Couldn't you do +3 spatk to simulate stakeout in addition to a quiver dance boost?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources
- Thread starter E4 Flint
- Start date
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
boosts dont work like that. the numbers would be close, but there are some small factors in the calculations that change. id do the math here, but tbh, i dont really get it myself....but heres a good example of what happens:
+3 0 Atk Pikachu Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 166-196 (25.8 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 0 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 199-235 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 68% chance to 3HKO
That's because +3 is a ×2.5 bonus while +1 plus stakeout or light ball or whatever is a ×3 bonus, i.e. the equivalent of a +4 boost. So if you calculate with +4 you should be fine.
Sorry I mean x4, but if you're right Lcass4919 then I guess it doesn't matter. Thanks to both of you btw.
Its really important to point out that the Stakeout set looks to be very prediction based. For example, if the opponent has both Chansey and Giratina on the team, you're locked into a 50/50 on hitting them on the switch (or you could click Sludge Wave to ensure you do diddly squat to both of them.) I'm confident there's other defensive cores that keep things from being so clear cut on what move to use.
Or they just slow pivot like everyone else and don't give a crap about Stakeout.
Either way, I feel there should be more evidence here other than calcs to show its worthiness for being mentioned. If we only use calcs for viability/roles, we'll have friggin' Simple Shell Smash Power Trip Umbreon in A+ as a sweeper in no time.
Or they just slow pivot like everyone else and don't give a crap about Stakeout.
Either way, I feel there should be more evidence here other than calcs to show its worthiness for being mentioned. If we only use calcs for viability/roles, we'll have friggin' Simple Shell Smash Power Trip Umbreon in A+ as a sweeper in no time.
It's that time of the month again. What is it you ask? Why, the new Sample Team Submissions Time! I am going to set aside the last couple days of every month for people to submit their sample teams for me and the other Central staff to look over and add to the sample team vault in the main bh ladder thread! I would like it to be done in a proper format like below. I want to keep it short and sweet.
I will do one as a quick example and for my own submission as well.
Twin Sunbursts -- (get it, cause it has two Rays xd)
Link: http://pokepast.es/f42aa9499f4494a6
Desc:Deal maximum damage by confusing opponents with different Rays that provide complementary coverage. Ground mAttack for AV sol, audino checks the Tinted Ray's Imposter.
Link to experience (You would have to provide proof of this such as notable replays and ladder rank screenshots)
If you don't provide any of the above, I won't look at it.
In addition, the community can provide any feedback they wish on the teams supporting or even asking questions about the teams and ways they could be improved. For example, I received feedback that the Solgaleo in that team can run a different ev spread to get past MagPull Groudon.
Submissions will end for the month on the first day of the next month. So you have 2 days to submit. I will make the decision to add within a week, so that is enough time to discuss.
Also feel free to continue discussion about the VR or anything. I am going to begin updating the VR around the end of every month too according to feedback we see here as well as metagame shifts.
- Name of Team (if any, non explicit and if you don't give one, I will)
- Picture of team from showdown profiling the team
- <link to team using pastebin, pokepast or w/e you wish that won't expire>(Pokepaste is nice because you can store all this information on there too)
- Short summary of what the team is about (max 2 sentences) including special notes or reasoning for things on the team.
- Experience on the ladder with supporting replays, etc to support why your team should be added
I will do one as a quick example and for my own submission as well.
Twin Sunbursts -- (get it, cause it has two Rays xd)
Link: http://pokepast.es/f42aa9499f4494a6
Desc:Deal maximum damage by confusing opponents with different Rays that provide complementary coverage. Ground mAttack for AV sol, audino checks the Tinted Ray's Imposter.
Link to experience (You would have to provide proof of this such as notable replays and ladder rank screenshots)
If you don't provide any of the above, I won't look at it.
In addition, the community can provide any feedback they wish on the teams supporting or even asking questions about the teams and ways they could be improved. For example, I received feedback that the Solgaleo in that team can run a different ev spread to get past MagPull Groudon.
Submissions will end for the month on the first day of the next month. So you have 2 days to submit. I will make the decision to add within a week, so that is enough time to discuss.
Also feel free to continue discussion about the VR or anything. I am going to begin updating the VR around the end of every month too according to feedback we see here as well as metagame shifts.
Last edited:
Thanks for this Flint! I'll try my best to start us off.
Sand Volt-Turn
(geez sorry for the grainy image quality)
Link: https://pastebin.com/RJ1DEcBN
Desc: Wear the opponents team down with Sand damage + Hazards to eventually clean up late game with the two choiced mons; Specs Hoopa's great dual STAB's and Tinted Lens Primal Groudon's fast powerful attacks. Gyara imposter proofs Hoopa-U and FC Giratina imposter proofs Primal Groudon. Despite not getting the SpD boost from sand like Regirock, Mega Steelix has a much better defensive typing and for the most part ends up lasting longer throughout the battle. Solgaleo is a pretty standard regenvester with great ways of supporting the team.
Experience:
BH Open R1 match vs. Haund: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-559469642
BH Open R2 match vs. Zugubu Royale: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-565946336
High ladder play (warning long match): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-569242434
I never really tried laddering with this team with the intent to hit a certain spot on the ladder but it has worked very well for me and I'd be very enthused if you guys considered it. Thanks!
