Gen 4 Advice on my OU team (no legendaries/mythical)

[djta94]

As the title says, I refuse to use legendaries/mythical on my team (f*ck Jirachi, in particular). I am trying a classical sandstorm hazard team, and after multiple iterations this is the team I came up with:

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
Standard lead. Sets up sandstorm from turn 1 and can set up stealth rock. Scarf allows to paralyze faster threats and setup. Choice pursuit is also useful to take down Starmie/Gengar/Latias before retaliation. This lead can also sponge Latias' trick if predicted properly. Other than that, Choice forces Tyranitar into a support role.

Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Standard physical defense Skarmory set. Shed shell is a nice surprise against Magnezone.

Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Encore
- Recover
- Toxic
Checks Gyarados, Swampert, and other water threats. Encore shuts down setup sweepers, specially DD Gyarados.

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off
Special tank and annoyance of the highest caliber. Removes items, spams paralysis, and it has decent damage against anything except ghost types or Blissey. Can effectively check some Jirachi sets. It is also a very good Heatran check, although it's usually a target of explosion.

Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
Fighting-type counter plus toxic spikes setter/cleaner. I have found Nidoqueen to be very effective against Machamp and Infernape. Nidoqueen also threatens Breloom, but spore and leech seed are still a problem (I don't have a way to properly deal with that tbh). Poison point sometimes lands a free poison on non-metal physical threats. Ice beam is also useful in taking down Flygon and Dragonite.

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon/Explosion
Steel trapper. Useful to deal with Scizor and Lucario if it can switch in. It can also take down some Jirachi sets (again, f*ck Jirachi). Bronzong's earthquake is a problem though. Magnezone can also take down Skarmory after Clefable's knock off or if it has leftovers. The last move is for occasional non-steel opponents. Flash cannon is safer but explosion can secure a kill.

I would like to get my team rated, and if possible also advice on how I can improve it. As I mentioned at the start, my only restriction is no legendaries/mythical. Thanks in advance!

 

[Jeong]

Hi,
It is an interesting team despite not having support from any legendary like Latias, which would give the team more strength or Jirachi wish tect or FPunch, but I understand that you want to do without them.

If you are worried about EQ zong, you can try Magnet Rise in zone. Although it is true that you lose response vs. Lucario, for example. As another option, I don't know if it's crazy to use Magneton Scarf since it's faster and can come in handy.

Seeing that you have SR in ttar, Spikes in Skarm and TSpikes in Nidoqueen, I would tell you to put a spinblock like Rotom, but that depends on you.

I don't know if DD Gyara or nite gives you problems, because there is no list of possible team threats, but you can consider Milotic > Quagsire. In this sense, it seems more reliable to me. You have the answer to both with HP Electric or IBeam.

TWave in Scarf ttar I don't know if it is very effective because I have never tried it like this, although I admit that I like that triple TWave with fable + zone.

 

[AC7]

Hi there, very interesting premise of having no legendaries or mythicals.
I think the suggestions above are very feasible, but I wanted to give my two cents on this team.

First I'll give suggestion with the current 6 Pokémon:

I think a more standard scarftar would be good here, I don't think you'll have much need for twave especially on a toxic spikes team with two other twave users. I think superpower is very important coverage, because on slower paced teams like this scarftar is your fastest and most offensively threatening Pokémon.
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Stealth Rock


I think a useful move to have on Clefable here would be wish. Helps to keep scarftar healthy since its not healing at all, and also lets Nidoqueen, Quagsire, and Skarmory come in easier on whatever tries to force Clefable out( Skarm won't immediately have to roost and lose momentum, Nidoqueen likes the extra health as it has no instant recovery, Quagsire can immediately encore or toxic something without worrying about health). I like knock over twave personally, but you can play around with the moves however you prefer it. Another thing I was considering is Aromatherapy /Heal Bell to keep your team resilient against status like Jirachi Body Slam against Quagsire and Nidoqueen, but I'm not sure how to fit it here.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off / Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Wish


