DP Togekiss

[Bologo]

Ok, so I know that there is a Peer Edit for an Encore Togekiss, but it is very old, and wasn't written all that well. That, and the Encore set that I am proposing works differently than the Encore set that was proposed back in April, which did not make it to the SCMS, so I am assuming it's okay to post this one.

I assure you, that this is not just an "other options" set. I have been testing this set out for a couple of weeks on my most recent team, and it works wonders with Wish on it. Anyways, let's move onto the set:

[SET]
name: Encore Supporter
move 1: Encore
move 2: Wish / Roost
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Aura Sphere / Thunder Wave / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss' ability to support the team is amplified when it has the moves Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a setup or support move and Encore it, likely forcing a switch. While Togekiss is out it can also Encore faster Pokemon such as a Swords Dancing Garchomp, which requires lots of prediction but can have huge payoffs. These situations allow Togekiss to assist the team by setting up Wish and then proceeding to pass it to a counter for the current opposing Pokemon while not having to worry about being taken out. If one chooses not to Wish, it's possible to simply abuse the free turn to paralyze an incoming Pokemon with either Body Slam or Thunder Wave. It can also allow one of your sweepers to come in unharmed, set up, and cause havoc for your opponent. Roost is an option over Wish if none of Togekiss' teammates are Rapid Spinners, as Stealth Rock damage can really pile up on it. However, Roost greatly cuts down on Togekiss' ability to support the team, meaning that Wish is preferable for this particular set.</p>

<p>Air Slash and Aura Sphere allow for a neutral hit on every single Pokemon, barring Zapdos and Rotom. Air Slash, a powerful STAB attack, can also help Togekiss to keep some Wish recovery for itself due to the 60% flinch chance on slower Pokemon. Aura Sphere is not a requirement though as this Togekiss is not meant to sweep, reducing the need for type coverage. Body Slam or Thunder Wave can take its spot to paralyze incoming Pokemon, as mentioned earlier. The choice depends on whether the team has more of a problem with speedy Ghosts such as Gengar, or Grounds such as Garchomp.</p>

<p>The EV spread on this set is a lot speedier compared to a majority of Togekiss' sets. A quick Togekiss allows for much easier Encoring, which is why so many Speed EVs are required. 236 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Togekiss to have 280 Speed, outspeeding an Adamant Lucario. This lets Togekiss come in on the unsuspecting Lucario as it Swords Dances, and leaves it Encored. It will then be forced to switch, or be 2HKOed with either of Togekiss' attacks. 252 HP EVs and 20 Defense EVs allow for its maximum defensive capabilities after reaching 280 Speed. This lets it come in and perform its strategy several times, due to its high survivability.</p>

---

Yeah, I triple-checked my spelling and grammar and such, but there might still be errors, so please check that. If you guys have any ways that I can improve the set, then feel free to post them. Please don't relegate this set to other options, because it works way too well to be stuck in there. I didn't include Roost over Wish, because the switches that Encore forces work so well with Wish, since this Togekiss is supposed to be a team player. If you guys can convince me though, I will consider putting Roost as an option over Wish.

Thanks in advance for the peer editing and extra testing.

EDIT: Some changes made.

EDIT 2: Added to SCMS.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

body slam/twave option over aura sphere. air slash still 2hko's lucario iirc but twave/bs supports team more so in terms of paralyze etc etc

 

[gengod]

I would still include Roost as an option over Wish, possibly as the main option even if it doesn't count as team support. With Encore this Togekiss will probaly be switching in and out a lot which means it will have to deal with switching into attacks as well as Stealth Rock, which could really pile on the damage. What makes it worse is that your opponent will most likely be switching in something that will force Togekiss out which means it's unlikely that you will ever be able to take advantage of your own Wish.

If you do still however feel adamant about keeping Wish on the set you may want to think of adding Protect over one of your attacks, most likely Aura Sphere. You will lose considerable type coverage, but Protect works well with Wish giving you psuedo recovery as well as recovery for the team and also works well with Encore in scouting your opponents moves.

