Gen 1 Gen 1 “variety”

Is double edge on Tauros a good idea instead of body slam?


  • Total voters
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I’ve been playing a lot of Gen 1 recently. So much, in fact, that when I finally came back to do a few Gen 7 battles, I was genuinely surprised to see mega-gardevoir. It had certainly been a while.


But we’re not here to talk about gen 7! No, today the question I bring you is a short one, but it certainly had me puzzled. As we all know, gen 1 teams are basically all built the same way. Alakazam, Tauros, either golem or rhydon, and fill in the rest with whatever you want. Those three pokemon’s movesets are usually the same across all teams. What I want to know is this: are there any possible changes that might work even better?


Let’s start with the obvious one.


Alakazam


- Psychic

- Recover

- Seismic Toss

- Thunder Wave


Alakazam is a staple on RBY teams. There isn’t really any valid argument otherwise. Psychic is both the perfect move and the perfect type. Recover gives him something that a lot of Pokémon in RBY dream of, longevity. I personally prefer seismic toss instead of reflect, mostly for the PP. Alakazam that can’t attack loses a lot of his value, but he can at least stall a little with just seismic toss and recover. Being the fastest common Pokémon in RBY combined with thunder wave means he can almost always get paralysis off before the opponent moves, possibly granting a free turn or two.


I like him as a lead instead of a sleep user for a few reasons. First of all, putting the opponents sleep lead to sleep isn’t really all that important. Gengar still blocks explosion even when asleep, and exeggutor and Jynx aren’t top threats on their own. I’d rather save my exeggutor for later and put something more important to sleep. Alakazam is also one of the only Pokémon that can sometimes beat a common sleep lead, Gengar. A critical hit or a miss from Gengar makes an easy kill.


Exeggutor


- Sleep Powder

- Psychic

- Explosion

- Mega Drain


Exeggutor is mostly on my team because I think every team needs a sleeper, and I believe he’s the best. Despite being slower than Gengar or jynx, I like him for his bulk, and more importantly, an explosion with some pop. Gengar can explode, but his doesn’t have the power that exeggutor packs. The rest of his moves are pretty obvious. Psychic is almost perfect, mega drain catches water types or golem/rhydon for a lot of damage and a nice health boost.


Tauros


- Double-Edge

- Hyper Beam

- Blizzard

- Earthquake


Here’s the strange one. I prefer double edge instead of body slam on my Tauros for the extra power.


Tauros is primarily a late-game cleaner. Body slam has a nice paralyze chance, but Tauros should be coming in very late and normally shouldn’t be dealing with very many, if any, non-paralyzed opponents. Double edge makes some hits that body slam might barely miss the KO into finishes, but doesn’t leave you with recharge if something unexpected switches into it, like hyper beam does. I’ll leave a poll at the bottom because I actually don’t know if this is a good idea. Any feedback is great. The rest of the move set is standard, no explanation really needed.


Golem


- Rock Slide

- Body Slam

- Earthquake

- Explosion


Golem always seemed superior to rhydon to me. That’s all down to explosion. Rhydon is good, but lacks the ability to outright kill whatever is in front of it when necessary. Maybe this is just me, but I like golem’s blinding loyalty and willingness to sacrifice for the greater good. Rock slide and earthquake is perfect coverage, and body slam might paralyze a switch-in.


Snorlax


- Body Slam

- Amnesia

- Surf

- Rest


I love amnesia snorlax. I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve gotten someone’s golem/rhydon because they thought it was a physical set. Body slam is the perfect bluff. Just fire off a few body slams until they switch into a passive Pokémon and set up an amnesia or two. Amnesia eventually makes him notoriously hard to kill, and two turns from rest is no big deal. I actually think snorlax’s special set is superior to his physical set simply because no one sees it coming, which can result in an easy KO. Always a fun set to use.


Starmie


- Thunderbolt

- Blizzard

- Thunder Wave

- Recover


Starmie has always been an awkward Pokémon to use for me. I respect its efficiency and usefulness, and I know that I can get a lot of work done with it, but it always felt dissatisfying.