(guys LMK if you'd like more replays btw)
Sand Volt-Turn
Link: https://pastebin.com/RJ1DEcBN
Desc: Wear the opponents team down with Sand damage + Hazards to eventually clean up late game with the two choiced mons; Specs Hoopa's great dual STAB's and Tinted Lens Primal Groudon's fast powerful attacks. Gyara imposter proofs Hoopa-U and FC Giratina imposter proofs Primal Groudon. Despite not getting the SpD boost from sand like Regirock, Mega Steelix has a much better defensive typing and for the most part ends up lasting longer throughout the battle. Solgaleo is a pretty standard regenvester with great ways of supporting the team.
Experience:
BH Open R1 match vs. Haund: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-559469642
BH Open R2 match vs. Zugubu Royale: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-565946336
High ladder play (warning long match): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-569242434
I never really tried laddering with this team with the intent to hit a certain spot on the ladder but it has worked very well for me and I'd be very enthused if you guys considered it. Thanks!
(guys LMK if you'd like more replays btw)
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
I am aware that my 'Primal Cancer' (dubbed by our glorious leader E4 Flint) team has been added to sample sets vault previously, but I am just submitting another one to make a relay followed by Smogon Genie.
MMY and Her Magnet
Importable:
https://pastebin.com/QjBs5rTC
Description:
Choice Specs + Psychic Surge MMY hits ridiculously hard, and it will Volt Switch against Steel-types, letting Magnet Pull Pdon take care of what happens next. Normalize Gengar with Sub-Seed is very underestimated stallbreaker, and the rest 3 of party are Fur Coat Giratina to Imposterproof Pdon, Magic Bounce Mega Audino to keep Impostered Giratina from messing around, and Prankster Registeel that checks my own MMY.
Ladder performance:
Trust me normally I am way higher in ladder, I was having a bad time lately. It is your choice to believe it or not but I peaked 1790.
MMY and Her Magnet
Importable:
https://pastebin.com/QjBs5rTC
Description:
Choice Specs + Psychic Surge MMY hits ridiculously hard, and it will Volt Switch against Steel-types, letting Magnet Pull Pdon take care of what happens next. Normalize Gengar with Sub-Seed is very underestimated stallbreaker, and the rest 3 of party are Fur Coat Giratina to Imposterproof Pdon, Magic Bounce Mega Audino to keep Impostered Giratina from messing around, and Prankster Registeel that checks my own MMY.
Ladder performance:
Trust me normally I am way higher in ladder, I was having a bad time lately. It is your choice to believe it or not but I peaked 1790.
Last edited:
Here's two teams from the hlsampleshowcasearmy you can submit to the vault.
Contra MMY
Link: https://pastebin.com/9Mna8DFv
Desc: Smash through opposing mons using mmy's combination of contrary and spore. Mewtwo is strong enough to 2hko most unaware walls and can defeat avest users through spore. Mray is there to revenge kill weakened mons and can provide sr support. Use celes to improof mray and ttar to improof mmy.
Experience:
I couldnt find any replays :^(
Mguard Pdon
Link: https://pastebin.com/GvBpY0mJ
Desc: Break most walls using kyub's excellent offensive typing and its massive coverage. Find an opportune chance to setup with pdon to easily sweep through most teams. After a shell smash, LOR will ohko both tina and zyg, unless theyre unaware or avest. Make sure to scout for those beforehand. Use celes to improof pdon and chans to improof kyub.
Experience: hl seal of approval
Contra MMY
Link: https://pastebin.com/9Mna8DFv
Desc: Smash through opposing mons using mmy's combination of contrary and spore. Mewtwo is strong enough to 2hko most unaware walls and can defeat avest users through spore. Mray is there to revenge kill weakened mons and can provide sr support. Use celes to improof mray and ttar to improof mmy.
Experience:
I couldnt find any replays :^(
Mguard Pdon
Link: https://pastebin.com/GvBpY0mJ
Desc: Break most walls using kyub's excellent offensive typing and its massive coverage. Find an opportune chance to setup with pdon to easily sweep through most teams. After a shell smash, LOR will ohko both tina and zyg, unless theyre unaware or avest. Make sure to scout for those beforehand. Use celes to improof pdon and chans to improof kyub.
Experience: hl seal of approval
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
While I respect you as a high ladder player, I like your team (as even couple newbies in BH open tour had some actual success with them), and I have couple questions:Here's two teams from the hlsampleshowcasearmy you can submit to the vault.
Contra MMY
Link: https://pastebin.com/9Mna8DFv
Desc: Smash through opposing mons using mmy's combination of contrary and spore. Mewtwo is strong enough to 2hko most unaware walls and can defeat avest users through spore. Mray is there to revenge kill weakened mons and can provide sr support. Use celes to improof mray and ttar to improof mmy.
Experience:
I couldnt find any replays :^(
Mguard Pdon
Link: https://pastebin.com/GvBpY0mJ
Desc: Break most walls using kyub's excellent offensive typing and its massive coverage. Find an opportune chance to setup with pdon to easily sweep through most teams. After a shell smash, LOR will ohko both tina and zyg, unless theyre unaware or avest. Make sure to scout for those beforehand. Use celes to improof pdon and chans to improof kyub.
