Heatran (QC 1/3)

[Laga]

Overview
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• Amazing defensive typing allows it to counter a multitude of almost entire typings, such as Steel-, Bug-, Fire-, and Grass-types.
• Powerful STAB spread moves in Heat Wave and Eruption.
• Formidable bulk, being able to survive even super effective attacks, such as Rotom-Ws Hydro Pump
• Unfortunately, has middling Speed, so speed control is almost necessary.
• 4x weakness to Ground is very exploitable

Substitute
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name: Substitute
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Heat Wave
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Protect
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers
evs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
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• Substitute is a great move if used correctly, Heatran's resistances + immunities = not so hard to set up
• Heat Wave is for consistent STAB spread move for use after a Substitute has been set
• Earth Power provides much-needed coverage against Rock- and Fire-types, especially opposing Heatran.
• Protect is a great move on any Doubles Pokemon, and it is very good to use alongside Substitute, since you will be double-targeted sometimes.

Set Details
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• EVs outspeed Rotom-W and Cress, and throw the remaining into HP and special atk
• Leftovers is the main item choice, as it works well in tandem with SubProtect.
• could use Charcoal to 2HKO Landorus-T (or something - i'll check this later imo)
• You could minimize speed and use it effectively on a Trick Room team.

Usage Tips
========

• Mention that one should use Heatran ridiculous amounts of resistances / immunities to set up a Substitute.
• From there, use Heat Wave and Protect accordingly, and EP for the occasional Rock or Fire
• Don't ever stay in against a Ground-type with a STAB attack, as it will easily kill you. It is also often a good idea to scout for Hidden Power Ground with Protect against Pokemon such as Latios or Genesect.
• This Heatran set can be used effectively as a switch-in - especially from Grass-types as it has nice defensive synergy with them.

Team Options
========

• Hitmontop is by far Heatran's favorite partner (mention how Intimidate, Wide Guard, and Fake Out greatly help Heatran fulfill it's role to the max)
• Icy Wind / Trick Room Cress is a great partner too (mention how Icy Wind both controls speed for Heatran and additionally hits Garchomp and Landorus-T very hard) [potentially mention Skill Swap too]
• Gardevoir / Latios = great offensive core with Heatran, they lure in Steel- and Bug-types for Heatran to set up Substitutes on. Latios also help disposing of Garchomp and can set up a Tailwind for Heatran to function better.

ErupTran
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name: ErupTran
move 1: Eruption
move 2: Heat Wave
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Protect
ability: Flash Fire
item: Charcoal
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
nature: Quiet

Moves
========

• ERUPTION IS FUCKING POWERFUL
• Heat Wave is there for backup STAB spread move
• Earth Power is, again, for coverage vs Fire and Rock
• Protect is great for scouting, racking up leftovers recovery, and messing up offensive strategies.

Set Details
========

• Speed is minimized, since this set should be used with Trick Room support.
• Charcoal is the best item, as it boosts the power of Eruption while maintaining choice of moves and protect.

Usage Tips
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• Mentioning the fact that Protect is very useful when outside of TR, to shield Heatran while TR is potentially set back up.
• Don't go for Eruption or Heat Wave against an obvious Wide Guard user such as Hitmontop unless you have Feint support by your side.

Team Options
========

• Trick Room setters are good support - Cress and Trev get their own mentions
• Cresselia is a great supporter for Heatran, since it can both set up Trick Room and support its spread moves with Helping Hand: also immune to EQ.
• Trevenant has great synergy with Heatran, it OHKOs Rotom-W and Gastrodon, and burns threatening Fighting- and Ground-types.
• Dusclops is also great, since WoW and weakening opposition with Pain Split will both help Heatran function like a baller.
• Scrafty is also a great teammate: It has Intimidate + Fake Out for general support, and can deal with problematic Latios and Latias.

Special Attacker
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name: Special Attacker
move 1: Heat Wave / Fire Blast
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Fire Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Protect
ability: Flash Fire
item: Shuca Berry
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========

Other Options
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• HP Grass for Water mons
• Flash Cannon for fairies
• WoW for utility.
• Chople Berry
• Specs if you are manly enough
• Scarf for outspeeding stuff

Checks & Counters
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**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Ground-types just kill. Water-types can both tank STAB fire attacks and hit back hard; Gastrodon, Rotom-W, Gyarados eat it up. Dragon-types with Earthquake such as Dragonite and Salamence take minimal damage from Heatran's attacks and OHKO back.

