CAP 23 CAP 23 - Part 12 - Flavor Ability Discussion

[Deck Knight]

The playtest period will be starting soon, and now we need to finalize the last flavor details for Pajantom. Bear in mind the chief paramaters of this discussion should be good flavor for Pajantom and minimal or no competitive effect.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Flavor Ability banlist:
Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Fairy Aura
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
Protean
Pure Power
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Slow Start
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Arena Trap
Beast Boost
Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Triage

<Plus any ability we deem to be competitive on a Pokemon at any stage of discussions. This may include abilities such as the -Ate abilities, Type Immunity abilities (such as Volt/Water Absorb, Dry Skin) or Power Boosting abilities (such as Sheer Force, Tough Claws)>

If you are curious as to why these abilities are banned, check out this thread to learn more. Remember, the ability we choose here is an Ineffective Ability, meaning that it should be inferior to Comatose on Pajantom.

This means that abilities posted that have notable competitive merit will not be tolerated. All logic should be flavor-based and even if an ability has a flavor match, it should not be posted or supported if the competitive inclinations of the ability are too strong. Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted and repeated offenses risk further punishment.

While this is not a competitive thread, do make posts with solid flavor explanations. snake_rattler and LucarioOfLegends will be making a slate at the end of the thread.

 

[Reviloja753]

So I think it’s fair to say that the baby dragon isn’t sleeping when it doesn’t have Comatose. As such, I would like to propose Cute Charm. I personally think that saying a baby is cute isn’t too much of a stretch, even if it’s a dragon. Look at that thing’s face! No Ability is another option, as Komala (the only regular Comatose mon) does not have any other ability.

 

[Panic Station]

Definitely think stat boosting abilities should not be touched here, especially the speed boosters. Part of our balance was setting our speed tier as a static value and speed boosting abilities, even though conditional, undo that work.

In terms of flavor potential and not outshining Comatose, the ability that comes to my mind is Unnerve. Big menacing dream ghost up in your business and all you can do about it is... not eat berries. Seems like it fits both requirements for a flavor ability.

Cute Charm is a good fit for flavor, but the results are annoying enough that someone might consider it a good way to mess up an opponent's strategy.

 

[Deck Knight]

Before we get too deep in, I'd like to note that as Rest was a mandated move that abilities that would enable Rest (all except two others) are not considered a competitive element and are therefore not disallowed on that basis alone.

Obviously if they bring something else competitive related in some facet that's a matter for review.

In that line of thinking, I'd still like to propose Vital Spirit. Yes, I know the pun only works in English, but the Japanese have their puns, we anglophiles can have them too :) And yes, ir means Pajantom still couldn't use Rest but at least it won't take double damage from Hex >_>.

 

[Falchion]

If we aren't looking at Comatose exclusively, a possibility I have in mind would be Cursed Body. It makes thematic sense, considering that it's keeping its dreams inside its body when it's awake, although I'm not sure as to whether the disabling effect on other Pokemon's moves is of significant consequence or not. Alternatively, I propose Stall, which Sableye gets; this fits the fact that the little dragon is a sleepy creature which won't be aware of the fact that the other participants in a fight have made their moves until much later.

If neither of those work, I agree with Reviloja753 in that no ability works fine, since Komala gets Comatose and Comatose only.

EDIT: Cursed Body is off the table, apparently. I'm sticking with my other suggestions, though.

 

[snake]

I'm really not a fan of either Cursed Body or Cute Charm. Our Steel-type counters are very reliant on hitting us with contact-based Steel-type attacks. While Celesteela and Ferrothorn are able to use Leech Seed, we disallowed Disable during Moveset Discussion because our counters need to hit Pajanatom with their Steel-type attacks. Cursed Body mimics Disable, and Cute Charm can screw with Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor (Celesteela is Genderless). These have "competitive" implications, even if they are based on random chance. I'm not necessarily against a flavor ability that allows the use of Rest, but I don't want to add a flavor ability that enables Pajantom to mess with counters that well. I also don't buy a question like "Why ever use Cursed Body over Comatose??" because we really just shouldn't give Pajantom the option, even if it's super suboptimal, to screw with checks.

