History of Pokémon fan speculation

Pikachu315111

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And so do the Ultra Beasts, Pikachu315111. Now that sub-Legends are allowed in battle facilities, why haven't the likes of the birds and gerbils been stripped of their Legend status? Bank seems to treat them like regular Pokémon and does not refer to them as "Sub-Legendary," but these Pokémon still have their own hidden category.

In other words, why isn't the term "Sub-Legendary" officially acknowledged, even though "Special Legendary" and "Mythical" are?
Because Type: Null, Silvally, Island Guardians, & Ultra Beasts aren't "Sub-Legendaries", they are "Special". Anyway the titles are just titles, they don't really have much of an affect aside from maybe the rarity of the Pokemon. As I see it:

Legendary: These are Pokemon who are ingrained in the lore of regions, treated almost like deities (or servants of a higher power) or a personification/embodiment of a force of nature or metaphysical concept. They're rarely seen (or rarely do you feel their presence felt), however are generally agreed to exist.
Mythical: These are Pokemon almost never seen that there are many who believe they are made up. They may be mentioned in lore, but possibly either not a lot or only in specific areas.
Special: This is pretty much a catch all for every other Pokemon with some lore but their role, power, and scarcity leave it as a bit of a conundrum. Type: Null family are artificial like Mewtwo & Genesect and there's canon only 3, however they aren't as powerful and where the three are is well known with one being owned by the current president of an international Pokemon help & rescue organization. Island Guardians you'd think would be Legendaries but are often seen. Ultra Beasts are from another dimension so practically no one knows they exist and even if they did its almost impossible to get one (and it's also known where all of them are: with the first Champion of Alola).

Now note there are exceptions, like Mewtwo and Genesect being a Legendary and Mythical, respectively, despite only being recently created. You could say they were placed in their category due to the amount of power they showed, stories about them, and scarcity (there may only be a few Mewtwo which would make you think it would be classified as a Mythical, but their great power equals that of a Legendaries such as the Tower Duo, Weather Trio, Space-Tme Trio, Tao Trio, Mortality Duo, & Cosmic Duo).

SPEAKING OF ALL THIS & GETTING BACK ON TOPIC: Hey! Remember when there was arguments whether Rotom was a Legendary because the Gen IV Legendary theme played when you encountered it? Or how about the still on-going arguments whether Phione is a Legendary or Special Pokemon since, after you get a Manaphy, you can breed as many as you want and they aren't that strong?
 
This is more the reverse reaction, but I remember the first time I saw mega pokemon in the Corocoro scans. I was so convinced the entire thing was a hoax and fake and someone's digimon x pokemon crossover fanart that I refused to believe it.

As for something more topical, remember how some thought the z-cyrstal shape in the Pokemon Sun & Moon Japanese logos...


...was supposed to be referencing the Pokemon Rebirth manga, meaning humans fusing with pokemon?

I didn't believe it for a second but wow did this theory get popular during early 2016 before we started getting solid information. I was surprised not only by how many people kept hyping it based on a small diamond symbol in a logo, but also by how many people actually WANTED pokemon to go in this direction.
 
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Codraroll

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I also remember shortly after the release of XY, that people seemed to believe there was an Ice wolf legendary, representing Fenrir the same way Xerneas and Yveltal represented Norse legendary creatures tied to Yggdrasil, the World Tree. It was reportedly encountered at the bottom of Glittering Cave, or the Sea Spirit's Den, and it took several days after leakers first got their hands on the games before the rumours were dispelled.

XY's release was quite memorable, actually, since datamining wasn't available at first. We learned everything about the games from leakers who had gotten early copies and posted their progress on Twitter and Instagram until Nintendo shut them down. Besides, we were all a little shocked about how few new Pokémon there were, and almost all of them had been revealed prior to the games' release. Where were all the new Pokémon? This, combined with the apparent uselessness of several game locations (Sea Spirit's Den, Glittering Cave, Tower of Mastery, Chamber of Emptiness, etc.) meant conditions were ripe for misunderstandings and flaky rumours. Certain Pokémon were also dismissed as fakes at first: notably Fletchinder since its name exceeded the ten-character limit, and Greninja because that tongue is so ridiculous.
 

