants a rank. Lapras offers that same Water immunity while also not getting chipped away each turn under sun and checking easily one of Ice's greatest threats in Mega Scizor. Alolan Ninetales already checks Keldeo, while also being essential to all Ice teams with its great Speed tier and support with Snow Warning and Aurora Veil. And Salazzle is simply irrelevant in Monotype, not having any particular viability on either of its types. Also, last time I checked, Jynx doesn't get Freeze Dry, which means it doesn't check Swampert or Seismitoad very easily at all. As a Scarfer, Kyurem-Black has the exact same speed tier, while hitting all the threats you mentioned outside of Tyranitar(which Avalugg switches into provided it isn't carrying Fire Blast, and Mamoswine and Weavile will be guaranteeing OHKOes against it, unlike Jynx), as well as dealing more damage with its larger offenses and having more important coverage in general. Jynx is simply outclassed in everything it tries to do, and isn't worthy of even a D ranking on Ice.
I'm sorry, meant Energy Ball/Grass Knot for Swampert and Seismitoad.
I don't think of Jynx as over Kyurem. More of an additional sweeper. i just thought what makes Glaceon worth D and not Jynx? Both are Scarf sweepers, Jynx offers more coverage, Speed, and at Modest is just a couple points above Jolly Mamoswine or Timid Glaceon's offense, while being faster.

Ninetails checking Keldeo is great. Once Ninetails dies, however, what else checks it? Scarf Kyurem-B? It just seems like it's good to have options in case both are KOed. Scarf Mamoswine doesn't have any 1HKO moves, and at least Jynx can switch into Water attacks and heals from the Rain in case Stealth Rocks add up while carrying Scarf Psychic.

Putting it at D-rank is saying it is somewhere along the lines of Glaceon (the only other D-listed), so I already acknowledge it is worse than anything C or above.
 
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Claydol (Ground) Unranked -> C or B
Ground teams struggle to deal with flying teams, and while they deal with Steel well, I sometimes run into trouble dealing with them when they have both Skarmory and Celsteela. On top of being able to set up screens, Claydol can also use gravity - this gives the whole team great bulk and gets rid of any ground immunities. From here, switch into any of your offensive threats and watch flying teams and Skarmory/Csteela crumble.

On top of just screening and setting up gravity, 252 hp / 252+ sd Claydol can take just about any special super effective hit, and is hard to kill without *2 damage. Rapid spin for hazard control, and while this gets rid of any offensive threat this is usually covered by my other pokemon. It also frees up a 4th move for other spinners like Excadrill. Alternatively, you can run a still decently powerful eq or psychic.

Obviously this isn't a perfect system which is why I don't want to go overboard on the ranking, but I definitely think it's worth a mention for its screening capabilities. They've proven invaluable to me on several occasions, and gravity has so far been the best way for me to deal with god damn Csteela. It also helps deal with bulky Zapdos or Rotom-anything.
 

roman

Banned deucer.
Claydol (Ground) Unranked -> C or B
Ground teams struggle to deal with flying teams, and while they deal with Steel well, I sometimes run into trouble dealing with them when they have both Skarmory and Celsteela. On top of being able to set up screens, Claydol can also use gravity - this gives the whole team great bulk and gets rid of any ground immunities. From here, switch into any of your offensive threats and watch flying teams and Skarmory/Csteela crumble.

On top of just screening and setting up gravity, 252 hp / 252+ sd Claydol can take just about any special super effective hit, and is hard to kill without *2 damage. Rapid spin for hazard control, and while this gets rid of any offensive threat this is usually covered by my other pokemon. It also frees up a 4th move for other spinners like Excadrill. Alternatively, you can run a still decently powerful eq or psychic.

Obviously this isn't a perfect system which is why I don't want to go overboard on the ranking, but I definitely think it's worth a mention for its screening capabilities. They've proven invaluable to me on several occasions, and gravity has so far been the best way for me to deal with god damn Csteela. It also helps deal with bulky Zapdos or Rotom-anything.
hi, welcome to the forums

claydol is outclassed as a spinner by excadrill, gravity setter by landorus, rocker by hippo who can compress roles by being a bulky pivot who also sets sandstorm for exca and phases setup mons and outclassed as a celesteela check by the previously mentioned gravity landorus and sd firium z garchomp.

being a defensive utility mon seems cool but it's just completely outclassed in every role barring dual screens and possibly tr that doesnt have many good abusers off the top of my head. ground also doesn't really appreciate giving up the teamslot.

d at best :s
 
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hi, welcome to the forums

claydol is outclassed as a spinner by excadrill, gravity setter by landorus, rocker by hippo who can compress roles by being a bulky pivot who also sets sandstorm for exca and phases setup mons and outclassed as a celesteela check by the previously mentioned gravity landorus and sd firium z garchomp.

being a defensive utility mon seems cool but it's just completely outclassed in every role barring dual screens and possibly tr that doesnt have many good abusers off the top of my head. ground also doesn't really appreciate giving up the teamslot.

d at best :s
Edit: Thanks for the welcome!

Fair enough, but I just like putting all these roles into one pokemon. It frees up a lot of move slots - excadrill with xscissor for psychic and dark, landorus with extrasensory for fighting/poison, and may as well stick rocks on hippowdon. B is definitely too high, but I think because of how it frees up other parts of your team you could make a case for C.
 

Acast

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Edit: Thanks for the welcome!

Fair enough, but I just like putting all these roles into one pokemon. It frees up a lot of move slots - excadrill with xscissor for psychic and dark, landorus with extrasensory for fighting/poison, and may as well stick rocks on hippowdon. B is definitely too high, but I think because of how it frees up other parts of your team you could make a case for C.
The problem with Claydol is that it's incredibly passive with no way of recovering itself or preventing a setup sweep. If a Pokemon is going to be passive, it needs reliable recovery to be considered good. Adding to that, its passiveness means it has no way to take advantage of Gravity or Trick Room. It can set up Gravity, but it has to switch out if you want that Gravity to be of much use. After switching out, you only have 3 turns left to take advantage of it. That's an incredibly inefficient setup. Landorus can set Gravity and proceed to sweep immediately, which is why it's a common move on Landorus.
Because of Claydol's passiveness and it being outclassed in most of its roles, I agree with Kennyth. It's D at best.
 
Haven't done one of these in a while, so why not.



Dragalge: B=>A (Dragon)

I feel like Dragalge is worthy of A rank for a number of reasons. Its part Poison typing along with Adaptability and its solid special bulk lets it check quite a lot of Fairy types like Clefable, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, and Togekiss. Even against the likes of Klefki, Dragalge can still beat it 1v1 with Hidden Power Fire as well as get up free Toxic Spikes to wear everything down. Along the lines of Toxic Spikes, it does a nice job at wearing down balanced teams, allowing wallbreakers like Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, and Hydreigon to wallbreak more effectively or allowing Salamence to win late-game easier. While it does have its noticeable shortcomings, like its poor Speed and only decent offensive presence outside of its STAB moves, Dragalge offers enough offensive and defensive utility for Dragon teams to warrant an A rank.

And here's what I think is Dragalge's best set right now:
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic Spikes




Tapu Fini: A=>B (Fairy)

The main reason Tapu Fini should drop is because it has a really difficult time fitting on Fairy teams right now. Comparing it to the other A ranks, they simply offer more overall utility, with Clefable giving you another Mega Scizor check and being a great Stealth Rocker to aid in the otherwise tough Fire matchup, and Togekiss being another Mega Scizor check with more of an offensive presence and being able to check the large threat that is Mega Venusaur. It also synergizes poorly with certain aspects of Fairy teams. Misty Terrain's effect of reducing Dragon damage doesn't really help when your entire team is already immune to Dragon, and with Tapu Koko and Tapu Bulu being essential to the type, they can't benefit from its status protection effect. Clefable simply doesn't care about status when it has Magic Guard, and only Shift Gear Magearna sets(which aren't even too largely effective) are largely impacted by status(only being Paralysis). Despite switching into Fire type attacks for Klefki and keeping it safe from burns, Klefki can't Thunder Wave any grounded targets thanks to Tapu Fini's terrain, and Tapu Fini's Defog will make it more difficult for Klefki to keep its Spikes up. Its stallbreaking capabilities aren't needed on a type that can already has the offensive tools to break bulky teams. Due to synergizing poorly with many aspects of Fairy teams and not offering important utility, Tapu Fini should be dropped to B rank.