 

[Cooper]

I'd rewrite the first paragraph if I were you. The explanations of what Encore and Wish do aren't necessary in my opinion.

 

[junior]

[SET]
name: Encore Supporter
move 1: Encore
move 2: Wish
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Aura Sphere / Thunderwave / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss's ability to support the team is amplified when it has the moves Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a setup or support move, and to Encore it, and forcing your opponent to repeat a move, as well as possibly switching out. While Togekiss is out, it can also Encore faster Pokemon, which requires lots of prediction, but can have huge payoffs, for example, Encoring a Garchomp in the middle of its Swords Dance. These situations allows Togekiss to easily assist the team by setting up Wish without worrying about being taken out, and proceed to pass it to a counter to the current opposing Pokemon.

Repetition makes it sound bad so I changed it a bit!

If one chooses not to Wish, and to simply abuse the free turn paralyze an incoming Pokemon or to allow one of your sweeper to come in unharmed, set up and cause havoc for your opponent.</p>

<p>Air Slash and Aura Sphere allow for a neutral hit on every single Pokemon, barring Zapdos and Rotom. Air Slash can also help Togekiss to keep some Wish recovery for itself, due to the 60% flinch chance on slower Pokemon, while still being a powerful STAB attack.</p>

I would start a new paragraph here as the topic being addressed changed from Wishpassing to actually attacking.

Also, I think Thunderwave and Body Slam should be mentioned so I changed the innitial paragraph in the above quote to suit the would-be new set (if you add it of course).

<p>The EV spread on this set is a lot speedier compared to a majority of Togekiss' sets. A quick Togekiss allows for much easier Encoring, which is why so many Speed EVs are required. 236 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Togekiss to have 280 Speed, which outspeeds an Adamant Lucario. This lets you come in on the unsuspecting Lucario as it Swords Dances, and leaves it Encored, meaning it must switch, or be 2HKOed by Aura Sphere. 252 HP EVs and 20 Defense EVs allow for its maximum defensive capabilities after reaching 280 Speed, which lets it come in and perform its strategy several times, due to its high survivability.</p>

Too long of sentences, leading to too much usage of conjunction words, which makes it sound very bad, like for example, this sentence, which could easily be broken into about 2-3!

I suggest redoing the last two sentences for that reason

EDIT: @cooper: I don't think there's anything wrong with mention on how to combine Wish with Encore.

 

[Bologo]

Alright, I took some of the suggestions and implemented them.

I put Roost as an option over Wish, but not as the main option. Encore and Wish go together like soap and water, and it's too hard to make Roost the main option, considering that Air Slash can act as a psuedo-Protect 60% of the time on slower Pokemon.

I implemented MoP's suggestions with Thunder Wave/Body Slam as options over Aura Sphere.

Thanks for the time saver Junior. I implemented your suggestions, with any changes in spelling and grammar that were needed. I fixed up the new paragraph that I added, and I broke up the last couple of sentences on the last paragraph.

Thanks everyone.

 

[tennisace]

Posting to say I've used this on a few teams, with different EVs, and it works really good. I think I used 252 hp/252 SpD/4 Spe to make it a special tank/Wish supporter.

 

[Invective]

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss' ability to support the team is amplified when it has the moves Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a setup or support move, and to Encore it, forcing your opponent to repeat a move, as well as likely forcing a switch. While Togekiss is out, it can also Encore faster Pokemon, which requires lots of prediction, but can have huge payoffs, for example, Encoring a Garchomp in the middle of its Swords Dance. These situations allow (don't need the "s") Togekiss to easily assist the team by setting up Wish without worrying about being taken out, and proceed to pass it to a counter for the current opposing Pokemon. If one chooses not to Wish, it's possible to simply abuse the free turn to paralyze an incoming Pokemon with Body Slam or Thunder Wave. It can also allow one of your sweepers to come in unharmed, set up, and cause havoc for your opponent. Roost is a possibility over Wish if none of Togekiss' teammates are spinners, as Stealth Rock damage can really pile up on it due to a weakness to the move. However, Roost greatly cuts down on Togekiss' support to the team, meaning that Wish is preferable for this particular set.</p>

Since "situations" was pluralized, you dont need to pluralize "allows", because "allows" is used only when the subject is singular.
The part about "passing to a counter to the current Pokemon" is confusing, so i exchanged the second "to" with a "for".