For me, starmie is a multi-purpose tool. I need to spread paralysis? Starmie can handle it. Am I running out of Pokémon and I need to switch? Starmie has me covered. Getting close to the end and I need some death fodder? Starmie gladly embraces death. Maybe the reason starmie feels weird to me because it doesn’t do anything special or different. It doesn’t fill one role for me, it just helps the rest of the team with theirs.


The moveset is not a final decision. BoltBeam coverage generally does the job, but there are times I wish I had a stab option. Thunder wave and recover are absolutely necessary for starmie to do anything meaningful.



Well, there it is. normal, simple, and consistent. Any comments about the Tauros moveset are appreciated. Thanks, and may your battles go well.
 
So there's a few things in your post I'd like to clarify
But we’re not here to talk about gen 7! No, today the question I bring you is a short one, but it certainly had me puzzled. As we all know, gen 1 teams are basically all built the same way. Alakazam, Tauros, either golem or rhydon, and fill in the rest with whatever you want. Those three pokemon’s movesets are usually the same across all teams. What I want to know is this: are there any possible changes that might work even better?
This is totally not the way RBY teams are built. You're right in that 99% of them follow the same structure, but neither Alakazam nor GolDon are part of that standard. Alakazam is extremely common and is overall the best lead imo, but it's too easily walled and once it cops paralysis it a bunch of things threaten it. As for Golem and Rhydon, they're actually pretty average overall, and often overshadowed by the tier's Water and Electric types when you're building a big 4 team. Its poor special bulk, numerous weaknesses and poor speed all limit its ability to impact the game. The big 4 of RBY that are on nearly every team are Tauros, Snorlax, Exeggutor and Chansey. Tauros is obvious, Snorlax softchecks literally everything in the game while being an immensely potent wallbreaker, Chansey is a titanic wall that can be extremely difficult to break, while Egg is simply the best non-lead sleeper in the game by a looooooong margin
Let’s start with the obvious one.

Alakazam
- Psychic
- Recover
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave

Alakazam is a staple on RBY teams. There isn’t really any valid argument otherwise. Psychic is both the perfect move and the perfect type. Recover gives him something that a lot of Pokémon in RBY dream of, longevity. I personally prefer seismic toss instead of reflect, mostly for the PP. Alakazam that can’t attack loses a lot of his value, but he can at least stall a little with just seismic toss and recover. Being the fastest common Pokémon in RBY combined with thunder wave means he can almost always get paralysis off before the opponent moves, possibly granting a free turn or two.

I like him as a lead instead of a sleep user for a few reasons. First of all, putting the opponents sleep lead to sleep isn’t really all that important. Gengar still blocks explosion even when asleep, and exeggutor and Jynx aren’t top threats on their own. I’d rather save my exeggutor for later and put something more important to sleep. Alakazam is also one of the only Pokémon that can sometimes beat a common sleep lead, Gengar. A critical hit or a miss from Gengar makes an easy kill.
Lead Exeggutor shouldn't even be considered- of the four most popular leads it has only one good matchup, and when using it you have to run something else as backup sleeper which is TERRIBLE. A minor point since you're not using it, but I wanted to get that out there. Anyway, beating Gengar isn't a very remarkable trait, as Alakazam, Starmie and Jolteon all force it out (which constitutes beating it). Gengar should never be staying on a Zam lead and you shouldn't be trying for the KO either- TWave covers any potential switchin while still crippling Gengar if it's dumb enough to stay in, as it cannot block Egg's sleep and cannot stop most pokemon from spreading paralysis either as it's easily KO'd, with the notable exception of Chansey. Basically, Gengar taking paralysis negates on of its main advantages and turns it into a liability.
Exeggutor
- Sleep Powder
- Psychic
- Explosion
- Mega Drain