Rotom-Heat: B=>A (Fire)

Rotom-Heat is a great utility Pokemon for Fire teams. With Reflect and Light Screen, it gives Fire's most devastating wincons, Mega Charizard X and Volcarona, safe setup opportunities. With its part Electric typing and Levitate, it not only has an amazing Ground immunity, but it also operates as one of the only good switch ins against the large threat of Tapu Koko. Additionally, it has access to Volt Switch pivoting, forming an incredible VoltTurn core with Victini and Infernape and giving Fire teams another helpful source of momentum, which is largely important for an offensive type like Fire. Rotom-Heat's overall utility definitely brings it above the other B ranks in Darmanitan and Entei, and is fully deserving of its spot on A rank on Fire.

In my opinion Rotom-Heat's best set right now:
Rotom-Heat @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Volt Switch
- Overheat




Serperior: B=>C

Serperior's issue is that it doesn't offer very much for Grass. Its cleaning capabilities are severely held back by its lack of good coverage, relying on Hidden Power Fire and Dragon Pulse for coverage. Its speed control utility in Glare is done better by Whimsicott's Stun Spore, since it'll always be hitting against threatening setup sweepers like Volcarona and Mega Charizard X. Its natural offensive presence is garbage and is forced to Leaf Storm at least once to get off considerable damage. While its natural bulk of 75/95/95 isn't entirely awful, its mono Grass typing is absolutely horrendous defensively, making it extremely difficult to find setup opportunities. There isn't much justifying it over the other B ranks either. Celebi is far more potent as a setup sweeper due to its better coverage and better bulk, proving to be a formidable asset in the extremely difficult Poison matchup. Whimsicott has the aforementioned Prankster Stun Spore, while also having a part Fairy typing to not only hit most Dragons harder than Serperior's Dragon Pulse, but also doing great against Dark and Fighting types like Mandibuzz, Mega Sableye, and Heracross. Rotom-Mow has its part Electric typing for added coverage in the Flying matchup, alongside Volt Switch pivoting to bring momentum. All 3 of these B ranks also have naturally higher Special Attack stats than Serperior, allowing them to get off more immediate damage. Serperior fails to find itself a consistent role on Grass teams, which is why it should drop to C rank.
 
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Vid

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New Changes
Here's next changes including the preliminary Ranks for the new Megas that were released
Ice
Walrein A--->B
Mega Glalie B--->C
Articuno C--->D
Beartic C--->D
Glaceon D--->Unranked
Water
Mega Swampert Unranked--->A
Primarina Unranked--->C
Mega Gyarados A--->B
Sharpedo B--->D
Seismitoad B--->C
Grass
Tapu Bulu A--->S
Mega Sceptile Unranked--->D
Whimsicott B--->C
Ludicolo D--->Unranked
Decidueye C---->D
Bug
Mega Heracross Unranked--->A
Dark
Mega Houndoom Unranked--->A
Sharpedo B--->C
Sableye Unranked--->C
Fighting
Mega Heracross Unranked--->A
Kommo-o A--->B
Pangoro B--->C
Ground
Mega Swampert Unranked--->D
Fire
Mega Houndoom Unranked--->D
Rotom-Heat B--->A
Fairy
Tapu Fini A--->B
Primarina Unranked--->C
Whimsicott C--->D
Flying
Salamence B--->C
Minior C--->D
Tornadus D--->Unranked
Talonflame C--->D
Honchkrow C--->D
Normal
Heliolisk B--->C
Dodrio C--->D
Drampa C--->D
Silvally D--->Unranked
Braviary D--->Unranked
Ghost
Cofagrigus D--->C
Sableye C---->D
Froslass C--->D
Decidueye C--->D
Chandelure B--->C
Doublade B--->C
Dragon
Latias A--->B
Noivern D--->Unranked
Kingdra C--->D
Kommo-o B--->C
Flygon C--->D
Rock
Archeops C--->Unranked
Aerodactyl B--->C
Diancie B--->C
Minior C--->D
Psychic
Necrozma C--->D
Gothitelle B--->A
 
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I honestly have quite a lot to say about the recent VR changes:



Walrein: B=>A (Ice)

I can't see why Walrein was dropped in the first place. It is an incredible asset for Ice teams in its ability to check Mega Scizor. What puts it above Lapras is its slightly higher Special Attack and Speed. With 65 Speed, it can actually speed tie with max Speed Choice Banded Scizors, which is something that can't be said for Lapras. With a Timid nature, it can even outspeed offensive Mega Scizors at max Speed, which tend to be much more threatening for Ice teams than bulkier variants, while still hitting almost as hard as Modest Specs Lapras. Additionally, with access to Thick Fat, it can serve as Ice's only Fire resistance, which is especially more helpful in the extremely problematic Fire matchup. I'm not necessarily saying that it's better than Lapras, but it is by no means worse, and should be placed back into A rank where it belongs.

Here's what I think is Walrein's best set right now:
Walrein @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard




Whimsicott: C=>B (Grass)

While Whimsicott has undisputedly gotten worse this gen, it definitely shouldn't be in C rank. The utility it offers for Grass is incredibly important. With Prankster Stun Spore, it serves as effective Speed control that can aid Tapu Bulu in outspeeding Scarfed threats like Infernape and Victini. With its Encore utility, it's capable of halting some of Grass's largest threats, being Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Scizor provided it comes in safely against a setup move, which can provide a momentum shift that Grass teams always appreciate. With its part Fairy typing, it can effectively check threats like Latios, Dragonite, Mandibuzz, Kommo-o, Kyurem-Black, and Mega Heracross. Additionally, it also serves as a pivot with U-turn, which proves to be yet another great source of momentum. While it doesn't offer as much as it used to in the Dark matchup, while also having a rather poor offensive presence even with a Life Orb or Pixie Plate, Whimsicott's incredible utility that it provides in a multitude of tough matchups makes it more than deserving of its B ranking on Grass.

Here's what I think is Whimsicott's best set right now:
Whimsicott @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- U-turn
- Encore
- Stun Spore




Chandelure: C=>B (Ghost)

Despite Alolan Marowak having the exact same typing, and Hoopa's wallbreaking capabilities being increased with access to Nasty Plot, Chandelure still secures itself as a great offensive addition to Ghost teams. Unlike Hoopa, Chandelure is actually capable of outspeeding Pokemon like Jolly Mega Heracross, Jolly Breloom, Adamant Excadrill outside of sand, and Modest Kingdra outside of rain, allowing Specs sets to effectively dent/revenge kill these Pokemon whereas Hoopa wouldn't get the chance to most of the time. With Flash Fire, it serves as Ghost's most consistent switch in against the threat that is Mega Charizard Y(Alolan Marowak is 2HKOed by Fire Blast). With a Choice Scarf, it can serve as an effective revenge killer for threats such as Greninja and Mamoswine. While Hoopa still arguably does the special wallbreaking role better, Chandelure still offers enough for Ghost teams to warrant a B rank.

Here are some of Chandelure's best sets(only real difference being the item):
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick




Aerodactyl: C=>B (Rock)

Aerodactyl deserves the B ranking because it still offers important utility to hyper offensive Rock teams that don't want Shuckle draining their momentum. Being able to prevent hazards is especially helpful in the Bug matchup, since Sticky Web can prove to be a serious menace. With Tailwind, this can allow wallbreakers like Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Nihilego, as well as sweepers like Omastar to gain an important boost in Speed to do their jobs more effectively. While Shuckle Offense is more prevalent and arguably more viable, Aerodactyl still stands out as one of Rock's best hazard leads and is more than deserving of B rank.

