OU Magnezone (Substitute Z)

Finchinator

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OU Leader
Live footage of Corkskrew Crash Magnezone in action can be seen above​

[SET]
name: Substitute Z
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Electrium Z / Steelium Z
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Substitute is intended to be used to take advantage of Celesteela using Protect mainly, but it also is nice for when Steel-types give Magnezone a free turn or to avoid predicting a single opposing Pokemon coming in and having pick between Magnezone's dual STAB attacks. Thunderbolt can be used in conjunction with Electrium Z in order to OHKO Pokemon like Celesteela or offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. Flash Cannon can be used in conjunction with Steelium Z over Electrium Z to kill get a KO on incoming Landorus-T, Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and Latios with Stealth Rock up. Hidden Power Fire is utilized in order to rid the opposing team of Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, both of which Magnezone frequently traps.

Set Details
========

The EVs are straightforward, maximizing the damage output of the various special attacks Magnezone is using while being as fast as possible, allowing Magnezone to outrun Pokemon such as uninvested Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, Suicune, and specially defensive Heatran. A Modest nature is used in order to maximize damage output. This allows Magnezone to always KO offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock and almost always do so against Shift Gear Magearna if using Electrium Z. Additionally, Modest nature assures an OHKO on offensive Landorus-T from full and almost always OHKOs Garchomp, defensive Landorus-T, or Latios after Stealth Rock if using Steelium Z. The only reasons to use Timid are assuring Magnezone outruns bulky Landorus-T and Choice Band Tyranitar, but you lose out on most of the KOs Magnezone gets with Steelium Z and Electrium Z, and Magnezone simply doesn't stay in on these Pokemon unless a Substitute is up, so this is rarely worthwhile. On the topic of the aforementioned items, Steelium Z is used when you do not truly need to OHKO Steel-types like Celesteela and Heatran and would prefer to split the niche of Magnezone to also eliminate incoming offensive pivots, whereas Electrium Z is used when your focus solely is upon abusing Magnet Pull to the best of Magnezone's ability. If you have another Z move and feel that using the Substitute trapper set is still ideal, then you can opt to use Life Orb as it will give you sufficient damage output. However, the combination of Substitute and Life Orb is not always ideal.

Usage Tips
========

Unlike the Assault Vest variant of Magnezone, the goals of this set are to eliminate any Steel-type that Magnezone may encounter and do as much damage as possible when not facing a Steel-type. Moreover, utilization of Substitute to make Magnezone less prediction reliant is key, and this should be kept in mind when trying to make the most use of Magnezone in the battle. This Magnezone should not be used as a consistent defensive countermeasure against anything. Unlike the Assault Vest variant, Magnezone has mediocre special bulk and only passable physical bulk, leaving the niche on the offensive end of the spectrum. Substitute is also useful when you expect the opponent to use moves such as Protect, Sucker Punch, and Leech Seed. It is best to bring Magnezone into battle when you expect a vulnerable Steel-type like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, or Celesteela to come in. Alternatively, if they manage to get in, switching Magnezone in to trap them is a good idea if you believe they will stay in.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that abuse the removal of opposing Steel-types are generally ideal. The main Pokemon being removed are Celesteela, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Moreover, the best abusers of this tend to be strong physical attackers that are troubled with the aforementioned threats; some examples are Mega Pinsir, Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Landorus-T. Alternatively, Pokemon that simply do not fair well against Steel-types such as Tapu Lele, Latios, and Mega Diancie can all work well alongside this variant of Magnezone. Finally, if you are using Steelium Z as your item, then you should put specific emphasis on the luring in of Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde when building. Fire-types like Heatran and Rock-types like Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar take advantage of this. On the contrary, if you are using Electrium Z, then the same can be said for removal of Celesteela and integrating Pokemon such as the aforementioned Tapu Lele or Latios to your team.

fuck Gary
 
Last edited:

GMars

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evs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Change SAtk to SpA
...but it also is nice for when Steel types give you a free turn or when you do not want to ease prediction between your dual STABs when forcing a switch.
Do you mean when you do want to ease prediction rather than do not
Stealth Rocks
Colonel M
Modest nature is used in order to maximize damage output.
Give a few specific examples here on KOs or 2HKOs that Modest nets over Timid, like a Z kill on SG Magearna after Rocks for example
Feel like I should add a bit more here, but nothing is coming to mind -- qc lmk, otherwise I'll leave it at this I suppose
Add in how and when to bring Magnezone into battle, since this variant lacks defensive utility.
Your call on whether or not you want to mention that Gigavolt Havoc is marginally stronger than HP Fire against Mega Scizor, guaranteeing a KO after rocks against most variants if you don't need to save your z move against another target. Also gives a nice 50% chance to OHKO max HP variants from full whereas hidden power fire needs a max roll
Finally, if you are using Steelium as your item, then you should put specific emphasis on the luring in of Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde when building
Mention a few examples of pokemon that want those Ground-types removed

Good stuff man, QC 1/3


600th post yuh
 

Finchinator

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OU Leader
Change SAtk to SpA

Do you mean when you do want to ease prediction rather than do not

Colonel M

Give a few specific examples here on KOs or 2HKOs that Modest nets over Timid, like a Z kill on SG Magearna after Rocks for example

Add in how and when to bring Magnezone into battle, since this variant lacks defensive utility.
Your call on whether or not you want to mention that Gigavolt Havoc is marginally stronger than HP Fire against Mega Scizor, guaranteeing a KO after rocks against most variants if you don't need to save your z move against another target. Also gives a nice 50% chance to OHKO max HP variants from full whereas hidden power fire needs a max roll

Mention a few examples of pokemon that want those Ground-types removed

Good stuff man, QC 1/3


600th post yuh
thanks for the check!

I feel like adding the specific examples to Modest is a bit unnecessary because I already alluded to it at another point in the analysis without specifying it was for Modest because Timid is not even backslashed, but rather getting a small mention. With this said, the information cannot hurt to be there, so I added it nevertheless. I feel like it makes a point a bit wordy and over-the-top, but I will let GP work with this to iron it out when it comes time for that.

The same can be said for the Pokemon that want Ground types removed (and by extension, the Pokemon that want Celesteela removed as I needed parallel structure in that subpoint) as I alluded to that earlier in the section, but I came up with different examples even if it arguably covered the same subpoint again. I am fine with being more inclusive than not if only to give readers teambuilding options, but I am a bit worried that it could lead to the analysis being contradictory.

Implemented everything, but just felt like noting that in case others wanted to comment on the matter before this is finalized

Gary chill btw, I have been studying all day for an exam tomorrow ;_;
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Gary chill btw, I have been studying all day for an exam tomorrow ;_;
Absolutely no exception. School is irrelevant when competitive mons is very important and is actually more useful to invest in than higher education. I would know this, because I decided to ditch college to get yelled at by men in oversized hats, fwiw.

Looks good though QC 2/3

You have until whenever I feel like tagging you in QC channel again to write this up. Good luck.
 

Finchinator

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OU Leader
Absolutely no exception. School is irrelevant when competitive mons is very important and is actually more useful to invest in than higher education. I would know this, because I decided to ditch college to get yelled at by men in oversized hats, fwiw.

Looks good though QC 2/3

You have until whenever I feel like tagging you in QC channel again to write this up. Good luck.
you really bugged me just to make absolutely no changes LOL fck u

will write it up tomorrow before too late at night tho
 

GMars

It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
in general, don't use 'you' when you're talking about things like a Pokemon's Speed or ability to damage things

[SET]
name: Substitute Z
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Electrium Z / Steelium Z
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / (Added Space between 'SpA' and '/') 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Substitute is intended to be used to take advantage of Celesteela using Protect mainly, but it also is nice for when Steel-types (AH) give you Magnezone a free turn or when you do not want to avoid predicting a single opposing Pokemon coming in and having to pick between your Magnezone's dual STABs STAB attacks. Thunderbolt is the Electric STAB and can be used in conjunction with Electrium Z in order to OHKO Pokemon like Celesteela or offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. Flash Cannon is the Steel STAB and can be used in conjunction with Steelium Z if you do not feel the need to use over Electrium Z. This lets you to get a kill KO on incoming Landorus-T, Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and Latios with Stealth Rock up. Hidden Power Fire is utilized in order to rid the opposing team of Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, both of which Magnezone frequently traps.