 

[Reviloja753]

I'm really not a fan of either Cursed Body or Cute Charm. Our Steel-type counters are very reliant on hitting us with contact-based Steel-type attacks. While Celesteela and Ferrothorn are able to use Leech Seed, we disallowed Disable during Moveset Discussion because our counters need to hit Pajanatom with their Steel-type attacks. Cursed Body mimics Disable, and Cute Charm can screw with Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor (Celesteela is Genderless). These have "competitive" implications, even if they are based on random chance. I'm not necessarily against a flavor ability that allows the use of Rest, but I don't want to add a flavor ability that enables Pajantom to mess with counters that well. I also don't buy a question like "Why ever use Cursed Body over Comatose??" because we really just shouldn't give Pajantom the option, even if it's super suboptimal, to screw with checks.

While I agree with Cursed Body being a bad idea, Cute Charm is something I don’t get what the issue is. See, we still gave Pajantom Attract. If Attract would have been a problem, it likely would have been banned. However, it wasn’t. That means a set of Shackle/Attract/Earthquake/Ice Punch could exist. It takes up a moveslot, yes. However, it is still more reliable in handling Scizor and Ferro than Cute Charm. It could simply trap than use Attract and then beat them with enough uses of EQ or a different coverage move that I’m forgetting. Another thing is that MScizor has and constantly uses U-Turn, meaning it isn’t even super weak to that set or indeed a Cute Charm set anyway. Cute Charm is also a somewhat low chance, whereas Attract ignores accuracy and always work with the opposing gender. All in all, Cute Charm would be inferior to an Attract Comatose set, so it isn’t even a problem competitively.

 

[Mova]

I'd go with either No Hidden Ability or Vital Spirit. The latter has an English pun that doesn't work in Japanese, but Durant gets Truant from the Dream World, so wynaut? It's still somewhat useful, but it's outclassed by Comatose for the most part.

 

[Sereg]

Okay, the first option I suggest is White Smoke. The dream looks smoky and insubstantial and is there to protect the little dragon, after all.

The next I suggest is Friend Guard as this pokemon is inherently a member of a team that works together.

Based on the above two choices, I also suggest Aroma Veil.

 

[Okamu]

While I do greatly appreciate the pun of Vital Spirit, I think it's a bit weird to have an ability that prevents sleep on a mon that's literally in pajamas... I'd personally like to propose Oblivious and Symbiosis. For the former, Pajantom's main body is literally asleep, so it would naturally be unable to make notice of attempts to attract it, and also it's just a little kiddo, who shouldn't be exposed to such impure things yet. Since Infatuation is practically never seen in competitive the ability is a pretty safe bet for inferiority. For the latter, Oranguru broke the exclusivity on it, and since it only works in Doubles, it is inferior to Comatose in singles. As for the flavor, the little body and the big body are already working together, so it's sort of like symbiosis.

 

[Reiga]

Since Comatose is a constant state of being and the whole thing that unifies its design together (i mean idk, idk who designed it), I feel like No Hidden Ability would be my foto pick.

If we are to pick an ability though, might I chime in something? Forewarn sounds bizarre at first, but its Japanese name is "Prothetic Dream", and in its small userbase there's notably two other sleep-based Pokemon; Hypno and Musharna, meaning it fits quite well with Pajantom's whole theme.

 

[Sereg]

I agree with Okamu, and I actually considered Forewarn myself, so I support it.

 

[FriesforNapkins]

Vital Spirit or Insomnia seem a little clunky to me since Pajantom is the complete pokemon of the little guy dreaming up the bigger guy as he's sleepin'.

How about something like Symbiosis for the above reason? Or something like Telepathy to go with the mind-reading theme? I'm aboard the Forewarn train as well, Friend Guard too.

EDIT: I really need to pay better attention when reading, I agree with Okamu.

 

[KeeganSkymin4444]

No Hidden Ability is my go-to here, it just makes the most sense flavor-wise that it doesn't have anything but Comatose. If we decide on it having another ability, I'd go with FriesforNapkins and say Telepathy is the best bet, as the large dragon could be keeping the small dragon away from the dangers of the ally's moves. If it weren't exclusive and currently unavailable, I could see Long Reach working for pretty much the same reason.

 

[Hackedzed]

Okamu has the right idea with Forewarn and I thought maybe also cute charm but I don't think that would work super well for what I've seen. But I'm kinda also surprised nobody has thought of Aftermath yet. Pokemon that come to mind when you say that are Pokemon like: Drifblim, Skuntank, and even Garbodor. All three of these Pokemon have the "big Pokemon" look to them. Not necessarily huge but still they look pretty large and/or plump. The game text also says "damages the attacker with a finishing hit" which kinda shows in the design on how it's tiny but dreams up a huge monster to fight for it. This giant monster wouldn't want to upset it's master so it might come out trying to make a finishing blow last second. That's at least what I thought might work.

