DPP Baton Pass

[dice]

is manicuring old gens to make them more enjoyable a detriment though?

a lot of the stigma surrounding old gens tiering is that we should let old dogs lie, right? we tend to operate under the assumption that we shouldn't revise these gens, given they are 'said and done', so to speak.

with metagame development comes new resources used and discovered, and metagames are constantly cycling and evolving. the current iteration of dpp that is played today is drastically different from when it was the modern gen. this is to say that we shouldn't treat dpp tiering with any more scrutiny or pause than current generation tiering.

that being said, i don't believe a certain strategy needs to be "dominant" if it is proven to strip player autonomy and create formulaic matchups wherein your win or loss is out of your hands. we don't need strict usage criterion to nerf a strategy which has proven to eliminate interaction and crapshoot matchups.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

You raise some valid ideas, dice. Here’s my thoughts on what you’ve said.

Manicuring the game of old gens is an acceptable practice to keep it balanced and promote continued play in the official tours—in extreme circumstances. This has to follow an outlined process, though. Potential problems have to be nominated and reviewed with a system in place. Sure, we can mostly agree that BP is unenjoyable to play against. It can become a slippery slope to take these actions without strict criteria. What’s beneficial for the metagame is a subjective exercise and leaving those decisions entirely up to 5 people leaves the potential for dissent at a minimum.

Usage is important when factoring in dominance. The notion that you are stripped of your autonomy in team building to Gliscor Pass is almost entirely a theoretical limitation. If you face it one game per year, unless you’re only playing one event, that’s nearly a non-factor whatsoever. If instead, the strategy is likely to be seen multiple times every tour, this increases the level of action to moderate. The only open and shut case in my opinion is that of a strategy where the likelihood of facing it is near or above 50% across a given tour. Anything less than that, especially much less than that, should receive much more discourse and greater scrutiny when nominated for removal.

 

[Philip7086]

After much deliberation, and after reading all of the posts made in this thread, the DPP Old Gen Council has determined that the following ban will take effect immediately:

• Baton Pass cannot be used in conjunction with a boost in speed + another stat (this will be blocked in the team builder to prevent confusion during battle).
• No team can contain more than one Pokémon with Baton Pass.

We are implementing this ban because certain Baton Pass strategies have proven to be uncompetitive and detrimental to the metagame, requiring unreasonable team building measures to counter or prepare for. Without one of the very few countermeasures, teams are left with no chance to outplay and come out victorious.

When making this decision, the following was considered:

• The dominance of Baton Pass teams in recent official tournaments.
  • Many top players have refused to use this strategy for years out of an unspoken "honor system," however, every time someone has brought it in DPP Cup and WCOP, it has come out victorious. This strongly supports the notion that full Baton Pass strategies require unreasonable team building measures to counter or prepare for.
    • This had gone somewhat unnoticed by most, due to hiding replays in DPP Cup.
  • Waiting for all top players to adopt this strategy and spam it in official tournaments to prove a point would sacrifice the integrity of said tournaments, when we already know full well how uncompetitive and broken it is.
• The fact that, when used to raw pass, purely pass speed, or pass another stat without speed, Baton Pass offers much needed variety and room for creativity within the tier, without being overpowered.
  • Such variety and opportunity for creativity has been determined to be preferential to a "simpler" ruleset (i.e. banning Baton Pass outright).

Marty - Please implement this new rule change to the team builder for DPP at your earliest convenience. Note that this is the same execution as the BW Baton Pass ban.

Marty edit: Main and SmogTours are now patched