(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

I'm quite sure that the fact that they stopped making cross gen evolutions with gen 6 (outside of Sylveon) has more to do with simply not liking the idea that a pokemon "magically is found out to be able to evolve" which doesn't really add up well "lore wise".
Quoted for truth
 
I'm quite sure that the fact that they stopped making cross gen evolutions with gen 6 (outside of Sylveon) has more to do with simply not liking the idea that a pokemon "magically is found out to be able to evolve" which doesn't really add up well "lore wise".
But then they add a cross-gen pokemon that quite literally evolves through the power or friendship and magic.
Glad that underwater or dive battles were never introduced.
Haha, you wish! Just don't ask me why the pokemon wouldn't drown.
 
Honestly, the Gen 4 Evolutions didn't bother me in terms of Lore. The simple explanation is that the implements for the new evolution didn't exist in the region where the Pokemon was introduced, which adds up when a lot like Gallade, Electivire, Porygon-Z (who was a mod on a digital Pokemon already) and to some extent Gliscor/Weavile, for example, are based on an item. If anything I think pre-evolutions and baby Pokemon are bigger deiances of logic because it makes no sense why people would either not have seen these Pokemon in cases like Pichu (they never studied Pikachu to observe their mating habits and see Pichu hatching?), or the closest thing I can equate the incenses to is drugs/medicine influencing a fetus (though they'd never get that serious with this idea) considering there's no biological basis for this and no distinct advantage since I'd assume most species would not interbreed in the wild for the varying egg moves, and Baby Pokemon are distinctly weaker. And if the Baby Pokemon are naturally occurring, it's a defiance of logic to simply not have them the default hatch to explain away older gens.

I feel like Gen 2 was the worst offender since it mostly introduced new evolutions based on friendship outside the baby Pokemon. This essentially tells me that somehow no body ever bonded enough with these Pokemon to see their evolution in Kanto? No one bonded enough Chansey or Golbat in Kanto? And even then, Johto doesn't have the geographical excuse since it's neighboring Kanto, so no reason to believe there'd be significant climate differences in cases like the Eeveelutions.
 
But then they add a cross-gen pokemon that quite literally evolves through the power or friendship and magic.
I think the decision to add a Eevee Fairy evo was justificable: Fairy was literally a complete new typing, almost every gen (except 5th iirc?) had a new Eevolution before, and it definitely was another good way to , you know, sellout the Fairy typing ;)

I can also see further Eevolutions being added later on (we're still missing a few types) but I don't really see more "previous gen evolutions" to appear since they do not really make much sense most of the time. In similar fashion as pika pal mentioned above, how it is possible that noone ever bonded with a Chansey, or that there was never seen a Weavile around, for hundred of years?
 

Pikachu315111

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I've always wondered what were GF thinking when they made Eviolite. “Hey guys, let’s make an item that basically prevents us from giving 99% of existing Pokemon new evolutions in the future”?!?!?!??!

There are so many subpar 2nd stagers (aromatisse, braviary, claydol, mismagius, xatu, etc) and standalones (girafarig, heatmor, spriritomb, lunatone, solrock, etc) that can use an evolution or two but NOOOOOOO. Thanks to this pos, current 2nd stagers and standalone can’t get evolutions anymore without contradicting 3 gen worths of legacy.
Why would Eviolite prevent a Pokemon from getting a new evolution? Like sure it might make some Pokemon super bulky but it's not like we don't already have some Pokemon like that. Mega Evolution is I think the main thing preventing Pokemon from getting new evolutions as why give a normal evolution when you can give them an "OP" super form instead.

Though I do think standalone Pokemon should get an Eviolite-like item. Not doubling defense stats though, I'm more thinking something more flexible like boosting accuracy & secondary effects.

As for under powered 2-stage Pokemon, they just gotta hope for a good Mega Evolution (and even than only fans of the Pokemon would use it). Look, putting it as kindly as possible, many if not most Pokemon just have to be NU/RU/UU. Not every Pokemon can be OU, it would throw game balance out the window and not make any Pokemon special. At best they could fill in a niche or have a gimmick.

If I were to give these Pokemon a bone, maybe have these Pokemon be able to use an Eviolite if they go up against a Pokemon which is a 3rd stage. Of course we also have 3rd stage Pokemon who under perform as well (some of them getting boosted to 3rd stage as they got a Baby form).