Experience: hl seal of approval
* Contray MMY
- Looks like Magnet Pull Groudon is an immense threat to your team. Once it successfully traps and eliminates Celesteela, It will discourage you from sending in Mega Ray if Imposter is present in the opposing team. It also threatens your Imposter-proofing Tyranitar. What is your way to deal with this?
- What are your plans when opposing Imposter decides to switch into your Tyranitar over and over to PP stall your team?
* Magic Guard Primal Groudon
- I see you have been using Magic Guard Pdon from before Innards Out was banned, and it seems to be a great lure for FC Giratina / Zygarde-C. Now that Innards Out is gone, do you think a different set involving some Ice moves with new abilities such as Sheer Force / Stakeout can fit in your team?
- Have you considered getting Darkinium Z for your Fur Coat Giratina to check PH Regigigas better while healing your wincon in emergency?
- Your Pdon will hate sashes after it has boosted to start sweeping. How about replacing Moonblast with Stealth Rock for your PH Audino set? I think Audino still has some problems with passivity even with Moonblast.
*Contra MMY
1. Magpull is a huge threat to the team and the team doesnt really have a good way to deal with it other than trying to play around it.
2. If chans tries to pp stall with ttar, you can stall out the sand and then switch in mmy and try to take it out through the combination of spore and judgment.
*Mguard pdon
1. Its true that the pdon is a little outdated, but its role is still preformed better with mguard than sheer force.
252 SpA Life Orb Groudon-Primal Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 281-333 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Groudon-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 234-278 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO
While Ice Beam would do more damage to zygc, I would rather take the higher power that LOR provides.
Also why would I run stakeout on a shell smasher
2. Yeah Darkinium Z is probably better for tina.
3. Pdon has bonemerang so sashes arent really a problem. The main reason why I have moonblast is to discourage opposing mons from pp stalling spectral with qd. Threatening mray isnt too bad a thing either.
1. Magpull is a huge threat to the team and the team doesnt really have a good way to deal with it other than trying to play around it.
2. If chans tries to pp stall with ttar, you can stall out the sand and then switch in mmy and try to take it out through the combination of spore and judgment.
*Mguard pdon
1. Its true that the pdon is a little outdated, but its role is still preformed better with mguard than sheer force.
252 SpA Life Orb Groudon-Primal Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 281-333 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Groudon-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 234-278 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO
While Ice Beam would do more damage to zygc, I would rather take the higher power that LOR provides.
Also why would I run stakeout on a shell smasher
2. Yeah Darkinium Z is probably better for tina.
3. Pdon has bonemerang so sashes arent really a problem. The main reason why I have moonblast is to discourage opposing mons from pp stalling spectral with qd. Threatening mray isnt too bad a thing either.
m pdon f gengarite k mega diancie
dragon of delusion
description: lure in xurkitree's usual counters with illusion mega rayquaza to allow it to break more stuff. prankster haze zyg supports the team by taking most attacks from boosters
experience: none but i have a xurkitree, that should be enough
2 zekroms
description: 2 zekroms work together to beat teams with their powerful offensive typing. however the redundancy can hinder the team as well in stacking weaknesses and getting walled by uncommon mons such as mega aggron/steelix.
experience: i was somehow able to get a winning streak which was cool
and here are some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-584976057
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-584992999
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-585690783
man i really am shameless posting the same teams everywhere. hopefully i can come up with some new stuff soon tho
dragon of delusion
description: lure in xurkitree's usual counters with illusion mega rayquaza to allow it to break more stuff. prankster haze zyg supports the team by taking most attacks from boosters
電嘨 (Xurkitree) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Leech Seed
瞹龍 (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Moongeist Beam
癒し妖精 (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Soundproof
Level: 99
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Roost
- U-turn
- Core Enforcer
- Defog
大地守り (Zygarde-Complete) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Haze
- Shore Up
- U-turn
鍛接獅 (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
- Sunsteel Strike
- Revelation Dance
soulja boi (Chansey) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Soft-Boiled
- Final Gambit
- Whirlwind
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Leech Seed
瞹龍 (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Moongeist Beam
癒し妖精 (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Soundproof
Level: 99
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Roost
- U-turn
- Core Enforcer
- Defog
大地守り (Zygarde-Complete) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Haze
- Shore Up
- U-turn
鍛接獅 (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
- Sunsteel Strike
- Revelation Dance
soulja boi (Chansey) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Soft-Boiled
- Final Gambit
- Whirlwind
experience: none but i have a xurkitree, that should be enough
2 zekroms
description: 2 zekroms work together to beat teams with their powerful offensive typing. however the redundancy can hinder the team as well in stacking weaknesses and getting walled by uncommon mons such as mega aggron/steelix.
