Gourgeist-XL (QC: 2/3) (QC Rejected: 2/3)

Punchshroom

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Overview
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The largest form of Gourgeist is not only the most elusive form of Gourgeist, but is also amongst the bulkiest of available spinblockers, and isn't just good for that role either. It has an interesting Grass / Ghost typing which it only shares with its smaller forms as well as Trevenant, netting useful resistances to Ground, Water, and Electric as well as an immunity to Fighting and Normal. Gourgeist-XL's typing and high physical bulk allows it to consistently counter the best and most common OU Rapid Spinner that is Excadrill with incredible ease. Its access to Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed allows it to both tank physical attackers really well and inflict tons of residual damage on the opponent at the same time. Its abilities aren't really too great, but Frisk can scout an opponent's item, which can reveal the opponent's method of play or even what kind of Mega Evolution they are using, should it not be obvious. Unfortunately, while its typing grants it several useful resists, a good percentage of them are specially based, and Gourgeist cannot take their coverage moves. It is also plagued by several weaknesses, leaving it vulnerable to several top tier threats. Not only that, but its combination of low speed and vulnerability to status is not something it favors very well either, and even its offensive movepool is wasted due to misplaced stats. That said, while it is difficult for Gourgeist to stand out, it does give most physical attackers a hard time while at the same time spinblocking with impunity against Excadrill. With its typing, bulk, and good longevity, Gourgeist-XL is certainly more full of tricks than treats.
Defensive Spinblocker
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Name: Defensive Spinblocker
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Protect
move 4: Seed Bomb / Rock Slide
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Impish

Moves
========

Almost all of Gourgeist-XL's moves are dual purposed. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers and racks up passive damage, while also preventing Swords Dance Excadrill, or boosting physical attackers in general, from overwhelming Gourgeist-XL. Leech Seed provides both quick healing and a way to rack up passive damage with Will-O-Wisp, offering another way to deter setup sweepers from waltzing in on Gourgeist. Protect scouts a Choiced opponent's attack, which Gourgeist-XL can identify by Frisking, or stall for a turn to inflict more residual damage and recover more health. Seed Bomb is Gourgeist-XL's most reliable attack, which stops it from being total Taunt bait and helps to wear down Pokemon much faster as they suffer from residual damage, such as Gyarados, Excadrill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, and Tyranitar. On the other hand, Rock Slide gives Gourgeist a way to fight back against Fire-type switch-ins, though it is much less effective at wearing down neutral opponents. Pain Split can do damage and heal Gourgeist-XL simultaneously, while any residual damage the foe incurs puts Gourgeist-XL at a health advantage, but Gourgeist-XL has too little Speed and a bit too much HP to effectively use this move. Shadow Sneak is for priority, which can finish off weakened foes that nearly succumb to burns and/or Leech Seed, but is incredibly weak against anything not named Gengar or Alakazam. Toxic can be used over Will-O-Wisp to cripple bulky Defoggers and Fire-type switch-ins such as Latias, Mandibuzz and Charizard, while stacking up considerable damage alongside Leech Seed, but it exposes Gourgeist more to boosting physical attackers such as Garchomp, Gyarados, and most importantly Swords Dance Excadrill, which now has a chance to defeat Gourgeist.

Set Details
========

Maximum physical bulk gives Gourgeist-XL the best chance of beating Swords Dance Excadrill one-on-one, and also allows it to handle the majority of physical attackers that can be burned, such as Garchomp, Diggersby, Gyarados, Azumarill, and Kabutops. A specially bulky spread may be used to handle Water-types and Electric-types better, namely Keldeo, Thundurus-I, and Landorus-I, but this would weaken the Swords Dance Excadrill matchup and Gourgeist-XL generally has little business taking on special attackers anyway since burns do not affect their power, meaning Gourgeist-XL would struggle more at handling these threats.