**Utility**: Taunt prevents Substitute, Encore locks you into it, Wide Guard blocks Heat Waves.

 

[Laga]

This is ready for QC checks =]

 

[Lolk]

Don't just say Protect is obligatory, say how it scouts for moves, racks up leftovers recovery, and messes up offensive strategies.

WoW is Other options because its cool.

Mention Dusclops as a trick room setter since Dusclops can burn the Ground- and Fighting-type Pokemon threatening Heatran. Also put that in your detail about trevenant.

Your checks and counters needs more detail. Instead of listing Ground- and Fighting-types say **super effective coverage** and go from there. Instead of **Taunt and Wide Guard** say something like **Utility** and mention Taunt, Wide Guard, and Encore etc. in there. **Type Advantages** would work better than **Water-types** so you could mention more Pokemon such as Rotom-H and Dragon/Flying-types. These just sound more formal and professional but that's just my opinion :)

I am not QC so take what what you will :)

 

[Nollan]

No mention of Shuca Berry? Seriously? Don't think I need to explain why that should be slashed on the Substitute set.

Also with the new Wide Guard mechanics its plausible to run a non spread Fire attack on Eruption Heatran, so as to not feel somewhat useless around Hitmontops.

-EDIT-
Looks fine overall, so assuming you completely changes mentioned by Lolk and myself:

QC APPROVAL (w/ lazy stamp) 1/3

 

[Laga]

Implemented both of these checks =] you need a cool approval stamp Nollan, you should go post an awesome pic / gif in this thread ;)

 

[Darkmalice]

The Substitute set is useable in Trick Room. For example, Cress can support it with TR instead of Icy Wind whilst still providing Skill Swap and/or Sunny Day support. This should be mentioned in AC.

There should also be an AC mention of defensive and speed EV benchmarks to take into account for SubTran, as its one of those sets in which EVs can be greatly modified to your liking. I'll post some later.

Dragon Pulse deserves OO - hits Latios, Kyurem-B, and Yache Berry Dragons harder than any of its other attacks, and provides good coverage with Heat Wave.

On the topic of WoW Dusclops, it can also use WoW on Heatran to give it a Flash Fire boost instead of just burning the opposition.

Specs is mentioned in the AC of ErupTran, but I think it should be demoted to OO, as Heatran is one of those Pokemon that cannot afford to give up Protect thanks to its reliance on speed support to avoid super-effective attacks.

I also think Scarf deserves OO mention. It remedies its middling speed without requiring speed support whilst still hits hard, especially when paired with Charizard-Y. Set of Heat Wave, Overheat, Earth Power and Flash Cannon / HP Ice / Dragon Pulse provides good coverage and power.

 

[Laga]

Added Darkmalice's points, except the AC mention of defensive benchmarks - it would be nice if you could mention some if you want me to add them. The main EV spread hits the only relevant Speed benchmark tho (Rotom-W + Cress) for SubTran.

 

[Nollan]

Actually by the looks of your Heatran spread you only speed tie with Rotom-W. I'd run 80 Speed EVs, which outspeeds 4 Spe Rotom-W (better safe then sorry imo). Just take 8 EVs out of HP/SpA to accomplish this.

 

[Stratos]

NO SPEED CREEP :|

analysis policy is that you only EV to beat mins or maxes and never to beat your own species, so that speed creep in analyses doesnt get ridiculous

 

[Nollan]

NO SPEED CREEP :|

analysis policy is that you only EV to beat mins or maxes and never to beat your own species, so that speed creep in analyses doesnt get ridiculous

Alright, my bad, 76 EVs then (to outspeed Rotom-W rather than tie with it).

 

[Mizuhime]

For Usage tips i'd like to see mention of avoiding Ground-type attacks at all cost as Heatran will get destroyed. As well as mention of how Heatran has great typing synergy witth Grass-types who are afraid of Fire-type attacks as well as Talonflame, so using Heatran as a switch in isn't a bad idea

(QC APPROVED 2/3)

 

[Lolk]

For the first set:

Add Air Balloon to set comments. I personally would never use charcoal on that set but the 2HKO on Landoge is a good enough reason for a mention i guess.

Mention Togekiss as a partner since it redirects attacks (specifically fighting type) and lets Heatran set up easy Subs. It also sets up Tailwind :o

Also mention Water-types as partners since they can kill Landoge and other Ground types and they lure Amoonguss which Heatran can set up on :)

For the second set:

slash Fire Blast behind Heat Wave. Heatran needs something to do against Wide Guard users and it doesnt really need two spread fire-type attacks.

For Checks and Counters:

List specific Ground-types >:[

Add HP Ground Latios which is a common lure that rapes the shit out of Heatran.