Here's what I think is Aerodactyl's best set right now:
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge / Aerial Ace
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Tailwind
 
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I honestly have quite a lot to say about the recent VR changes:



Walrein: B=>A (Ice)

I can't see why Walrein was dropped in the first place. It is an incredible asset for Ice teams in its ability to check Mega Scizor. What puts it above Lapras is its slightly higher Special Attack and Speed. With 65 Speed, it can actually speed tie with max Speed Choice Banded Scizors, which is something that can't be said for Lapras. With a Timid nature, it can even outspeed offensive Mega Scizors at max Speed, which tend to be much more threatening for Ice teams than bulkier variants, while still hitting almost as hard as Modest Specs Lapras. Additionally, with access to Thick Fat, it can serve as Ice's only Fire resistance, which is especially more helpful in the extremely problematic Fire matchup. I'm not necessarily saying that it's better than Lapras, but it is by no means worse, and should be placed back into A rank where it belongs.

Here's what I think is Walrein's best set right now:
Walrein @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard




Whimsicott: C=>B (Grass)

While Whimsicott has undisputedly gotten worse this gen, it definitely shouldn't be in C rank. The utility it offers for Grass is incredibly important. With Prankster Stun Spore, it serves as effective Speed control that can aid Tapu Bulu in outspeeding Scarfed threats like Infernape and Victini. With its Encore utility, it's capable of halting some of Grass's largest threats, being Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Scizor provided it comes in safely against a setup move, which can provide a momentum shift that Grass teams always appreciate. With its part Fairy typing, it can effectively check threats like Latios, Dragonite, Mandibuzz, Kommo-o, Kyurem-Black, and Mega Heracross. Additionally, it also serves as a pivot with U-turn, which proves to be yet another great source of momentum. While it doesn't offer as much as it used to in the Dark matchup, while also having a rather poor offensive presence even with a Life Orb or Pixie Plate, Whimsicott's incredible utility that it provides in a multitude of tough matchups makes it more than deserving of its B ranking on Grass.

Here's what I think is Whimsicott's best set right now:
Whimsicott @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- U-turn
- Encore
- Stun Spore




Chandelure: C=>B (Ghost)

Despite Alolan Marowak having the exact same typing, and Hoopa's wallbreaking capabilities being increased with access to Nasty Plot, Chandelure still secures itself as a great offensive addition to Ghost teams. Unlike Hoopa, Chandelure is actually capable of outspeeding Pokemon like Jolly Mega Heracross, Jolly Breloom, Adamant Excadrill outside of sand, and Modest Kingdra outside of rain, allowing Specs sets to effectively dent/revenge kill these Pokemon whereas Hoopa wouldn't get the chance to most of the time. With Flash Fire, it serves as Ghost's most consistent switch in against the threat that is Mega Charizard Y(Alolan Marowak is 2HKOed by Fire Blast). With a Choice Scarf, it can serve as an effective revenge killer for threats such as Greninja and Mamoswine. While Hoopa still arguably does the special wallbreaking role better, Chandelure still offers enough for Ghost teams to warrant a B rank.

Here are some of Chandelure's best sets(only real difference being the item):
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick




Aerodactyl: C=>B (Rock)

Aerodactyl deserves the B ranking because it still offers important utility to hyper offensive Rock teams that don't want Shuckle draining their momentum. Being able to prevent hazards is especially helpful in the Bug matchup, since Sticky Web can prove to be a serious menace. With Tailwind, this can allow wallbreakers like Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Nihilego, as well as sweepers like Omastar to gain an important boost in Speed to do their jobs more effectively. While Shuckle Offense is more prevalent and arguably more viable, Aerodactyl still stands out as one of Rock's best hazard leads and is more than deserving of B rank.

Here's what I think is Aerodactyl's best set right now:
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge / Aerial Ace
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Tailwind
I agree with both of the recommendations smub except for aerodactyl, of the two ways that impact a pokemons ranking, usefulness on the type and relativity, Aerodactyl and hyper offensive Rock just in my opinion is not representative of the archetype that best fits rock as a type, especially with the rise of swift swim water. As for relativity, on a type where rocks archetype is more of a balance, the a ranks and alola golem are on a different level in terms of what they can offer to rock, with this, I think C is where it belongs. (C+ if specific, but not B rank).
 

mushamu

God jihyo
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
I honestly have quite a lot to say about the recent VR changes:



Walrein: B=>A (Ice)

I can't see why Walrein was dropped in the first place. It is an incredible asset for Ice teams in its ability to check Mega Scizor. What puts it above Lapras is its slightly higher Special Attack and Speed. With 65 Speed, it can actually speed tie with max Speed Choice Banded Scizors, which is something that can't be said for Lapras. With a Timid nature, it can even outspeed offensive Mega Scizors at max Speed, which tend to be much more threatening for Ice teams than bulkier variants, while still hitting almost as hard as Modest Specs Lapras. Additionally, with access to Thick Fat, it can serve as Ice's only Fire resistance, which is especially more helpful in the extremely problematic Fire matchup. I'm not necessarily saying that it's better than Lapras, but it is by no means worse, and should be placed back into A rank where it belongs.

Here's what I think is Walrein's best set right now:
Walrein @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard




Whimsicott: C=>B (Grass)

While Whimsicott has undisputedly gotten worse this gen, it definitely shouldn't be in C rank. The utility it offers for Grass is incredibly important. With Prankster Stun Spore, it serves as effective Speed control that can aid Tapu Bulu in outspeeding Scarfed threats like Infernape and Victini. With its Encore utility, it's capable of halting some of Grass's largest threats, being Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Scizor provided it comes in safely against a setup move, which can provide a momentum shift that Grass teams always appreciate. With its part Fairy typing, it can effectively check threats like Latios, Dragonite, Mandibuzz, Kommo-o, Kyurem-Black, and Mega Heracross. Additionally, it also serves as a pivot with U-turn, which proves to be yet another great source of momentum. While it doesn't offer as much as it used to in the Dark matchup, while also having a rather poor offensive presence even with a Life Orb or Pixie Plate, Whimsicott's incredible utility that it provides in a multitude of tough matchups makes it more than deserving of its B ranking on Grass.

Here's what I think is Whimsicott's best set right now:
Whimsicott @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- U-turn
- Encore
- Stun Spore




Chandelure: C=>B (Ghost)

Despite Alolan Marowak having the exact same typing, and Hoopa's wallbreaking capabilities being increased with access to Nasty Plot, Chandelure still secures itself as a great offensive addition to Ghost teams. Unlike Hoopa, Chandelure is actually capable of outspeeding Pokemon like Jolly Mega Heracross, Jolly Breloom, Adamant Excadrill outside of sand, and Modest Kingdra outside of rain, allowing Specs sets to effectively dent/revenge kill these Pokemon whereas Hoopa wouldn't get the chance to most of the time. With Flash Fire, it serves as Ghost's most consistent switch in against the threat that is Mega Charizard Y(Alolan Marowak is 2HKOed by Fire Blast). With a Choice Scarf, it can serve as an effective revenge killer for threats such as Greninja and Mamoswine. While Hoopa still arguably does the special wallbreaking role better, Chandelure still offers enough for Ghost teams to warrant a B rank.

Here are some of Chandelure's best sets(only real difference being the item):
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Trick




Aerodactyl: C=>B (Rock)

Aerodactyl deserves the B ranking because it still offers important utility to hyper offensive Rock teams that don't want Shuckle draining their momentum. Being able to prevent hazards is especially helpful in the Bug matchup, since Sticky Web can prove to be a serious menace. With Tailwind, this can allow wallbreakers like Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Nihilego, as well as sweepers like Omastar to gain an important boost in Speed to do their jobs more effectively. While Shuckle Offense is more prevalent and arguably more viable, Aerodactyl still stands out as one of Rock's best hazard leads and is more than deserving of B rank.