This brings up another thing I hate too: they went out of their way to make a lot megas good with crazy stats distribution & ability and then leave others with some trashiest designs: Huge Power on sth with base 105 atk? Drought on a Fire type with base 159 sp.atk? a 1.2x atk boost on stuff with base 130, 145, 155, 165, etc offensive stat? but Healer? shell armor? tough claws with no stab? losing the most important stats in the game: speed? WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Just why?!?!?!?!?!?!?
It's been agreed that certain Mega Pokemon (actually, Mega Pokemon in general) need a redo of sorts (or to make the Abilities these Pokemon get better). I think I get the reason behind some of them: Mega Audino is suppose to be super support and a nurse, Mega Slowbro is suppose to be a super wall and is like 90% shell, Mega Aerodactyl has those sharp rocks jetting out of its body and plenty of contact coverage. As for Mega Garchomp, I think they were trying to go for balance before they threw that out the window with Mega Metagross. A Pokemon's appearance design is just as important as their stats and sometimes decisions are made strictly based on that doesn't really work.

If anything, it's Mega Stones that cap evolutionary lines, and even that could be overruled by some hypothetical future developments.
I always wondered if Mega Pokemon could be the first Pokemon to become "extinct" or retconned, like they decide to make an evolution for a Pokemon with a Mega and so give the new evolution a Mega to replace it. For example, the give Absol an evolution, Twosol, and so they remove Mega Absol from future games and replace it with Mega Twosol. I think it could work, just follow the design changes done with Mega Absol and apply it to Twosol.

... Okay, they won't do that. But how about this: they introduce a pre-evolution/baby evolution for a Pokemon with a Mega Evolution and then give a boost to the Pokemon's BST (thus increasing the Mega Evo's BST). Heck, they've already slowly been increasing the BST of older Pokemon, giving it a prevo would be an excuse just to give some Pokemon bigger BST increases. Though stats are one thing, they should also check to see if there's any moves the Pokemon can make use of and check the Ability to see if its alright (if not, either boost the Ability or give it another option).
 
Mind you that they created this at the same time as they instated their policy of no more cross-generation evolutions. Sylveon will have to be seen as an exception in this regard.

Also, the existence of Eviolite does not prevent future cross-generation evolutions on a conceptual level. What would prevent them from giving an evolution to, say, Girafarig and giving the now pre-evolution the Eviolite boost? It wouldn't require a change in the Eviolite mechanics at all.

If anything, it's Mega Stones that cap evolutionary lines, and even that could be overruled by some hypothetical future developments.
Pre-evolutions ... we don't need more trash like Bonsly, Mime. Jr, Igglibuff, the others, and the worst offender of all time: CHINGLING.

Codraroll on the girafarig example, how would they explain Eviolite not working on it for 3+ gens before?

Why would Eviolite prevent a Pokemon from getting a new evolution? Like sure it might make some Pokemon super bulky but it's not like we don't already have some Pokemon like that. Mega Evolution is I think the main thing preventing Pokemon from getting new evolutions as why give a normal evolution when you can give them an "OP" super form instead.
Lore-wise, Eviolite basically tells us which Pokemon is fully evolved. For example, Altaria doesnt get the eviolite boost -> Altaria is fully evolved in the Pokemon universe -> GF can't release an Altaria evolution without contradicting this.

If anything I think pre-evolutions and baby Pokemon are bigger deiances of logic because it makes no sense why people would either not have seen these Pokemon in cases like Pichu (they never studied Pikachu to observe their mating habits and see Pichu hatching?), or the closest thing I can equate the incenses to is drugs/medicine influencing a fetus (though they'd never get that serious with this idea) considering there's no biological basis for this and no distinct advantage since I'd assume most species would not interbreed in the wild for the varying egg moves, and Baby Pokemon are distinctly weaker. And if the Baby Pokemon are naturally occurring, it's a defiance of logic to simply not have them the default hatch to explain away older gens.

I feel like Gen 2 was the worst offender since it mostly introduced new evolutions based on friendship outside the baby Pokemon. This essentially tells me that somehow no body ever bonded enough with these Pokemon to see their evolution in Kanto? No one bonded enough Chansey or Golbat in Kanto? And even then, Johto doesn't have the geographical excuse since it's neighboring Kanto, so no reason to believe there'd be significant climate differences in cases like the Eeveelutions.
The Pichu thing (and by extension, the gen II babies) can be explained by the daycare in gen I only takes in 1 Pokemon at a time so you have no way of obtaining eggs in that game.
The incense thing is like you said.
The friendship thing is due to tech limitations back then ig. It makes no sense lore-wise but i'd forgive GF for that.
 