Pikachu315111

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Certain Pokémon were also dismissed as fakes at first: notably Fletchinder since its name exceeded the ten-character limit, and Greninja because that tongue is so ridiculous.
Speaking of which:

I mean, really, ANOTHER Fire/Fighting-type? It's not even that convincing, all of the sudden a cat turns into a wrestler? And wait, is that Ash on the bottom? Well that's the nail in the coffin right there, no way the games would reference Ash since he's only in the anime. Also, look how bland Popplio's supposed evolution looks. And it suddenly turns into an opera singer mermaid from a circus sealion that makes bubbles it bounces on, where's the connection? Rowlet's evolution looks cool, though.
 
I actually bet someone a shiny Latios those leaks were fake because Primarina looked too feminine and Incineroar looked too ridiculous.

(I think he forgot about the bet and I never reminded him :vvvvv)
 
At least those turned out real, and many Pokémon fans seem to love them now. That might be a stretch with Incineroar, but I liked all of them once they were officially revealed (although I tend to like every Pokémon ever). As seen during Wottergate, it was nice to give them a chance at being legitimate leaks.
 
Speaking of which:

I mean, really, ANOTHER Fire/Fighting-type? It's not even that convincing, all of the sudden a cat turns into a wrestler? And wait, is that Ash on the bottom? Well that's the nail in the coffin right there, no way the games would reference Ash since he's only in the anime. Also, look how bland Popplio's supposed evolution looks. And it suddenly turns into an opera singer mermaid from a circus sealion that makes bubbles it bounces on, where's the connection? Rowlet's evolution looks cool, though.
I remember when the english names for all Gen V Pokemon were leaked some time before they started being revealed. And some dismissing the leak because, oh come on, "Ferroseed" and "Ferrothorn" sound too much like "Forretress" so they had to be unoriginal and fake names (no, seriously, this one's for real).

In both that case and the final Alola starter evolutions leak I tried my best to not say anything on the matter until some information on the matter comes up (though in both cases they looked kinda plausible to me, too elaborate to be a fake)
 
Pokken Tournament had an interesting history. Nintendo released that one screenshot of Blaziken & Lucario, everyone got hyped as shit, and then... nothing for over a year. People slowly began to suspect it was a red herring, before forgetting about it entirely. Then it was going to be arcade only, then it was going to be Japan-exclusive (because Nintendo is Nintendo)... man they really teased us with that game.
 
noobcubed Now with the simultaneous release of Pokkén Tournament DX on the Switch in both Japan and the west, the tease has stopped. I do have to admit it was annoying at first, but the game is a thing now, and we even get Decidueye as a fighter to boot!
 
Speaking of which:

I mean, really, ANOTHER Fire/Fighting-type? It's not even that convincing, all of the sudden a cat turns into a wrestler? And wait, is that Ash on the bottom? Well that's the nail in the coffin right there, no way the games would reference Ash since he's only in the anime. Also, look how bland Popplio's supposed evolution looks. And it suddenly turns into an opera singer mermaid from a circus sealion that makes bubbles it bounces on, where's the connection? Rowlet's evolution looks cool, though.
I know this is rather off-topic, but I just noticed that Incineroar's picture has Mallow boiling a kettle on its fire belt while it's snoozing.

Back on topic somewhat, does anyone remember when we thought Mega Mewtwo Y was a brand new Pokemon, or a brand new forme of Mewtwo? I recall it was referred to as its "awakened" forme before we learned that it was but the first of several Mega Evolution formes, as demonstrated when Corocoro leaks presented it alongside the Mega Evolutions of Blaziken, Mawile, Ampharos, Lucario, and Absol.
 

Pikachu315111

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I know this is rather off-topic, but I just noticed that Incineroar's picture has Mallow boiling a kettle on its fire belt while it's snoozing.
Actually, that was the first hint that these weren't fake. The Alolan Final Starters leak is nowadays considered one of the biggest leaks to happen as they were leaked around the same time the Starters basic stages were just revealed (you know, pretty much the very first pieces of info you get about a new Pokemon game). At that time the Captains weren't revealed. So you can imagine when a month or so later, when the Captain were revealed with Mallow being one of them, people were freaking out as Incineroar had Mallow on it. Now some people still denying the leaks said maybe the person who made this did actually have some legit leaks, Mallow being one of them, so included her for this purpose (though it was pointed out if they had legit leaks why didn't they just release those and/or if they had such access wouldn't that make these leaks just as credible).