Set Details
========

The EVs are straightforward, maximizing the damage output of the various special attacks Magnezone is using and while being as fast as possible, allowing you Magnezone to outrun Pokemon such as uninvested Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, (RH) Suicune, and specially defensive Heatran. A Modest nature is used in order to maximize damage output. This allows you Magnezone to always kill KO offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock and almost always do so against Shift Gear Magearna if using Electrium Z. Additionally, a Modest nature lets you assures an OHKO on offensive Landorus-T from full and almost always OHKOes Garchomp, almost always, [talked on Discord] defensive Landorus-T, or Latios after Stealth Rock if using Steelium Z. The only reasons to use Timid are assuring you Magnezone outruns bulky Stealth Rock Landorus-T and Choice Banded Tyranitar, but you this loses out on most of the kills KOs you Magnezone gets with Steelium Z and Electrium Z, and Magnezone [is this what you meant] simply doesn't stay in on these Pokemon unless a Substitute is up, so this is rarely worthwhile. On the topic of the aforementioned items, Steelium Z is used when you do not truly need to OHKO Steel-types (AH) like Celesteela and Heatran and would prefer to split the niche of Magnezone to also eliminating eliminate incoming offensive pivots, (AC) whereas Electrium Z is used when your focus solely is upon abusing Magnet Pull to the best of Magnezone's ability. If you have another Z-Move (AH) and feel that using the Substitute trapper set is still ideal, then you can opt to use Life Orb, (AC) as it will give you sufficient damage output. However, the combination of Substitute and Life Orb is not always ideal.

Usage Tips
========

Unlike the Assault Vest variant of Magnezone, the goals of this set are to eliminate any Steel-type (AH) that Magnezone may encounter and do as much damage as possible when not facing a Steel-type. (AH) Moreover, utilization of Substitute to make Magnezone less prediction reliant is key, (AC) and this should be kept in mind when trying to make the most use of Magnezone in the battle. This Magnezone should not be used as a consistent defensive countermeasure against anything. Unlike the Assault Vest variant, Magnezone has mediocre special bulk and only passable physical bulk, leaving the niche on the offensive end of the spectrum. [Note to gp2: leaving spectrum here, usually removed when talking about physical vs special because that's a discrete set and not a spectrum, but offensive vs defensive does take on more of a spectrum since things take on varying non-discrete degrees of being defensive vs offensive checks and countermeasures, i.e. Chansey is further on the defensive end of this spectrum than AV magnezone] Substitute is also useful when you expect the opponent to use moves such as Protect, Sucker Punch, and Leech Seed. (RC, AP) etc. [such as implies etc] It is best to bring Magnezone into battle when you expect a vulnerable Steel-type (AH) like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, (RH) or Celesteela to come in. Alternatively, if they manage to get in, switching Magnezone in to trap them is a good idea if you believe they will stay in.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that abuse the removal of opposing Steel-types (AH) are generally ideal. The main Pokemon being removed are Celesteela, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, (RH) and Ferrothorn. Moreover, the best abusers of this tend to be strong physical attackers that are troubled with the aforementioned threats; some examples are Mega Pinsir, Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Landorus-T. Alternatively, Pokemon that simply do not fair well against Steel-types (AH) such as Tapu Lele, Latios, and Mega Diancie can all work well alongside this variant of Magnezone. Finally, if you are using Steelium Z as your item, then you should put specific emphasis on the luring in of Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde when building. Fire-types (AH) like Heatran and Rock-types (AH) like Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar (RH) take advantage of this. On the contrary, if you are using Electrium Z, then the same can be said for removal of Celesteela and integrating Pokemon such as the aforementioned Tapu Lele or Latios to your team. [Nice job on these last two sections Finch]

GP 1/2
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
in general, don't use 'you' when you're talking about things like a Pokemon's Speed or ability to damage things

[SET]
name: Substitute Z
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Electrium Z / Steelium Z
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / (Added Space between 'SpA' and '/') 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Substitute is intended to be used to take advantage of Celesteela using Protect mainly, but it also is nice for when Steel-types (AH) give you Magnezone a free turn or when you do not want to avoid predicting a single opposing Pokemon coming in and having to pick between your Magnezone's dual STABs STAB attacks. Thunderbolt is the Electric STAB and can be used in conjunction with Electrium Z in order to OHKO Pokemon like Celesteela or offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. Flash Cannon is the Steel STAB and can be used in conjunction with Steelium Z if you do not feel the need to use over Electrium Z. This lets you to get a kill KO on incoming Landorus-T, Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and Latios with Stealth Rock up. Hidden Power Fire is utilized in order to rid the opposing team of Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, both of which Magnezone frequently traps.