FIRE IT UP (Zekrom) @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Docile Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Charge
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
Slowbro-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- U-turn
- Roost
- Haze
NO MORE AEGISLASH (Registeel) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heal Order
- Haze
- Stealth Rock
- Entrainment
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Fake Out
- Soft-Boiled
- Final Gambit
- Whirlwind
Audino-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Scald
- Milk Drink
- Defog
FIRE IT UP (Zekrom) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spore
- Draco Meteor
- Bolt Strike
- Shell Smash
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Docile Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Charge
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
Slowbro-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- U-turn
- Roost
- Haze
NO MORE AEGISLASH (Registeel) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heal Order
- Haze
- Stealth Rock
- Entrainment
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Fake Out
- Soft-Boiled
- Final Gambit
- Whirlwind
Audino-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Scald
- Milk Drink
- Defog
FIRE IT UP (Zekrom) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spore
- Draco Meteor
- Bolt Strike
- Shell Smash
experience: i was somehow able to get a winning streak which was cool
and here are some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-584976057
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-584992999
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-585690783
man i really am shameless posting the same teams everywhere. hopefully i can come up with some new stuff soon tho
Surge MMy / Illusion M-Ray / PH TTar
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587124900 v Duckomo Senior
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587551139 v Anna Says hi
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-588894208
(also i'm not sure if i'm still allowed to submit to sample teams)
The team is premised around illusion M-Ray opening up holes for PH-Ttar & MMy. TTar hates fur coat mons, the most common of which are Giratina / Zygod and MMy hates regen-vest mons - Ray takes care of both of these pretty well.
Defensively:
Regenvest Solgaleo offers a general sponge for the meta and checks MMy. Revelation dance allows the team some leeway against normalize M-ggar (but it's still somewhat of an issue). Prank aud is a panic button against most things and knock is useful to bluff meme purify sets or magic bounce. Giratina is standard fur coat with dark-z parting shot to re-heal threats. M-Ray can be checked by TTar and TTar can check itself as long as you don't go to above +1 with imposter still around.
Problems the team faces:
The team struggles against FF steels (I've added earth plate judgment to mitigate on MMy - but it's still a problem) and contrary / smash spammers. It can also struggle to break through defensive mons if you lose M-Ray too early on in the game. The team can handle normalize M-ggar to some extent, however it still poses problems. PH mons can get out of hand as well and require a bit of creative playing with Aud / Gira to handle as this team lacks core enforcer.
There's probably some other major problems i'm missing as well, but overall the team has done well for me. Also I should probably note that i've been using this team with 2 crystals, which is probably not the best way to go per se, but it works for me; if you don't want to use two crystals you can change dragonium-z on Ray to expert belt.
Defensively:
Regenvest Solgaleo offers a general sponge for the meta and checks MMy. Revelation dance allows the team some leeway against normalize M-ggar (but it's still somewhat of an issue). Prank aud is a panic button against most things and knock is useful to bluff meme purify sets or magic bounce. Giratina is standard fur coat with dark-z parting shot to re-heal threats. M-Ray can be checked by TTar and TTar can check itself as long as you don't go to above +1 with imposter still around.
Problems the team faces:
The team struggles against FF steels (I've added earth plate judgment to mitigate on MMy - but it's still a problem) and contrary / smash spammers. It can also struggle to break through defensive mons if you lose M-Ray too early on in the game. The team can handle normalize M-ggar to some extent, however it still poses problems. PH mons can get out of hand as well and require a bit of creative playing with Aud / Gira to handle as this team lacks core enforcer.
There's probably some other major problems i'm missing as well, but overall the team has done well for me. Also I should probably note that i've been using this team with 2 crystals, which is probably not the best way to go per se, but it works for me; if you don't want to use two crystals you can change dragonium-z on Ray to expert belt.
Machiavelli (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Tail Glow / Shell smash
Rise above (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Dragonium Z / Expert Belt
Ability: Illusion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Moongeist Beam
Bow to the king (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shift Gear
Starburst (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Revelation Dance
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
Cleopatra (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Destiny Bond
- Haze
- Knock Off
- Roost
Spectre (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Tail
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Tail Glow / Shell smash
Rise above (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Dragonium Z / Expert Belt
Ability: Illusion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Moongeist Beam
Bow to the king (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shift Gear
Starburst (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Revelation Dance
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
Cleopatra (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Destiny Bond
- Haze
- Knock Off
- Roost
Spectre (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Tail
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587124900 v Duckomo Senior
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587551139 v Anna Says hi
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-588894208
(also i'm not sure if i'm still allowed to submit to sample teams)
Last edited:
- VR has been updated for June
- I have also graciously added a new Changelog which will keep track of official changes made by BHC Staff.
- I will complete adding sample teams to the Official Vault hopefully by the end of this week.
here's some sample speed tiers for the new vr additions
265 / Xurkitree / 252 / 31 / +0
335 / Nihilego / 252+ / 31 / +0
305 / Nihilego / 252 / 31 / +0
350 / Latias-Mega / 252+ / 31 / +0 // is this a set?
319 / Latias-Mega / 252 / 31 / +0
202 / Latias-Mega / 0- / 0 / +0
189 / Nihilego / 0- / 0 / +0
157 / Cresselia, Tapu Fini / 0- / 0 / +0
265 / Xurkitree / 252 / 31 / +0
335 / Nihilego / 252+ / 31 / +0
305 / Nihilego / 252 / 31 / +0
350 / Latias-Mega / 252+ / 31 / +0 // is this a set?