Exeggutor is mostly on my team because I think every team needs a sleeper, and I believe he’s the best. Despite being slower than Gengar or jynx, I like him for his bulk, and more importantly, an explosion with some pop. Gengar can explode, but his doesn’t have the power that exeggutor packs. The rest of his moves are pretty obvious. Psychic is almost perfect, mega drain catches water types or golem/rhydon for a lot of damage and a nice health boost.
I mean Mega Drain is technically viable, but it's one of Egg's worst viable options. The matchups you list aren't all that important, as GolDon are never taking on Egg, while Egg is still limited against Waters as MD doesn't make up for the fact that they can either fire off Blizzards, or they're Slowbro and can just overwhelm you with Amnesia. You're very right in that every team should have a sleeper though, as it's just too good to pass up
Tauros
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Earthquake

Here’s the strange one. I prefer double edge instead of body slam on my Tauros for the extra power.

Tauros is primarily a late-game cleaner. Body slam has a nice paralyze chance, but Tauros should be coming in very late and normally shouldn’t be dealing with very many, if any, non-paralyzed opponents. Double edge makes some hits that body slam might barely miss the KO into finishes, but doesn’t leave you with recharge if something unexpected switches into it, like hyper beam does. I’ll leave a poll at the bottom because I actually don’t know if this is a good idea. Any feedback is great. The rest of the move set is standard, no explanation really needed.
I haven't run any calcs of DE Tauros, but in general it's a very bad idea. Forgoing BSlam's paralysis chance would make sense if you could guarantee that literally every non-Normal type on the opposing team would be paralysed, which is simply not the case. Endgames tend to be very varied, but dropping that para chance could leave you dead in the water against Starmie, or prevent you from haxing opposing Zapdos (since they'll be TWaving you). That mentality also overlooks the fact that Tauros isn't just a sweeper, but also the tier's best revenge killer, and in that scenario you absolutely want BSlam paralysing. The second reason DE is bad is its recoil. Again, you'd have to run a whole bunch of damage calculations, but often Tauros will find itself trading hits with other pokemon and in that scenario, Tauros' bulk is a really valuable resource. In a 1v1 matchup it can easily negate the DE's power advantage, while in the broader picture a bit of recoil incurred in one instance might lead to something else KOing it one turn sooner later on
Snorlax
- Body Slam
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Rest

I love amnesia snorlax. I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve gotten someone’s golem/rhydon because they thought it was a physical set. Body slam is the perfect bluff. Just fire off a few body slams until they switch into a passive Pokémon and set up an amnesia or two. Amnesia eventually makes him notoriously hard to kill, and two turns from rest is no big deal. I actually think snorlax’s special set is superior to his physical set simply because no one sees it coming, which can result in an easy KO. Always a fun set to use.
I find Surf a strange option here. Your team doesn't really struggle against GolDon, and Surf's only purpose is as a lure for them. On that note, it's best used on the standard attacking set, since Amnesia already scares GolDon out, so if you want to lure them you force yourself to only use BSlam which is really restricting. Anyway, in place of Surf, I'd rather run Blizzard or Ice Beam. Blizzard offers more power and is therefore the better option imo, as that extra power is crucial in Lax dittos (which are extremely common). On the other hand, IB allows you to play for the freeze against things like unparalysed Chansey, but the lack of power really sucks when Lax enters play. In terms of coverage, Ice is always superior to Water as it hits Grass and Flying types, while still hitting everything Water does (except mono-Fire types, which are generally irrelevant)

Broadly speaking, I think your team is fine. Although I disagree with some of your sets, the pokemon themselves are good. My only issue is that the team seems really dependent on Starmie- if it's paralysed or weakened, things like Lapras can run amok. Also opposing Starmie are a problem, since obviously Star isn't really at an advantage. Lax mitigates this somewhat, but it's still a weakness. Overall I don't think the issues I mentioned in this paragraph are crippling, the team should still be viable, but it is a weakness to be mindful of. If you were looking to patch that up, Chansey would be your best bet
 

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