Set Details
========

The EVs are straightforward, maximizing the damage output of the various special attacks Magnezone is using and while being as fast as possible, allowing you Magnezone to outrun Pokemon such as uninvested Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, (RH) Suicune, and specially defensive Heatran. A Modest nature is used in order to maximize damage output. This allows you Magnezone to always kill KO offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock and almost always do so against Shift Gear Magearna if using Electrium Z. Additionally, a Modest nature lets you assures an OHKO on offensive Landorus-T from full and almost always OHKOes Garchomp, almost always, [talked on Discord] defensive Landorus-T, or Latios after Stealth Rock if using Steelium Z. The only reasons to use Timid are assuring you Magnezone outruns bulky Stealth Rock Landorus-T and Choice Banded Tyranitar, but you this loses out on most of the kills KOs you Magnezone gets with Steelium Z and Electrium Z, and Magnezone [is this what you meant] simply doesn't stay in on these Pokemon unless a Substitute is up, so this is rarely worthwhile. On the topic of the aforementioned items, Steelium Z is used when you do not truly need to OHKO Steel-types (AH) like Celesteela and Heatran and would prefer to split the niche of Magnezone to also eliminating eliminate incoming offensive pivots, (AC) whereas Electrium Z is used when your focus solely is upon abusing Magnet Pull to the best of Magnezone's ability. If you have another Z-Move (AH) and feel that using the Substitute trapper set is still ideal, then you can opt to use Life Orb, (AC) as it will give you sufficient damage output. However, the combination of Substitute and Life Orb is not always ideal.

Usage Tips
========

Unlike the Assault Vest variant of Magnezone, the goals of this set are to eliminate any Steel-type (AH) that Magnezone may encounter and do as much damage as possible when not facing a Steel-type. (AH) Moreover, utilization of Substitute to make Magnezone less prediction reliant is key, (AC) and this should be kept in mind when trying to make the most use of Magnezone in the battle. This Magnezone should not be used as a consistent defensive countermeasure against anything. Unlike the Assault Vest variant, Magnezone has mediocre special bulk and only passable physical bulk, leaving the niche on the offensive end of the spectrum. [Note to gp2: leaving spectrum here, usually removed when talking about physical vs special because that's a discrete set and not a spectrum, but offensive vs defensive does take on more of a spectrum since things take on varying non-discrete degrees of being defensive vs offensive checks and countermeasures, i.e. Chansey is further on the defensive end of this spectrum than AV magnezone] Substitute is also useful when you expect the opponent to use moves such as Protect, Sucker Punch, and Leech Seed. (RC, AP) etc. [such as implies etc] It is best to bring Magnezone into battle when you expect a vulnerable Steel-type (AH) like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, (RH) or Celesteela to come in. Alternatively, if they manage to get in, switching Magnezone in to trap them is a good idea if you believe they will stay in.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that abuse the removal of opposing Steel-types (AH) are generally ideal. The main Pokemon being removed are Celesteela, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, (RH) and Ferrothorn. Moreover, the best abusers of this tend to be strong physical attackers that are troubled with the aforementioned threats; some examples are Mega Pinsir, Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Landorus-T. Alternatively, Pokemon that simply do not fair well against Steel-types (AH) such as Tapu Lele, Latios, and Mega Diancie can all work well alongside this variant of Magnezone. Finally, if you are using Steelium Z as your item, then you should put specific emphasis on the luring in of Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde when building. Fire-types (AH) like Heatran and Rock-types (AH) like Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar (RH) take advantage of this. On the contrary, if you are using Electrium Z, then the same can be said for removal of Celesteela and integrating Pokemon such as the aforementioned Tapu Lele or Latios to your team. [Nice job on these last two sections Finch]

GP 1/2
donezo
fuck Gary btw.
 