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Codraroll

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Codraroll on the girafarig example, how would they explain Eviolite not working on it for 3+ gens before?
With a shrug and a "who cares?", most likely. It has been their go-to method for other inconsistencies in the past. I really, really doubt that they'd let something as simple as a minor logic inconsistency get in the way of adding new creature designs. They could always throw out a semi-contrived retcon or joke about it (Why do Pikachu evolve into a different Raichu in Alola? "Perhaps they've eaten too many pancakes!" is the official stance on that situation, for instance). Worst case, they'd just pull the "it's an alternate dimension!" card they did in ORAS. It doesn't take much to justify such a minor change, and few people would really mind if they didn't anyway.
 
Lore-wise, Eviolite basically tells us which Pokemon is fully evolved. For example, Altaria doesnt get the eviolite boost -> Altaria is fully evolved in the Pokemon universe -> GF can't release an Altaria evolution without contradicting this.
I don't think Eviolite tells us which pokemon are fully evolved; it's item description is simply "A mysterious evolutionary lump. When held, it raises the Defense and Sp. Def of a Pokémon that can still evolve." So if Altaria (your example) suddenly can evolve in Gen 8 or whatever, it would get the boosts. This can be easily explained as it didn't get boosts in earlier gens because it was a fully evolved poke at the time. Eviolite more so just says who can further evolve which can always be expanded
 
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I mean, Alolan variants are the closest thing to actual Evolution the series has displayed with the Pokemon, in that they evolved differently in a radically different environment. I always took the Raichu Pancake thing to be a joke that got lost in translation.
 
With a shrug and a "who cares?", most likely. It has been their go-to method for other inconsistencies in the past. I really, really doubt that they'd let something as simple as a minor logic inconsistency get in the way of adding new creature designs. They could always throw out a semi-contrived retcon or joke about it (Why do Pikachu evolve into a different Raichu in Alola? "Perhaps they've eaten too many pancakes!" is the official stance on that situation, for instance). Worst case, they'd just pull the "it's an alternate dimension!" card they did in ORAS. It doesn't take much to justify such a minor change, and few people would really mind if they didn't anyway.
I think the right way to see all the systems for categorizing things -- stats, typing, how items work, etc. -- is as based on the (potentially imperfect) understanding of the in-world scientists. Using whatever methods, researchers determine that Species A has [x] amount of relative physical attacking ability, speed, etc., and these things are listed according to the stats system they've devised. They test the item we know as Eviolite and determine that it seems to provide a certain boost to defensive ability, but only works on certain things, and so on. Their understanding could always be wrong, and you can see what we're presented in playing the games as filtered through their systems for understanding and categorizing everything.

Another thing to consider is that Pokemon seem to be difficult to train to their full potential and, in many cases, difficult to study fully in the wild. I think you've posted about how all the player characters seem to be training prodigies, and this seems like an important piece of seeing why so much revision might be necessary.
 
The whole "Eviolite retcon" issue (assuming it ever happens) will likely be dealt with story-wise the same way as the Fairy-type retcon - as in, not at all.

I mean, there is no reason in lore why, for example, Clefable, who used to take massive damage from Fighting-type attacks, now takes those attacks like a champ. Or why it suddenly started taking damage from Ghost-type attacks.
 
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Honestly, I personally really wouldn't mind such a retcon at all. To take the Fire Emblem series as an example: These games have had a weapon triangle very similar to Pokemon's type system (swords beat axes beat lances beat swords) for quite a while now, only to release a remake of a very old game recently that doesn't use this system. When first playing that game, it felt odd to me at first from a gameplay perspective - why can my lance user suddenly hit axe fighters with perfect accuracy? - but it only felt weird from a gameplay perspective. I never once felt annoyed that something of the games' lore was retconned, because that thought simply never occured to me. It does work perfectly for that game, so I really don't see anything wrong with it. And neither would I turn up my nose should the system return in future installments.

*edit* To give an example of Pokemon, did anyone feel betrayed when the Physical / Special split was implemented back in Generation 4? The same implications apply here - something like Feraligatr was suddenly able to use much more powerful Water type attacks than before, for no valid reason. And yeah, I'll admit it doesn't make sense, but I welcomed that change anyway, and wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Mira's sidequest in Wayward Cave drives me NUTS.

As you all may know, Wayward Cave is easy as hell to get lost in with it's bullshit layout and darkness. For some divine reason, I decided to brave Wayward Cave without Flash or Repels. Turns out, running around aimlessly in a sprawling, pitch-black labyrinth with a Zubat swooping you every other step is not fun. And when you finally do find Mira, you gotta go through the whole thing a second time! Yay!