I definitely think that this should be Magnet Rise, as even scarf with twave can get unlucky or struggle do deal with Jirachi at all sometimes. I don't think Lucario and Scizor are much of a problem for this team because you have PhysDef Skarmory, Nidoqueen, and Quagsire. 239 speed can still trap many slower Scizor, but I wouldn't put all your hopes on Magnezone eliminating it.
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave

I think the other 3 sets are pretty good.
Here is the paste with the above changes: https://pokepast.es/9d1260e620d09a50

Possible issues:


Breloom is always a big issue, and its important for this kind of defensive team to plan for it. I think Skarmory can do a good job checking it if Spore is off the table, which leaves the big issue of what to sleep sac. If Magnezone has already trapped something then its an obvious candidate, but be wary of switching into a fighting move and then still have this issue of spore. I think Nidoqueen is a decent thing to let go to sleep, but you lose your ability to deal with Breloom 1v1, and your the putting a lot of responisbility on Skarmory checking Breloom + other possible physical threats. Its also hard to let Quagsire go to sleep because it can just get smokes by seed bomb on the switch.

Special attackers
I think one issue with having Clefable be your one stop special check is that if the aforementioned Heatran explosion catches it, you're suddenly not looking excellent at switching into a lot. Tyranitar is good to have here because you can bring it in on something like Latias draco meteor. The problem I see with this is that your Tyranitar can easily be worn down coming in on hazard + taking the big hit, and then being out of commission for the rest of the game. Although, this may not be as large of an issue as I think it is.

Toxic Spikes Usefulness
A lot of team in recent DPP are very resistant to toxic spikes. They either use a lot of Pokémon that are not affected( Tyranitar is the only Pokémon B1 or higher on the viability rankings that is affected) and the teams that are affected heavily will likely use a spinner to removed them so that their threats can operate. There's nothing wrong with having Toxic Spikes on top of Rocks and Spikes if you like it, but I try not to be too reliant on the Toxic Spikes. On this note, scarftar is good to eliminate Starmie, but I think a spinblocker would also be a good addition.

Now, I have a suggestion if you are open to changing the 6 Pokémon:

Same as above but Stone Edge over Stealth Rock

Same as your original set

Same as above

Same as your original

over
I think Bronzong makes for a good addition, will easily get up rocks, can switch into draco meteors to allow Tyranitar to be a more offensive presence if needed. Helps on the special defense side if Clefable goes down. Toxic to help spread the passive damage that tspikes were doing, and HP Ice for Flygon or as an Emergency DDNite check.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

over
Spin blocks to keep hazards up, good spore sac if needed as I'm using RestTalk anyway. Wisp for additional passive damage. Can use Shadow Ball over TBolt if you want. Also helps against Body Slam Jirachi as it is immune and can wisp it. Twave variants can be checked by Quagsire.
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt

https://pokepast.es/b2c352c4eb3cfe6b

Threats:


Breloom is still an issue, but I think Rotom and Bronzong make better sleep sacs if need be, and a Rotom that is not asleep can deal with it with shadow ball.


I think this is a larger problem now that Nidoqueen is gone, however I think with the passive damage, and if you manage to get a Wisp/ Toxic/ Twave on it, it will be manageable. Rotom can come in on dynamic punch but be wary of them clicking payback on the switch.

and
I think the mixed sets can do a lot of damage to this team, I think Quagsire if probably your best initial switch. I would be wary of losing it, and then being worse off against the setup sweepers it is supposed to check. But I think you have enough Physical and Special bulk to not be helpless if you have to have Quagsire check a mixed attacker instead.

Sorry for the long read
TLDR
Your 6 : https://pokepast.es/9d1260e620d09a50
My version : https://pokepast.es/b2c352c4eb3cfe6b

Thanks for hearing out my suggestions, and if you have any comments or ideas please feel free to respond to this.
If anyone else has thoughts on this I'd be happy to here those too, I'd like to improve my building as well.