Here's what I think is Aerodactyl's best set right now:
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge / Aerial Ace
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Tailwind
wait, hyper offensive Rock is a playstyle? can you paste a team real quick? never seen hyper offensive rock just bulky offensive rock.
 
I think I'll contest two of the recent drops.


Decidueye C --> D rank (Grass & Ghost)
I feel Decidueye is a little bit underrated on both Grass and Ghost; among the Grass/Ghosts it strikes a balance between Dhelmise's offensive presence and Gourgeist's sustained bulk with access to Roost and strong STABs. Ghost teams of course appreciate a good ground-type resist, but Decidueye offers unique utility in U-turn, as ghost's have no other pivots otherwise. Grass teams can make use of a similar bulky pivot set or a bulky SD Z-Move set that is decently effective on Grass teams. Sinister Arrow Raid is one of the best Z-moves in the game, and while it is utterly wasted on Decidueye, it can still bust through defensive threats like Toxapex, Skarmory, Celesteela, and Mega Venusaur, OHKOing after a Swords Dance.​


Minior C --> D rank (Rock)
While it struggles to fit onto optimal Rock builds, I feel Minior is still broadly effective enough as a set up sweeper to keep it's rank. It is able to clean weakened teams pretty well, and the defensive utility it offers rock with a status and ground immunity is handy. It's definitely nowhere as bad as Aurorus, and is comparable with Lycanroc in terms of niche offensive appeal.

Both of these Pokemon should stay C-rank IMO.
 
Alright so I was saving my thoughts on the newly released Mega Evolutions until after I had finished testing each one, and here are my thoughts:




Mega Abomasnow: Unranked=>Stays unranked (Grass) and Unranked=>D (Ice)

Right from the start, me and probably a lot of other people knew that Mega Abomasnow would be terrible and irrelevant. On Grass, it's pretty obvious why Mega Abomasnow has no place when Mega Venusaur is the undisputed best Grass mega. On Ice, while it does have some solid natural bulk of 90/105/105, its awful defensive typing makes it very hard to use that bulk effectively. And with its absolutely terrible Speed stat, it can't use its amazing offenses all that well, with its terrible Speed and even worse typing will make it extremely easy to revenge kill. Not to mention the obvious points of Alolan Ninetales making just about every other hail setter obselete, and the fact that its effectiveness in the Water matchup doesn't matter all that much when Ice already rips Water to shreds. It's definitely not worthy of C rank, since Aurorus at least offers a bit more utility as a hail setter, and Mega Glalie's decent Speed tier and good offenses make it more desirable as a Mega. It still has its slight merits, so for Ice, I believe it should be D rank.



Mega Manectric: Unranked=>B

Mega Manectric's appeal has definitely been diminished quite a bit by the introduction of Tapu Koko, who generally offers far more for the type and can hit harder when holding a Life Orb. However, it still a few things it can offer for Electric teams. One of which is a powerful Fire type move in Flamethrower that it has over Tapu Koko, allowing it to deal with Ferrothorn and Excadrill. With Intimidate, it can weaken powerful physical threats and can easily Volt Switch pivot right out, allowing Rotom-Wash or Zapdos to handle them more easily. It also has a small benefit in its pre-Mega ability, which can be very helpful when preventing opposing Electric teams from constantly Volt Switch pivoting. While I can't see it finding much use on Electric, it still offers a bit more compared to the other C ranks like Galvantula and Eelektross, which is why I think it deserves a spot on B rank.

Here is what I think is Mega Manectric's best set right now:
Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]




Mega Tyranitar: Unranked=>B (Rock) and Unranked=>C (Dark)

On Rock, Mega Tyranitar will definitely have its benefits. With the Dragon Dance set, alongside Shuckle's Sticky Web support, it's capable of mowing through types like Psychic and potentially Fire with 1 or 2 Dragon Dances under its belt. However, without that Sticky Web support, it's incredibly slow for a setup sweeper, being outsped by just about every relevant Scarfer after +1, as well as being outsped by Mega Alakazam. It also has a lot of desirable coverage that Rock teams would really appreciate(Superpower, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Earthquake)that it unfortunately can't fit all into one set due to its STAB moves being essential and Fire Punch being important for the threat that is Mega Scizor. Another thing is that it'll be facing competition from Mega Aerodactyl, who has an amazing Speed tier and can outspeed a lot of the boosted metagame with Shuckle's Sticky Web without needing to set up like Mega Tyranitar does. It also offers more in the incredibly difficult Grass, Bug, Fighting, and even Ground matchups. Overall, it has its merits, but unfortunately can't hold too much ground on Rock teams, and the fact that regular Tyranitar with an Assault Vest is already a better and more viable asset just makes Mega Tyranitar more worthy of B rank.

On Dark, Mega Tyranitar has it even worse. Unlike Rock, Mega Tyranitar will have even more Mega Evolutions to compete with. On Balanced Dark teams, Mega Sableye is already solidified as a staple for the archetype, and regular Tyranitar with Leftovers/Babiri Berry is far more effective with passive sustain/checking more threats if it's Babiri Berry. On offensive Dark teams, Mega Houndoom and Mega Sharpedo are generally the superior choices, with Mega Houndoom serving as a strong special sweeper/wallbreaker with a fantastic Speed tier that can break through Fairy and Steel cores rather easily, and Mega Sharpedo being an incredible cleaner that offers Dark teams a potent tool in the otherwise incredibly difficult Ground matchup. Just like on Rock teams, and on Balanced Dark teams, regular Tyranitar would be a better option with potentially a Choice Banded wallbreaking set or a bulky Stealth Rocking set without even having to use up a Mega slot. Mega Tyranitar simply won't see much usage, if any, on Dark teams and should be placed in C rank.

Here is Mega Tyranitar's most effective set:
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Superpower / Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
 
Alright so I was saving my thoughts on the newly released Mega Evolutions until after I had finished testing each one, and here are my thoughts:




Mega Abomasnow: Unranked=>Stays unranked (Grass) and Unranked=>D (Ice)

Right from the start, me and probably a lot of other people knew that Mega Abomasnow would be terrible and irrelevant. On Grass, it's pretty obvious why Mega Abomasnow has no place when Mega Venusaur is the undisputed best Grass mega. On Ice, while it does have some solid natural bulk of 90/105/105, its awful defensive typing makes it very hard to use that bulk effectively. And with its absolutely terrible Speed stat, it can't use its amazing offenses all that well, with its terrible Speed and even worse typing will make it extremely easy to revenge kill. Not to mention the obvious points of Alolan Ninetales making just about every other hail setter obselete, and the fact that its effectiveness in the Water matchup doesn't matter all that much when Ice already rips Water to shreds. It's definitely not worthy of C rank, since Aurorus at least offers a bit more utility as a hail setter, and Mega Glalie's decent Speed tier and good offenses make it more desirable as a Mega. It still has its slight merits, so for Ice, I believe it should be D rank.



Mega Manectric: Unranked=>B

Mega Manectric's appeal has definitely been diminished quite a bit by the introduction of Tapu Koko, who generally offers far more for the type and can hit harder when holding a Life Orb. However, it still a few things it can offer for Electric teams. One of which is a powerful Fire type move in Flamethrower that it has over Tapu Koko, allowing it to deal with Ferrothorn and Excadrill. With Intimidate, it can weaken powerful physical threats and can easily Volt Switch pivot right out, allowing Rotom-Wash or Zapdos to handle them more easily. It also has a small benefit in its pre-Mega ability, which can be very helpful when preventing opposing Electric teams from constantly Volt Switch pivoting. While I can't see it finding much use on Electric, it still offers a bit more compared to the other C ranks like Galvantula and Eelektross, which is why I think it deserves a spot on B rank.