 

[Okamu]

Hackedzed Just an fyi, Reigaheres is the one who suggested Forewarn. Though I do like it as well for flavor. My only issues are that first, it's currently only held by Psychic types, and second, I'm unsure where giving the ability to use Rest + scout for certain moves falls on the usefulness spectrum, though I'm inclined to agree with a 'very low.' As for other abilities, I only really question Aftermath and Aroma Veil. The first is just because it's associated with explosion (All pokemon with Aftermath learn it and also the Japanese name is 'Induced Explosion'). The second because it's moreso associated with smell than a gas (See Aromatisse line's design).

 

[snake]

Limber is an ability I find pretty flavorful on Pajantom, and it's definitely inferior to Comatose since Limber blocks only paralysis, while Comatose blocks all status. Obviously, a wispy dream cognition is pretty flexible, so the flavor is there too.

 

[FriesforNapkins]

As an improvement on Aroma Veil,(since Stench is probably too problematic) maybe Damp or Overcoat would be nice for similar, textural reasons? Damp because of Deck Knight's movepool justifications on Ice type moves and Haze giving Pajantom a cold theming, and it getting Whirlpool; I visualize this as the consistency of the nightmare part of Pajantom being made up of a colder fog-like substance, and Overcoat to describe Pajan's shadow body as well. The latter gives us a Spore immunity too, which seems like the perfect balance between underwhelming and not-useless to me. I also like White Smoke for these reasons.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I'm personally really liking Forewarn, Telepathy, and Vital Spirit myself. I like the idea behind Forewarn because it Japanese flavor, and it makes sense in a way since deja-vu dreams are also a thing and can be considered a warning of the future. Telepathy makes a slight reference to Pajantom's ever-so-slightly Psychic typing, and I think fits decently well with it. Vital Spirit is a bloody hilarious pun and poor Rest would be completely thrown under the bus :( Not sure about the others though.

 

[Deck Knight]

Personally I really like Symbiosis as one of those doubles flavor abilities we tend to give to CAP mons. It's such a strange one too, but considering how weird item transfer is, but it fits beautifully otherwise.

I like it much more than Forewarn and Telepathy, simply because those abilities are much more generic and broadly distributed, and CAP really is symbiotic in nature.

I'd be comfortable with that or Vital Spirit, the sort of "lesser" status abilities don't appeal to me, though if I had to pick one it would be Water Veil because the Dreamgon acts like a waterbed >_>

 

[earl]

I'd like to second my support for Unnerve, it both fits the design of the dragon itself and ends itself to the "Nightmare" theme. Otherwise, No Ability is the way to go in my opinion as comatose tends to be an ability that defines the 'mon (with both the baby and Komala constantly snoozing means there really shouldn't be any other, non-sleep based ability).

 

[SkirataNightShade]

So, I’m gonna preface this suggestion by saying I know this ability is on the banned list, but Bad Dreams would be a huge flavor-win to me, and considering Pajantom has literally no way of inflicting sleep, the most application it would have competitively is alongside another Pokémon that could induce sleep. Or against mons that use Rest/Comatose. Totally understand not being allowed, but just had to put that one out there.

For a more serious suggestion, Friend Guard looks to be one of those flavorful, doubles-only type of abilities that does do anything of note for the competitive side, outside of allowing Rest to be used. I also like Pressure for the whole intimidating dream monster feel

 

[Professor Mesquite]

It has the small possibility of becoming useful in play, but I think having Rattled as it’s hidden ability would be quite interesting- it fits with the Nightmare theme, and it’s a bit creepy too.

 

[Reviloja753]

It has the small possibility of becoming useful in play, but I think having Rattled as it’s hidden ability would be quite interesting- it fits with the Nightmare theme, and it’s a bit creepy too.

That ability was discussed in the competitive stages. The major problem with Rattled is that we made Pajantom to have a static speed stat. Rattled, even if situational (which it isn't even that situational), messes with our checks and counters too much. I understand where you're coming from in terms of flavor, but it's too good to be a flavor ability. Sorry D:

 

[Lil' Mike]

I'm not sure if this pokemon should even have any flavor abilities. After all, if he didn't have comatose, than that would realistically mean that some versions of this pokemon are asleep and others aren't, which makes no sense. That's why Komala doesn't have any other abilities.