Usage Tips
========

Using its bulk and typing, Gourgeist-XL can be called upon to wall or/and burn attackers such as Gyarados, Garchomp, Dragonite, Terrakion, Kabutops, Landorus-T, Diggersby, Breloom, physical Lucario, Azumarill, and to a lesser extent Mega Medicham. Its primary role is spinblocking though, so it would expect to face off against OU's most relevant Rapid Spinner, Excadrill, often. Once in, Gourgeist-XL should spread burns with Will-O-Wisp as much as possible, though Leech Seed should be used first if the opponent has any Fire-types. Protect can be used alternately to stall for more burn damage and/or Leech Seed recovery, but should be used sparingly to prevent the opponent from getting free switches. Gourgeist-XL would prefer to enter battle if Stealth Rock has been set on the opponent's field, so the opponent's Fire- and Flying-types would have a harder time switching in.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-XL tends to find itself on more defensively-minded teams, since offensive teams usually cannot afford to deal with Gourgeist-XL's tendency to let the opponent set up. Since Gourgeist-XL does a fantastic job at spinblocking Excadrill, it naturally pairs well with hazards setters, though there are not a lot of defensive Spikes users that would synergize well with Gourgeist; Skarmory resists Flying-type moves while Gourgeist resists Electric, while Klefki takes Dark-, Ice-, and Flying-type moves while Gourgeist handles Ground-types for Klefki, but do note their common weakness to Fire. Tyranitar in particular can use Stealth Rock while having great defensive synergy with Gourgeist-XL, as it resists Fire, Ghost, Flying, and Dark, while Gourgeist-XL takes Fighting, Water, Grass, and Ground moves for Tyranitar. Bisharp and Thundurus-I make good partners for the same reasons: their Defiant ability discourages Defog which cannot be blocked by Gourgeist-XL, while threatening Latias and Mandibuzz respectively. In return, Gourgeist-XL takes Fighting and Ground moves aimed at Bisharp and Rock-type moves for Thundurus-I, while Bisharp covers Gourgeist-XL's Ghost, Dark, Ice and Flying weaknesses and Thundurus-I threatens many Flying-type Pokemon; however watch out for the compounded Fire and Ice weakness, respectively. Gourgeist-XL has lackluster Special Defense, making specially bulky Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Chansey, and Heatran excellent partners while also sporting good defensive synergy. Sylveon, Vaporeon, Clefable, and Chansey provide Wish and cleric support, which are both very helpful for Gourgeist-XL. Fire-type such as Talonflame, Volcarona, Heatran, and Charizard can switch in on Gourgeist-XL with impunity for the most part, so responses to Fire-types, such as Tyranitar and Azumarill, are highly recommended. Since Gourgeist-XL tends to be setup fodder, Quagsire or Clefable can make good partners due to their Unaware abilities, with Quagsire offering decent defensive synergy while Clefable provides Wish and cleric support.

Other Options
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Gourgeist-XL has some interesting move options, but most of them are unviable due to Gourgeist's poor stat placement. Destiny Bond to net a surprise kill or discourages opponents from KOing Gourgeist-XL for the latter to net more Leech Seed recovery, but Gourgeist-XL is too slow to put it to good use, and Protect is better for stalling opponents. Phantom Force is Gourgeist-XL's strongest STAB attack, but its charge turn allows opponents to respond with impunity, letting them easily escape the residual damage chain. Fire Blast hits unsuspecting Steel-types such as Scizor and Ferrothorn, but is very weak otherwise, and most Steel-types dislike being burned by Will-O-Wisp more anyway. Disable may be effective due to Gourgeist's typing which tends to leave it vulnerable to only that one attack from most opponents, but Gourgeist-XL is again too slow to make effectively use it, since it must take a full powered hit almost every time, unlike the speedy Gengar with its Substitute. Gourgeist-XL knows Explosion, but it's weak without investment, and sometimes even with, and counter-intuitive for a spinblocker. That said, Explosion combos well with Trick Room, which Gourgeist-XL being one of its bulkier users, to safely bring in its teammates via Explosion; however, Gourgeist does not make good use of Trick Room itself due to its weak attacks, so it is often forced to Explode immediately to avoid wasting precious turns, throwing away its bulk advantage.

Checks & Counters
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**Fire-types**: Fire-types are easily Gourgeist-XL's biggest nemeses, as they are immune to Will-O-Wisp, and can KO or force out the pumpkin with STAB moves before Leech Seed even begins taking noticeable effect. Talonflame, Volcarona, Charizard, and Heatran all majorly threaten Gourgeist-XL, though the former three should be wary of Rock Slide if Gourgeist does carry it, while the latter has to worry about its health dwindling too much from repeated Leech Seeds + Protects.

**Residual damage immunity**: Magic Guard Clefable absolutely disregards anything Gourgeist-XL does, and sets up easily on the pumpkin, while Magic Guard Alakazam can quickly beat Gourgeist with Shadow Ball. Poison Heal Gliscor will not lose any health from Leech Seed and cannot be burned had its Toxic Orb activated prior, though it would result in a stalemate should Gliscor not be packing Toxic. Substitute users, such as Kyurem-B, Scolipede, and Mega Mawile, fear nothing from Gourgeist-XL. Any Magic Bounce user can set up on Gourgeist with ease; Espeon and Xatu can take their time, while Gourgeist-XL is a free Swords Dance for Mega Absol. While Taunt users cannot directly switch in safely without risking a status move, they can prevent Gourgeist-XL from doing much else.

**Status**: Gourgeist-XL's greatest asset is its longevity, and status really screws it up in a big way. Poison and burn make life very difficult for Gourgeist-XL has it struggles to remain healthy as Leech Seed only heals so much, while paralysis can make Gourgeist-XL miss a crucial turn, especially if it disrupted Protect.

**Special attacks**: When it comes down to it, the simplest way to get rid of Gourgeist-XL is to just smack it with a really strong special attack, since it does not have great special bulk and has a lot of weaknesses, while special attackers are not crippled by burns, though getting a clean shot on it without suffering residual damage on the switch is the tricky part. The aforementioned Fire-types do this well, while the likes of Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball, Fire Blast and Ice Beam would leave a huge dent in Gourgeist-XL, if not KO it outright.
 
