Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
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Game Freak to present at CEDEC 2022 about Pokemon modeling
- Thread starter Zowayix
- Start date
Another summary thread for your convenience.
Lewtwo's thread broke early on
There's definitely some interesting stuff here, though most of it doesn't do what I thought it'd talk about that being a direct talk about the issues before their new pipeline.
The primary focus is how their the new pipeline has assisted them in fleshing out the pokemon models textures and effects. Then a lot of talk about how they put them together with their tools to begin with, and the economical reuse of assets when crafting animations and skeletons.
lewtwo also has plans with this one to upload the presentation with full translation over the coming weeks. This one sounded particularly neat to see!
There's definitely some interesting stuff here, though most of it doesn't do what I thought it'd talk about that being a direct talk about the issues before their new pipeline.
The primary focus is how their the new pipeline has assisted them in fleshing out the pokemon models textures and effects. Then a lot of talk about how they put them together with their tools to begin with, and the economical reuse of assets when crafting animations and skeletons.
lewtwo also has plans with this one to upload the presentation with full translation over the coming weeks. This one sounded particularly neat to see!
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A year later, Game Freak did another presentation for CEDEC 2023 and the graphics of SV. Most of it goes into the details of individual Pokemon models like Quaxly's hair and the terastal effect, as well as the appearance of characters and the world.
This page has all the slides in Japanese. https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1525779.html
A highlight is this concept image for SV and its concept of the balance between realism and stylistic distortion.
Dirt textures can be applied as damage is taken.
This comparison seems to show what disabling the tera effect on certain body parts looks like, where the left Bellibolt's stomach looks more flat than the right.
We also get to see a debug view of SV showing light points.
There are also some names and descriptions for the eye and lip styles.
This page has all the slides in Japanese. https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1525779.html
A highlight is this concept image for SV and its concept of the balance between realism and stylistic distortion.
Dirt textures can be applied as damage is taken.
This comparison seems to show what disabling the tera effect on certain body parts looks like, where the left Bellibolt's stomach looks more flat than the right.
We also get to see a debug view of SV showing light points.
There are also some names and descriptions for the eye and lip styles.
this is insane because their reason was super reasonable and made a lot of senseThat was the running rumor when Dexit was first announced. That GF had broken the importing tool so they couldn't automatically/systematically import the Gen 6 models and had to import each by hand - leading to the culling. Whether this rumor was started beacuse people desperately needed to find some reasonable explanation for why Dexit was implemented is unknown, but I find it unlikely that GF employees are actively spreading rumors like thatas most of their information leaks come when they give data miners everything but the kitchen sink every new game.
It's certainly a logical possibility however. I don't know who actually does the importing as we don't really know a whole lot about the relationship between GF and Creatures Inc (other than that Creatures basically got bought out by Nintendo and GF wasn't too happy about that). But, the model imports are functionally identical to the Gen 6 ones, except for some new cells in the polygon mesh in a few of the Gen 6 models. Some changes were linked back to LGPE changes, but that could be a case of convergent modeling evolution rather than them actually using the few updated LGPE models.
I doubt GF is ever going actually to spill the beans on their potato programing skills, as there's nothing to be gained from making themselves look worse than they already do. But, it will be interesting to see what new excuses they come up with
also most "errors" people point out in Game Freak's code from when you posted this (pre SV, a game that basically had no polishing period due to time constraints), are super fucking petty and almost never actually errors
unless you mean like Gen 1 or something which was probably the largest scope for a Gameboy game ever (only to be outdone by Gen 2), coded in assembly by a small staff
Holy necro Batman
Pokemon's Dexit explanation really only makes sense if GF was a small indie company company trying to create a large and expansive game. Doesn't really hold any water when you're the largest media franchise on the planet. Granted "chuck more money at it" is not a solution for many problems. However, GF has a staff of ~170-200 (and GF has two development teams at any given time). Most gaming companies producing at or near GF's cadence have double or triple the staff. It should be painfully obvious to anyone who knows how companies operate that the real reason for Dexit was "we don't want to pay someone to do this beacuse we don't think it'll earn us more money and not doing it will save us money." Nothing else matters, it's always about the money. No one should be surprised by this.
As for glitches and bugs, while yes, Pokemon fans are notoriously picky, labeling most bugs as meaningless is disingenuous. The Pokemon franchise is definitely error prone - there's a lot of complex system and interactions and GF does not put a lot of effort into fixing many of the problems that crop up beacuse again, money. Here's a range of notable bugs that never got fixed in games prior to SV:
- Gen 6/7 Pokemon memory crashes - people found a way to add junk data to Pokemon to a mon's name to cause your 3DS to crash. Never got fixed, for both games the GTS' are almost unusable as they'll just crash your device now every time you hit one of those mons.