After scrambling your way back to the entrance, this Mira girl says some cliche "Thanks! I'm gonna become tougher!!" and runs off into the distance, without giving any reward. I just rescued this girl from a darkened maze-cave teeming with encounters and the game doesn't reward me?? >:(

But really though, I'm glad Wayward Cave and the Mira sidequest is there. It doesn't have to be there, it doesn't progress the story in any way, it's just something for you to do at your own discretion. It's there for fun. Optional areas that aren't half-assed need to be more of a commonplace in the 3D pokemon games.
 
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Did anyone ever come up with an explanation for Clamperl evolving into Gorebyss and Huntail?

A friend reminded me of them today and this annoyance i've had with them for years came back. This evolution line makes no sense
 
The fact that lefties like me can't have cool battle styles AND be left handed. How come righties get all the cool styles? There could easily be a toggle to switch the throwing hand (in settings or at the Garbage Plant guy) and then the list of styles that would work for both hands.
 
Did anyone ever come up with an explanation for Clamperl evolving into Gorebyss and Huntail?

A friend reminded me of them today and this annoyance i've had with them for years came back. This evolution line makes no sense


#366.51 - Clamperl live within the security of their rock-hard shell, where they are protected from harm as they grow. As a result, Clamperl will stay within their shells until they outgrow them, often running back to the shell to hide during times of distress, curling up so that they fit inside. Sand from the ocean bottom frequently gets caught inside, and, over the course of their evolution, will be turned into a large and valuable pearl. Clamperl who are evolving into Huntail will begin to develop several features that help them lure unsuspecting prey, such as bioluminescent spots and a tail fin that looks like a small fish.These Pokemon require the crushing pressure of the deep ocean to evolve, and whether a wild Clamperl will evolve into a Gorebyss or Huntail depends on the current population in their ecosystem and the Pokemon that they’re exposed to. They are capable of evolving out of their environment if traded while holding a Deep Sea Tooth.

Named: Clamperl - Clamoray - Huntail
 

Pikachu315111

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Did anyone ever come up with an explanation for Clamperl evolving into Gorebyss and Huntail?

A friend reminded me of them today and this annoyance i've had with them for years came back. This evolution line makes no sense
Because Pokemon laughs in the face of evolution logic?

Checking Bulbapedia, seems like they did come up with an idea:

Clamperl is possibly based on an oyster or a giant clam. Clamperl's appearance and its evolutions suggest that it could also be based on roe.
Makes sense. If you look at Clamperl the "pearl" doesn't look attached to the clam. So it could be the "pearl" is actually an underdeveloped eel spawn. With it in such an early state of development, trading it with a DNA sample of one of its evolutions mixes its DNA with the item thus causing it to evolve.

The fact that lefties like me can't have cool battle styles AND be left handed. How come righties get all the cool styles? There could easily be a toggle to switch the throwing hand (in settings or at the Garbage Plant guy) and then the list of styles that would work for both hands.
There's a lot of customization things GF can do to personalize your trainer to your preferences.
 
I remember some speculation about Clamperl's egg been actually an egg that eats the clam and Huntail/Gorebyss laying their egg on clams
 
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I'm not sure how applicable my latest gripe is to this thread since it's not with a main series game, but...

I've been playing a lot of Explorers of Sky lately, and I can't help but think that a lot of the Orbs are really underpowered. A lot of them seem balanced around them having multiple uses, but that doesn't actually work because Orbs are single-use items. The One-Shot Orb, for example, OHKOs the foe directly in front of you... if it works at all, since it has the same success rate as using a regular OHKO move. And if it misses, you've just wasted it. I believe that if the Orb had a 100% success rate, it would actually be balanced, and here's why:
  • It affects exactly one enemy, which is a drop in the bucket in Mystery Dungeon.
  • Adding onto the above, enemies cannot use Orbs other than Rollcall.
  • Orbs are unusable during boss battles, so it wouldn't result in cheesing them.
  • Once again, it's a single-use item, and a fairly uncommon one at that.
The Itemizer Orb is more or less the same, though with the added benefit of turning the defeated foe into an item.

A lot of other Orbs suffer the same drawback of being single-use and easy to waste; the Trapbust and See-trap orbs destroy and reveal all traps in the room you're in respectively; however, if there are no traps in the first place, they are wasted. Giving them a floor-wide effect instead would make them worth carrying around. Other Orbs suffer from different drawbacks: some are clones of or outclassed by moves (Rebound, Rocky, Mug, Lob); others are simple upgrades of other Orbs (Warp/Spurn, Petrify/Foe-Hold, Fill-in/Drought, Quick/All-Mach); and with some like Longtoss it's difficult to imagine a situation where you'd ever actually need to use them. Luckily, there are the few like Escape, Cleanse, Rollcall, and the various room enemy disruption ones that are very much worth using.
 
