Could pokemon become an eSport

With the popularity of various eSports leagues like hearthstone rocket league and ogerwatch that can payout a good amount of money i wonder if pokemon could ever become an eSport. Im sure its something theyd be interested in as it could generate even more sales for the main series games. I wonder how it would opperate. Id guess a draft league format that we've seen before would work but would becoming an eSport diminish the overall gameplay of pokemon or better it? Thoughts?
 
The problem is that games like Rocket League are insanely easy to understand even if you've never touched a game controller in your life. Car soccer, I mean that's a pretty intuitive concept. Pokémon though?... even long-time players need certain concepts explained to them sometimes, which says nothing about how non-gamers will view it. I don't think the mass appeal is there.
 

Champion Leon

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The problem is that games like Rocket League are insanely easy to understand even if you've never touched a game controller in your life. Car soccer, I mean that's a pretty intuitive concept. Pokémon though?... even long-time players need certain concepts explained to them sometimes, which says nothing about how non-gamers will view it. I don't think the mass appeal is there.
Pokémon Go, record sales for Sun/Moon, geared towards kids and adults (demonstrates the simplicity of picking up the concepts), I think the market, sales, and lore are more than enough to make it work, they just have to Branch out. Like maybe connect multiple versions of battles, like the tcg allows for evolution mid battle, but the main series games allow for abilities, Natures, z-moves, Poken tournament allows for special attacks and calling upon allies, etc.

Once they pick the best of each gameplay, they can put something that is worthy of an e-sport.
 
Pokemon battles are too slow for me to watch as an exciting esport competition !
To be a better Esport, you need to reduce the thinking time to 10 seconds maybe to be more dynamic and add a strategic part by being able to analyze Movesets/IV/EV/Nature before the battle starts
 
Technically, it already is.

Now, if what you are asking is if Pokemon can be an eSport on the levels of MOBAs... forget it. Turn-based games have always struggled in terms of popularity and "watchability", for the lack of a better word.

Just look at chess.
 
What about Pokken? Wasn't it up to vote to be in a major eSport event?
while Pokken will not see the main stage at Evo 2017 Evo will support Pokkén Tournament events in 2017 with $10,000 in pot bonuses, so it's getting popular

once again, are we disscussing whether it is a eSport or whether it is a popular eSport? what it takes for an eSport to be "popular"?
I think this tread sould be about what does pokemon need to do to become a popular eSport


because Dota and League of Legends are both "popular" eSports and like all MOBAs are really boring to watch, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Pikachu315111

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once again, are we disscussing whether it is a eSport or whether it is a popular eSport? what it takes for an eSport to be "popular"?
I think this tread sould be about what does pokemon need to do to become a popular eSport?

because Dota and League of Legends are both "popular" eSports and like all MOBAs are really boring to watch, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My experience with eSports is nil to none, but taking what I've heard about Super Smash Bros players (I think SSB is an eSport) I can see a small problem with the main series Pokemon games being considered an eSport.

Professional players like consistency and predictability. They want to know that when a move/power/skill/spell/whatever is activated how much damage it'll do and/or what effect it'll cause. There can be a tiny bit of randomness as seen with Hearthstone, but even then players can accurately predict how a result will play out.

And that's where the main series Pokemon games (and even the Stadium games/Colosseum games/Revolution) get stuck. The main Pokemon series battling mechanic relies HEAVILY on randomness. Moves with imperfect accuracy (especially with certain powerful moves), moves with secondary effects that have a 10/20/30% chance to activate, Critical Hits, Abilities that also have a % chance of activating, Items that also may or may not activate, etc.. Any of those moves or effects hitting/activating or not can dramatically change how the battle progresses. Simply put, even if you build a solid team there's no guarantees it'll always work as you intend it to do and if you're unlucky no amount of planning may help you. You didn't lose because your team wasn't good, you lost because your opponent got a lucky Crit/afflicted a 10% chance status ailment/their Ability or Item decided to activate that turn. I'd imagine it would be frustrating especially with a lot of money on the line.

"Well at least it would be exciting to watch". Would it? Because though I'm making it sound like you never know what may happen, for a good chunk of the battles they'd probably go as planned. Battles could go for dozen of turns and maybe only for one or two turns would something unlikely happen that may change the game around. But otherwise you're mostly just watching monster take turns slapping each other until one faints (well, after the first few turns they spend just setting up entry hazard, barriers, stat boosts, & maybe weather). Granted, they may get a show with Mega Evolution or Z-Moves but that's just a moment of showmanship.

If main series Pokemon battling were to be made to a widely supported eSport they'd probably have to create a simplified version which is more consistent and predictable, which kind of goes against a nature of a Pokemon battling being something where the tables can turn so drastically.

It's why I brought up Pokken. Of any of the Pokemon properties, Pokken is consistent and predictable with its mechanics and if you lose its because the other player was just better at countering your Pokemon.
 
My experience with eSports is nil to none, but taking what I've heard about Super Smash Bros players (I think SSB is an eSport) I can see a small problem with the main series Pokemon games being considered an eSport.