 

[Bologo]

Since "situations" was pluralized, you dont need to pluralize "allows", because "allows" is used only when the subject is singular.
The part about "passing to a counter to the current Pokemon" is confusing, so i exchanged the second "to" with a "for".

Fixed.

EDIT: I'm putting this up on the SCMS by the end of the day, so please contibute any other comments by then. All corrections of this set will be made on the SCMS after that.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

You're really only going to wait one day before putting it up? Even if the set is valid that seems kind of impetuous.

Anyways, the analysis has the content but it also has way too many commas. I was trying to read it to myself with all of the punctuation and I missed an entire showing of Titanic because of how many awkward pauses there are.

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss' ability to support the team is amplified when it has the moves Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a setup or support move and Encore it, likely forcing a switch. While Togekiss is out it can also Encore faster Pokemon such as a Swords Dancing Garchomp, which requires lots of prediction but can have huge payoffs. These situations allow Togekiss to assist the team by setting up Wish and then proceeding to pass it to a counter for the current opposing Pokemon while not having to worry about being taken out. If one chooses not to Wish, it's possible to simply abuse the free turn to paralyze an incoming Pokemon with either Body Slam or Thunder Wave. It can also allow one of your sweepers to come in unharmed, set up, and cause havoc for your opponent. Roost is an option over Wish if none of Togekiss' teammates are Rapid Spinners, as Stealth Rock damage can really pile up on it. However, Roost greatly cuts down on Togekiss' ability to support the team, meaning that Wish is preferable for this particular set.</p>

<p>Air Slash and Aura Sphere allow for a neutral hit on every single Pokemon, barring Zapdos and Rotom. Air Slash, a powerful STAB attack, can also help Togekiss to keep some Wish recovery for itself due to the 60% flinch chance on slower Pokemon. Aura Sphere is not a requirement though as this Togekiss is not meant to sweep, reducing the need for type coverage. Body Slam or Thunder Wave can take its spot to paralyze incoming Pokemon, as mentioned earlier. The choice depends on whether the team has more of a problem with speedy Ghosts such as Gengar, or Grounds such as Garchomp.</p>

<p>The EV spread on this set is a lot speedier compared to a majority of Togekiss' sets. A quick Togekiss allows for much easier Encoring, which is why so many Speed EVs are required. 236 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Togekiss to have 280 Speed, outspeeding an Adamant Lucario. This lets Togekiss come in on the unsuspecting Lucario as it Swords Dances, and leaves it Encored. It will then be forced to switch, or be 2HKOed with either of Togekiss' attacks. 252 HP EVs and 20 Defense EVs allow for its maximum defensive capabilities after reaching 280 Speed. This lets it come in and perform its strategy several times, due to its high survivability.</p>

The bold edits are wording changes that I feel are appropriate to cut down on how clunky the analysis reads. I made a lot more edits in the first few sentences especially but I didnt bold them since they were just commas and random unnecessary words that I deleted. This one that I'm posting is all your content but with fewer commas and some slight word changes and I feel it is better overall because of readability issues.

The explanations of why each move is there and what every little nuance of the set does is spot on, this is a really well written guide.