Here is what I think is Mega Manectric's best set right now:
Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]




Mega Tyranitar: Unranked=>B (Rock) and Unranked=>C (Dark)

On Rock, Mega Tyranitar will definitely have its benefits. With the Dragon Dance set, alongside Shuckle's Sticky Web support, it's capable of mowing through types like Psychic and potentially Fire with 1 or 2 Dragon Dances under its belt. However, without that Sticky Web support, it's incredibly slow for a setup sweeper, being outsped by just about every relevant Scarfer after +1, as well as being outsped by Mega Alakazam. It also has a lot of desirable coverage that Rock teams would really appreciate(Superpower, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Earthquake)that it unfortunately can't fit all into one set due to its STAB moves being essential and Fire Punch being important for the threat that is Mega Scizor. Another thing is that it'll be facing competition from Mega Aerodactyl, who has an amazing Speed tier and can outspeed a lot of the boosted metagame with Shuckle's Sticky Web without needing to set up like Mega Tyranitar does. It also offers more in the incredibly difficult Grass, Bug, Fighting, and even Ground matchups. Overall, it has its merits, but unfortunately can't hold too much ground on Rock teams, and the fact that regular Tyranitar with an Assault Vest is already a better and more viable asset just makes Mega Tyranitar more worthy of B rank.

On Dark, Mega Tyranitar has it even worse. Unlike Rock, Mega Tyranitar will have even more Mega Evolutions to compete with. On Balanced Dark teams, Mega Sableye is already solidified as a staple for the archetype, and regular Tyranitar with Leftovers/Babiri Berry is far more effective with passive sustain/checking more threats if it's Babiri Berry. On offensive Dark teams, Mega Houndoom and Mega Sharpedo are generally the superior choices, with Mega Houndoom serving as a strong special sweeper/wallbreaker with a fantastic Speed tier that can break through Fairy and Steel cores rather easily, and Mega Sharpedo being an incredible cleaner that offers Dark teams a potent tool in the otherwise incredibly difficult Ground matchup. Just like on Rock teams, and on Balanced Dark teams, regular Tyranitar would be a better option with potentially a Choice Banded wallbreaking set or a bulky Stealth Rocking set without even having to use up a Mega slot. Mega Tyranitar simply won't see much usage, if any, on Dark teams and should be placed in C rank.

Here is Mega Tyranitar's most effective set:
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Superpower / Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Its a bit early to say what's the best set for these mons imo.
 
Its a bit early to say what's the best set for these mons imo.
While these Megas haven't been around for a while yet, it should still be pretty safe to assume that, regarding Mega Tyranitar, its Dragon Dance set is the only particularly worthwhile one it has. Its other potential sets are either done better by Tyranitar(bulky Stealth Rocker), or they simply don't offer enough to warrant its use at all over Mega Aerodactyl on Rock or Mega Houndoom/Sharpedo/Sableye on Dark. On Mega Manectric, I suppose Overheat could be a potential possibility over Flamethrower(always OHKOes Tapu Bulu and Excadrill from full health whereas Flamethrower wouldn't finish them off), but Tbolt and Volt Switch should be a given and I wouldn't think that it could pull off any other Hidden Power more effectively than Ice.
 
I'll address some of the concerns regarding the most recent VR update. Vid and I decided to revamp a lot of the lower tier types' rankings by removing the way too niche Pokemon and shifting the lower rankings around.

smub
A fully Speed-invested set is just not going to be bulky at all. You point out that Timid outspeeds Mega Scizor, but:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bug Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 391-462 (108.3 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

Offensive Mega Scizor will beat even a fast Walrein pretty much every time. Offensive Mega Scizor isn't really a factor, since it loses anyway.

Compare Walrein to Lapras. Effectively, they are equal against Mega Scizor because neither can OHKO Mega Scizor at 100% HP with Hidden Power Fire. So, let's consider other uses.

First, Lapras always survives any +1 Magearna attack other than Twinkle Tackle and Focus Blast or a +0 Twinkle Tackle or Focus Blast, allowing it to fire off a powerful attack and probably KO Magearna. Only TR Magearna, which is Modest, has a chance to OHKO Lapras (And it's 18.8%). Walrein, on the other hand, cannot say the same for either Twinkle Tackle or a +1 attack.

Another example of the problem with your Walrein is that AV Celesteela 2HKOes with Giga Drain. That's kind of an issue when Walrein cannot really do anything back.

Lapras also has Freeze-Dry, allowing it to actually be useful against Water-types. This means Lapras isn't setup bait for Azumarill because Freeze-Dry almost always OHKOes it. Also, Lapras outspeeds 199 Speed Azumarill, so even if Kyurem-B gets chipped down by Tapu Bulu, Azumarill still cannot just sweep. This also means nothing on Flying switches into Lapras safely before it locks into a move because Skarmory, Mantine, and Zapdos drop to Freeze-Dry, and Surf 2HKOes Mega Charizard Y and Solar Beam does not OHKO. Walrein just completely gets walled by Mantine without question.

As a whole, it just doesn't make sense to use Walrein to me over Lapras for any reason other than Thick Fat. Lapras is just better in all other circumstances.
I was expecting this because a couple of Grass-type users believe Whimsicott is good and repeat that claim over and over without any real substantiation. Unfortunately, that simply isn't the case. Your argument is pretty much identical to juleocesar's, and I broke that one down completely last time. Here's the response I gave him: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-sm-viability-rankings.3589809/page-7#post-7266699

At the time, there were some that said it might even be C, but we decided to take it conservatively and left it at B for a while. However, it's clear over the past few months that Whimiscott can't even really compete with its fellow B rankers, so it's been moved down even more.

Celebi does everything Whimsicott does but better, other than beat the very relevant types in Dark and Dragon. Rotom-C can't even really be compared because it has a completely different role, but its pivoting power beats out U-turn Whimsicott. Serperior is just a much better fast attacker. There's just no reason to use Whimsicott over the other B-rank Pokemon.
Fundamentally, the issue with Chandelure is it just has no place anywhere at all. Teams that need a Choice Scarf user will use Gengar. Teams that need a wallbreaker will use Hoopa. Teams that need a Fire-type will use Alolan Marowak. It just doesn't do anything valuable, so it just cannot really ever find room on teams. The VR is comparative. Compared to Gengar, Hoopa, and Alolan Marowak, Chandelure just doesn't cut it. As a result, Chandelure cannot be B alongside Hoopa. Chandelure doesn't even compress roles because Gengar and Alolan Marowak are used on almost every team. I don't think Chandelure is bad, but it's not as good, and that's all that really matters
The whole point of a suicide lead is to lead. What momentum does your team have early? Furthermore, Sticky Web is just so important for HO Rock teams. With Mental Herb, Shuckle can actually beat Deoxys-S leads too, which are super common due to HO Psychic. Aerodactyl is simply significantly worse than the main alternative. Instead of above in B, it fits much better in a viability tier with Diancie, another niche but legitimately viable suicide lead. Even if you argue Aerodactyl is superior to Diancie (which has its entire own playstyle for what it's worth), it is absolutely not a whole rank better.


Tyke
I too long supported Decidueye for at least being as good as its Grass / Ghost brethren, but I couldn't continue arguing for it.