Last edited:

Srn

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I'd maybe mention TR in OO, he's one of the much bulkier pokemon that can get it, and can even explode right after to get a pokemon in safely.
I think that protect should come before Pain Split. Losing out on protect means losing even better scouting with frisk, e.g. you don't have to switch out on a keldeo fearing hp flying then getting predicted. Pain Split has its merits, but between Leech Seed and Protect you should be getting all you need. Most of the time you're using Leech Seed or WoW where you might be using Pain Split to be more annoying and effective, and I overall believe Pain Split really doesn't need to be there.
Everything else I needed to say was covered above.
 
Offensive movepool wasted due to misplaced stats
Remove this; there is no reason to include this in the overview when it doesn't help us learn anything about Gourgiest-XL. You could say it suffers from its low offensive stats, but you shouldn't mention its offensive movepool if you aren't going to use it.

Mention Klefki as a Spikes setter as it has overall good synergy with Gourgiest-XL and can paralyze foes to somewhat make up for Gourgiest-XL's low Speed.

I'd also like Toxic to be in moves, it's nice to cripple some common switch-ins as well as bulky Defog users such as Mandibuzz and Latios.
 

Punchshroom

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Remove this; there is no reason to include this in the overview when it doesn't help us learn anything about Gourgiest-XL. You could say it suffers from its low offensive stats, but you shouldn't mention its offensive movepool if you aren't going to use it.

Mention Klefki as a Spikes setter as it has overall good synergy with Gourgiest-XL and can paralyze foes to somewhat make up for Gourgiest-XL's low Speed.

I'd also like Toxic to be in moves, it's nice to cripple some common switch-ins as well as bulky Defog users such as Mandibuzz and Latios.
Thing is, Gourgeist's special movepool would actually be respectable enough to defend itself with if its Special Attack wasn't such shit. I wished its offensive stats were swapped, that's all.

Yeah I'll add Klefki and Toxic.
 

Punchshroom

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Whoops, written. I also slashed Rock Slide in moves, since Seed Bomb is honestly somewhat dispensable for the threat Gourgeist-XL already walls, while hitting Talon and Zards on the switch is huge.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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You need to add a gap between the end of the overview and the tag "Defensive Spinblocker"
 

Jukain

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I and other QC members are considering rejecting this because of the following:

Gourgeist-XL faces immense competition as a bulky Grass-type from Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Chesnaught, which all share one thing in common: they beat Aegislash. Gourgeist-XL flat-out loses to the best Pokemon in OU while its brethren does not, that's the first issue. It's also utterly screwed by Knock Off which means it flat-out loses to Bisharp, another major downside. Its competition have various other things that make them good, such as Mega Venu's reliable recovery, Sleep Powder, overall insane bulk, and good Special Attack; Amoonguss's Spore, Regen recovery, and Foul Play; and Chesnaught's Bulletproof, Leech Seed + Spiky Shield, and rather unique/very good typing (for a defensive Pokemon, obviously Breloom shares the typing but they're different). If we're thinking in terms of bulky Ghost-types it faces major competition with Aegislash, which is amazing for a number of obvious reasons. Even though the role of a spinblocker is basically dead, let's say I really wanted something to spinblock Exca, I would use Gourgeist-Small which has actually pretty good Speed that lets it Leech Seed stall/spread burn much more effectively as Gourgeist-XL wishes it could do.

Overall I would say that Gourgeist-XL is lacking in a niche. In every aspect of its existence it faces competition with mainstays of the tier, such to the point where I don't think it's worthy of consideration for a team. I'm just going to go ahead and reject, sorry man. Good job on the analysis though, this is really well done.

QC Rejected 1/3
 
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CyclicCompound

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I'm agreeing with Jukain here. Gourgeist-S does basically everything Gourgeist-XL can do but is so much more threatening due to a speedy Will-O-Wisp. Not only that, but like Jukain touched upon, Gourgeist-XL has a really bad matchup against much of the metagame, to the point where its defensive qualities (its main advantage not only over Gourgeist-S, but over other Ghost-types) are essentially nullified.

It's also major setup bait for a number of Pokemon—that, combined with its not-so-hot typing, means it often needs more support than it's giving back in the form of spinblocking. Consider also that spinblocking is not really necessary for the bulky, more defensive teams that you'd tend to find Gourgeist-XL on, since they don't have all that much trouble resetting hazards. On the other hand, if a HO or other kind of offensive team really relied on hazards and wanted a spinblocker, they would use Gourgeist-S or Air Balloon Aegislash or something, which fits in that sort of team far better than Gourgeist-XL.

I'm sorry, the analysis is really nice and thorough and if only Gourgeist-XL itself was a bit better then it would be fine. But right now, I don't think Gourgeist has much of a place in this metagame.

QC Rejected 2/3
 
[09:05 pm] <MarioKart8WiiU> someone kill the pumpkin
[09:09 pm] <@jukain> bkc kill the pumpkin 2

nothin but an assassin

rejected 3/3
 

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