319 / Latias-Mega / 252 / 31 / +0
202 / Latias-Mega / 0- / 0 / +0
189 / Nihilego / 0- / 0 / +0
157 / Cresselia, Tapu Fini / 0- / 0 / +0
I also want to share one of my teams as a sample team :)
Magnet Pull Groudon + Diancie-Mega Balance
Experience: I have played a lot with this team on the ladder, peaking at about 1750 elo with it (can't remember exactly, as I'm not saving all my peaks with screenshots xD).
Magnet Pull Groudon + Diancie-Mega Balance
RMT with detailed descriptions: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bh-diancie-magnet-pull-pdon-balance.3602863/
Chain Chomp (Gyarados-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Power Trip
- Recover
- Baton Pass
Bowser (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Switcheroo
Princess Peach (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash
Power Star (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Core Enforcer
Bob-omb Buddy (Blissey) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
Luigi's Nightmare (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Power Trip
- Recover
- Baton Pass
Bowser (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Switcheroo
Princess Peach (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash
Power Star (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Core Enforcer
Bob-omb Buddy (Blissey) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
Luigi's Nightmare (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
Experience: I have played a lot with this team on the ladder, peaking at about 1750 elo with it (can't remember exactly, as I'm not saving all my peaks with screenshots xD).
Last edited:
I think this mini team posting is off topic
a full team is the end product but not a resource.
Team Cores would be just ok, they are leading to prediction paths,
my new favorite is Gengar->Gengarnite (Illusion) + M-Gyrados.
On my teams 5 pokes pair extremly well but the 6th slot allows some variance.
Based on my ladder experiences the 6th slot is very important,
because players counterbuild so quickly.
I have build a 2-3 M-Gengar team and laddered to 1720 in 3 days, but when the counters became
so popular and i lost 7 matches straight.
At that time i take a break cuz i dont need perma adaption to the meta.
(not the game, i know the game)
So constant changing tiers is pointless aswell, i judge the pokes on their overall potential
and not how they are performing in a certain meta.
On the Tier list itself M-Beedrill is missing; it caused me atleast 2 loses in 1650+ play.
Sets like this;
M-Beedrill @ Life Orb
@ No Guard
Megahorn
Gunk Shot
Grasswhistle
Filter
Sleeps Through Subs, hits Grass types, hits through googles, Bypass Evasion Boosts
M-Beedrill @ Choice Band
@ Stakeout / Adaptability
Megahorn
Gunkshot
V-Create
U-Turn
Does huge damage if it gets a good matchup / prediction, Reason for Tina and Zygarde being top tier
a full team is the end product but not a resource.
Team Cores would be just ok, they are leading to prediction paths,
my new favorite is Gengar->Gengarnite (Illusion) + M-Gyrados.
On my teams 5 pokes pair extremly well but the 6th slot allows some variance.
Based on my ladder experiences the 6th slot is very important,
because players counterbuild so quickly.
I have build a 2-3 M-Gengar team and laddered to 1720 in 3 days, but when the counters became
so popular and i lost 7 matches straight.
At that time i take a break cuz i dont need perma adaption to the meta.
(not the game, i know the game)
So constant changing tiers is pointless aswell, i judge the pokes on their overall potential
and not how they are performing in a certain meta.
On the Tier list itself M-Beedrill is missing; it caused me atleast 2 loses in 1650+ play.
Sets like this;
M-Beedrill @ Life Orb
@ No Guard
Megahorn
Gunk Shot
Grasswhistle
Filter
Sleeps Through Subs, hits Grass types, hits through googles, Bypass Evasion Boosts
M-Beedrill @ Choice Band
@ Stakeout / Adaptability
Megahorn
Gunkshot
V-Create
U-Turn
Does huge damage if it gets a good matchup / prediction, Reason for Tina and Zygarde being top tier
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Does Sap Sipper block Grasswhistle like Lightening Rod blocks Thunderwave? Maybe Sing.
Last edited by a moderator:
The sample teams have been updated in the main BH Thread after I looked at all of them and picked the ones I felt were interesting and also good for current ladder. Congratulations to whoever posted, however
I have done it for those who didn't do it properly this time in case of confusion, and even accepted a couple teams after deadline but please keep this in mind for next time. I won't read the teams that don't follow the format I laid out.
PLEASE FOLLOW THE FORMAT THAT I LIST INCLUDING HOSTING THE TEAM PIC AND TEAM DUMP ONLINE.
I have done it for those who didn't do it properly this time in case of confusion, and even accepted a couple teams after deadline but please keep this in mind for next time. I won't read the teams that don't follow the format I laid out.
Last edited:
Mewtwo Fast Scorer
This straightforward hyperoffense team provides very fast laddering reliably up to the 1650s, and is useful for farming alts for team testing.
This straightforward hyperoffense team provides very fast laddering reliably up to the 1650s, and is useful for farming alts for team testing.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Lovely Kiss
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Psystrike
- Psycho Boost
- Light of Ruin
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Energy
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Moonblast
- Moongeist Beam
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Sticky Web
- Spectral Thief
- Haze
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Lovely Kiss
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Psystrike
- Psycho Boost
- Light of Ruin
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Energy
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Moonblast
- Moongeist Beam
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Sticky Web
- Spectral Thief
- Haze
Setup terrain/disrupt your opponents lead with your lead, and then try to sweep at every given opportunity.