On Ghost, it just has no use. Dhelmise is better offensively and Gourgeist-XL is better defensively. I understand the concept of going in between the two extremes, but Decidueye doesn't become a "more balanced version" but a "bad at everything version". It doesn't help that Dhelmise is actually not even bad defensively either and also has access to hazard control, so Decidueye just doesn't cut it in Ghost. (Pivoting would be great if Decidueye actually forced switches or Ghost had a way to effectively use a pivot)

On Grass, somehow, the pivoting set is somehow even worse. With Ferrothorn and Cradily doing hazard stack, you absolutely don't want to be running Defog. Dhelmise's Rapid Spin is just way better if you want a defensive pivot that has hazard control. The SD set is the only thing that even keeps Decidueye D rank. However, Dhelmise literally also has a bulky SD + Z-Move set too, but it has better coverage and is stronger when not using the Z-Move (only very marginally weaker with Z-Moves in play). Decidueye's only niche and the only reason it's even D rank at all is because of Roost. It's definitely worse than Dhelmise, so it should stay D rank.
The issue with Minior is a question of when it's going to be used. I think it's worse than Tyrantrum, which is already pretty not good. Tyrantrum doesn't require a Z-Move to break defensive checks and doesn't just drop to any random attacks that hit it. Tyrantrum being slower is much less of an issue than it would seem because of Sticky Web, so Minior's blisteringly fast Speed doesn't mean much. Tyrantrum is also just generally more useful before it sets up too, since Head Smash is ridiculously powerful. I'd be okay with revisiting this one, but I don't think Minior can really compete when it's so reliant on setting up and doesn't really set up that easily in the first place.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
New Changes
Here's next changes including the preliminary Ranks for the new Megas that were released
Ice
Walrein A--->B
Mega Glalie B--->C
Articuno C--->D
Beartic C--->D
Glaceon D--->Unranked
Water
Mega Swampert Unranked--->A
Primarina Unranked--->C
Mega Gyarados A--->B
Sharpedo B--->D
Seismitoad B--->C
Grass
Tapu Bulu A--->S
Mega Sceptile Unranked--->D
Whimsicott B--->C
Ludicolo D--->Unranked
Decidueye C---->D
Bug
Mega Heracross Unranked--->A
Dark
Mega Houndoom Unranked--->A
Sharpedo B--->C
Sableye Unranked--->C
Fighting
Mega Heracross Unranked--->A
Kommo-o A--->B
Pangoro B--->C
Ground
Mega Swampert Unranked--->D
Fire
Mega Houndoom Unranked--->D
Rotom-Heat B--->A
Fairy
Tapu Fini A--->B
Primarina Unranked--->C
Whimsicott C--->D
Flying
Salamence B--->C
Minior C--->D
Tornadus D--->Unranked
Talonflame C--->D
Honchkrow C--->D
Normal
Heliolisk B--->C
Dodrio C--->D
Drampa C--->D
Silvally D--->Unranked
Braviary D--->Unranked
Ghost
Cofagrigus D--->C
Sableye C---->D
Froslass C--->D
Decidueye C--->D
Chandelure B--->C
Doublade B--->C
Dragon
Latias A--->B
Noivern D--->Unranked
Kingdra C--->D
Kommo-o B--->C
Flygon C--->D
Rock
Archeops C--->Unranked
Aerodactyl B--->C
Diancie B--->C
Minior C--->D
Psychic
Necrozma C--->D
Gothitelle B--->A
I'm still confused as to why Jynx is not being considered as at least D. It is faster than Mamoswine, letting it take advantage of a Modest Nature for Scarf sets catching up in offensive prowess to a Jolly Mamoswine.

Lovely Kiss allows it to respond to its own counters on their switch, and it's extensive coverage from Focus Blast, to STAB Psyshock for mixed sets allows it severely hurt Steel (Ferrothorn), Rock (Tyranitar), and Fighting (Buzzwole) types that normally threaten Ice teams most. Just looking at the above list, Jynx can threaten many high-ranking Mega Pokémon such as Mega-Gyarados, Mega-Heracross, Mega-Swampert, Mega-Houndoom, and threaten Thick Fat Mega-Venusaur with STAB Psyshock... on top of the countless Dragon, Flying, Grass, and Ground types threatened by Ice Beam alone, as well as Poison Types like Scolipede that aren't threatened by Scarf Mamoswine's Earthquake, or Tentacruel/Keldo which threaten Mamoswine with their STAB.

Dry Skin offers opportunities for switch in, and can allow for absorbing priority Aqua Jets from Azumarill, something that fast Ice types like Scarf Mamoswine and or even weakened Weavile struggle against most.

D-ranking isn't much to ask for on a Pokémon used when you need as much coverage in a Scarf user as possible: Lovely Kiss + Focus Blast, Psyshock, Energy Ball/Grass Knot, Ice Beam, etc.
 
Last edited:
I'll address some of the concerns regarding the most recent VR update. Vid and I decided to revamp a lot of the lower tier types' rankings by removing the way too niche Pokemon and shifting the lower rankings around.

smub
A fully Speed-invested set is just not going to be bulky at all. You point out that Timid outspeeds Mega Scizor, but:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bug Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 391-462 (108.3 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

Offensive Mega Scizor will beat even a fast Walrein pretty much every time. Offensive Mega Scizor isn't really a factor, since it loses anyway.

Compare Walrein to Lapras. Effectively, they are equal against Mega Scizor because neither can OHKO Mega Scizor at 100% HP with Hidden Power Fire. So, let's consider other uses.

First, Lapras always survives any +1 Magearna attack other than Twinkle Tackle and Focus Blast or a +0 Twinkle Tackle or Focus Blast, allowing it to fire off a powerful attack and probably KO Magearna. Only TR Magearna, which is Modest, has a chance to OHKO Lapras (And it's 18.8%). Walrein, on the other hand, cannot say the same for either Twinkle Tackle or a +1 attack.

Another example of the problem with your Walrein is that AV Celesteela 2HKOes with Giga Drain. That's kind of an issue when Walrein cannot really do anything back.

Lapras also has Freeze-Dry, allowing it to actually be useful against Water-types. This means Lapras isn't setup bait for Azumarill because Freeze-Dry almost always OHKOes it. Also, Lapras outspeeds 199 Speed Azumarill, so even if Kyurem-B gets chipped down by Tapu Bulu, Azumarill still cannot just sweep. This also means nothing on Flying switches into Lapras safely before it locks into a move because Skarmory, Mantine, and Zapdos drop to Freeze-Dry, and Surf 2HKOes Mega Charizard Y and Solar Beam does not OHKO. Walrein just completely gets walled by Mantine without question.

As a whole, it just doesn't make sense to use Walrein to me over Lapras for any reason other than Thick Fat. Lapras is just better in all other circumstances.
I agreed with what you said about my other nominations, and that I missed some pretty big points. However, regarding Walrein, I disagree about quite a few things. First, why would a Walrein even be staying in against an Assault Vest Celesteela? Especially when it's not even doing very notable damage:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Walrein Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Celesteela: 129-153 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO

So yeah, it shouldn't be much of an issue since no Ice player would just leave a Walrein in on an Assault Vest Celesteela knowing that it'll hardly be doing sufficient damage and that they have a Kyurem-Black to deal with it. Regarding Azumarill just sweeping, Ice has other ways of preventing this from happening: the lesser likely scenario of keeping Mamoswine's Sash intact vs Fairy, and the more likely scenario of just phasing it out with Avalugg. And mentioning Flying doesn't mean much since, while it is a really prevalent type, Ice already has an extremely favorable matchup against it, so Walrein being roadblocked won't necessarily mean too much in the long run. However, I can agree with your other points about offensive Mega Scizor, and Lapras having a better movepool. To tell the truth, I myself have always preferred Lapras over Walrein, but I still always saw them as more or less equivalents at what they do. However, I can now see some of Walrein's shortcomings and will probably still be using Lapras over it.

I'm still confused as to why Jynx is not being considered as at least D. It is faster than Mamoswine, letting it take advantage of a Modest Nature for Scarf sets catching up in offensive prowess to a Jolly Mamoswine.

Lovely Kiss allows it to respond to its own counters on their switch, and it's extensive coverage from Focus Blast, to STAB Psyshock for mixed sets allows it severely hurt Steel (Ferrothorn), Rock (Tyranitar), and Fighting (Buzzwole) types that normally threaten Ice teams most. Just looking at the above list, Jynx can threaten many high-ranking Mega Pokémon such as Mega-Gyarados, Mega-Heracross, Mega-Swampert, Mega-Houndoom, and threaten Thick Fat Mega-Venusaur with STAB Psyshock... on top of the countless Dragon, Flying, Grass, and Ground types threatened by Ice Beam alone, as well as Poison Types like Scolipede that aren't threatened by Scarf Mamoswine's Earthquake, or Tentacruel/Keldo which threaten Mamoswine with their STAB.