Professional players like consistency and predictability. They want to know that when a move/power/skill/spell/whatever is activated how much damage it'll do and/or what effect it'll cause. There can be a tiny bit of randomness as seen with Hearthstone, but even then players can accurately predict how a result will play out.

And that's where the main series Pokemon games (and even the Stadium games/Colosseum games/Revolution) get stuck. The main Pokemon series battling mechanic relies HEAVILY on randomness. Moves with imperfect accuracy (especially with certain powerful moves), moves with secondary effects that have a 10/20/30% chance to activate, Critical Hits, Abilities that also have a % chance of activating, Items that also may or may not activate, etc.. Any of those moves or effects hitting/activating or not can dramatically change how the battle progresses. Simply put, even if you build a solid team there's no guarantees it'll always work as you intend it to do and if you're unlucky no amount of planning may help you. You didn't lose because your team wasn't good, you lost because your opponent got a lucky Crit/afflicted a 10% chance status ailment/their Ability or Item decided to activate that turn. I'd imagine it would be frustrating especially with a lot of money on the line.

"Well at least it would be exciting to watch". Would it? Because though I'm making it sound like you never know what may happen, for a good chunk of the battles they'd probably go as planned. Battles could go for dozen of turns and maybe only for one or two turns would something unlikely happen that may change the game around. But otherwise you're mostly just watching monster take turns slapping each other until one faints (well, after the first few turns they spend just setting up entry hazard, barriers, stat boosts, & maybe weather). Granted, they may get a show with Mega Evolution or Z-Moves but that's just a moment of showmanship.

If main series Pokemon battling were to be made to a widely supported eSport they'd probably have to create a simplified version which is more consistent and predictable, which kind of goes against a nature of a Pokemon battling being something where the tables can turn so drastically.

It's why I brought up Pokken. Of any of the Pokemon properties, Pokken is consistent and predictable with its mechanics and if you lose its because the other player was just better at countering your Pokemon.
Well in games of League of Legends and Dota a critical hit at just the right time can turn the team fight, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't and it's very much like pokemon in that way; so while you'll see players complaining about "hax" it has never affected an eSport popularity, and as you said whenever something random that drastically affects a match happens the cowds love it (or hate it if it happens in favor of an unpopular team, but the point is that it gives them emotional highs an thus helps with getting the audience invested)

I think that it's necessary to actually compare and contrast between Pokemon's eSport offerings and more popular eSports matches
in interest of that here's a channel that specializes on Dota matches, one that chronicles Evo matches and to compare a channel that archives VGC matches
I invite everyone to watch some matches (or more likely have them play in the background) whenever you got time
 
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In addition to what Pikachu315111 said, I would like to posit that Pokemon has always been designed with the single-player experience at the forefront. It doesn't take much to see that multiplayer, while barrels of fun, isn't exactly a balanced metagame, in either singles or doubles formats. And that's not a problem ordinarily, as many VGC tournaments can attest to, but unless Gamefreak suddenly shift their priorities to a balanced multiplayer, I can't see it becoming a successful e-Sport.
 
In addition to what Pikachu315111 said, I would like to posit that Pokemon has always been designed with the single-player experience at the forefront. It doesn't take much to see that multiplayer, while barrels of fun, isn't exactly a balanced metagame, in either singles or doubles formats.
......

I'm gonna assume you don't play doubles because that's just wrong
not only is the in game experience not balanced, but doubles is far far more balanced than singles, a fact that's a direct consequence of Gamefreak spending the last three generation actively trying to balance the VGCs (and consequentialy ignoring singles thus leaving it's metagame the mess that it is right now)
 
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I'm gonna assume you don't play doubles because that's just wrong
not only is the in game experience not balanced, but doubles is far far more balanced than singles, a fact that's a direct consequence of Gamefreak spending the last three generation actively trying to balance the VGCs (and consequentialy ignoring singles thus leaving it's metagame the mess that it is right now)
Yup, 99% of Game Freak's balance focus goes to doubles. Just a look here in Smogon tells us the higher focus on balanced, just by counting how many things are banned in Doubles OU compared to Singles OU (significantly less), and how many of them are allowed in VGC (Gravity+inaccurate sleep and Eevium Z are the only ones, taking VGC '17 as a reference).
 

Deleted User 400951

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Yup, 99% of Game Freak's balance focus goes to doubles. Just a look here in Smogon tells us the higher focus on balanced, just by counting how many things are banned in Doubles OU compared to Singles OU (significantly less), and how many of them are allowed in VGC (Gravity+inaccurate sleep and Eevium Z are the only ones, taking VGC '17 as a reference).
This in particular bugs me. I mean, honestly, look at Battle Spot. It's an official format yet it's pretty damn unbalanced I believe. Why are they so neglectful of Singles if they have an official format for it?
 
This in particular bugs me. I mean, honestly, look at Battle Spot. It's an official format yet it's pretty damn unbalanced I believe. Why are they so neglectful of Singles if they have an official format for it?
Cause Battle Spot it's not televized streamed through official channels
 
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For the record, I do play doubles, though not to an extensive degree, and I was implying that to become a successful Esport, GameFreak would have to shift its focus from single player. I can't think of a single Esport right now where the main campaign is the priority of the developer.
 