Grave threatened by dark types as you probably already expect, which I dont think is a problem this team should make serious attempt at fixing. The shell smash set can be run on mewtwo x with close combat/sunsteel strike as coverage if you think that would help.
Grave threatened by dark types as you probably already expect, which I dont think is a problem this team should make serious attempt at fixing. The shell smash set can be run on mewtwo x with close combat/sunsteel strike as coverage if you think that would help.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-562705696
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-570821061
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-582901191
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-555777951
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-578662395
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-563213194
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-570821061
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-582901191
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-555777951
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-578662395
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-563213194
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
1. VR roles are messed up
· MMY is already a Spectral Thief bait so Simple sounds like a terrible option.
· Pixilate < Refrigerate on Primal Groudon because you can’t OHKO non-AV Zygarde-C variants without Ice moves.
· Primal Groudon is also missing Adaptability which lets it OHKO other Pdon without boost or band
· Le Corrupt leader posted Tinted Lens Mray set in Creative and Underrated sets thread and I personally believe this is viable due to prevalent AV Solg.
· Remove Magic Bounce from both Giratina and Zygarde-C, people spam Core Enforcer into their faces and they can’t manage to keep those abilities.
· Primal Kyogre’s Adaptability is worthy of mention due to:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 384-452 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 326-384 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is not even Modest.
Remember how Lance lost his Audino to Jasprose’s Pogre in BH open?
· Please remove Simple from MMX thanks
· Hopefully Gengar will be out of the list soon
· Just because Spectral Thief will be Normal-type doesn’t mean it is worth to give Regigigas crap ability of Normalize
· Silver_Lucario24 mentioned Tough Claws + Band set and it is one of the few physical attackers who can 2HKO FC Giratina. This is not common. I would add Tough Claws on Kyurem-B.
· Get rid of Unaware on Xerneas because it doesn’t have Moongeist Beam immunity like Audino does.
· Why Water Absorb on Ttar when Water Bubble is banned?
· Can we please get Shedinja out of here
· > Kangaskhan in Gen 7, I would say C for Crappy gimmick
· Add Tinted Lens on Kartana because Registeel happens
· My boy Kyurem-W doesn’t deserve Sheer Force.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 385-455 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is pathetic. Use Refrigerate. It frees a slot for choice item. It does more damage.
· Please no Simple on Lunala, it is x4 weak to Spectral Thief and every competitive players will use it on our Nebby.
· Mega Heracross in D or unranked IMO because Giratina or Zygarde-C happens every time Heracross even switches in and Psychic Surge is very prevalent.
· Who even told you to add Eon Dragon when Soul Dew now became a junk
· Why is Palkia in C rank when Reshiram also has Dragon-type and check Steel-types in addition.
· > Alolan Muk
· >>>>> Ash Greninja
· >>>>>>>>> Buzzwole
· Pheromosa lost more than half of its ability to potentially OHKO stuff after full EV meta so remove from list IMO
· >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pikachu, please don’t keep it on the list. Lucky Punch Imposter does better job with better bulk and the capability to bypass positive stat changes with crits which is better than Light Ball boost to almost every extent. @ Quantum Tesseract oops I slipped
· Again, why is Reshiram in D rank when Palkia is in C? Both of them are garbage nowadays but they are switched around I think.
2. Role Compendium
· Normalize Regigigas has to go
· Sheer Force Pdon is better than Sheer Force Kyu-W ngl
· MMX and MMY should have Stakeout because no one else has sophisticated mixed offense stats and average bulk
· Gyarados is much better doing something other than Tough Claws, namely PH / Unaware / Herb Smash
· Add Primal Groudon to Contrary (because I lost to that in BH open) because Fleur Cannon and Draco Meteor can punish its usual checks
· Please get rid of Zygarde-C from Poison Heal list thanks
· Simply get rid of MMY from Simple
· Why is Marshadow in Triage when MMX is better in every way, STAB Spectral Thief doesn’t give it a niche BC it has to rely on speed tie against Imposters
· Oml Unburden Greninja
· Primal Groudon in Unburden list please and Mega Metagross
· All Dragons out of Magic Bounce please
· Why is Luigia a good Regenvest when it has Stealth Rock weakness AND weakness to Moongeist Beam
· Chansey is the one and only Imposter user
· Venusaur should not be Prankster because most Pranksters end up switching against -ate users or MMY for fast recovery
· > Alolan Muk when we have Mega Gyarados
· >> Slowbro as Unaware when it is weak to Power Trip and Moongeist Beam
· >>> Xerneas as Unaware when it is not immune to Moongeist Beam as Audino is and is weak to Sunsteel Strike
· I won’t say Registeel or Aegislash is Pogre check because they can’t stop boosted Ogre without being Prankster variants and leaving themselves passive
· Why is there “Zygod Checks” section when Zygarde-C has next to no offensive presence
· Lunala is imposterproofed but it will most likely die before it actually sets up
· Dry Skin Flame Plate Judgment is such a garbage.