- In Gen 7, the Contest Memory Ribbon (or is it Battle Memory, I get them flipped in regards to this problem sometimes lol) for Pokemon that have contest ribbons from before Gen 5 is glitched so it shows the incorrect ribbon. If you have fewer ribbons then the max, you get the ribbon for max contest ribbons.
- In SwSh, Curry Cloning never got patched out. You can glitch the game with some Pokemon while in the camp to receive a wild "caught" version of a Pokemon you already have. GF stomps many cloning glitches out like they're going to open a portal to Tartarus but this pretty easy to perform glitch is still in the game.
- In XY, if you fight in a sky battle the opposing trainer will glitch and can't be interacted with after you leave the fight. You will need to reload the trainer in order for them to start talking again.
If there's any moral to this story it's that no one should tie themselves to any company. Understanding, even learning from them is a great idea. But, they're a company. They don't care about you, or me, or anyone else. Being critical of their decisions is just as important as appreciating their work.
none of these bugs are more than nitpicks and other companies like activision constantly leave old games buggy, the GTS one being the most crucial but also frankly irrelevant, with a new GTS and oh no, they aren't patching a 3DS game !!!!!Holy necro Batman
Pokemon's Dexit explanation really only makes sense if GF was a small indie company company trying to create a large and expansive game. Doesn't really hold any water when you're the largest media franchise on the planet. Granted "chuck more money at it" is not a solution for many problems. However, GF has a staff of ~170-200 (and GF has two development teams at any given time). Most gaming companies producing at or near GF's cadence have double or triple the staff. It should be painfully obvious to anyone who knows how companies operate that the real reason for Dexit was "we don't want to pay someone to do this beacuse we don't think it'll earn us more money and not doing it will save us money." Nothing else matters, it's always about the money. No one should be surprised by this.
As for glitches and bugs, while yes, Pokemon fans are notoriously picky, labeling most bugs as meaningless is disingenuous. The Pokemon franchise is definitely error prone - there's a lot of complex system and interactions and GF does not put a lot of effort into fixing many of the problems that crop up beacuse again, money. Here's a range of notable bugs that never got fixed in games prior to SV:
Those are just a range of glitches to illustrate the variance in problems that never get fixed. Sometimes GF will fix the problems - lots of game breaking bugs have made it into Pokemon games only to be patched out in the subsequent months after release. Other times they just don't bother, it's not worth the time. Occasionally they're ILCA making BDSP and manage to add so many glitches it derails TPC's release plans. Regardless, Pokemon games have always been relatively glitchy - if perhaps sometimes on par with a lot of other similar franchises in terms of their glitches. Bulbapedia has done a relatively good job documenting a lot of the glitches in Pokemon games, would recommend checking this out since there are far too many for me explain.
- Gen 6/7 Pokemon memory crashes - people found a way to add junk data to Pokemon to a mon's name to cause your 3DS to crash. Never got fixed, for both games the GTS' are almost unusable as they'll just crash your device now every time you hit one of those mons.
- In Gen 7, the Contest Memory Ribbon (or is it Battle Memory, I get them flipped in regards to this problem sometimes lol) for Pokemon that have contest ribbons from before Gen 5 is glitched so it shows the incorrect ribbon. If you have fewer ribbons then the max, you get the ribbon for max contest ribbons.
- In SwSh, Curry Cloning never got patched out. You can glitch the game with some Pokemon while in the camp to receive a wild "caught" version of a Pokemon you already have. GF stomps many cloning glitches out like they're going to open a portal to Tartarus but this pretty easy to perform glitch is still in the game.
- In XY, if you fight in a sky battle the opposing trainer will glitch and can't be interacted with after you leave the fight. You will need to reload the trainer in order for them to start talking again.
If there's any moral to this story it's that no one should tie themselves to any company. Understanding, even learning from them is a great idea. But, they're a company. They don't care about you, or me, or anyone else. Being critical of their decisions is just as important as appreciating their work.
you can't play call of duty pc games online without risking being entirely hacked
none of the things you listed show any lack of proficiency in coding lmao. like you're just so silly
there's a difference between "attaching yourself to a company" and having the knowledge of game development and coding to know that your criticisms make you look very silly
their reason for Dexit made a lot of sense (time constraints) and no, Game Freak's staff count is not that low for a fucking Xbox 360 graphical level system
speaking of, it's actually not nearly as bad as you made it out to be, shocker, almost like Pokemon fans are often very unknowledgeable about what they are talking about
Sword and Shield had 800 contractors and Creatured Inc. generally works on the models, internally Sword and Shield had 200 core developers at Game Freak solely focused on making Sword and Shield. But I'm sure you know better because r/pokemon or something told you.
the moral of the story is that companies don't care about you and the developers of your games work way harder than the people telling them to make an entire Open World JRPG in 2.75 years on a very strict cycle. Not that they are bad at coding or that Dexit is out of just sheer incompetence.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Why do you feel the need to throw in these snide little ad hominems? It's seriously unpleasant