Between the last 2 generations, I think gamefreak has been trying significantly harder to improve Pokemon as an esport. They've tweaked a significant number of battle mechanics (the way specific abilities function, the base power of a large number of moves, and the stats of a large number of Pokemon), made previously tedious processes such as getting perfect IV Pokemon and EV training much easier, and gave Mega Evolutions and Alola forms to seemingly random Pokemon, rather than new Pokemon present in that generation. Many of these things have almost never happened before Gen 6 and if they did, it was nowhere to the same extent.

Ultimately, I think gamefreak's balancing attempts are more directed towards Battle Spot Singles and Doubles rather than standard 6v6, since the former are much faster paced. This makes certain changes less / more impactful in these formats than 6v6, (i.e. Weather abilities lasting for less turns is less impactful due to battles in these formats being much shorter) which I feel was the intended effect gamefreak wanted when making a lot of these changes
 
I would imagine that the main reason for which they stick to VGC tournament for their official tournaments is that the actual 6v6 scenario often can become very stally. Expecially 1v1s which are in many situation a chainswap situation, in the moment where you got access to the entire 6 pokes it can be... quite boring, to watch.
Even the addition of Z-moves which provide several pokes 1hko potential which they did not have before shows they dislike stally metagames.

2v2 is more dynamic, punishes stalling hard, features way more interesting mindgames with protect, allows also several strategies that are relatively unviable in singles (weather/TR/abilities tailored for doubles for example) and more creative team comps as well.
I personally also do prefer the VGC format to simple 6v6 for doubles though, since it adds *extra* mindgames on "did the opponent bring this poke or he didn't?".

Both the above also are important when you consider that in order for a "e-sport" to be successful, it doesn't only need to be fun to play, but also fun to watch. Noone really fancyes watching someone swapping pokes for 15 turns in a row right?


As for "pokemon as e-sport" success, I think one of the issues is that despite Pokemon having one one of the biggest fanbases worldwide, it's definitely not as scenic as other *actual* e-sports: matches are like chess battles, there's no flashy plays to watch, no impressive team work, no explosions (well sort of), etc. It's doomed to attract less watchers than something like a CSGO or League would, simply because it's less entertaining to watch, unless you are really into the whole competitive pokemon battling.
I don't think the game itself has the potential to become remotely as successful stream/public-wise without a complete redesign of the battle system, which is something we don't want, obviously.
 
I think we're being a little too harsh with the definition of an eSport. As others had mentioned, it basically already is an eSport because of VGC, but I will get more to my definition of an eSport later. Altissimo had mentioned that the game in question has to be easily understood to be a (perhaps successful) eSport. However, I don't really agree with that sentiment because I have seen stuff like League of Legends and CS:GO on TV and I don't understand really anything about those games yet I find CS:GO to still be somewhat entertaining to watch. (sidenote: I still can't believe video games are being shown on TV lol wut)

Now I believe an eSport can be pretty much anything as long as it is "watchable" as others have also mentioned, but in today's world this pretty much includes every video game imaginable. I mean, take a look at how many people watch games being played on Twitch or even how fervently people follow tournaments on Smogon/PS. Now I agree Pokemon and other turn-based games can have a watchability problem, but I wouldn't think it would be that extreme. Worldie mentioned that pokemon has no flashy plays but I think there are exciting moments even if they aren't obvious to the non-pokemon player. Critical hits, unique or niche strategies being unleashed or even double switching to change momentum can be exciting for the pokemon fan watching. I know the goal is to garner as many viewers as possible (i.e. expand the brand), but again I go back to my example of CS:GO and League of Legends. I know nothing about those games but can still grasp the occasional exciting moment, especially based on how the crowd, competing players, announcers, etc react. Announcers, more than others, can play a large role in these events, helping unknowledgeable viewers learn the basics of the game, at the very least, so they could explain pivotal moments in the match, key concepts, strategies, etc, so I don't believe watchability would be that large a problem.

In conclusion, I think Rapti said it best; this is less a question of is Pokemon an eSport? and more of is / how can Pokemon be a popular eSport? With so many games having a large following on Twitch, Pokemon's large Smogon/PS following, and official VGC events already taking place, it definitely is an eSport. Chess has a following and sanctioned championship events with prize money, which I think is the most direct connection to Pokemon / other turn-based games having possible success as an eSport
 
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The problem is that games like Rocket League are insanely easy to understand even if you've never touched a game controller in your life. Car soccer, I mean that's a pretty intuitive concept. Pokémon though?... even long-time players need certain concepts explained to them sometimes, which says nothing about how non-gamers will view it. I don't think the mass appeal is there.
I know this was posted a while ago, however I do highly disagree with this argument. Esports don't exactly have to be easy to understand, and League of Legends is a great example of this. As someone who only plays league super casually, it was very hard to pick up and learn everything at first. I still don't understand certain strategies that high-level players use. League is definitely something that requires a bit of prior experience to understand, and Pokemon is just the same, which is fine in my opinion.
 

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