· PH Zygarde-C is awful.
3. Don’t let this thread die
· MMY is already a Spectral Thief bait so Simple sounds like a terrible option.
· Pixilate < Refrigerate on Primal Groudon because you can’t OHKO non-AV Zygarde-C variants without Ice moves.
· Primal Groudon is also missing Adaptability which lets it OHKO other Pdon without boost or band
· Le Corrupt leader posted Tinted Lens Mray set in Creative and Underrated sets thread and I personally believe this is viable due to prevalent AV Solg.
· Remove Magic Bounce from both Giratina and Zygarde-C, people spam Core Enforcer into their faces and they can’t manage to keep those abilities.
· Primal Kyogre’s Adaptability is worthy of mention due to:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 384-452 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 326-384 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is not even Modest.
Remember how Lance lost his Audino to Jasprose’s Pogre in BH open?
· Please remove Simple from MMX thanks
· Hopefully Gengar will be out of the list soon
· Just because Spectral Thief will be Normal-type doesn’t mean it is worth to give Regigigas crap ability of Normalize
· Silver_Lucario24 mentioned Tough Claws + Band set and it is one of the few physical attackers who can 2HKO FC Giratina. This is not common. I would add Tough Claws on Kyurem-B.
· Get rid of Unaware on Xerneas because it doesn’t have Moongeist Beam immunity like Audino does.
· Why Water Absorb on Ttar when Water Bubble is banned?
· Can we please get Shedinja out of here
· > Kangaskhan in Gen 7, I would say C for Crappy gimmick
· Add Tinted Lens on Kartana because Registeel happens
· My boy Kyurem-W doesn’t deserve Sheer Force.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 385-455 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is pathetic. Use Refrigerate. It frees a slot for choice item. It does more damage.
· Please no Simple on Lunala, it is x4 weak to Spectral Thief and every competitive players will use it on our Nebby.
· Mega Heracross in D or unranked IMO because Giratina or Zygarde-C happens every time Heracross even switches in and Psychic Surge is very prevalent.
· Who even told you to add Eon Dragon when Soul Dew now became a junk
· Why is Palkia in C rank when Reshiram also has Dragon-type and check Steel-types in addition.
· > Alolan Muk
· >>>>> Ash Greninja
· >>>>>>>>> Buzzwole
· Pheromosa lost more than half of its ability to potentially OHKO stuff after full EV meta so remove from list IMO
· >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pikachu, please don’t keep it on the list. Lucky Punch Imposter does better job with better bulk and the capability to bypass positive stat changes with crits which is better than Light Ball boost to almost every extent. @ Quantum Tesseract oops I slipped
· Again, why is Reshiram in D rank when Palkia is in C? Both of them are garbage nowadays but they are switched around I think.
2. Role Compendium
· Normalize Regigigas has to go
· Sheer Force Pdon is better than Sheer Force Kyu-W ngl
· MMX and MMY should have Stakeout because no one else has sophisticated mixed offense stats and average bulk
· Gyarados is much better doing something other than Tough Claws, namely PH / Unaware / Herb Smash
· Add Primal Groudon to Contrary (because I lost to that in BH open) because Fleur Cannon and Draco Meteor can punish its usual checks
· Please get rid of Zygarde-C from Poison Heal list thanks
· Simply get rid of MMY from Simple
· Why is Marshadow in Triage when MMX is better in every way, STAB Spectral Thief doesn’t give it a niche BC it has to rely on speed tie against Imposters
· Oml Unburden Greninja
· Primal Groudon in Unburden list please and Mega Metagross
· All Dragons out of Magic Bounce please
· Why is Luigia a good Regenvest when it has Stealth Rock weakness AND weakness to Moongeist Beam
· Chansey is the one and only Imposter user
· Venusaur should not be Prankster because most Pranksters end up switching against -ate users or MMY for fast recovery
· > Alolan Muk when we have Mega Gyarados
· >> Slowbro as Unaware when it is weak to Power Trip and Moongeist Beam
· >>> Xerneas as Unaware when it is not immune to Moongeist Beam as Audino is and is weak to Sunsteel Strike
· I won’t say Registeel or Aegislash is Pogre check because they can’t stop boosted Ogre without being Prankster variants and leaving themselves passive
· Why is there “Zygod Checks” section when Zygarde-C has next to no offensive presence
· Lunala is imposterproofed but it will most likely die before it actually sets up
· Dry Skin Flame Plate Judgment is such a garbage.
· PH Zygarde-C is awful.
3. Don’t let this thread die
Last edited:
Pixilate is used so Imposters can only hit you with resisted moves.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
You hit them with Earth Plate Judgment anyway. But I will take that back, Pixilate is viable. I just wanted to say Refrigerate is more viable.