I'm not sure how applicable my latest gripe is to this thread since it's not with a main series game, but...

I've been playing a lot of Explorers of Sky lately, and I can't help but think that a lot of the Orbs are really underpowered. A lot of them seem balanced around them having multiple uses, but that doesn't actually work because Orbs are single-use items. The One-Shot Orb, for example, OHKOs the foe directly in front of you... if it works at all, since it has the same success rate as using a regular OHKO move. And if it misses, you've just wasted it. I believe that if the Orb had a 100% success rate, it would actually be balanced, and here's why:
  • It affects exactly one enemy, which is a drop in the bucket in Mystery Dungeon.
  • Orbs are unusable during boss battles, so it wouldn't result in cheesing them.
  • Once again, it's a single-use item, and a fairly uncommon one at that.
The Itemizer Orb is more or less the same, though with the added benefit of turning the defeated foe into an item.

A lot of other Orbs suffer the same drawback of being single-use and easy to waste; the Trapbust and See-trap orbs destroy and reveal all traps in the room you're in respectively; however, if there are no traps in the first place, they are wasted. Giving them a floor-wide effect instead would make them worth carrying around. Other Orbs suffer from different drawbacks: some are clones of or outclassed by moves (Rebound, Rocky, Mug, Lob); others are simple upgrades of other Orbs (Warp/Spurn, Petrify/Foe-Hold, Fill-in/Drought, Quick/All-Mach); and with some like Longtoss it's difficult to imagine a situation where you'd ever actually need to use them. Luckily, there are the few like Escape, Cleanse, Rollcall, and the various room enemy disruption ones that are very much worth using.
I agree with this. For as much as I love Sky, some of the Orbs are...questionable.

However, there is another item type in this game that annoys me even more. Seeds. The main difference between Orbs and Seeds is that Seeds can be used in boss battles, and there is often little restriction, easily allowing you to cheese your way through a boss fight. One example I remember a lot of is the Sleep Seed. It easily allows you to get free hits on the boss, and several boss battles can easily come down to how many seeds you have. Reviver Seeds too, almost being crucial to winning a boss battle. Totter and X-Eye are pretty broken too. These three have the capacity to just stop your opponent from acting, and while this is fine for regular dungeons, it ends up pretty broken for boss fights.
 
I agree with this. For as much as I love Sky, some of the Orbs are...questionable.

However, there is another item type in this game that annoys me even more. Seeds. The main difference between Orbs and Seeds is that Seeds can be used in boss battles, and there is often little restriction, easily allowing you to cheese your way through a boss fight. One example I remember a lot of is the Sleep Seed. It easily allows you to get free hits on the boss, and several boss battles can easily come down to how many seeds you have. Reviver Seeds too, almost being crucial to winning a boss battle. Totter and X-Eye are pretty broken too. These three have the capacity to just stop your opponent from acting, and while this is fine for regular dungeons, it ends up pretty broken for boss fights.
Hunger Seeds are even better - toss one of those at a boss, and it will permanently be unable to move or do more than 1 HP of damage to you.
 
Been a while, not sure if this is necro or not, but one has just come up for me.

I hate that Pokemon transfers from Gen to Gen are still one way, which is only made more glaring that they retained Time Machine functionality in the VC Gen 1 and 2 games. They don't have wildly varying systems anymore for the actual Pokemon data, and worst case scenario, they could just use their built in hack checks to restrict transferring back incompatible move changes between Gens and such. I feel like it also kind of shits on the idea of Pokemon Bank being an all encompassing "one stop storage" program for your games.
 
Been a while, not sure if this is necro or not, but one has just come up for me.

I hate that Pokemon transfers from Gen to Gen are still one way, which is only made more glaring that they retained Time Machine functionality in the VC Gen 1 and 2 games. They don't have wildly varying systems anymore for the actual Pokemon data, and worst case scenario, they could just use their built in hack checks to restrict transferring back incompatible move changes between Gens and such. I feel like it also kind of shits on the idea of Pokemon Bank being an all encompassing "one stop storage" program for your games.
Perhaps, but the problem lies within data structures.

You could trade both ways with Gen I and Gen II because their data structures were literally the same (Gen I has some fields that are never used, and Gen II uses those for its new information knowing Gen I makes no changes to them).

Say, if you traded a Pokemon from Gen VII to Gen VI and then back into Gen VII... what if that Pokemon had Hyper Trained stats? They could be lost inbetween the process because Gen VI has no such a thing.
 

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