Hey, whatever happened to the old "new game" discussion boards? And not just for Sun & Moon, I know there was also one for Black & White as that when I joined.
 

Karxrida

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Remember when people thought Gen 6.5 (whatever that meant) was going to be a thing before we got any concrete info on Sun and Moon? Or even before Sun and Moon were announced?

Boy that was dumb. If I remember correctly, some fans were weirdly insistent that we wouldn't have a new region but would still get entirely new Pokémon in Z (a game that obviously didn't happen).
 
Remember when people thought Gen 6.5 (whatever that meant) was going to be a thing before we got any concrete info on Sun and Moon? Or even before Sun and Moon were announced?

Boy that was dumb. If I remember correctly, some fans were weirdly insistent that we wouldn't have a new region but would still get entirely new Pokémon in Z (a game that obviously didn't happen).
Well, it's easy to say that now.

But back in late 2015 when Gamefreak starting making a buzz about Zygarde alternate forms and Squishy the Zygarde core and Ash-Greninja. But then they show off Megearna and drop Zygarde off like hot garbage. And we're all going crazy wondering what's going on since this defies all the patterns.

So given a lack of info and some mysteriously hyped elements only to be shut-down, it stands to reason that some wild theories cropped up while we had no idea what was going on.




 
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Pikachu315111

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Ah yes, when it was realized Pokemon Z wasn't a thing.





But hey, Zygarde was SO important to the plot of Sun & Moon as we predicted, I mean they weren't just going to shove it in there and do nothing with it.

Also, remembered when we fought whether Ash-Greninja was going to be an anime only thing? Or how the rumor was in the games it was going to be called Rainbow-Greninja because, once again, they would never mention Ash in the games.
 
Yeah, Sun and Moon speculation was just insanely bad. And I kept actually calling things accurately. Not 100% of the time, but I was more right than many. I constantly said that Synchro Evolution wasn't going to be a thing, I constantly said that Mega Evolutions wouldn't be removed. It's the same thing with the Star Wars community: I make predictions based on logic, many others just overthinking or underthinking.
 
Nothing will ever top the wall to wall nonsense that was gen 5 for me. Specifically focused on the starters, whose images leaked out well before they were revealed. And everyone losing their minds. I saw so many dissections and arguments going "no they're fake, really!". FORENSIC IMAGE ANALYSIS! "They're clearly edits of Milotic, Lickilicky and Rhyperior." GameFreak would NEVER put samurott on all 4s! OSHAWOTT HAS TO BECOME A BIPEDAL SAMURAI!! It was a solid month of this, at least, and even when the middle stage starters leaked out there was STILL arguments (similar to SM actually, heh)
Or how the entire dex was given to pokeexperto and they were leaking them out through twitter and everyone going "no these can't be real!!!!". Oh no not a garbage bag pokemon. "The nose isn't funny anymore". The musketeer trio.
Or in fakes, let's not forget when serebii posted fake corocoro scans of the sad fish and such. Never let him live that one down! Gen 5 was also definitely the golden age of fake corocoro scans, they really died off in gens 6 & 7.
And when everyone believed a fake text leak that was made for the express purpose of showing how easy it is to make a fake text leak.
When the games actually came out, there was a big amount of fake information pertaining to the end game, like Bianca (somehow) being the Champion. And people angry at that because ?????

BW2 had it's fair share, but the big one I remember was during that first dead month and people thought it would have new pokemon. Cactus Owl as a new starter for unova!

And lord, the amount of vitriol spewed at PokeJungle for sharing rumors and fakes because idiots believed them wholesale even when pokejungle put on a dozen warnings about the info.

Fan theories post-release were a (Terrible) treat too, especially since BW got sequels. Big 2 I remember are "the striaton gym leaders are shadow triad" and "N is a zoroark". The second one I can kind of see why, but it was still pretty dumbo. But man that first one! I am convinced the entire reason there's a dedicated Shadow Triad memory link scene with the striaton triplets was to put that one to bed. It was also great because it's likely that was the "twist" Special was going to have, then they had to back peddle on it.
 