Also OHKOing and not OHKOing non-AV Zygarde-C variants is very important because of Metal Burst that sometimes happen. Also you hit more relevant threats supereffectively with Refrigerate set.
one by one
252+ Atk Adaptability Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 362-428 (87 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Greninja-Ash Power Trip (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Greninja-Ash: 183-216 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
with prior damage (likely it will eat a u-turn due to its inability to threaten anything whatsoever) imprison sets actually get 2hko'd by struggle (~40% assuming herb) and lose the 1v1. gj
252+ SpA Choice Specs Galvanize Xurkitree Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 178-210 (49 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
:^(
ngl tho venu is a pretty cool mon. it has the typing and spore immunity to counter every ph user, and it checks mega diancie, but unlike ferro it can evade magnet pull. very niche however
yeah honestly i would say that psychic surge and contrary sound like better boosters. fast +6 tail glow sounds ok tho. idk i wanna see this thing in action.
the big difference between pixilate and refrigerate is that pixilate actually outdamages imposter. they have roughly 3x your bulk. ground judgment is 100*1.2*1.5*2=360, pixilate boomburst is 140*1.2/2=84, refrigerate boomburst is twice that at 168. this means that refrigerate pdon needs to run recovery or forgo boomburst to beat imposter 1v1. also most ate pdons run quiver dance from my experience allowing them to ko non unaware/av zyg
scarf adaptability sounds like a decent set i'd say, you kill mmy with p blades after rocks
252+ Atk Adaptability Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 362-428 (87 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
agree
maybe keep bouncer zyg. bouncer giratina is not worth using imo because 50/50s with normalize is never fun
man why use that when primordial sea exists ?_?
:thinking:
yeah not really sold on this set like at all
spell my name right you scrub
idk if either should remain actually. sunsteel weakness absolutely sucks on unaware and too many mons run sunsteel. thinkin it might pair well with fur coat giratina tho
after the last clc people discovered the hidden power of ash gren. fast enough to underspeed mmy, bulky enough to die to banded pdon thousand arrows, powerful enough to 2hko mega ray with ice beam. because of this water absorb ttar is a must on every good team to counter this centralizing force
shed is actually pretty good, i think you're underrating it. magic bounce fairies with a sunsteel switchin just fix all its problems. here's a shed team if you want https://pastebin.com/wLASj1Yw
i don't think you know what kanga does, it runs nature's madness/nightshade/espeed/recovery this gen which dismantles lots of defensive teams. if gengarite is banned kanga will get much better as something to fill its place.
i don't think this deserves a mention over steelworker, like you can just run sunsteel/steel smacker/liquidation/horn leech and hit everything. with lens you fail to break zyg/gira
agreed. kyuw has no real switchins with fridge specs anyway (except solga but blue flare is a 2hko). if it ain't broken don't fix it
why does this exist
yeah triage hera isn't good. like if you want bug priority just use first impression on a better mon lol. the mon has potential tho
haven't used or seen this so idk what it does
palkia actually switches in on pdon somewhat consistently. like it takes a lot (252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Palkia: 244-288 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) but it can run like fur coat, it doesn't straight up die to karrows, and it has that useful double water resistance. tbh i wouldn't compare the two
see below
"can't spell trash without ash" -hl
pretty sure you used a flash fire set earlier which is probably the set that gave it a rank. why isn't this worth ranking in your opinion?
mosa is kinda cool. bug fighting is really interesting especially when you outspeed mmy. this mon kinda has the power to choose its counters, like it can run steam eruption for pdon, sunsteel for fairies/shed, ice beam for ray/other dragons, close combat/focus miss for steels, knock off/moongeist for gengar, dragon ascent minimum defense to ko imposter. dazzling/sheer force/stakeout are all viable options on it. you never know what this mon is gonna do.
we discussed this earlier, what do you disagree with in the arguments given?
i need to start using these. why do you think resh is overlooked?
what is the set? blue flare/earth power/moonblast or something? why is it worth using over mmy?
agree
idk what this does so some clarification would be helpful
agree. rocky helmet can be really obnoxious too because it's kinda imposter-proof
yeah idk. zyg is kinda slow but not that slow so some core enforcers underspeed it. still a very annoying mon
the mon, the myth, the legend. people just see "physical triage user" and autopilot into giratina...
252+ Atk Choice Band Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
you don't know the power of unburden gren.
+2 252+ Atk Greninja-Ash Power Trip (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Greninja-Ash: 183-216 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
with prior damage (likely it will eat a u-turn due to its inability to threaten anything whatsoever) imprison sets actually get 2hko'd by struggle (~40% assuming herb) and lose the 1v1. gj
agree on pdon, not sure how metagross is tho
haven't used
it switches in on xurkitree :^)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Galvanize Xurkitree Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 178-210 (49 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
:^(
ngl tho venu is a pretty cool mon. it has the typing and spore immunity to counter every ph user, and it checks mega diancie, but unlike ferro it can evade magnet pull. very niche however
don't dis my man sludgemon. you know how gyara has those annoying weaknesses to pivot moves? none of that. muk's niche is being the best mmy check in the game with regen vest ez
ok can i take a second to rant about how amazing mega slowbro would be if it didn't have that stupid psychic typing??? like it would just shrug off every physical hit ever and losing the moongeist weakness would be awesome. i agree with what you said, prankster bro is much better for power trip stuff
not necessarily, regen regi can core enforce ogre, aegi is just awful in general tho tbh lol
a check is something that can win the 1v1. a list of stuff that can break zyg or just wall it like audino
i can't be the only person who doesn't use spectral thief on everything and i hate lunala
Last edited:
doesn't pogre have an analysis now?