Dry Skin offers opportunities for switch in, and can allow for absorbing priority Aqua Jets from Azumarill, something that fast Ice types like Scarf Mamoswine and or even weakened Weavile struggle against most.

D-ranking isn't much to ask for on a Pokémon used when you need as much coverage in a Scarf user as possible: Lovely Kiss + Focus Blast, Psyshock, Energy Ball/Grass Knot, Ice Beam, etc.
There are quite a lot of flaws in this argument. First, even if Jynx were to ever run Scarf, it wouldn't afford to go Modest since it would need to be outspeeding Scarf Heracross and Excadrill, which are rather huge threats to the type. Now for the examples you brought up:

Ferrothorn: Scarf sets won't even be 2HKOing with Focus Blast most of the time, and Ferrothorn can simply OHKO back with either a Gyro Ball or a Power Whip.

Tyranitar: Already easily checked by Mamoswine, which should be on just about any good Ice team, and Jynx can't OHKO any variant with Focus Blast.

Buzzwole: If you're running Psyshock, you won't OHKO any variant. Besides, Avalugg already switches into Choice Scarf sets and Banded sets are checked by Alolan Ninetales, which is not only essential to Ice teams but is one of your largest assets in the Fighting matchup.

And for the later examples you brought up, Mega Gyarados, Mega Houndoom, Mega Swampert, and Mega Heracross are not "high-ranking Mega Pokemon" since they're more commonly seen on either low or mid-tier types. Now to dissect these:

Mega Gyarados: Even Modest Scarf sets can't OHKO with Focus Blast, and Scarf Kyurem-Black can actually live a +1 hit as it 2HKOes with Fusion Bolt and Avalugg can simply phase it out easily.

Mega Houndoom: Scarf Mamoswine will be guaranteeing the OHKO with Earthquake, Scarf Kyurem-Black has a higher OHKO chance with Outrage, and Piloswine can rather easily switch into any unboosted attack:

252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 126-150 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 77.8% chance to 3HKO

Mega Swampert: Already easily beaten by Alolan Ninetales's Freeze Dry, and won't even have to worry about being outsped due to Snow Warning taking away Mega Swampert's rain.

Mega Heracross: Ice shouldn't have much trouble wearing it down to within Alolan Ninetales Moonblast range, with so many faster Pokemon that can wear it down(Mamoswine, Kyurem-Black, Weavile, Alolan Sandslash under hail).

Mega Venusaur: Not only does it take more from Psychic, but Kyurem-Black already easily checks Mega Venusaur with Ice Beam, while at the same time isn't susceptible to being Pursuit trapped by the Alolan Muk switching in.

Regarding what you said about Scolipede, Mamoswine is clicking Stone Edge against it, not Earthquake. And why even bring it up when it'll be outspeeding Jynx after a single Speed Boost and blowing it away with Megahorn? Tentacruel is already destroyed by Earthquake, and Keldeo is already checked by Alolan Ninetales and Scarf Kyurem-Black.

And for Azumarill, Lapras already has that Water immunity with Water Absorb, while also not being chipped away each turn under sun, actually OHKOing Azumarill with a Specs Freeze Dry, and providing an essential role as a Mega Scizor check for Ice.

Just saying, if you want Jynx to be bumped up, you need better and more relevant examples than these.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Ferrothorn: Scarf sets won't even be 2HKOing with Focus Blast most of the time, and Ferrothorn can simply OHKO back with either a Gyro Ball or a Power Whip.

Tyranitar: Already easily checked by Mamoswine, which should be on just about any good Ice team, and Jynx can't OHKO any variant with Focus Blast.

Buzzwole: If you're running Psyshock, you won't OHKO any variant. Besides, Avalugg already switches into Choice Scarf sets and Banded sets are checked by Alolan Ninetales, which is not only essential to Ice teams but is one of your largest assets in the Fighting matchup.

And for the later examples you brought up, Mega Gyarados, Mega Houndoom, Mega Swampert, and Mega Heracross are not "high-ranking Mega Pokemon" since they're more commonly seen on either low or mid-tier types. Now to dissect these:

Mega Gyarados: Even Modest Scarf sets can't OHKO with Focus Blast, and Scarf Kyurem-Black can actually live a +1 hit as it 2HKOes with Fusion Bolt and Avalugg can simply phase it out easily.

Mega Houndoom: Scarf Mamoswine will be guaranteeing the OHKO with Earthquake, Scarf Kyurem-Black has a higher OHKO chance with Outrage, and Piloswine can rather easily switch into any unboosted attack:

252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 126-150 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 77.8% chance to 3HKO

Mega Swampert: Already easily beaten by Alolan Ninetales's Freeze Dry, and won't even have to worry about being outsped due to Snow Warning taking away Mega Swampert's rain.

Mega Heracross: Ice shouldn't have much trouble wearing it down to within Alolan Ninetales Moonblast range, with so many faster Pokemon that can wear it down(Mamoswine, Kyurem-Black, Weavile, Alolan Sandslash under hail).

Mega Venusaur: Not only does it take more from Psychic, but Kyurem-Black already easily checks Mega Venusaur with Ice Beam, while at the same time isn't susceptible to being Pursuit trapped by the Alolan Muk switching in.

Regarding what you said about Scolipede, Mamoswine is clicking Stone Edge against it, not Earthquake. And why even bring it up when it'll be outspeeding Jynx after a single Speed Boost and blowing it away with Megahorn? Tentacruel is already destroyed by Earthquake, and Keldeo is already checked by Alolan Ninetales and Scarf Kyurem-Black.

And for Azumarill, Lapras already has that Water immunity with Water Absorb, while also not being chipped away each turn under sun, actually OHKOing Azumarill with a Specs Freeze Dry, and providing an essential role as a Mega Scizor check for Ice.

Just saying, if you want Jynx to be bumped up, you need better and more relevant examples than these.
The ones I mentioned were on the updated VR rankings, which were A, S, and couple B ranked... uhhhh

Anyways, Jynx isn't a lead sweeper, it's a late game cleaner KOing things after the game has past the mid point to where they are weakened... again, if Glaceon was D Ranked but had to be Timid before it would be fast enough with a a Scarf, why can't Jynx be used with better coverage and comparable power with a modest nature vs glaceon with timid
Jynx is when you have just 1 slot left that needs coverage on many things, not replacing Kyurem or Weavile
D= niche but still viable on some occasions, not asking for much
 
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OM! sorry I missed your question to Vid, I'll respond for him. For now, Jynx won't be getting ranked. Its main role is, as you mentioned, to be a Choice Scarf user. As further utility, it has Dry Skin and Heal Bell.

The problem is that Ice just doesn't need another revenge killer or late-game cleaner. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is a quickly fading out set, but I'd still use it every time before I dig into trying to use Jynx. Weavile is a very fast threat that can both revenge kill and clean as well, and it's much more useful outside of just doing that too thanks to Pursuit and Knock Off utility. Cloyster is a fantastic late-game cleaner thanks to Shell Smash, and Alolan Sandslash (and Beartic lol) is generally just more useful. There's even Choice Scarf Articuno with a decently powerful Hurricane.

Because its main role is just completely unviable, we can look at its utility in Dry Skin and Heal Bell. Dry Skin is pretty useless when Jynx loses to every offensive Water-type and Lapras is used on most good Ice teams anyway. Heal Bell is cute but Ice really doesn't need cleric support. Nothing really cares a lot about status because usually Ice-types just faint anyway. Heal Bell won't be used almost at all. If you really want Heal Bell, just use Articuno, which can even pack much more useful utility in Freeze-Dry, U-turn, and Defog and has recovery in Roost.

When every team has a Pokemon that outclasses Jynx in all of its actually usable roles, Jynx doesn't even have a niche at all. Even when compared to the other D ranks, Jynx just can't keep up, so it's going to stay unranked for now.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
OM! sorry I missed your question to Vid, I'll respond for him. For now, Jynx won't be getting ranked. Its main role is, as you mentioned, to be a Choice Scarf user. As further utility, it has Dry Skin and Heal Bell.