Jukain

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decided to gp this
[SET]
name: Substitute Z
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Electrium Z / Steelium Z
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Substitute is mainly intended to be used to take advantage of Celesteela using Protect mainly, but it is also is nice for when other Steel-types give Magnezone a free turn or towhen you avoid predicting a single opposing Pokemon coming in and having pi unsure about which attack between Magnezone's dual STAB attacksto choose. this sentence had awkward structure and wordiness - I tried to reduce while keeping the meaning, feel free to make adjustments if you think something important is missing Thunderbolt can be used in conjunction with Electrium Z in order to OHKO Pokemon like Celesteela or offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. Flash Cannon can be used in conjunction with Steelium Z over Electrium Z to kill get a KO on incoming Landorus-T, Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and Latios with Stealth Rock up. these sentences are fine individually, but since you are running both moves regardless of z crystal I would recommend mentioning their utility without the damage-boosting crystal (particularly for flash cannon) Hidden Power Fire is utilized in order to rid the opposing trap and eliminateam of Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, both of which Magnezone frequently traps.

Set Details
========

The EVs are straightforward, maximizboosting theMagnezone's damage output of the various special attacks Magnezone is uswhile making while beingit as fast as possible, allowing Magnezone to outrun Pokemon such as uninvested Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, Suicune, and specially defensive Heatran. A Modest nature is used in order to maximize damage output. This allows Magnezone to always KO offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock and almost always do so against Shift Gear Magearna if using Electrium Z. Additionally, Modest nature assures an OHKO on offensive Landorus-T from full and almost always OHKOs Garchomp, defensive Landorus-T, or Latios after Stealth Rock if using Steelium Z. The only reasons to use Timid are assuring Magnezone outruns bulky Landorus-T and Choice Band Tyranitar, but you lose out on most of the KOs Magnezone gets with Steelium Z and Electrium Z, and Magnezone simply doesn't stay in on these Pokemon unless a Substitute is up, so this is rarely worthwhile. On the topic of the aforementioned items, Steelium Z is used when you do not truly need to OHKO Steel-types like Celesteela and Heatran, and would prefer to split the niche ofenable Magnezone to also eliminate incoming offensive pivots, whereas. Electrium Z is used when your focus is solely is upon abusing Magnet Pull to the best of Magnezone's ability. both of these sentences assume a good bit about the readers knowledge - you should include examples If you have another Z move on your team and feel that using the Substitute trapper set is still ideal, then you can opt to use Life Orb as it will give you sufficient damage output. However, the combination of Substitute and Life Orb is not always ideal. you should mention why

Usage Tips
========

Unlike the Assault Vest variant of Magnezone, the goals of this set are to eliminate any Steel-type that Magnezone may encounter and do as much damage as possible when not facing a Steel-type. Moreover, utilization of Substitute to make Magnezone less prediction reliant is key, and this should be kept in mind when trying to make the most use of Magnezone in the battle. This Magnezone should not be used as a consistent defensive countermeasure against anything. Unlike the Assault Vest variant, this Magnezone set has mediocre special bulk and only passable physical bulk, leavimiting theits niche on theo offensive end of the spectrumutility. Substitute is also useful when you expect the opponent to use moves such as Protect, Sucker Punch, and Leech Seed. It is best to bring Magnezone into battle when you expect a vulnerable Steel-type like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, or Celesteela to come in. Alternatively, if they manage to get in, switching Magnezone in to trap them is a good idea if you believe they will stay in.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that abuse the removal of opposing Steel-types, pare generally ideal. The main Pokemon being removed areticularly Celesteela, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Moreover, t, are generally ideal. The best abusers of this tend to be strong physical attackers that are troubled with the aforementioned threats; some examples arlike Mega Pinsir, Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Landorus-T. Alternatively, Pokemon that simply do not fair well against Steel-types such as Tapu Lele, Latios, and Mega Diancie can all work well alongside this variant of Magnezone. Finally, if you are using Steelium Z as your item, then you should put specific emphasis on the luring in of Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde when building. Fire-types like Heatran and Rock-types like Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar take advantage of this. On the contrary, if you are using Electrium Z, then the same can be said for removal of Celesteela and integrating Pokemon that benefit from it, such as the aforementioned Tapu Lele orand Latios, into to your team.

in general, the main things I corrected were verbose writing, which made some explanations more confusing or difficult to understand. if you disagree with certain word choices etc then you can choose alternatives - there are other ways to make certain points in the analysis more concise/clear to understand.

gp 2/2
 

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