When the games actually came out, there was a big amount of fake information pertaining to the end game, like Bianca (somehow) being the Champion. And people angry at that because ?????
Thought that was because people found Bianca's postgame team in the data and misunderstood. Same with people thinking the Ghetsis theme was for Genesect and such.
 
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Thought that was because people found Bianca's postgame team in the data and misunderstood. Same with people thinking the Ghetsis theme was for Genosect and such.
There was a lot of information flying around, so that first part is probable.

And thank you so much for bringing up the ghetsis theme thing, that was great too.
 

Pikachu315111

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Ooh, how about the time it was discovered they left in all the Trainer's VS poses, names, and teams in the ORAS demo? That was a fun time, especially when judging the new looks of the Gym Leaders/Elite Four we haven't seen yet as well as trying to figure out who the heck this "Lore Keeper Zinnia" was.

Well, it was a good thing they learned from that experience and made sure to completely clean out the SM demo... except for the Pokedex still images, certain Signature Moves, TM list, the Beast Ball, changes done to items, item images, Z-Crystal image (which revealed Mew getting one), map icons, and battle intros. But it's not like any major spoilers were revealed... (seriously, I think the SM demo datamine spoiled more than the ORAS demo datamine).
 
Ooh, how about the time it was discovered they left in all the Trainer's VS poses, names, and teams in the ORAS demo? That was a fun time, especially when judging the new looks of the Gym Leaders/Elite Four we haven't seen yet as well as trying to figure out who the heck this "Lore Keeper Zinnia" was.

Well, it was a good thing they learned from that experience and made sure to completely clean out the SM demo... except for the Pokedex still images, certain Signature Moves, TM list, the Beast Ball, changes done to items, item images, Z-Crystal image (which revealed Mew getting one), map icons, and battle intros. But it's not like any major spoilers were revealed... (seriously, I think the SM demo datamine spoiled more than the ORAS demo datamine).
lol this is severely underrating the oras demo. SM demo feels like more because it aws a new gen, but oras had:
-full encounter tables
-every single trainer team
-hoopa-u and had it been earlyer, all the other megas
-while the maps and models were out, the location data was in
-the entire game script including post game
-move tutors

SM's big flaw was leaving in a handful of move data (not all of it, and the tm list lacked proper names) and a lot of image data which unfortunately included pokemon. It actually did scrub out almost everything else, which makes the dex images staying in.............unfortunate.

Side note: BOTH DEMOS having people go out of the woodwork to go "oh no, this can't be every mega/form/pokemon, it's just a demo!".
 
I remember looking at Mega Rayquaza's stats and thinking they couldn't be correct because of what one news article about the official release said about it. Hah.
 

Pikachu315111

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lol this is severely underrating the oras demo. SM demo feels like more because it aws a new gen, but oras had:
-full encounter tables
-every single trainer team
-hoopa-u and had it been earlyer, all the other megas
-while the maps and models were out, the location data was in
-the entire game script including post game
-move tutors

SM's big flaw was leaving in a handful of move data (not all of it, and the tm list lacked proper names) and a lot of image data which unfortunately included pokemon. It actually did scrub out almost everything else, which makes the dex images staying in.............unfortunate.

Side note: BOTH DEMOS having people go out of the woodwork to go "oh no, this can't be every mega/form/pokemon, it's just a demo!".
Oh, right, forgot ORAS had the entire game script. I ignored them as I didn't want story spoilers, but yeah, that was probably a bigger mistake than the SM datamine. And of course there was the stats for the Hoopa-U & Megas, though I personally consider new new Pokemon leak bigger than the reveal of all Mega Pokemon.

But you're right that on the technical level ORAS was the bigger leak considering what they left in.
 
Oh, right, forgot ORAS had the entire game script. I ignored them as I didn't want story spoilers, but yeah, that was probably a bigger mistake than the SM datamine. And of course there was the stats for the Hoopa-U & Megas, though I personally consider new new Pokemon leak bigger than the reveal of all Mega Pokemon.

But you're right that on the technical level ORAS was the bigger leak considering what they left in.
Well, at least they learned some of the mistakes in SM by putting Pikachu's data in place of those of Pokemon that didn't appear in the demo.

But then they forgot to erase the Pokedex images...
 

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