 

[maddog]

It might be a good idea to add an Encore+ Baton Pass set as well, because I always have alot of success with it. It is a different set though, so maybe I'll just write my own peer edit for it sometime, if you think the other one wasn't of reasonable quality (because I think the peer edit you are referring to was a Encore+ Baton Pass set). The set that you posted looks solid though

 

[Bologo]

jrrrrrrr, I'm only putting it up at the end of the day today because it received so few comments on the first full day it was up. No point in wasting time if it can be put on the SCMS in a short amount of time anyway, because most of the good suggestions about the actual moveset have been put in. I also like giving a deadline for all comments in all of my peer edits, because it gets comments faster, and I like working on one peer edit at a time, which makes the deadlines a lot more useful. I'll edit in some of your suggestions. Thanks for the compliment about the analysis. :]

maddog, you should probably post your own peer edit. I've never tested a Encore + Baton Passing Togekiss before, so I wouldn't be able to write a very good analysis on how to use it.

Thanks guys.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

<p>Togekiss' ability to support the team is amplified when it has the moves Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a setup or support move and Encore it, likely forcing a switch. While Togekiss is out it can also Encore faster Pokemon such as a Swords DancingGarchomp, which requires lots of prediction but can have huge payoffs. These situations allow Togekiss to assist the team by setting up Wish, and then proceeding to pass it to a counter for the current opposing Pokemon while not having to worry about being taken out. If one chooses not to Wish, it's possible to simply abuse the free turn to paralyze an incoming Pokemon with either Body Slam or Thunder Wave. It can also allow one of your sweepers to come in unharmed, set up, and cause havoc for your opponent. Roost is an option over Wish if none of Togekiss' teammates are Rapid Spinners, as Stealth Rock damage can really pile up on it. However, Roost greatly cuts down on Togekiss' ability to support the team, meaning that Wish is preferable for this particular set.</p>

Just two more tiny nitpicks:

1) You need a space between "Dancing" and "Garchomp"
2) take out the comma between "Wish" and "and"

It looks ready to me once you've taken care of those two minor issues.

 

[Bologo]

Alright, awesome, those are now fixed jrrrrrrr. This has been put onto the SCMS and is awaiting a cache. Any other corrections should be done there.

Thanks again everyone. :]

 

[Hekatoncheir]

"Note that it's impossible for Body Slam and Nasty Plot to be used on the same set, as Body Slam must be obtained from a third generation move tutor, while Nasty Plot is a fourth generation egg move."

Just wondering, why isn't Secret Power a viable option? I know it has 15BP less than Body Slam but it's mostly used for the 60% paralysis effect and since it's a TM so it works with Nasty Plot. Unless shoddy isn't using Building by default, I don't see why it's not listed.

 

[umbarsc]

Mainly because this set doesn't use Nasty Plot and Body Slam is perfectly legal.

 

[Hekatoncheir]

Mainly because this set doesn't use Nasty Plot and Body Slam is perfectly legal.

Flinch

~ Body Slam / Thunder Wave
~ Air Slash
~ Roost
~ Aura Sphere / Nasty Plot / Substitute


They're both on the same set.

 

[matty]

Flinch

~ Body Slam / Thunder Wave
~ Air Slash
~ Roost
~ Aura Sphere / Nasty Plot / Substitute


They're both on the same set.

That would be a bit more appropriate for a total analysis, but I agree, Secret Power probably wouldn't be a bad suggestion. I may re-do the set comments for that after your suggestion and looking at the analysis itself.

P.S. This might be considered necro bumping.... Just be careful and conscious when posting in this suggetion forum

 

[Bologo]

Uhhh, this isn't even that set, so why in the world are you posting that in here?

And just for the record, THIS kind of thing is the reason that I made my title descriptive so that others could see what the specific set is from the thread title. I don't know who changed it from "DP Encore Supporter Togekiss" to "DP Togekiss", but in the future, that should not be happening.

I mean, I've looked at the thread titles for all of my peer edits, and now for some reason they're no longer descriptive, even though I was just going off of this quote to make it easier for people:

Well no, he was right to post his own. If he posted this in the other thread, it would be offtopic. The problem is that the thread title is non-descriptive.

Yeah, this was posted in this peer edit, and I've made my titles descriptive ever since. I'm not one to try and argue with a mod when they change thread titles, but a descriptive title (if it's not a total revamp) is a good idea, and there's no reason it should be changed, especially if it can prevent things like that unnecessary bump in this thread...