CaP 20 Prevos - Part 1 - Typing Discussion

[Swede]

I just don't really like Water/Normal, and I'm especially not crazy about Water/Grass.

Seconding these notions. A Normal typing almost always suggests a field-like background for a Pokemon, evident in beavers, lions, and many, many birds. Unless we want Naviathan starting out on land and ending up fully integrated with a water theme (which is basically the opposite of an evolution process iirc), I'm not a fan.

Grass Pokemon have roots (heh) in forests, woodlands, etc. Naviathan doesn't really seem to have evolved from any of these backgrounds. Ludicolo makes sense since it's associated with a swamp, but Naviathan is definitely not a wetlands creature.

 

[acidphoenix]

Also, keep in mind that every Steel-type that has a pre-evo with a different type is Mono-it's other type, except Scyther->Scizor. It doesn't mean that this is a precedent that we need to follow, but I can't see it having a woodland background, or being part Normal.

Also when talking about wood being grass-type, keep in mind Sudowoodo or however you spell it.

 

[WeatherEffectRain]

Also when talking about wood being grass-type, keep in mind Sudowoodo or however you spell it.

Sudowoodo is petrified wood, it isn't actual wood. I like Water/Grass as a typing, because it does allow for the wooden boat thing. Also Pyroak has wooden armor so it has a little precedence for representing grass.

My only problem with Water/Grass is that I don't think we'd be allowed many or any grass moves by level up. If Water/Grass isn't good I'd go for Water/Flying because of the Flying moves, like Quanyails said.

 

[Dogfish44]

I don't like the idea of adding a type. Mono-Water or Water/Steel both sound perfectly solid (Maybe Water --> Water/Steel --> Naviathan as to not completely mimic Empoleon).

 

[sparktrain]

The Water/Flying proposition seems like an interesting option; it could help add some additional flavor reasoning for the Flying-type moves such as Peck, Drill Peck, and Gust in Naviathan's movepool, and there are several creative routes we could go with in the design. Could Naviathan have once had a beak before its more draconic final stage?

Otherwise, I'd be cool with sticking with Water/Steel throughout its evolution path. That, or Water -> Water/Steel -> Water/Steel; pure Water certainly makes sense for one or both of the pre-evolutions, but I'd rather not mirror the Empoleon line entirely, although that's just a personal preference. Other suggestions such as Water/Rock and Water/Grass are certainly intriguing, but Naviathan just doesn't have the movepool to back them up. This isn't to say we can't do these typings, but it's a lot harder to justify, say, a Grass typing when it learns no Grass-type moves. Flying makes the most sense to me if a typing was to be changed.

 

[EpicUmbreon29]

What if we were to make the types for Naviathan's prevos Water/Dragon?

I feel like this type isn't too far-fetched, considering Naviathan is a huge reptile that learns Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Dragon Pulse, and Dragon Breath. Additionally, Dragon types are very frequently part of three-stage evolutionary family (although this would be the only case in which a Pokemon loses Dragon typing after evolution).

 

[The Avalanches]

What if we were to make the types for Naviathan's prevos Water/Dragon?

Not a fan, honestly. Although it learns a bunch of Dragon-type moves, the same can be said of a surprising amount of Pokemon with monstrous and draconic appearances without them necessarily having the typing. Archen, Steelix, Landorus, Arcanine, and Rhydon, off the top of my head are some examples of Pokemon that have access to at least one Dragon attack without having the typing.

I also don't like the idea of Dragon transitioning to Steel upon evolution, as it's not like Naviathan is really going to look less draconic than its pre-evolutions.

 

[Iron Caliber]

I think Water -> Water/Flying -> Water/Steel would be pretty cool to see, since Naviathan has a lot of thematic Flying-type moves and the progression of types evokes the process of constructing a warship.

What if Naviathan's oar-like protrusions used to be wings at an earlier part of its lifespan? Over time, as Naviathan's heavy steel armor grew in, it would lose flight in exchange for having superior nautical mobility. Premature Naviathan could have also had sails or a more aerodynamic appearance instead of outright flight. Concept-wise, there's a lot to screw around with, I think.

 

[Scipio323]

If we really, really want to add a third typing to the evolution chain, Flying is the ONLY one I can imagine working, mostly because of the movepool. However, I would have to see a really compelling concept before I voted for it to understand why it would lose its wing/sails as it grows in power, which feels pretty counterintuitive to me. Also, similar to how EpicUmbreon pointed out that no current pokemon loses a Dragon type upon evolution, there is just one pokemon (Scyther) that loses its Flying type upon (non-Mega) evolution, and that's very much tied in to the manner of its evolution (puts on a Metal Coat, and it's suddenly too heavy to fly.) So unless we have a really good design for a Flying type prevo that makes logical sense as to why it would give up its wings/sails, I'm still firmly in the camp of Water or Water/Steel.

Edit: I just wanted to add that to be perfectly honest, ever since I saw Naviathan's art in the submissions thread, I always thought it would have been just that much cooler if it DID have wings that formed a mainsail, and would even make more sense that way, as viking ships were generally sailing ships. If that were the case, I would also be very excited about the idea of having a sort of light schooner or yacht as a prevo that was Water/Flying, and it could even evolve, like Scyther, via Metal Coat. But sadly, Naviathan doesn't have wings (as they would look too draconic for a non-Dragon type,) and for that reason I just can't see it's prevo having them.

 

[Rowan]

I like water/steel all the way through.

looking at its movepool, it learns metal claw at level 11. at level 11, pre-evo would pretty much definitely be at it's earliest stage, and move re-learners are usually just level 0. Therefore it probably has some way to use metal claw in its first stage, so why wouldn't we go with water steel?

There is precedent with Drilbur + Prinplup getting metal claw at level 15/16, but Drilbur's claws are a big part of its design, it's a mon where lots of its attacks come from the idea of slashing/clawing stuff. It also gets stuff like X-scissor and shadow claw. I guess prinplup is enough evidence to say we can let Naviathan pre-evo get Metal Claw.

Naviathan's claws aren't that claw-like so the only way it can use metal claw is because it's a steel type. Design wise, how are we gonna make a non-steel pokemon be able to use metal claw with a similar style claw to naviathan's? It also gets iron tail by egg move. Again, the tail isn't exactly prominent or big, so I can't see the pre-evo being able to use iron tail unless we made it part steel, or made its tail longer than naviathan's

As for other non-steel mons evolving into steel types, riolu and nosepass get no steel moves.
Scyther only gets steel wing (literally every mon with wings gets it).
Onix gets iron tail+gyro ball. Onix is basically a massive tail so that makes sense, and gyro ball is often given out to slow mons. 2 moves that lots of non-steels get.
Pineco gets iron defense (extremely common on lots of mons with high defense stats) and gyro ball (again, extremely common on slowmons.)
drilbur gets metal claw, iron defense, and metal sound, so this is probably the only example of a something that evolves into steel types getting a few steel moves. I've explained the claw stuff, iron defense+metal sound are a bit weird I admit.

Also water-> water/steel has been done before and there is no first stage mon which is water/steel so it'd be cool to have something a bit more unique (though that's just my opinion).

 

[DHR-107]

Hi All,

Sorry for the large delay on this, work is being a pain and I am in the middle of moving house. Not a lot of discussion really here to give me a good idea on typings, and I really hate changing the secondary type for no reason. I will however be slating Water/Flying for both of the prevos along with Water as a sole typing.

I'll get these two polls up asap now and we can knuckle down and hopefully get this really started.