The problem is that Ice just doesn't need another revenge killer or late-game cleaner. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is a quickly fading out set, but I'd still use it every time before I dig into trying to use Jynx. Weavile is a very fast threat that can both revenge kill and clean as well, and it's much more useful outside of just doing that too thanks to Pursuit and Knock Off utility. Cloyster is a fantastic late-game cleaner thanks to Shell Smash, and Alolan Sandslash (and Beartic lol) is generally just more useful. There's even Choice Scarf Articuno with a decently powerful Hurricane.

Because its main role is just completely unviable, we can look at its utility in Dry Skin and Heal Bell. Dry Skin is pretty useless when Jynx loses to every offensive Water-type and Lapras is used on most good Ice teams anyway. Heal Bell is cute but Ice really doesn't need cleric support. Nothing really cares a lot about status because usually Ice-types just faint anyway. Heal Bell won't be used almost at all. If you really want Heal Bell, just use Articuno, which can even pack much more useful utility in Freeze-Dry, U-turn, and Defog and has recovery in Roost.

When every team has a Pokemon that outclasses Jynx in all of its actually usable roles, Jynx doesn't even have a niche at all. Even when compared to the other D ranks, Jynx just can't keep up, so it's going to stay unranked for now.
Got it, since the only other D rank at the time was Glaceon, I only thought to myself "What about Jynx?" simply since Glaceon was there.

Although I would like to highlight Lovely Kiss, and Trick as moves that other Scarfers don't carry. Still, I guess you could just use Froslass for Trick and Destiny Bond, but Lovely Kiss doesn't cost a KO unless it misses.
 
Hopefully I don't completely screw these up



Buzzwole: A=>B (Both Bug and Fighting)

Buzzwole's roles have started to fade away with the release of Mega Heracross. As a Banded wallbreaker, while it will be dealing more damage than unboosted Mega Heracross, it doesn't have a spammable Fighting STAB, diminishing its wallbreaking potential quite a bit. It also fails to break certain defensive cores that Mega Heracross can tear through with the appropriate coverage, such as Swampert+Mantine+Toxapex on Balanced Water, Hippowdon+Gastrodon on Ground, and Rotom-Wash+Zapdos on Electric. As a Choice Scarfer, regular Heracross generally performs the job better due to having more spammable Fighting STAB to take advantage of Moxie better than Buzzwole takes advantage of Beast Boost. It also has a more powerful Bug STAB, which helps Fighting teams more against the problematic Psychic matchup, and can outspeed Choice Scarf Togekiss(who isn't affected by the Sticky Web that Bug puts up), and Mega Alakazam without the need of Sticky Web. While Buzzwole still has its great natural physical bulk and has decent coverage in Ice Punch to aid in the Ground and Dragon matchups, it sadly doesn't measure up to Heracross or Mega Heracross, and should be dropped to B rank on both its types.


Infernape: A=>S (Fire)

With the introduction of Nihilego, Fire is at a near autoloss against Scarf sets without Infernape. Infernape is without a doubt Fire's best form of speed control, proving to be a valuable asset in matchups such as Poison, Rock, Dark, Normal, and even Water. Its solid coverage allows it to check threats such as +1 Gyarados, +1 Salamence, +1 Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Nihilego, Dragonite, Greninja, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Sharpedo. Additionally, with U-turn, it can form a VoltTurn core with Rotom-Heat to generate momentum, which for an offensive type like Fire is extremely important. Even outside of Scarf sets, it also pulls off Banded wallbreaking sets effectively. It's still capable of checking Pokemon like Greninja and Mega Sharpedo, but Banded sets give Fire more of a chance against the monster that is Double Dance Terrakion, picking it off after a little bit of prior chip damage. With its amazing speed control, pivoting, and checking many monstrous threats for the type, Infernape is a solid pick on just about any Fire team and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here are some of Infernape's best sets right now:
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

Infernape @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge / U-turn




Cradily: A=>S (Grass)

I made this nomination much earlier, so I'll probably be re-iterating a lot of the points I made then. Cradily forms an essential part of Grass's defensive core due to being the type's best Stealth Rocker, which is invaluable for Grass teams when facing unfavorable matchups like Fire, Flying, Bug, Poison, Ice, and Psychic. Its great bulk and access to Recover makes it an incredible Fire and Flying sponge, making it THE single greatest defensive check for Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, which is undescribably essential to Grass. With the roles it offers being so important for Grass teams, and being a large part of Grass's defensive core, Cradily is fully deserving of S rank on Grass.

Here's what I think is Cradily's best set right now:
Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Recover




Porygon-Z: S=>A

While Porygon-Z is undoubtedly an amazing wincon for Normal teams, it doesn't quite measure up to the other S ranks on Normal, with Chansey being one of the greatest special walls in the metagame and the type's best Stealth Rocker, Porygon2 being the type's best check to Mega Scizor as well as being the best physical wall for Normal, and Staraptor not only being Normal's best Fighting switch in, but the type's best Defogger and Scarfer on offensive Normal teams. Porygon-Z's Speed, while not completely terrible, is only average at best, leaving it outsped by a large portion of Scarfers in the metagame such as Landorus-Therian, Victini, Infernape, Terrakion, Hydreigon Latios, and Gengar, while also having some average bulk even after the increase from Z-Conversion. This usually results in it either getting taken out or being forced out, losing the boosts from Z-Conversion and not being able to set up ever again. Its susceptibility to being revenge killed is mostly dependent on what type it transforms into. If it becomes a Ghost, it'll just be left more susceptible to Scarf Gengar and Hydreigon, as well as Sucker Punch users like Bisharp and Pursuit trappers like Alolan Muk and Tyranitar. If it turns into an Electric type, it's left open to Scarf Landorus-Therian and Garchomp, as well as Excadrill in sand and Mega Swampert in rain. I feel as though Porygon-Z, while being an incredible wincon, doesn't quite offer enough compared to the other S ranks and is more suitable in A rank.



Diggersby: A=>S (Normal)

Diggersby is without a doubt one of Normal's best wallbreakers and is one of the main reasons Normal excels in top-tier matchups like Electric and Poison, as well as breaking through Steel with Earthquake+Fire Punch. Additionally, it also has access to Knock Off, which greatly helps in Normal mirrors when dealing with the Eviolite core of Chansey+Porygon2, and U-turn, which provides a great source of momentum to both Offensive and Balanced Normal teams. Despite its rather lacking Speed tier, it can still serve as an effective revenge killer with Quick Attack, being able to pick off Alolan Raichu a lot of the time after Stealth Rock and having a chance to remove Azumarill after it goes for a Z-Belly Drum. Diggersby is simply an amazing pick on Normal teams of any archetype, and is more than worthy of S rank on Normal.

Here's what I think is Diggersby's best set right now:
Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Knock Off / U-turn




Shuckle: A=>S (Rock)

Shuckle is easily Rock's best hazard setter and speed control option with Sticky Web. With this Sticky Web support, it provides Rock's wallbreakers/sweepers like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Nihilego, Omastar, and Mega Aerodactyl a much better shot against problematic matchups such as Steel, Bug, Ground, Fairy, and especially Fighting. In addition to this, Shuckle's great defenses and Grass and Fighting neutralities let it switch into Pokemon like Breloom and Mega Venusaur rather easily. With access to Knock Off, although Rock doesn't have many issues with Normal's Eviolite core, it's still great for removing Choice Scarves from threats like Terrakion, Keldeo, and Heracross. Encore is simply amazing utility for Rock teams, not only leaving setup sweepers exposed, but also giving Shuckle an easier time setting up with Sticky Web and Stealth Rock. With the amazing utility Shuckle provides, it solidifies itself as a fantastic option for just about any Rock team and is definitely deserving of S rank on Rock.

Here's what I think is Shuckle's best set right now:
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Encore
 
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