Cottonee (QC 2/3)

[athleteandy1]

I feel Knock Off is better left to other Pokes. Cottonee has a lot of slashes, and I don't think Knock Off is worth one. Also, Substitute is really not good. In LC, subs are made of like 6 HP. Anything that hits neutrally can do 6 damage. Remove Substitute and put it in OO, or at least make it not the primary slash.

Dazzling Gleam should be the third slash by itself, and Stun Spore and Taunt should share the last slot. If it doesn't have an attack, it can be set up on by Shed Skin Scraggy (the only good Scraggy IMO) and Dratini (I just really like Dratini). Dazzling Gleam amends that. Order of the last two moves is better left to another, but Stun Spore and Taunt do mostly the same thing: harming set-up sweepers.

 

[SevenSins]

I feel Knock Off is better left to other Pokes. Cottonee has a lot of slashes, and I don't think Knock Off is worth one. Also, Substitute is really not good. In LC, subs are made of like 6 HP. Anything that hits neutrally can do 6 damage. Remove Substitute and put it in OO, or at least make it not the primary slash.

Dazzling Gleam should be the third slash by itself, and Stun Spore and Taunt should share the last slot. If it doesn't have an attack, it can be set up on by Shed Skin Scraggy (the only good Scraggy IMO) and Dratini (I just really like Dratini). Dazzling Gleam amends that. Order of the last two moves is better left to another, but Stun Spore and Taunt do mostly the same thing: harming set-up sweepers.

The set I have there is of Ray Jay and Goddess Briyella's requirement. I have no obligation to change it unless they agree.

 

[dcae]

i agree with athleteandy1 100% in terms of letting Dazzling Gleam be a move by itself. Not only can it be set up bait for some shit, but currently that set dies to any Grass type, Taunt users tear it to shreds, etc etc. Despite its relative lack of power, having a move is vital. I would never run the first set because of the fact that it crumbles in front of shit.

Needs to be emphasized that if Leech Seed isn't being run, Substitute shouldn't be run either.

Apart from that it's cool.

 

[SevenSins]

How does that look dcae athleteandy1 Ray Jay Goddess Briyella

 

[dcae]

looks good!

 

[Wobbyble]

I think you should still include a special attacking set that focuses primarily on offensive moves :)

 

[Expulso]

chloro sweeper rofl

 

[SevenSins]

I think you should still include a special attacking set that focuses primarily on offensive moves :)

Please tell me that's a joke Wobb lol
37 Special Attack? Come on.

 

[Darkamber8828]

isnt this you

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-78420173

anyway i agree that offensive cottonee wrecks, it's probably better with all the fighting types around, STAB dazzling gleam is amazing now that people aren't overcompensating for swirl (you can encore fake out on mienfoo / meditite to avoid the poison jab / bullet punch

 

[SevenSins]

isnt this you

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-78420173

anyway i agree that offensive cottonee wrecks, it's probably better with all the fighting types around, STAB dazzling gleam is amazing now that people aren't overcompensating for swirl (you can encore fake out on mienfoo / meditite to avoid the poison jab / bullet punch

That isn't me, that's Ssin, another voice.
I really don't think an offensive Cottonee set is necessary. It's true potential lies in its support move pool.

 

[Wobbyble]

No, I am dead serious. Special attacking Cottonee is the only one I consistently use. Running 17 speed and 13 SpA allows you to actually pose a threat to all fighting types, Pawniard, BJ Murkrow, etc. It gives you a lot of important OHKO/2HKOs that you would normally not get, and 3 attacks + Encore provides a healthy mix of utility and offense as it still allows you to force out set ups, dissuade moves like Recover etc while threatening most of the offensive metagame. 17 speed is very important because it lets you outspeed Pawniard and Meditite, two of the largest offensive threats in the game, and offensive Cottonee threatens them both.

I would not say special attacking is Cottonee's definitive "best set" or anything", but saying that it's "not necessary" is flat out false. Include it or not, offensively based Cottonee is far more than viable. There are a lot of weird things that work if you're willing to try them.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Ah, my bad.

Offensive Cottonee still has priority Encore and Stun Spore (unless you run Memento but I don't like Memento :|), which are really the only essentials, especially since STAB Giga Drain gives you health.

 

[SevenSins]

All right. I'll add your suggestions in a bit, when I have time.

 

[Expulso]

Maybe talk about how incredible Memento is late-game, if there's only 1 Pokemon left on their team?

 

[macle]

no fletch mentions?