Just say that HP Ground as a whole can be put on many mons such as Gengar and Charizard for the surprise KO.

Earth Power Skymin outspeeds, but it probably needs a **Speed** tag since it can't switch in. Gengar also can't switch in so it probably needs to go there too.

Air Ballon Heatran beats other Heatran.

Do this and I will stamp :)

 

[Nollan]

For the first set:
slash Fire Blast behind Heat Wave. Heatran needs something to do against Wide Guard users and it doesnt really need two spread fire-type attacks.

Flamethrower is the better option imo. You will usually be in a tight spot when you have to fall back on your slot 3 Fire-type STAB, and risking a miss with 85% accuracy is usually not going to be a good idea.

 

[Audiosurfer]

no set for just a general attacker? it's not the most popular variant but is still good enough to get a mention. and also i agree w/ fire blast > flamethrower since the extra power is pretty sweet, but im not too passionate either way so whatever you go with is cool

 

[Stratos]

heres a spread for the substitute i like better:

252 hp / 16 def / 164 SpA / 76 spe, (still modest) it does the same things as your spread but lives 252+ top CC 100% of the time, which is a relevant benchmark because top is so ridiculously often paired with Mega Charizard Y. You dont need the special attack for much tbh.

overview: speed control is hardly necessary, u just need to be able to beat heatrans faster counters in one way or another
overview: mention its somewhat patchy coverage (dragons, fire floaters, waters) lol all day

Usage tips: don't ever stay in on a ground with STAB (UNLESS YOURE BEHIND A SUB)
usage tips: don't get too attached to the heatran sweep, he can come in multiple times throughout the battle so feel free to switch him out if you are in danger

team options: sun/sand because rain really sucks le chode
team options: on teams that have troubles with steel-types (scizor, aegi, gene) tran works exceptionally well

set: slash fire blast after heat wave on eruptran imo for le wide guard

team options: dusclops is not great bc dusclops is shitty, remove that word from ur vocabulary

oo: taunt and ancientpower are musts, ur call on SR

set details 2, usage tips 2, and c&c are weak, u can do better than that :|, ill stamp once u fix those up

 

[Audiosurfer]

personally I like the current spread better. You can outspeed top and set up a Substitute to shield yourself from the CC anyways, leaving it vulnerable to you after the defensive drop. There's no reason you should be forced to eat a CC regularly except through poor playing. It's a spread that could be mentioned but shouldn't be the first one listed imo

also be sure to add the general attacking set like i said

 

[Lasagne]

I know the set is called substitute, but I honestly think ancientpower could be slashed with sub. Its rly useful for beating mons that heatran is meant to do well against (zardy, talonflame) as otherwise it can't do much damage at all to them :/
I also often find that sub isn't rly that useful, and i just use ancient power for the useful coverage. Sub still deserves the first slash, i just think ancient power is a possible second slash.

it should be at least set details (its not even in oo wtf)

oh i guess it could go on audios general attacker set. Or the substitute set could become the general attacker set, as i don't see how that would be very different from sub apart from not having sub
my 2 cents

 

[youngjake93]

I know the set is called substitute, but I honestly think ancientpower could be slashed with sub. Its rly useful for beating mons that heatran is meant to do well against (zardy, talonflame) as otherwise it can't do much damage at all to them :/
I also often find that sub isn't rly that useful, and i just use ancient power for the useful coverage. Sub still deserves the first slash, i just think ancient power is a possible second slash.

it should be at least set details (its not even in oo wtf)

oh i guess it could go on audios general attacker set. Or the substitute set could become the general attacker set, as i don't see how that would be very different from sub apart from not having sub
my 2 cents

That does seem like an OO tbh.
Sub lefties tran will already completely destroy talonflame and charY that lack Focus Blast. Whether they switch out or stay in, scoring a free sub without support is awesome. Usually they will be inclined to switch out, in which case ancientpower is useless. You would rather be prepared for the switch in with that sub.
However, on a team where you need extra insurance against Talonflame and CharY because your team is particularly weak to it, then I could see it being very useful. It also hits balloon tran/chandy and dnite/mence/gya if you lack a sun/flash fire boost
Also, lol "sub really isn't that useful"

 

[Lasagne]

72 EVs only speed ties with min speed rotom-w, you need 76 to outspeed

 

[Audiosurfer]

Laga, please add a general special attacker set as a 3rd set like I asked. once this is done then lemme know and I'll relook at this and give you another qc stamp

 

[Mizuhime]

Laga don't make me yell at you on irc