 

[SevenSins]

Darkamber8828 , Wobbyble
I added an offensive Cottonee set. If there are any other significant moves that should be included, or if there are slashes that need to be moved around, let me know.

macle
Added Fletch in Counters as well as Teammate Suggestions

 

[Wobbyble]

YAHHHH looks good man, slash in HP Fight because fuck pawn

 

[SevenSins]

Got it

 

[Darkamber8828]

Move 4: Knock Off / Cotton Guard / Memento / HP fighting

What does Cotton Guard do? You get a +3 defense boost and do...what, exactly? Cottonee isn't a sweeper, it's a pivot. You get to +3 and then you switch out.

IMO the last slot should be Stun Spore / Memento / Knock Off, with HP Fighting in AC (or whatever it's called). Stun Spore is much more powerful than Knock Off for crippling things that switch to remove Encore, and it gets Prankster priority. which lets it emergency revenge any non-Grass non-Electric sweeper. Memento is Memento. Knock Off is useful for crippling walls that don't mind Thunder Wave (especially Ferro / Foongus), but you have to rely on priority Encore for revenging, which REALLY sucks. HP Fighting lures Pawniard, but it doesn't KO Eviolite Pawniard (and the vast majority of Pawniard, it seems to me, are Eviolite). I guess DG + HP Fighting KO's Pawniard, but...like you said, not having that second support move really does suck.

Also, can you explain what Substitute does on the Sunny Day set, which does not have Leech Seed?

Also the Sunny Day set is a lot more niche than the offensive set and should probably be put last.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Pretty good analysis I think grassewhistle should be in oo as the accuracy is one of the worst in the game however a sleep move is a sleep move and cottonee doesn't get sleep powder (right?)

 

[Rowan]

okay, finally getting round to this

OVERVIEW
-mention it's a great switch in to fighting-types and also set-up sweepers thanks to prio encore - this is cottonee's best niche imo.

UTILITY
MOVES
-mention taunt also stop opposing taunt which is very good for cottonee
-remove mention of hp fighting, that should only go in the offensive set

USAGE TIPS
-switch in and encore set up sweepers - this is really imporatnt. tirtouga, scraggy are good examples and also mention some cool things it can wall like carvanha, fighters etc... and can switch into and encore resisted moves

TEAM OPTIONS
-remove tangela and yanma mentions lol... still talk about things that can beat grass types though
-something to switch into steel types, particularly mag who it can't paralyse
-eevee and honedge aren't the most relevant, say something like 'slower offensive pokemon such as meditite or honedge'

SUNNY DAY
-why is substitute even useful here? it doesn't have leech seed to work with on this set. i'd say something like sunny day, memento, stun spore, encore/taunt should be the way to go. deffo move sunny day to the top slash though as that's obviously the focus of the set. change set name to 'Sunny Day Support'

MOVES
i know they serve same purpose as last set, but just say what they are anyway

USAGe TIPS
-eject button isn't a 'necessity', it just helps. change the phrasing to say this

SPECIALLY OFFENSIVE
-the set seems just wrong to me...
-change it to Wobbyble's set here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cottonee-qc-1-3.3496147/#post-5175590
-but switch the slashes of stun spore and memento - stun spore first slash.

SET DETAILS
-timid outspeeds pawniard, this is very important for HP fight, stress this

USAGE TIPS
-basically similar to set 1, talk about beating set up sweepers, fighting types, carvanha etc...
-memento is for low health, not full health lol

TEAM OPTIONS
-think of some frail set up sweepers who like memento
-think of some mons that like pawniard gone.. shellder or misdreavus for example

OTHER OPTIONS
-cotton guard
-TAILWIND TAILWIND TAILWIND... works like a last ditch move, like memento does
-hp fire for ferro and other grass

CHECKS AND COUNTERS
-move grass types to the top of the list, particularly grass/poison dual types and ferroseed.
-just remove goomy, since dazzling gleam just wrecks it... keep deerling and blitzle i guess though, even though they're not too relevant.
-vullaby is immune to stun spore and has super-effective STAB
-steel typse particularly magnemite who doesn't care about stun spore. super effective STAB

2/3 after these changes

 

[SevenSins]

Corkscrew
Changes Implemented

 

[macle]

Grass types such as Foongus (and other grass/poison types), and Ferroseed can switch in undisturbed and Cottonee can only taunt them

- change taunt to encore

3/3

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I've reassigned this and the new writer has made a new thread for it, so I'll be locking this one.